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ECC BANS ALL CLONES FROM BEING SOLD

Trauma Vapes

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Definition of CLONE

: one that appears to be a copy of an original form :duplicate<a clone of a personal computer>





    • <the car is a clone under a different brand name—it's even manufactured in the same plant as its cousin>
source - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/clone

would be true if the body style was not changed. But it was. So it becomes a different vehicles. And notice the logos are all geo or chevy. Even though under the hood we knew it was a toyota. I hope for that one day from clones.
 

Whiskey

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I agree with your sunglasses, however I don't agree with forcing trolls out. LOL I do enjoy trolls from time to time, don't you? Joe said it, trolls are a sign of how much we've grown.

Ahhh yes, yes I do, this sort of troll, negative, small dick syndrome and all

tumblr_lg253xvO3i1qg7afbo1_500_thumb1_zps576d7055.jpg
 

Trauma Vapes

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And if you guys are all about clones... then why do you bitch and complain about the fake vtc batteries? Ironic and contradictory! They are clones too after all!
 

MikeL

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Why are they banning "clones"? Are the organizers so stupid they think cloning, ie "generic" or "after market" or "gray market" products are the same as counterfeit products? I think we can all agree that "cloned" products have a place in the market, while counterfeit ones do not.
 

MikeL

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And if you guys are all about clones... then why do you bitch and complain about the fake vtc batteries? Ironic and contradictory! They are clones too after all!
No where on this thread have I seen the word COUNTERFEIT used. Clone are legal after market or gray market or generic products. FAKE is just a polite way of say COUNTERFEIT. That is the real issue, is it not?
 

MikeL

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And if you guys are all about clones... then why do you bitch and complain about the fake vtc batteries? Ironic and contradictory! They are clones too after all!
A fake is NOT a clone, it is COUNTERFEIT....
 

Dougw63

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  1. <the car is a clone under a different brand name—it's even manufactured in the same plant as its cousin> if you'll recall I used certain other auto manufacturers previously to your example.Glad to see you try to back off certain points you made previously while still making assertions on others all the time disregarding in part or whole points and counterpoints made to you. Keep on picking and choosing. The hole you dug is deeper than you thought. I'm sure we could have a valid discussion if you weren't feeling the constant need to defend yourself. However, as I said, that hole you dug is huge. I did notice two other people stopped commenting on this thread. I give you points for hanging in there.
 

Trauma Vapes

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No where on this thread have I seen the word COUNTERFEIT used. Clone are legal after market or gray market or generic products. FAKE is just a polite way of say COUNTERFEIT. That is the real issue, is it not?

No that is the exact same thing. The fakes have the same build, same cells, same electrolytes. Someone printed sony vtc5 on them and sold them as sony. That is what clone makers do. But people have said they are not counterfeit. Clones and these fake batteries are the same thing. By definition they are the same things.
 

TygerTyger

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And if you guys are all about clones... then why do you bitch and complain about the fake vtc batteries? Ironic and contradictory! They are clones too after all!

To be fair, you've had plenty of good points throughout this discussion, but this isn't one of them. I don't actually care about knock-off batteries *IF* they perform to spec. Sadly, too many of the knock-offs don't and while they are being sold with impressive ratings, they aren't safe to operate at those specs. That becomes a safety issue, when someone believes that a battery can produce a given continuous output safely, but it actually performs much lower. Metal tubes don't really carry the same risk factor. Poorer manufacturing and finish might yield a product with lower quality and continuity (ability to carry current) but it doesn't pose an actual safety risk.... only possibly (and not always) a diminished enjoyment factor.
 

Steam Powered

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That is an opinion not me trashing the clone market. Seriously. If you are going to use an example, I am sure I posted better examples. Because that in no way is me trashing the clone market. Now if I said, "the clones need to be banned and removed because they cost people money and are garbage devices and dangerous!." that would have been a trashing opinion.
Let me get this straight....So when you said earlier that -"there has yet to be a clone made(in my experience) that performs as well or better in every test you throw at it. There are always things wrong with clones."- Then your not trashing the clone market? All righty then. o_O
 

VaporJoe

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A fake is NOT a clone, it is COUNTERFEIT....

It would be if they had a patent on something.. but they dont.. why? BECAUSE YOU CANT PATENT A TUBE! Rofl
 

Trauma Vapes

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To be fair, you've had plenty of good points throughout this discussion, but this isn't one of them. I don't actually care about knock-off batteries *IF* they perform to spec. Sadly, too many of the knock-offs don't and while they are being sold with impressive ratings, they aren't safe to operate at those specs. That becomes a safety issue, when someone believes that a battery can produce a given continuous output safely, but it actually performs much lower. Metal tubes don't really carry the same risk factor. Poorer manufacturing and finish might yield a product with lower quality and continuity (ability to carry current) but it doesn't pose an actual safety risk.... but only possibly (and not always) a diminished enjoyment factor.

I completely agree. The batts are not safe. But there is no way to say infinite clone A versus Hcigar clone B is safe either.
 

Trauma Vapes

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Let me get this straight....So when you said earlier that -"there has yet to be a clone made(in my experience) that performs as well or better in every test you throw at it. There are always things wrong with clones."- Then your not trashing the clone market? All righty then. o_O

That is right. That was me commenting on my experience. Trashing the clones I had. Not the entire market. English truly is a simple language.
 

cherrycakes

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Why not... it defines how enthusiastic and passionate you are about other hobbies. Everyone is complaining about cost of authentics and seem to think they all cost 20 bucks to make. ....


um no
most hobbies are defined by how much time you spend on them
not how much money you waste/spend on materials.

Example: Granny knits all day long. She has been knitting her whole life.
She is an enthusiastic, passionate knitter.

NOT

Granny spends $40 a day on overpriced yarn but never actually knits anything.
She is an enthusiastic, passionate shopper


Unless of course the hobby is shopping or being a consumer in which case, sure try to outspend everyone.

OR
Example:
Carolyn loves cats. She spends her free time volunteering at the local no kill shelter.

Not: Carolyn owns the most expensive cat known to man. She is actually allergic and doesn't let the cat out of the cage
 

TygerTyger

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I completely agree. The batts are not safe. But there is no way to say infinite clone A versus Hcigar clone B is safe either.

They're metal tubes..... METAL TUBES..... Just like authentics. I guess none of them are especially safe if misused, altered in unadvisable ways, dropped on your toe, or hurled at your head. Let's not forget that the first mechanical innovators were using nothing more complicated or sophisticated than plumbing and hardware findings. What's changed?? Fit, finish, cake decorating..... and price.

I'm not against authentics. I think people are free to spend their money however, and on whatever pleases them most. I don't however see any merit in arguments that involve irrelevant comparisons (to batteries that don't perform to spec and thus are dangerous) or that protect modders from copycats ripping off ripped-off logos. If you want to protect a logo, license, purchase or design it yourself.... protect it accordingly.... and I'll support your sole right to use it all day long. But don't search the web for royalty free, easy to etch images and then cry "FOUL!" when someone else uses it as well.
 

Trauma Vapes

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They're metal tubes..... METAL TUBES..... Just like authentics. I guess none of them are especially safe if misused, altered in unadvisable ways, dropped on your toe, or hurled at your head. Let's not forget that the first mechanical innovators were using nothing more complicated or sophisticated than plumbing and hardware findings. What's changed?? Fit, finish, cake decorating..... and price.

I'm not against authentics. I think people are free to spend their money however, and on whatever pleases them most. I don't however see any merit in arguments that involve irrelevant comparisons (to batteries that don't perform to spec and thus are dangerous) or that protect modders from copycats ripping off ripped-off logos. If you want to protect a logo, license, purchase or design it yourself.... protect it accordingly.... and I'll support your sole right to use it all day long. But don't search the web for royalty free, easy to etch images and then cry "FOUL!" when someone else uses it as well.

Well put.
 

MikeL

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No that is the exact same thing. The fakes have the same build, same cells, same electrolytes. Someone printed sony vtc5 on them and sold them as sony. That is what clone makers do. But people have said they are not counterfeit. Clones and these fake batteries are the same thing. By definition they are the same things.
Wrong Wrong Wrong! A clone is an item built to spec and sold as a "same as". A fake or counterfeit is one that pretends to be real when it is NOT. They may or may not be to spec, that is NOT the issue. The fact they represent themselves as a brand name ie, SONY makes them illegal. Tell the Feds that the money you printed is just a clone and not fake or counterfeit and see how that flys.
 

Spike64

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A fake is NOT a clone, it is COUNTERFEIT....
Some folks are very loose and fancy free with the term "counterfeit"...there are clones, replicas, and then their are counterfeits...they are distinctly different things.... a clone is a similar copy of an original...a replica is an attempt at being 1:1 with the original, right down to the logo and other markings while still being marketed as NOT being an authentic item....no one is trying to fool anyone....a counterfeit is being purposely marketed and sold as an authentic to unwitting buyers by unscrupulous sellers, right down to the price point...geesh!
 

Trauma Vapes

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No clone is exactly to spec either. logos are different size or in a different place lock rings are larger or smaller. There is no 1:1 clone that is truly 1:1 and they do that on purpose.
 

Spike64

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Wrong Wrong Wrong! A clone is an item built to spec and sold as a "same as". A fake or counterfeit is one that pretends to be real when it is NOT. They may or may not be to spec, that is NOT the issue. The fact they represent themselves as a brand name ie, SONY makes them illegal. Tell the Feds that the money you printed is just a clone and not fake or counterfeit and see how that flys.
The difference in counterfeiting money is that it IS an attempt to pass it off as authentic...mod replica makers aren't doing that....they sell them as clones or replicas at a much lower price point.
 

MikeL

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It would be if they had a patent on something.. but they dont.. why? BECAUSE YOU CANT PATENT A TUBE! Rofl
Really? You cannot patent a tube? Tell that to the oil industry and the hold Hughes Tool had for over a half a century on the industry. Just a tube used by the thousands to drill for oil and the only ones that could be used on the Hughes drill head were patented by Hughes. Or how about the patented tubes used in BMW fuel systems, the list is endless. Its called a Utility Patent, Issued for the invention of a new and useful process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter, or a new and useful improvement thereof, it generally permits its owner to exclude others from making, using, or selling the invention for a period of up to twenty years from the date of patent application filing ++, subject to the payment of maintenance fees. Approximately 90% of the patent documents issued by the USPTO in recent years have been utility patents, also referred to as "patents for invention". If you are gong to mke statements of fact, make sure they are correct.
 

kelli

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You remind of the the guy at the Free Clinic when asked why he was there, replied, "This guy on the corner said his 20 dollar whore was just the same as the 400.00 and hour call girl the hotel bell man recommended. "

:p
 
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Roger Schaeffer

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Can't find a thread on this issue over in ECF?
 

kelli

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i apologize to mikeL. mistook him for someone else. im_sorry.gif
 

Nailz

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Good to see everyone playing nice still in here :)

Having a good read and vaping with my $200 heimdall mod, oh hang on it was a clone and only cost me $25 and I LOVE it, one of my most used mods and looks awesome ;)
 

biglenny1211

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I have the authentic, clone and the FUhattan. Authhentic is best followed closely by the fuhattan. clone can not compare.
I'm going to have call bullshit on this one, Twisted did a review on the Authentic Manhattan and FUhattan and Clone the FUhattan had less of a voltage drop and performed better than the authentic. Go watch his youtube video for your self bro.......
 

biglenny1211

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You can not even expand on that statement because it lacks merit and substance. Stop being mad just because someone half your age put you in your place. Turn off your computer and open up your favorite issue of Highlights and grab the lubriderm.
I'm with Celtic Fog on this one, How can you have a avatar that says "combat clones" than say you own clones, Your straddling the fence bro....;) No problem with owning clones but don't be a hypocrite about it....
 

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