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Vape shops price gouging?

Bucky205

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The scary part is that were seeing the demise of the American economy. If you follow the news, you have probably seen the middle class is shrinking. Two decades ago money in the economy would trickle down. We were using that money and creating businesses that provided income through employment, and opportunities to others. Money in today's economy flows up, those companies, and countries with the resources to inexpensively make money are thriving. Look at Walmart, prime example of money flowing up instead of down. Online competitors are even hurting Walmart, and Walmart is helping kill American jobs.
 
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pulsevape

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I've always had time to do one cost-saving DIY step at a time. The order I ended up with:

1. Learn to make juice. Saved over $4,000 so far.
2. Learn to rebuild my wife's disposable attys. Saved over $500.
3. Learn to tear apart/fix mods. Saved over $200.
4. Learn to make TC coils and better RDA coils. Saved... well, I'm still losing money on this one.
5. Learn enough about new hardware to buy online... versus going to our B&M and telling him to sell me what he'd use if he didn't vape off demos.

Hey, I have to give the guy SOME money. We go in there and hang out once in a while. And hanging out in vape shops have made #'s 1-4 happen way quicker. Since switching to mods in 2012, I've overpaid maybe $200 on B&M products. Closer to $250 if you factor in FastTech prices for drip tips and batt holders, etc.
learned there was some really cool new devices on the market lost 700.00
 
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pulsevape

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The scary part is that were seeing the demise of the American economy. If you follow the news, you have probably seen the middle class is shrinking. Two decades ago money in the economy would trickle down. We were using that money and creating businesses that provided income through employment, and opportunities to others. Money in today's economy flows up, those companies, and countries with the resources to inexpensively make money are thriving. Look at Walmart, prime example of money flowing up instead of down. And online competitors are even hurting Walmart.
don't you listen to the state controled media? the economy has rebounded....
 

f1r3b1rd

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We have a few around here by me. I frequent 2 of them that seem to work together and haven't forgotten why vaping exists. The prices are more than online;but not terribly more. I tend to buy more from one then the other;but,I do spend money at both. Not much, but, enough to help me stay in the mix, and spend some time there, helping give new people advices do a small part at helping them stay in business. the first place alot of new vapors go is the b&m,I would hate to seethe good shops close.
 

freemind

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Lovin this discussion.

It boils down to this. Informed users.

Most people who are buying in vape shops, have no other info about what they are buying or the pricing of it. For the rest of us, we are more informed. The slice of the vaping community on the net, is a SMALL slice of vapers.

I have told a local shop owner, I would get along with a mark up, up to 50% from what I can get something for, but beyond that, I WILL continue to purchase online. Simple as that. These shops are getting price breaks that we aren't getting. I have no problem with them making profits, but I am just not stupid with my money. It's not like I am going to get much more buying local, then I am online. Let's be real. Most shops are not going to warranty your device for more than a week or two. Beyond that, they are going to tell you to take it up with the manufacture.
 

martinelias

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"Premium" juice is expensive both online and in b&ms.
Buy from juice companies that dont sell so expensive like ohmsvape and itcvapes or even better learn to mix your own.
Wire is crazy expensive to buy in store at least here in miami its like 10 bucks for 30 feet. I buy from ebay or from temco... i spend 50 bucks at temco the other day and i am waiting for around 3000f of assorted wires to show up at my door sometime this week probably.
Now as for mods and attys, i shop at vaporshark in store and it seems to be the same or close prices than what i see online. I got the petri last week for 95 and got 10 percent holiday discount so paid around 84.50 plus taxes, pretty good proce for petri considering i seen it for 100 in some online vendors... got cloud cap today for like 45 and 2 dot mod drip tips for 50 which seems to be on par with market in general... i guess you gotta buy from big name shops to get decent prices. No name shops usuallu dont carry big variety anyway and are more in the market of selling ego type batteries to smokers looking to switch to vaping, which i think we can all appreciate. The keeper of vape shop in my neighborhood told me like 99% of his sales comes from ego/mvp and nautilus users that buy the 5 dollar house juice.... so its cool in my book.

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Bucky205

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don't you listen to the state controled media? the economy has rebounded....
LOL, Next we can talk about the velocity of money. It's currently a failing system. I don't know how we fix it. Walking into a voting booth and choosing between Trump, and Clinton is a nightmare in itself. We are very screwed, people just don't realize how screwed.
 

ej1024

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I remember buying a .5 ohm kanger subtank coil head for $4 bucks yikes....
VAPE COUTURE here in California, the next day someone stole $300 mod in the store
KARMA IS A BITCH!!!
VAPORDNA FLAGSHIP store is similar, but sometimes the folks at the vapor flagship store don't know what the hell IM talking about


VAPE ON
 

skiibo4200

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I haven't seen it 1000%. A retail shop has to operate at close to 100% minimum markup (margin) just to be profitable. Online retailers can sell at 25-50% margin, some even less, and profit. Amazon can make a little on every transaction and sustain by doing millions of transactions. Now you throw in the fact that the retailer can only buy at a price that is 20% less than what someone can order it for online. The sad part, I have seen people go into their local shop to figure out what they like. Then order it online to save money, without ever considering the service their local shop offered. Since the internet shopping caught on, the retail industry is struggling just to survive.
juice in general is over 1000% mark up a 30ml bottle of premium juice costs me 65 cents to make they charge 22$ that's over 2000% mark up. Do some diying research find out yourself.

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freemind

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juice in general is over 1000% mark up a 30ml bottle of premium juice costs me 65 cents to make they charge 22$ that's over 2000% mark up. Do some diying research find out yourself.

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To be fair You don't have to pay employees to make it, pay for the space to make it in, or other overheads such as insurance, to make your juice. You only have the basic costs of ingredients. So the comparison isn't fair or proper. That comparison would only be fair if a retailer was making juice in their kitchen. To which, non of us really want.
 

f1r3b1rd

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One of the two shops I frequent is owned by a good friend of mine.
And here's the business model our two big ones use.
-the charge not much more than interweb average for hardware and roughly half of premium juice price for house.
They have a fairly small staff and essentially one shop sells the super high end and the other shop sells the average authentics. Neither of those 2 carry clone gear.
They pretty much make there bread and butter on house juice and by providing customer service.
He's told me many times that if he gets someone setup with the right device for them, and doesn't fuck them, then he's made a customer for life, because they will always go back for juice.
-that mindset is what is missing from our other shops here;they see customers as wallets with legs.
 

Al Day Vape

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To be fair You don't have to pay employees to make it, pay for the space to make it in, or other overheads such as insurance, to make your juice. You only have the basic costs of ingredients. So the comparison isn't fair or proper. That comparison would only be fair if a retailer was making juice in their kitchen. To which, non of us really want.
True, but then again, how important is quality control and sanitation? Some juice companies invest in clean labs, precision measuring, and sterilization equipment to make sure their product isn't contaminated. There are costs associated with this versus some dude mixing juice in his spare bedroom where there's a litter box in the corner.

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skt239

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I was at the vape shop local to me a couple weeks ago and watched someone shell $150 for an Evic VTC mini kit and two bottles of juice. Shitty juice I might add. The owner was kind enough to throw in a purple efest. Overhearing their convo, it sounded like the guy wanted to quit smoking, had popped into the shop which he passes by regularly on a whim and decided "today's the day". I'm sure he went home to start learning about his device online and was shocked by the price difference.
 

Al Day Vape

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I was at the vape shop local to me a couple weeks ago and watched someone shell $150 for an Evic VTC mini kit and two bottles of juice. Shitty juice I might add. The owner was kind enough to throw in a purple efest. Overhearing there convo, it sounded like the guy wanted to quit smoking, had popped into the shop which he passes by regularly on a whim and decided "today's the day". I'm sure he went home to start learning about his device online and was shocked by the price difference.
That's messed up.

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skt239

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That's messed up.

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It is but its not uncommon. My wife went to what I consider to be a better vape shop, in terms of selection and staff, to buy a Sig 150 TC for my birthday and luckily checked prices online before she bought it. They wanted $150 for it... Pretty much a $1 a watt. I'm glad I never ended up with one, especially for that price.
 

f1r3b1rd

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I was at the vape shop local to me a couple weeks ago and watched someone shell $150 for an Evic VTC mini kit and two bottles of juice. Shitty juice I might add. The owner was kind enough to throw in a purple efest. Overhearing their convo, it sounded like the guy wanted to quit smoking, had popped into the shop which he passes by regularly on a whim and decided "today's the day". I'm sure he went home to start learning about his device online and was shocked by the price difference.
See, im the asshole that would chirp up and say something before he paid.
 

Bucky205

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And juice in general is over 1000% mark up a 30ml bottle of premium juice costs me 65 cents to make they charge 22$ that's over 2000% mark up. Do some diying research find out yourself.

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Weve looked at stocking DIY supplies. There is such a huge assortment of flavors, keeping inventory becomes difficult. I definitely think DIY is the way to go in making vaping affordable, but were going to leave that to the online guys. Actual makers of juices have shown me their cost in a 30 ml glass bottle, with a label is about $3. They sell it between $6 - $10. We sell it $18-$25. I can show you actual invoices. House juices we pay $5, and sell for $12. The more popular a juice, the more it is going to cost you. The laws of supply, and demand all the way through the chain. I am in Alabama and I know places like California, and the NE costs are higher. I follow the prices of hardware pretty closely, and yes we are about twice the price of ordering online. I have also seen a lot of juice that was ordered and never sold, or get sold at way below what was paid for it. I wish it were as simple as paying $6 for a bottle and selling it for $12, over and over. You also have to deal with what you ordered that didn't sell. In this industry you may order 20 Wismec Reuleaux's and they be considered old technology before they even get to the shop, and your stuck with a loss. Juice preferences change month to month. What you can't keep on the shelf this month, you may not be able to sell next month. Vape shops, and juice manufacturers pop up daily. Lets suppose you spend $20,000.00 on inventory this month and the government passes a vape tax that sends everyone hunting online, and bootleggers. The devils in the details, owning a vape shop is not as lucrative as you might think.
 

freemind

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True, but then again, how important is quality control and sanitation? Some juice companies invest in clean labs, precision measuring, and sterilization equipment to make sure their product isn't contaminated. There are costs associated with this versus some dude mixing juice in his spare bedroom where there's a litter box in the corner.

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Agreed. I personally expect a good degree of cleanliness. @VaporJoes explained it pretty well (how I feel too) over the Crimney debacle. It doesn't need to come from a operating room, sterile experience, but neither do I want them mixing juice next to a shitter or where insulation and shit could be getting in my juice.

For a retailer to build a reasonable "lab", it costs money. I'm willing to bet, few of us home DIYers are doing much of anything close to that. I have seen how others mix here, and I am pretty similar. Well organized, but still at the kitchen table. I also would not feel comfortable selling my juice. Not because I am not clean, but because I don't feel the home environment is clean enough to sell something everyone should be putting in their mouths.
 

Myk

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To be fair You don't have to pay employees to make it, pay for the space to make it in, or other overheads such as insurance, to make your juice. You only have the basic costs of ingredients. So the comparison isn't fair or proper. That comparison would only be fair if a retailer was making juice in their kitchen. To which, non of us really want.

Profit margin and markup are very different things.

When you consider the cost of a cigarette vs the markup on a cigarette minus the taxes of a cigarette other than it being a niche market there is no excuse for the higher priced eliquid costing what it does.
But it is a niche market. If you're having to feed our family selling 2 bottles of eliquid a year you will need to charge a lot more than if you're selling a million bottles a year.

Something not considered is ecigs are more like a pipe shop than a cigarette shop.
 

f1r3b1rd

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In that respect, you are a better man than me.
It's not an issue of being better. It's keeping a shop in check; and, knowing I got fucked that way when I started. I wish someone would have hit me in the head, then.2 years ago I paid 125$ for a mvp2.0. At the time we had 1 shop and I went in on whim. A month later I bough a p2.5 for not much more on the web. Since then, I have made it a point when I see something to do what no one did for me- to not see anyone else who is at the point of taking a risk, through desperation to quit smoking, get get fucked for trying to be healthier
 

Myk

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For a retailer to build a reasonable "lab", it costs money.
glove box.jpg
Pretty cheap to make, cheaper to buy than some of the "lab" rooms I've seen and far above what is required to make clean liquid.

I make liquid where I have bottled beer and canned vegetables without a problem. I'm sure it's good enough to mix liquid since there is nothing in liquid to grow into a problem if anything did happen to fall into the 1/4" bottle opening.
I have no doubt good kitchen practices are all that are needed for eliquid.
 

freemind

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Profit margin and markup are very different things.

When you consider the cost of a cigarette vs the markup on a cigarette minus the taxes of a cigarette other than it being a niche market there is no excuse for the higher priced eliquid costing what it does.
But it is a niche market. If you're having to feed our family selling 2 bottles of eliquid a year you will need to charge a lot more than if you're selling a million bottles a year.

Something not considered is ecigs are more like a pipe shop than a cigarette shop.
No one was discussing profit margins vs markup. Lets not muddy the water....

There is an excuse why e-liquid is priced as it is. Because they can, and people are buying it. The advent of sub ohming is why people are taking notice to juice prices.

Back when we used pen type devices, a 20 mil bottle of juice lasted a week. Now, most of us burn that in a day. It is like having that PAD habit again.
 

Bucky205

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You could make all of these same arguments for whiskey, or wine. You can DIY it, for a fraction of the cost.
 

f1r3b1rd

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No one was discussing profit margins vs markup. Lets not muddy the water....

There is an excuse why e-liquid is priced as it is. Because they can, and people are buying it. The advent of sub ohming is why people are taking notice to juice prices.

Back when we used pen type devices, a 20 mil bottle of juice lasted a week. Now, most of us burn that in a day. It is like having that PAD habit again.
^^^^^^that right there ^^^^^^
 

pulsevape

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Weve looked at stocking DIY supplies. There is such a huge assortment of flavors, keeping inventory becomes difficult. I definitely think DIY is the way to go in making vaping affordable, but were going to leave that to the online guys. Actual makers of juices have shown me their cost in a 30 ml glass bottle, with a label is about $3. They sell it between $6 - $10. We sell it $18-$25. I can show you actual invoices. House juices we pay $5, and sell for $12. The more popular a juice, the more it is going to cost you. The laws of supply, and demand all the way through the chain. I am in Alabama and I know places like California, and the NE costs are higher. I follow the prices of hardware pretty closely, and yes we are about twice the price of ordering online. I have also seen a lot of juice that was ordered and never sold, or get sold at way below what was paid for it. I wish it were as simple as paying $6 for a bottle and selling it for $12, over and over. You also have to deal with what you ordered that didn't sell. In this industry you may order 20 Wismec Reuleaux's and they be considered old technology before they even get to the shop, and your stuck with a loss. Juice preferences change month to month. What you can't keep on the shelf this month, you may not be able to sell next month. Vape shops, and juice manufacturers pop up daily. Lets suppose you spend $20,000.00 on inventory this month and the government passes a vape tax that sends everyone hunting online, and bootleggers. The devils in the details, owning a vape shop is not as lucrative as you might think.
the money is in juice.....I think DIY is the next cash cow to milk....it's going to get more and more popular,becuase it's part of the hobby, but also for sheer economic reasons..
 

Myk

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No one was discussing profit margins vs markup. Lets not muddy the water....

Markups were mentioned. You brought in profit margins to justify the 1000%-2000% markups. Naming them isn't muddying water.

What I see as the real problem with cloud chasing is 4mg costs about half as much as 18mg in material. That does not get reflected in the price.
OK, profit margins vs markup, material is a small portion of the price. Yet the higher profits of 30ml a day vs 30ml a week don't seem to enter into it either.
It's like you said, they charge what they can get away with. That is a poor business model (but it seems to be the modern business model).

You could make all of these same arguments for whiskey, or wine. You can DIY it, for a fraction of the cost.

You don't have to buy a federal tax license to make liquid (yet) like you do whiskey or wine.
I figured up I would have to spend at least $3,000,000 to start a winery to make the licensing pay. What's going to happen to ecig prices when they do need licensing and if they get the insane taxes of tobacco if they're priced like this now?
 

vuJim

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OTOH: Just went looking for 24 ga., and perhaps 22 ga., Kanthal. Well, the only vape store open on NYD had only 100' spools. Their price wasn't terribly bad, but I wasn't out to buy 100' of wire atm. Guy rummages through the store's own box o' building parts & tools, says "There's a bit left on this spool" and gives it to me.

They've gotten my business in the past. They'll certainly get more in the future.
 

centella4u

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One shop I often visit sells items for a price not so much more than if I buy online. But the service is great. You can sample lots of ejuice while waiting for him to build coils for you, using his own wire and cotton. Can't beat that. Plus I get the satisfaction of receiving goods right when I pay for it, not having to wait for a few weeks.


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freemind

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Markups were mentioned. You brought in profit margins to justify the 1000%-2000% markups. Naming them isn't muddying water.

What I see as the real problem with cloud chasing is 4mg costs about half as much as 18mg in material. That does not get reflected in the price.
OK, profit margins vs markup, material is a small portion of the price. Yet the higher profits of 30ml a day vs 30ml a week don't seem to enter into it either.
It's like you said, they charge what they can get away with. That is a poor business model (but it seems to be the modern business model).
I'm not justifying anything. It's business, plain and simple.

I myself, do not like paying 10+ bucks a 30 mil, so I make my own. Simple solution, right?

Were I in the juice business, I would charge as much as I could get away with.
 

f1r3b1rd

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I myself, do not like paying 10+ bucks a 30 mil, so I make my own. Simple solution, right?
Were I in the juice business, I would charge as much as I could get away with.
You have to love that age old economic principal of supply and demand
 

Djentleman9601

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I know what you all mean, I love going into my local vape shop and trying a few liquids and buying one while chatting. But they charge to damn much. I buy most of my stuff online but I'll always pop there now again just to keep the community alive. I live in the uk and they charged me last time ÂŁ10 for a 15ml of beard.
 

Myk

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I'm not justifying anything. It's business, plain and simple.

I myself, do not like paying 10+ bucks a 30 mil, so I make my own. Simple solution, right?

Were I in the juice business, I would charge as much as I could get away with.

Which is a poor business model and why this discussion always comes up. Eventually your customers are going to start asking why you're charging 2000% markup on liquid and 300% over what online stores are selling hardware for. You make as much as you can get away with and fly by night when your customers catch on.
Like the store that is no longer in business here. Or you can charge a fair price and still be in business like the other stores close to me.

I think a big part of the problem is people going into vaping business without a clue how to run a business plus there not being a long term LVS standard business model for them to base their plan off.
 

freemind

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You have to love that age old economic principal of supply and demand
I've got no problems with it.

However, if someone wants to capture my money..... It better feel like a deal to me.

This is why I don't spend money locally, at vape shops.

I actually got the owner to listen to me about pricing, but his nit wit manager decided otherwise. Mark up is over 100% on everything. Hence, non of my money is spent there.
 

f1r3b1rd

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I've got no problems with it.

However, if someone wants to capture my money..... It better feel like a deal to me.

This is why I don't spend money locally, at vape shops.

I actually got the owner to listen to me about pricing, but his nit wit manager decided otherwise. Mark up is over 100% on everything. Hence, non of my money is spent there.
Sounds all to familiar. We had that, competition moved in and they figured fix it or shutdown.
 

Huff-N-Stuff

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The scary part is that were seeing the demise of the American economy. If you follow the news, you have probably seen the middle class is shrinking. Two decades ago money in the economy would trickle down. We were using that money and creating businesses that provided income through employment, and opportunities to others. Money in today's economy flows up, those companies, and countries with the resources to inexpensively make money are thriving. Look at Walmart, prime example of money flowing up instead of down. Online competitors are even hurting Walmart, and Walmart is helping kill American jobs.
Not only a shrinking middle class, but compare the number of middle class (earnings) from 1970 to today; not only is the number of those in that band smaller, but TODAY, I`ll bet most in that MC band are families with dual income, far different from 1970`s
IMO, nice it was/is for mom to be able to stay at home, especially with children..just my 2 cents
 

Bucky205

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If I were going to spend to hedge the future, I would spend $25 on 30 ml of 999 mg/ml nicotine. If it ends up getting regulated, you will be able to trade nicotine for anything in the industry. 30 ml of 999 will turn 10 liters of ejuice into 3 mg. That should last you a couple years.
 

freemind

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Which is a poor business model and why this discussion always comes up. Eventually your customers are going to start asking why you're charging 2000% markup on liquid and 300% over what online stores are selling hardware for. You make as much as you can get away with and fly by night when your customers catch on.
Like the store that is no longer in business here. Or you can charge a fair price and still be in business like the other stores close to me.

I think a big part of the problem is people going into vaping business without a clue how to run a business plus there not being a long term LVS standard business model for them to base their plan off.

Lol. I really don't think you know a lot about running a business. There is more than one price model to running a business. Look at the food industry.Ruth Crist is still selling 50 dollar meals. McD's hasn't run them out of business. Right? How about the HexOhm fans? Are they running to fast tech to buy those 20 dollar mech boxes? Nope.

Even Crimney's being exposed, didn't stop their fanboys.
 

Huff-N-Stuff

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There is a new Vape Store in my area and prices are very high IMO, but I understand that he is trying to get the business going and needs to make it worthwhile..
I will not say that $10.00 for 10ml is gouging, because it would cost me $10.00 in gas to drive to the next nearest dealer to pay half that for 10ml.
I did think that some of his devices and batteries looked to be of lesser quality and also much more expensive than what can be ordered on-line, but after he gets established, feel that this could change for him.
The owner is a great guy, and I`m good friend of his mom and dad, work with his brother.
I have made purchases from him, primarily because of those reasons..
 

OneBadWolf

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Obviously, there is a large difference in vape shops. The example I used of my last purchase at a vape shop, the RX22 for a cost of $43.30 USD after tax, in 2 different shops in the same city, shows that there is massive markup on vape products. There is another shop I have been to here, and it is on a main high rent high traffic throughfare, who charges $16 for 10ml of juice, sells old clearance Fasttech attys for $45, only has 2 show cases, behind which, he has a bunch of folding tables, where the sole staff member/owner does his mail order.

There is no sampleing juice, as just to the left of the door, he has a play pen set up for his toddler. While I looked around, and marvled at the $165 he was selling the X Cube 2 for, he felt it nessasary to explain the play-pen being due to his wife not helping out, and how she had changed the passode on his Facebook page and because of that he was behind in his mail orders,, "so did I want anything??"

That was 4 months ago, and is still still in business. You would think in a city with at least 14 vape shops, that he would be done, but somehow he is still there.

Now, if he was the only game in town, I'd resume buying from Fasttech, even thought they are almost an anachronism these days.

Even the corner store I used to buy my smokes at sells vape stuff now. I chatted with the owner, who has never smoked or vaped, and tried to explain what stuff he should stock, but with English being his second language, and the way his eyes glazed over when I tried to explain battery safety, it has not gone too well. Still, you can buy an authentic Smok TFV4 there for $40, $15 less than the vape shop-daycare.

On this forum, we monitor the price of vape gear more closely than most commodity traders. As the market grows and stabilizesI predict that the price gougers, will either have to change their business models, or die off.

There is simply too much diversity, and the market is still growing, the poor shops will die off and the good ones will expand.

If you live in a city or town where there is a single gougy shop, I would recognize that as a possible opportunity.

I'm aware of a shop in BC that so threatened their competition, that a bomb was planted, and detonated at their new store. Thankfully they were closed at the time, and the gas meter the bomb was attatched to failed to explode, still it took out all the windows and door. If I recall, the CCTV of the bomber and blast was posted on Liveleak. There is money to be made in the vaping biz, One of the 2 shops selling the $43 RX200s, just opened a second location.

Even at the vapy daycare, I would not have approached a customer ( had there been any) and suggested that they go to a different shop. What I would do, is approach a customer and mention that they really should join VU. If they do, they will in very short order realize they are being taken advantage of, and look elsewhere.

My point in a nutshell, if you have shitty stores, make a point to tell every vaper you meet, about the forums. So many I talk to have no idea they exist, or have been turned off due to the Nazis at ECF and intolerant people on other forums as well.

This is not out of a sense of public service only, it also provides me with an assurance that the daycare rape shop type places will go the way of the dinosaur.

This is no attack on mail order. There are many places that have no vape shops at all, and the online stores provide an inportant resource.
 

Huff-N-Stuff

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Wowzers..tried to put the competition out of business for good.
 

f1r3b1rd

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Lol. I really don't think you know a lot about running a business. There is more than one price model to running a business. Look at the food industry.Ruth Crist is still selling 50 dollar meals. McD's hasn't run them out of business. Right? How about the HexOhm fans? Are they running to fast tech to buy those 20 dollar mech boxes? Nope.

Even Crimney's being exposed, didn't stop their fanboys.
What wrong with being a hexohm fan :(
:) hahahahaga
 

ChrisL

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When I go back home to So. Cal to see my grandchildren, I often stop in at the local B/M, who happens to be a VU advertiser and popular online retailer (don't know why, prices aren't that great:confused:), and the prices for the mods, etc.. are significantly higher in the store than online. The staff is knowledgeable and friendly, and the selection is incredible, but I just browse due to the price difference. Name brand juice prices are just crazy, like five bucks a bottle more...
 

skiibo4200

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Like I said juice prices are 90% hype and 10% juice any juice maker or advertiser will tell you sales have very little to do with staff, labs, purity, and more to do with what's all the rage in the juice industry today.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk
 

f1r3b1rd

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To be fair hexOhm is 100% USA made and their profits are no more then the Chinese made junk, it just costs them a lot more to pay people 8 bucks an hour rather then 2 bucks a day.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk
Right?
And out of all of My mods that one has seen more use and abuse than anything.
 

OneBadWolf

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The US is legendary for paying their CNC machines a decent hourly wage. Labor I think is a small fraction of cost if the scale is large enough. I have a "High End Mod" made in England, and the workmanship is very good. The threading and tolerances on my Youde Goliath though are better.

Wismec have gone to the trouble of conducting the perfect experiment for us with the two versions of the Reuleaux. I'd like to do a blindfold test, where the DNA owners had to identify which device was which, and which device they preferred.

Recently there was a blindfold test where a group of world class violinists, who play Strads for a living did a blindfold test of their Strad, two other Strads and two violins made by modern living craftsmen. The results were suprising.

There will always be the vape snobs, if you want to see their analogs, just visit a high end audio store some time. Or a gun shop. They will allways be the fattest ones, busy loudly argueing with red faces about the "transparency" and "nuance" of an audio component, or the advantages of .40 over .10mm. They have the fewest recordings, and will be the least likely to be spotted at a range.

There will also be the bigger better more powerfull types. Who cares. At the end of the day, we are all manageing to extend our lifespan by vaping. With the noted exception of noobs with shitty batteries, mechs and subtanks. For which we may not be completly blameless in all cases.

The best possible vape equipiment money can buy for anybody, is whatever they enjoy using, and keeps them off the stinkys.

Not too many first time vapers will buy their first gear from online sources. At least I hope that is not the case.

How do you attach a price to being delivered from cigs? Some vape stores might gouge, some might be reasonable, but in the end, by either supporting or not supporting them, we will end up with the vape shops we deserve as consumers.
 

f1r3b1rd

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The US is legendary for paying their CNC machines a decent hourly wage. Labor I think is a small fraction of cost if the scale is large enough. I have a "High End Mod" made in England, and the workmanship is very good. The threading and tolerances on my Youde Goliath though are better.

Wismec have gone to the trouble of conducting the perfect experiment for us with the two versions of the Reuleaux. I'd like to do a blindfold test, where the DNA owners had to identify which device was which, and which device they preferred.

Recently there was a blindfold test where a group of world class violinists, who play Strads for a living did a blindfold test of their Strad, two other Strads and two violins made by modern living craftsmen. The results were suprising.

There will always be the vape snobs, if you want to see their analogs, just visit a high end audio store some time. Or a gun shop. They will allways be the fattest ones, busy loudly argueing with red faces about the "transparency" and "nuance" of an audio component, or the advantages of .40 over .10mm. They have the fewest recordings, and will be the least likely to be spotted at a range.

There will also be the bigger better more powerfull types. Who cares. At the end of the day, we are all manageing to extend our lifespan by vaping. With the noted exception of noobs with shitty batteries, mechs and subtanks. For which we may not be completly blameless in all cases.

The best possible vape equipiment money can buy for anybody, is whatever they enjoy using, and keeps them off the stinkys.

Not too many first time vapers will buy their first gear from online sources. At least I hope that is not the case.

How do you attach a price to being delivered from cigs? Some vape stores might gouge, some might be reasonable, but in the end, by either supporting or not supporting them, we will end up with the vape shops we deserve as consumers.
Erlkoenigin did the same thing as wismec last year. The erlprimze was a 40dollar version of the 180$ erlkoenigin.
Most people bought the clone though
 

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