And I'm fairly sure that the ones who paid 180 be certain THEY would know the difference blindfolded. lol
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Vape shops price gouging?
- Thread starter Al Day Vape
- Start date
And I'm fairly sure that the ones who paid 180 be certain THEY would know the difference blindfolded. lol
f1r3b1rd
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I have both and the difference is in the airflow
Erlkoenigin came stock with 2mm, but you could change the positive post to go to 2.5 , 3 or 3.25(I think that's the last) -mine has 3mm
Erlprize is not removable but it comes stock with 2.5
Im not sure what the clones had but I know the positive post is not changeable on them
Could I blindfolded-probably not. What flips me out is when faced with a clone or clone by the authentic maker, people still flocked to clone. Despite there not being a huge price difference
If they were produced by the same company, and there were mechanial differences between them, clone is not the appropiate term. Mechanical differences made it an economy model. if the only difference was external finish, or ornamentation that would be more of a fair compairison.
$140 is not a huge difference?
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Ok... Im typing from a phone and it starts dragging otherwise I would have made it one post.
There were differences the vale is the same, the deck, the chimney internals are the same. They look a little different. The prinze is not as refined.
Still wasn't the point though.
The point was given two choices, one being a clone with no support and undetermined tolerances or an authentic less expensive rendition the general vaping public chose the clone for 10$ cheaper. Found that interesting is all.
f1r3b1rd
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You missed it totally
Erlkoengin 180
Erlprinze 40
Clone (was) 25-30
People grabbed the clone without knowing the tolerances or the draw. They rarely considered the prinze, only difference was the draw(more open than stick koenigin) and the finish was better than the clone but not as good as the koenigin. It was missing decorative dimples and that was it.
So at 10-15$ cheaper the clones won.
The old phone excuse. lol Mine is its New Years, and the keyboard has been drinking.
Gotcha. I was confused, (See keyboard excuse)
Thats where Dr. Drill and Dr. Dremel come in!
Wow! pupping a Santa hat on you avatar paid some serious dividends! Nice unit!
f1r3b1rd
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Lol, yeah I kind of liked it with the mid range.
I bought the koenigin before the prinze was out, but had it with the widest draw. I grabbed the prinze to compare and see what they did. It wasn't bad at all. Just enough to kick the flavor up a tad.
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Haha! Thanks. Someone stole my phone day after Santa day so I figured if I have to replace it why go half ass.
Huge pile of suck. I might have something for that, gotta go, my drunken keyboard smells ham! TTYL.
So why did you?
How about... Let's be honest.
82% of repeat sales at a B&M are juice sales.
Most of these guys (juice makers) did not start in a lab. They started in their kitchens. They only hired people to help, when sales and number of recipes outpaced their production abilities.
It's not a bad life if you can get in the circle. 10 gallons a week = $3500 or more in profit.
I bear no grudge to those who spent the time and money to develope safe, quality products. But let's face it, the vast majority of vendors I've met, are in it because the profits are enormous. Not because they offer a superior product, or care about your health.
The days of high profits are quickly coming to an end, as the Fed realizes how many potential tax dollars are being left on the table.
Al Day Vape
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So who's gonna be left standing when regulations do come? When I got into vaping and started looking around for liquids, I found a few places online that provided reviews of not only the liquids, but also the vendors themselves, their attitude toward self-regulation and wanting to "do things right", to help cultivate a positive image of vaping. How credible and important is the AEMSA? And how much of it is gonna matter anyway if DIY juice-making is the way the market starts moving?
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The mod looks like an evic but that is for sure a tumbler. I was a huge fan back in the day of those.
I don't know who will be left standing. I certainly hope it's a good vendor, for the beginners at vaping sake.
Otherwise we're going to see a lot of disappointed people that may have quit smoking, keep smoking.
While I don't think a beginner will dive in at DIY. That's where we're headed if someone doesn't get control of this monster taxation that's taking place. It will put even the cheapest juice out of reach for most people.
The way I see it, the industry has to make a choice. Drop prices now. Or Keep prices where they are ahead of the taxation, then lower their profit margins substantially once the taxes come. Or see the tax man drive them out of business through lost sales.
When B&M state that 82% of their sales is based on repeat juice sales. How long will that business survive selling $90 30ml juice? Re: Chicago
That translates to about $300 a week for me. I would keep smoking before I spent a grand a month on juice.
Interesting article. However, statistics are like bikinis. What is revealed is interesting, what is concealed is vital.
Al Day Vape
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Honest? 96% of statistics are made up on the spot........
While I am sure the majority of repeat sales are juice, I don't think I argued otherwise, at any point.
I don't know of ANY business that got into business to be a charity. ALL businesses are in it for profits. Even mine.
I can tell you, the one local shop I like to visit, doesn't make 3500 a week in sales. They have been running at a break even, for over 12 months. While I'd like them to succeed, truth is they will likely fail. They have to invest over 10 grand in a lab before July. I don't see that happening. Barring that, without a lab, they will no longer be able to sell juice made in house.
Many juice makers contract a lab to produce their juice. A well respected, but relativly small juice maker was on VU Live taking questions. His juice is produced in a large lab, his cost per bottle, labeled is $2 per bottle if I remember correctly.
On the surface, it would seem that the profits are huge, but it comes down to scale. The cost of having to pick up 500 bottles per batch, pay the fees for his online payment processing, The rent on his warehouse, the time it takes to process and cross check every order, the cost of mailing and cost of replacing damaged or lost orders leaves him with a profit that almost does not make it worth doing He also mentioned that it takes him months to nail down a flavor worth selling, time that he is not directly paid for.
If I recall, he needed $8 a bottle to break even.. He was switching to selling to large wholesale only, as much of his time and overhead are reduced, but the consumer will see no reduction in price, as the wholesaler obviously needs to make money as well.
The same fellow is incredibly supportive of DIY for personal use, and believes that the market will stabilize, and that juice that is exceptional will maintain its place in the market, and much of the junk juice will fail as regulation and DIY fill the vacume, He said that the juice he makes personaly for himself costs less than $0.60 per bottle.
I found him very candid and credible. I'm not in the vape or juice biz, but in any business there are costs the public does not see or consider.
The shop mentioned above, should probably consider outsourcing their juice operation, and wait fot the juice sales to justify the expense of an in house lab. Even if they only commision small batches at a time, if they are selling it direct for a reasonable price per bottle, with a cost of 2-3$ per bottle, it might keep them afloat.
On the surface, it would seem that the profits are huge, but it comes down to scale. The cost of having to pick up 500 bottles per batch, pay the fees for his online payment processing, The rent on his warehouse, the time it takes to process and cross check every order, the cost of mailing and cost of replacing damaged or lost orders leaves him with a profit that almost does not make it worth doing He also mentioned that it takes him months to nail down a flavor worth selling, time that he is not directly paid for.
If I recall, he needed $8 a bottle to break even.. He was switching to selling to large wholesale only, as much of his time and overhead are reduced, but the consumer will see no reduction in price, as the wholesaler obviously needs to make money as well.
The same fellow is incredibly supportive of DIY for personal use, and believes that the market will stabilize, and that juice that is exceptional will maintain its place in the market, and much of the junk juice will fail as regulation and DIY fill the vacume, He said that the juice he makes personaly for himself costs less than $0.60 per bottle.
I found him very candid and credible. I'm not in the vape or juice biz, but in any business there are costs the public does not see or consider.
The shop mentioned above, should probably consider outsourcing their juice operation, and wait fot the juice sales to justify the expense of an in house lab. Even if they only commision small batches at a time, if they are selling it direct for a reasonable price per bottle, with a cost of 2-3$ per bottle, it might keep them afloat.
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The shop in question can't use a large scale juice maker. Indiana doesn't have one like that. With coming regualtions, it will make it impossible to deal with companies outside the state unless they bow and submit to Indiana's new laws.
Secondly, he is already paying for all his labor. They are just sitting on their asses most of the time anyway, so if his juice was premade, it would actually raise his costs.
His only other alternative is to carry premade juices. With no free samples, he will gain little in sales. Everyone here expects samples. He only offers sampling of house juices, and only a small percentage of those actually have samples. He carries cutwood now, but he doesn't reorder often enough to keep stock of what is selling.
Just another example of a poorly run business, with a failed business plan.
At least there is no play pen in his vape shop. lol. Um... There isn't right?
Ha!
No, he has no kids, or a wife for that matter.
His employees, none have kids that I know of. Who knows though.
It wouldn't surprise me though IF I did see that one day.....
However, the law is no one under 18 in vape shops.
I've tried taking him under my "wing" to help him grow and succeed. He doesn't want to spend money advertising and he lets his "manager" over ride his decisions. He has made his own bowl of shit, he can wallow in it.
It's kind of funny, in a disappointing kind of a way. There are two local juice makers from which I've purchased product. One really local--as in 15 minutes away, the other on the other side of the state. The closer one I've seen no mention of at all, here in VU. The other one is here, but appears to communicate only one way. I've twice responded to posts they've made and received no response.
In a different market and different venue: I watched a guy take a small, unknown operation and turn it into a major on-line store simply through his presence in a forum. Plus good products and good customer service.
In a different market and different venue: I watched a guy take a small, unknown operation and turn it into a major on-line store simply through his presence in a forum. Plus good products and good customer service.
Agreed, there are cost the public doesn't see. But I've already seen the wholesale pricing list of one of the larger online players. Under $4 a bottle. Recommended retail, $12.95
Packaging is very important for the average Joe or Jane. So something has to be invested there. You can sell complete s*** if it's in a nice package.
But the bottom line remains. DIY will soon replace the vendor or B&M that can't rise to the challenge of providing a quality product at a fair price.
If I had to venture a guess. I would say half or more of former smokers switched to save money. If they can't save, they won't stay.
Hobbyist aren't going to save the juice end of vaping. While they look cool at the vapefest, there aren't enough of them.
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I can see one shot juice making a splash in the usa. You know how Australia does It?
The Nic is packaged seoerste from the juice and the end user mixes them. I could totally see that.
The Nic is packaged seoerste from the juice and the end user mixes them. I could totally see that.
I don't think DIY will replace bought any more than RYO replaced packaged or generics replaced name brand. I even have time and came up with a really good RYO blend but stuffing that many tubes was a pain. I'm sure mixing is an equal pain for some of the 30ml a day people.
People will always pay big money for nothing more than a name to impress their friends with.
People will always pay big money for nothing more than a name to impress their friends with.
skiibo4200
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Premium? I think Unicorn Milk taste like s***.
And you guys are right, there will be those who buy $100 30ml bottles. But if things keep going the way they are with taxes. Even the worse flavors will cost $100.
I have yet to find a juice I'm willing to pay more than $10 for since learning to DIY. There's 2 accounts here on VU that vape ZERO flavor juice. I see the average joe doing that, before paying $60+ for juice.
I too did the RYO before the taxes hit. Then I went right back to buying my regular brand. I couldn't justify the $2 savings, with the time it took using the machine.
We'll see fewer new vapers joining if taxation hits the rest of the country like it did Chicago and Cook county. Only the most well off, or idiots will be willing to part with $200 a week to support a nicotine habit.
There isn't a cool factor to spending 2 weeks pay on a habit/addiction. And very few will even spend that kind of money on being healthy. Unless they're already dying. Sad but true.
That isn't helping the vape shops in the U.S. They're already placing hazard warnings on 0mg bottles.
The detractors are going after ALL vaping. Because of the bad chemicals reported in studies. They make no reference to the nicotine, unless it's reported as a way to hook new users on vaping.
I was an RYO guy for a while, but the novelty wore off and I wasn't willing to put in a half-hour every night to manufacture enough smokes to get me through the next day once I stopped smoking the green and dedicated my nights to working side jobs that paid money rather than mindless manual labor tasks. But with DIY I can crank out 2 weeks' worth of liquid for me and my wife in the time I'd spend on RYO just for me for a single day. Big difference.
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im sorry i wasnt addressing the banishment folk but rather I was addressing cost for juice and general expense.
separating the Nic could or should be a way to effectively change the way it's priced . A shop could theoretically make more money also by charging for just 'nic shots' its also adding an incentive to motivate new vapors to step down their Nic. Granted the downside is obvious as it opens he fo for real abuse. But there is an upside for Someone like me who vaped 0nic for a while. We could be charged less for the flavor then additional cost for Nic.
It's also a way for the tax structure to be setup per mg or brackets of mg.
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As far as the AemsA thing...I would not spend a fucking penny with anyone WILLING to just hand over money for fucking nothing. they are not smart enough to stay in business.
scamsa is a total rip off worse than the BBB, but you pay for them to just take your money.
I should also note I avoid places with that BBB tag of A or A+, they are not better at all they are just spending upwards of a mortgage payment to the BBB and the prices will reflect it.
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And this kind of information is what people need to know . This info . Is very important and it shows exactly what makes the authentic and sets it above the clone in this case . Thank you .
And we're back to DIY, in a sense.
I can see how this might work to avoid regulation and taxes. Especially if the flavor was sold in the same manner. Letting the customer buy VG & PG from a supplier. Then providing specific instructions on how to mix all the ingrediates.
Nic cost me less than .02 per 30ml bottle. So your thoughts of huge savings based on an absence of Nic, is flawed. It only avoids regulation and the tax man.
And this pretty much defines the battle we are seeing in the U.S. they're coming after the juice industry as a whole. This also explains how the Fed will target flavors. Not at the manufacturer, but the retailer.
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And your solution to some compromise would be what?
How do you get that i am suggesting diy? I am not suggesting DIY, I am suggesting a way for premium juicers to still provide their 'premium' juice. The purpose I am stating is to sidestep DIY. One bottle of zero Nic, one bottle of Nic. You are overcomplicating a simple concept in hypothetical. You may be right when it comes to Nic. (havent bought any in a year now ) But, since that is the only commonality between tobacco and ecigs and the only thing that can arguably be called a drug, it's the only thing the FDA can legally tax.
Vaping will never be banned, the day the us government makes a cash cow go the way of the dodo: Is the day we stop waging war. The industry is to large and to much of a taxable industry. That is their endgame. They just want their pound of flesh
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I truly don't know. But the only way we're going to avoid $60+ per 30ml, is for the entire community to get on board with lobbying DC. Not just the vendors and B&M. None of us win if we don't consider it a community wide issue.
Price gouging itself, will be handled by the end user refusing to pay the price. But taxation and regulation, is a community issue that can't be denied.
None of this will affect me, I DIY and have enough base ingredients for a couple of years. But it doesn't stop my concern for those who don't.
f1r3b1rd
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Check my edit, I sent to soon....i have no concern either since I no longer vape and I was also a diyer , but, I hate seeing my people getting it in the butt.
I also know that doing nothing is not an answer either
Checking your edit. I didn't mean to imply you meant DIY. But that's the direction I see us going. Bootleg style.
If you read through the research presented, which I'm sure you have. There's a Nazi mentality approach to rid us of the entire industry.
To borrow a phrase from talk radio. Americans hate seeing someone happy. So they will destroy any attempt they see. Even if they have to tax it out of existence.
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I've read it. But i see it as part of the game they are playing. They are waging a psychological war we are fighting a factual war. Make no mistake they want to tax the piss out of us.
But 1st they wanna get the general public on their side. People that don't care either way to care. they are slowly making us a public enemy
Scaring everyone that were vaping chemicals andl is just another way to get everyone else to want us out of existence.
Then they can say okay now they can keep it but were gonna text it. So then everyones OK with the taxes and we're OK, with at least they are not going to take it.
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skiibo4200
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Can you belive we live in America and still belive in freedom? Everything about the vape industry right now is the government telling us we don't know what's best for us, so step aside and let us take care of your "problems" for you.
America land of the free.. more like America land of the regulated out of existence. I remember talking with my grand father when I was young and he always said that freedom will slowly be compromised with over regulation due to the legalistic form of democracy we currently support. We see it in all aspects of society take seat belt laws for example. I'm to stupid to know how to live my life so fine me if I don't comply with your way of life.
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They have to, if they are gonna keep giving away free shit.
As far as im concerned they should turn off the spicket and the regs and let everything work itself out. But so long as they keep with handouts we all fucked
skiibo4200
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Well the hand outs are the only thing that keep this economy running. Our economic bubble popped in 2008 and the only reason we haven't seen things get as bad as they should be are the stimulus packages they hand out every few months. Wich are obviously loans from the federal reserver wich are insured by bonds the Chinese government buys off them.
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Hence the very root of the problem right there. Had they let the shit hit the fan and let everyone feel the pain and rise from the ashes together we would be in a very different state of affairs.
Printing money and devaluing the currency causes more problems later on down the road. You can't keep in kicking the can for the next generation.
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