What did you think of Obama's speech?

[M5amhan]

Women have LONG since been paid equally, for EQUAL work. Anyone who says otherwise, TODAY in 2014, is just stirring the pot, and trying to cause uproar.

Anyone who is pushing for minimum wage hikes, are truly CLUELESS what kind of ripple effect that has on an economy. Many foolishly think it "helps" those working "poor" folks. No, it doesn't. Those day dreamers forget, that it ripples forth in the economy and rasies inflation. Not to mention, it DRIVES DOWN, the buying power of those already making more than minimum wage, causing the disappearance of the middle class, and growing the working poor class.

This is why some people should be barred from voting. Day dreams and wishes make piss poor policy and law.

raise minimum wage to $15 an hour and everyone who isnt worth $15 an hour doesnt work

 

[vaperature]

What's his excuse for the 2 years he had a Democratic controlled house and senate????

Why does he need an excuse? Not sure what you're saying.

 

[vaperature]

raise minimum wage to $15 an hour and everyone who isnt worth $15 an hour doesnt work

The minimum wage hasn't been raised in six years. So does anyone really believe prices haven't gone up in the last six years?

 

[joey55]

Why does he need an excuse? Not sure what you're saying.

What I'm saying is he likes to blame the Repubs for all that is bad but he had total control for 2 years. He doesn't want cooperation he wants his way or the highway, over 300 bills were generated in congress the past 3 years and the Dem controlled senate refused to vote on them at his request, is that cooperation?

 

[UncleRJ]

I would rather watch cartoons than Pebo shooting off his mouth.

 

[vaperature]

What I'm saying is he likes to blame the Repubs for all that is bad but he had total control for 2 years. He doesn't want cooperation he wants his way or the highway, over 300 bills were generated in congress the past 3 years and the Dem controlled senate refused to vote on them at his request, is that cooperation?

Dude, nobody in Washington is cooperating. I'm not sticking up for either side, but you can't with a straight face tell me the Democrats are not cooperating while the Republicans are. I mean, give me a break, the Republicans have made it their mission to block everything and anything this president does. If you want to fix the problem flush this entire system down the toilet because the dems and repubs are just two sides of the came worthless coin.

 

[joey55]

Dude, nobody in Washington is cooperating. I'm not sticking up for either side, but you can't with a straight face tell me the Democrats are not cooperating while the Republicans are. I mean, give me a break, the Republicans have made it their mission to block everything and anything this president does. If you want to fix the problem flush this entire system down the toilet because the dems and repubs are just two sides of the came worthless coin.

Amen Brother!!!!

 

[Midniteoyl]

Exactly, why isn't it mutually agreeable that women should have equal pay, or that the minimum wage should be raised? I noticed he stood and applauded for going around the world killing "terrorists".

Simply raising the minimum wage doesnt do a damn thing, except increase inflation, keeping the poor where they are at and making the rest of us poorer in the process.

 

[freemind]

raise minimum wage to $15 an hour and everyone who isnt worth $15 an hour doesnt work

Another fairy tale dream.
It just doesn't work that way.
1 Menial jobs will NEVER pay 15 bucks an hour. Fast food is menial work, sorry, along with MANY other jobs.
2 Then in turn you put MORE people on the welfare dole. 50% are on it now, and THAT is unsustainable (just look at our borrowing problems). So adding more to the dole, collapses an economy like ours.

 

[vaperature]

Simply raising the minimum wage doesnt do a damn thing, except increase inflation, keeping the poor where they are at and making the rest of us poorer in the process.

Well that's your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. Ask the average person who is working for minimum wage whether or not a raise would make them poorer, however, and I think you'd get a different opinion

 

[Midniteoyl]

I agree with that whole heartedly but I'd still prefer two dollars than one dollar in my pocket.

Even if that $2 buys the same as the $1 did before the wage hike, which in turn caused the price hike? Not to mention that now that you have doubled your pay, you are also raising your taxes which means that in real effect, you now have the purchasing effect of $0.80, not $2 or even the $1 you had last year... Inflation mixed with moving to a higher tax bracket is a bitch

 

[Midniteoyl]

Well that's your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. Ask the average person who is working for minimum wage whether or not a raise would make them poorer, however, and I think you'd get a different opinion

See reply above.. people think very short-sightedly..

 

[freemind]

Think of Germany, and printing money....

Well LOOKY I got paid a wheel borrow FULL of money today (literally) but ALAS, it's only enough for a loaf of bread......

More money does NOT mean more buying power. It fades extremely quickly.

 

[M5amhan]

Another fairy tale dream.
It just doesn't work that way.
1 Menial jobs will NEVER pay 15 bucks an hour. Fast food is menial work, sorry, along with MANY other jobs.
2 Then in turn you put MORE people on the welfare dole. 50% are on it now, and THAT is unsustainable (just look at our borrowing problems). So adding more to the dole, collapses an economy like ours.

that was my point lol at $15 an hour everyone who isnt worth that gets cut, and the fast food workers remaining are now competing with robots, and robots will win at that price

 

[vaperature]

See reply above.. people think very short-sightedly..

Yeah, when you need to put food on your table NOW for your kids you tend to think about today not the possibility that your raise may somehow destroy the entire economy over time.

 

[Midniteoyl]

I remember just a few short years ago when 'Obama' was trying to stem the tide of the recession and gave everyone $300.. He wasnt the first to do it, btw, I know... But, when asked where it came from, people almost always said 'Obama! He's rich you know!?'

Another time I was talking to same people in a store about the economy and the recession, and the cashier, a very well dressed and seemingly educated person, blurted out "I just dont see wy they dont print more money?! Just print more and everyone will have lots of money and we could buy anything we wanted!".. another

Of course, when asked 'Would you want more money?' people are gonna say 'Yes'. But they are only thinking about them having more in a world where the price of goods and service remain the same. They are not thinking about the fact that if everyone received more, that the prices will go up and that extra is now worthless, keeping them where they are now.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Think of Germany, and printing money....

Well LOOKY I got paid a wheel borrow FULL of money today (literally) but ALAS, it's only enough for a loaf of bread......

More money does NOT mean more buying power. It fades extremely quickly.

Exactly!

 

[vaperature]

I remember just a few short years ago when 'Obama' was trying to stem the tide of the recession and gave everyone $300.. He wasnt the first to do it, btw, I know... But, when asked where it came from, people almost always said 'Obama! He's rich you know!?'

Another time I was talking to same people in a store about the economy and the recession, and the cashier, a very well dressed and seemingly educated person, blurted out "I just dont see wy they dont print more money?! Just print more and everyone will have lots of money and we could buy anything we wanted!".. another

Of course, when asked 'Would you want more money?' people are gonna say 'Yes'. But they are only thinking about them having more in a world where the price of goods and service remain the same. They are not thinking about the fact that if everyone received more, that the prices will go up and that extra is now worthless, keeping them where they are now.

The only one I remember giving $300 to everyone was Bush with his tax break, and there went the surplus that Clinton left, poof, gone in a flash.

 

[freemind]

that was my point lol at $15 an hour everyone who isnt worth that gets cut, and the fast food workers remaining are now competing with robots, and robots will win at that price

And humans still need to eat, right? You want to have 90% of your paycheck stolen by big daddy government to take care of them?

 

[vaperature]

I remember just a few short years ago when 'Obama' was trying to stem the tide of the recession and gave everyone $300.. He wasnt the first to do it, btw, I know... But, when asked where it came from, people almost always said 'Obama! He's rich you know!?'

Another time I was talking to same people in a store about the economy and the recession, and the cashier, a very well dressed and seemingly educated person, blurted out "I just dont see wy they dont print more money?! Just print more and everyone will have lots of money and we could buy anything we wanted!".. another

Of course, when asked 'Would you want more money?' people are gonna say 'Yes'. But they are only thinking about them having more in a world where the price of goods and service remain the same. They are not thinking about the fact that if everyone received more, that the prices will go up and that extra is now worthless, keeping them where they are now.

I remember just a few short years ago when 'Obama' was trying to stem the tide of the recession and gave everyone $300.. He wasnt the first to do it, btw, I know... But, when asked where it came from, people almost always said 'Obama! He's rich you know!?'

Another time I was talking to same people in a store about the economy and the recession, and the cashier, a very well dressed and seemingly educated person, blurted out "I just dont see wy they dont print more money?! Just print more and everyone will have lots of money and we could buy anything we wanted!".. another

Of course, when asked 'Would you want more money?' people are gonna say 'Yes'. But they are only thinking about them having more in a world where the price of goods and service remain the same. They are not thinking about the fact that if everyone received more, that the prices will go up and that extra is now worthless, keeping them where they are now.

Since when to prices of good remain the same? Take beef for example, practically doubled in price over the last six years, yet the minim wage stays the same.

 

[freemind]

The only one I remember giving $300 to everyone was Bush with his tax break, and there went the surplus that Clinton left, poof, gone in a flash.

The government should NEVER have "surplus". It's OUR money, not theirs. WE should decide how to spend our own money.

Government should only levy taxes to pay for the things they are supposed to do, not take our money and play with it. They have a VERY specific function.

 

[freemind]

Since when to prices of good remain the same? Take beef for example, practically doubled in price over the last six years, yet the minim wage stays the same.

Supply and demand.

Less cattle means high beef prices, since demand is not slumping below supply. Remember, GLOBAL economy. Lots of beef is exported.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Yeah, when you need to put food on your table NOW for your kids you tend to think about today not the possibility that your raise may somehow destroy the entire economy over time.

You're right.. But the solution is not to pay more, its make the costs of goods and services lower.. As said, if I raise everyones pay today, you will eat good tomorrow, but the next day you be right back where you were... and in most cases, worse off. The kind of thinking that 'simply raise their pay' is good, is actually a trap that leads to a downward spiral with pretty much no winners in the end.

 

[vaperature]

Somehow I doubt anyone who is against raising the minimum wage is actually working for minimum wage.

 

[freemind]

Somehow I doubt anyone who is against raising the minimum wage is actually working for minimum wage.

Because if you "feel" and don't use logic and reason, then that's where the trouble started.

Rainbow farting unicorns are not reality. Raising minimum wage is bad. Facts are facts.

 

[vaperature]

You're right.. But the solution is not to pay more, its make the costs of goods and services lower.. As said, if I raise everyones pay today, you will eat good tomorrow, but the next day you be right back where you were... and in most cases, worse off. The kind of thinking that 'simply raise their pay' is good, is actually a trap that leads to a downward spiral with pretty much no winners in the end.

Oh bah!!! Corporations make billions of dollars and can afford to pay their employees a little more. People have choices. I have the choice between shopping at the high end grocery store and shopping at the Aldis for half the price. When I want high end stuff I do one, when I just need necessities I shop at the other. And with the internet I'm able to find all sorts of cheap deals. Any way you look at it, put a little more money in my pocket and I'll end up being able to buy more things, period. Prices go up anyway so this fear that prices will go up if the minimum wage is raised is just theory and doesn't matter to the struggling person working two jobs to feed a family.

 

[Midniteoyl]

The only one I remember giving $300 to everyone was Bush with his tax break, and there went the surplus that Clinton left, poof, gone in a flash.

How old are you? This was just 5-6 years ago...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_of_2009

 

[freemind]

Oh bah!!! Corporations make billions of dollars and can afford to pay their employees a little more. People have choices. I have the choice between shopping at the high end grocery store and shopping at the Aldis for half the price. When I want high end stuff I do one, when I just need necessities I shop at the other. And with the internet I'm able to find all sorts of cheap deals. Any way you look at it, put a little more money in my pocket and I'll end up being able to buy more things, period. Prices go up anyway so this fear that prices will go up if the minimum wage is raised is just theory and doesn't matter to the struggling person working two jobs to feed a family.

LOL!
So, you have no clue about owning/running a business, do you?
Afford? Tell that to investors and the folks that get paid by profits a business makes. Somehow you feel entitled to tell them what "profit" is acceptable for their investments?

People can freely choose where they work and how much they are accept getting paid.

You will never see anyone working for someone poor and/or stupid.

 

[vaperature]

How old are you? This was just 5-6 years ago...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_of_2009

I'm 50 years old.

 

[Iamme]

Socialist is socialist

 

[M5amhan]

Oh bah!!! Corporations make billions of dollars and can afford to pay their employees a little more. People have choices. I have the choice between shopping at the high end grocery store and shopping at the Aldis for half the price. When I want high end stuff I do one, when I just need necessities I shop at the other. And with the internet I'm able to find all sorts of cheap deals. Any way you look at it, put a little more money in my pocket and I'll end up being able to buy more things, period. Prices go up anyway so this fear that prices will go up if the minimum wage is raised is just theory and doesn't matter to the struggling person working two jobs to feed a family.

prices dont just go up magically, it is a direct result of increasing the money supply (quantitative easing). mandating higher labor costs with violence (raising minimum wage) will only speed up and make worse the price increases. these aren't theories either, they are economic laws. you are letting emotion get in the way of making rational thought and you dont understand economics

 

[Midniteoyl]

The only one I remember giving $300 to everyone was Bush with his tax break, and there went the surplus that Clinton left, poof, gone in a flash.

Clinton surplus?? Now I know you've been drinking the kool-aid... While things did improve, the first couple of years was due to tax cuts signed into law by Bush Sr., the next couple of years was due to a tax increase and the dot.com bubble (and, shady financing/accounting by certain firms, remember those? ), then 9/11 happened and yes, Bush Jr. then spent a shitload, but that is not what ate up the surplus or killed the economy.

 

[joey55]

Both of your arguments about the minimum wage are valid. What gets lost in the fog of the argument is that there are consequences for all actions.
The minimum wage debate should not be a national one but a regional or state issue. Wages in Iowa will not have the same impact of those in NYC. No way can you put food on the table for your family in NYC with a $15 an hour wage. The min wage is for entry level jobs that kids take to learn and progress into the work force and grow with experience.
Its a damning condemnation of our economy that a person needs a minimum wage job to support a family.
And BTW to all I am working a min wage job because thats all I can get until I can retire. What I'm paid does not cover living expenses in NYC but its all thats available with health benefits.
Do corporations make a lot ? Yes they do and do so for a very good reason,,someone took the risk had an idea and put their money where their mouth was and succeeded. If you run a business and your expenses go up (wages) you compensate for it by either lowering expenses (fewer workers) or raising prices.
I never got a job from a poor person! All I ever asked for is a job and the opportunity to advance.

I think I'll light a cigarette and close my computer since I am getting more frustrated then when I started.
Where the hell is my Zippo?????????????????

 

[vaperature]

Clinton surplus?? Now I know you've been drinking the kool-aid... While things did improve, the first couple of years was due to tax cuts signed into law by Bush Sr., the next couple of years was due to a tax increase and the dot.com bubble (and, shady financing/accounting by certain firms, remember those? ), then 9/11 happened and yes, Bush Jr. then spent a shitload, but that is not what ate up the surplus or killed the economy.

Bush gave a tax break to every single tax payer that came in the form of a rebate check. The average check was $300. I remember because everyone I know got one. That's where the surplus went.

 

[vaperature]

prices dont just go up magically, it is a direct result of increasing the money supply (quantitative easing). mandating higher labor costs with violence (raising minimum wage) will only speed up and make worse the price increases. these aren't theories either, they are economic laws. you are letting emotion get in the way of making rational thought and you dont understand economics

The minimum wage was raised in 2009 and none of the doom and gloom you are predicting happened.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Oh bah!!! Corporations make billions of dollars and can afford to pay their employees a little more. People have choices. I have the choice between shopping at the high end grocery store and shopping at the Aldis for half the price. When I want high end stuff I do one, when I just need necessities I shop at the other. And with the internet I'm able to find all sorts of cheap deals. Any way you look at it, put a little more money in my pocket and I'll end up being able to buy more things, period. Prices go up anyway so this fear that prices will go up if the minimum wage is raised is just theory and doesn't matter to the struggling person working two jobs to feed a family.

Its not theory, it happens.. Its called 'Economics'.

I'm sorry.. I'm done. I know your type and what you believe.. Maybe you'll change as you get older and wiser, I dont know, .. I do know I shouldnt have even popped in here after reading 'Bush did 9/11' in the other thread..

And, before you call me a republican shrill, no.. dont like either party and wish we would just do away with the party system altogether and go to independents.. Just run on what you believe and let the people actually decide for once.. No parties, no lobbyists, etc..

 

[vaperature]

Its not theory, it happens.. Its called 'Economics'.

I'm sorry.. I'm done. I know your type and what you believe.. Maybe you'll change as you get older and wiser, I dont know, .. I do know I shouldnt have even popped in here after reading 'Bush did 9/11' in the other thread..

And, before you call me a republican shrill, no.. dont like either party and wish we would just do away with the party system altogether and go to independents.. Just run on what you believe and let the people actually decide for once.. No parties, no lobbyists, etc..

I don't like either party either. No need to get upset. We just have different opinions. Chill out.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Bush gave a tax break to every single tax payer that came in the form of a rebate check. The average check was $300. I remember because everyone I know got one. That's where the surplus went.

Thats NOT where it went! Gawd... Really? Not everyone even got that 'tax credit'. I know I didnt... While I DID get Obamas, and I dont pay taxes on income as I'm disabled.. So tell me just why should I have got 'money back'??

 

[Midniteoyl]

Not upset.. just hard to convey across the internet... However, I know where you got some, or even most, of your information and I know from experience that its hard to break through that kind of propaganda..

 

[vaperature]

Not upset.. just hard to convey across the internet... However, I know where you got some, or even most, of your information and I know from experience that its hard to break through that kind of propaganda..

It's ALL propaganda my friend. It doesn't matter if you get your propaganda from the left or from the right, it's still propaganda.

 

[joey55]

WOW, THANK YOU ALL!
That Marlboro was great , thanks for giving me the reason to have one, I forgot what I was missing

 

[Midniteoyl]

The minimum wage was raised in 2009 and none of the doom and gloom you are predicting happened.

Hahaha.. The 'Biggest recession in the history of the world' didnt happen? Ok, it didnt start there, but just about every economist out there agrees that that, along with a couple of other actions, it made it deeper and prolonged it.. And, see, I remember my life before and after 2009, and the prices did rise, and my check did not.

 

[Midniteoyl]

WOW, THANK YOU ALL!
That Marlboro was great , thanks for giving me the reason to have one, I forgot what I was missing

Just about man... just about

 

[vaperature]

Hahaha.. The 'Biggest recession in the history of the world' didnt happen? Ok, it didnt start there, but just about every economist out there agrees that that, along with a couple of other actions, it made it deeper and prolonged it.. And, see, I remember my life before and after 2009, and the prices did rise, and my check did not.

No, the recession didn't happen because of predatory lending and funding two stupid wars and all that other shit, it happened because the minimum wage was raised. Give me a break. Lol.

 

[Midniteoyl]

It's ALL propaganda my friend. It doesn't matter if you get your propaganda from the left or from the right, it's still propaganda.

Agreed... Unless you go to the actual facts...

 

[vaperature]

Agreed... Unless you go to the actual facts...

Yeah, everyone these days seems to have an opinion what "actual facts" are. One person's "actual facts" often completely contradict another person's "actual facts" though, how is that the case?

 

[Midniteoyl]

No, the recession didn't happen because of predatory lending and funding two stupid wars and all that other shit, it happened because the minimum wage was raised. Give me a break. Lol.

Re-read... I said 'it didnt start there'.. But it was a kneejerk reaction that didnt help..

 

[Midniteoyl]

Yeah, everyone these days seems to have an opinion what "actual facts" are. One person's "actual facts" often completely contradict another person's "actual facts" though, how is that the case?

Agendas... However, little know, it seems, are actual facts that tell the true story.. One just needs to step away from the spinmisters and look..

 

[vaperature]

Re-read... I said 'it didnt start there'.. But it was a kneejerk reaction that didnt help..

So are you REALLY telling me you'd prefer minimum wage was still at the pre-2009 level? Are you seriously telling me prices wouldn't have gone up anyway and everyone wouldn't be scraping to survive today at pre-2009 minimum wage? Regardless of the consequences, you HAVE to raise the minimum wage now and again. You can't just leave it the same while the cost of living continues to increase.

 

[vaperature]

Agendas... However, little know, it seems, are actual facts that tell the true story.. One just needs to step away from the spinmisters and look..

Your "actual facts" say that raising the minimum wage will make the cost of living go up. My "actual facts" say that this is a moot point if you are ACTUALLY someone trying to raise a family off of minimum wage.