ECC BANS ALL CLONES FROM BEING SOLD

[Trauma Vapes]

Then you got a deal on the egos. I went searching in 09 and wouldn't pay the crazy assed prices that they wanted. VJ is correct in his statement. So who's spreading the lies?

Then you did not know how to shop. I never saw an ego kit in 09 or 2010 for more than 95 USD. They are not that costly now. Nor will they be if people buy them more.

 

[Roger Schaeffer]

This debate is great. The Authentic $$$ defenders[with Your version of whats moral=prohibitionist] Can argue this until the proverbial Hell Freezes Over and its to late American Vapers have spoke with their wallet. You will Never put the Genie back in the Box. IMO on a thread like this this every Vaper you win over you lose 2 to the clone side with Morality Arguments

 

[Trauma Vapes]

Wow. So you seem fairly apathetic to those of us whom may not be lucky enough to possess a disposable income with which they can squander on the latest and greatest metal tube every month for hundreds of dollars. Just because you may come from a privileged upbringing and therefore bare outlooks muddled with upper-middle class apathy or ignorance, doesn't mean there aren't those out there who were born into socio-economic conditions that are unbelievably arduous to overcome, leaving "luxury" vaping gear the last thing on the list that their money is going towards. You'll find when you have to scrounge and skip meals every month just to scrape the rent money together, the darnedest thing seems to happen and magically your outlook on the acceptability of purchasing clones suddenly becomes much more forgiving.

What about people like me that earned their upper middle class status by working hard and earning a degree I paid for and working towards my goals? Am I apathetic to you as well? I fought for what I have. So I will spend however much I want on my hobby. I do not think clone owners are horrible people or misguided. I do not feel they are the ones doing wrong. But I get called stupid and an elitist because of what I buy. Hmm... sounds like a good ol' fashioned D.C. dip and twirl to me.

 

[Steam Powered]

Before this topic cools off I want to weigh in on the clone logos part of the discussion myself. Clones are great and I use them. But I don't like the logo rip off either. Saw a friend the other day vaping. I said "Nice! A real Stingray, I've not seen one of those yet." He say's "Naaa, it's a clone. I wish it didn't have that logo on it, it makes me feel like a liar." Props to my bud for honesty. Clones are ok but they should be blank or have something else inscribed on them.

 

[Whiskey]

@ Doug, ROFLMAO, glad I could assist with that

 

[JustBlowinSteam]

Unfortunately many of the mod makers are also working with China. Making money on both sides....
A lot of Authentics are made in china too.. how do you think they get cloned BEFORE they hit the market? Magic?

The point is that these are SUPPOSE to be to help ya get off cigarettes. New folks are gonna walk in and walk out thinking " Hell, I'll just go buy some cartons of cigs if this new thing will cost me $2-300 and then I gotta wait how long to get my new ciggie thing???" That is just pure stupidity!! The ass that got all butt-hurt about his item being cloned and sued is not at all part of the "Vaping Community"!!!! Just another egomaniac trying to line his pockets!!! It's bad enough we have to fight the FDA, Big Cig Industry, Politics...the list goes on, but now we gotta fight our so called brethren! RIDICULOUS!!!

 

[JustBlowinSteam]

Before this topic cools off I want to weigh in on the clone logos part of the discussion myself. Clones are great and I use them. But I don't like the logo rip off either. Saw a friend the other day vaping. I said "Nice! A real Stingray, I've not seen one of those yet." He say's "Naaa, it's a clone. I wish it didn't have that logo on it, it makes me feel like a liar." Props to my bud for honesty. Clones are ok but they should be blank or have something else inscribed on them.

That can be remedied with a patent if it's something the creator doesn't like....

 

[Trauma Vapes]

Who made you the judge and jury of the vaping world? This isn't Lion King, you're not Simba, and everything the light touches is NOT your kingdom. Seriously bro, reality check, how do you know whether they are a hobbyist or not, what because you read a few lines they typed online? Seems to me, if anything, what vaping is NOT about is elitism, exclusivity, and adolescent cliquish delineation where what you can afford defines how enthusiastic and passionate you are about vaping

Why not... it defines how enthusiastic and passionate you are about other hobbies. Everyone is complaining about cost of authentics and seem to think they all cost 20 bucks to make. Well thats just not true. And I am not an elitist for wanting to buy authentics and thinking clones should not have labels. I do not think clones should be banned. That is just stupid and would hurt the community more than help it. That is what I think people are getting wrong about me. I am all for clones being sold. You can in fact be a hobbyist with clones. I never said anything to the contrary. I stated in a response to people complaining about the cost of authentics. Stop bickering about the cost of authentics and remove the labels and logos from clones and vape on!

 

[Dougw63]

What about people like me that earned their upper middle class status by working hard and earning a degree I paid for and working towards my goals? Am I apathetic to you as well? I fought for what I have. So I will spend however much I want on my hobby. I do not think clone owners are horrible people or misguided. I do not feel they are the ones doing wrong. But I get called stupid and an elitist because of what I buy. Hmm... sounds like a good ol' fashioned D.C. dip and twirl to me.

LOL! oh look now it's the "look at poor picked on me" attitude. I never called you an elitist because of what you can buy. I called you an elitist because your attitude sucks and you seem to think that everyone can reach their goals. Do me a favor will ya, go preach that in HUD or the inner city slums and turn hundreds of lives around! Some call goals dreams and some call dreams goals and some are "broken" cuz neither is reachable due to circumstances beyond their control! I've not reached all my goals but I damn sure didn't forget where I came from! Did you?

 

[Zamazam]

So then if you do or don't like clones is not really the debate. It's the fact that ECC pulled a fast one taking the $ for tables and then making a radical rule change last minute. That's a rip off. Sounds like they need some new leadership over there.

I used to work for a commercial bakery equipment wholesaler. At one trade show the organizers made the last minute decision to not allow Japanese/Chinese manufactured bakery equipment on the trade floor in order to showcase American made equipment. The organizers got their tits sued off because each vendor/wholesaler paid $12000.00 for booth space, most of the vendors carried multiple brands of equipment with a sizable line of Japanese/Chinese equipment. The organizers of the trade show filed bankruptcy the day after the show.

 

[vapingunited]

What about people like me that earned their upper middle class status by working hard and earning a degree I paid for and working towards my goals? Am I apathetic to you as well? I fought for what I have. So I will spend however much I want on my hobby. I do not think clone owners are horrible people or misguided. I do not feel they are the ones doing wrong. But I get called stupid and an elitist because of what I buy. Hmm... sounds like a good ol' fashioned D.C. dip and twirl to me.

I certainly don't think you're stupid or an elitist for buying authentics. I buy mostly authentics myself, but it's because I can afford to. I have absolutely no problem with people purchasing cheaper versions. I have issue with the logos and any patent infringements, but I support both authentic designs and the cheaper versions of those authentic designs.

If I were to believe you were an ~elitist~ (not saying I do) it would be because of how you constantly toss around _your_ degree and _your_ accomplishments with no regard or thought to the fact that others on here may not have been presented with the same opportunities as you or even the same opportunities to "fight" for what you've had the opportunity to fight for. Some on here are from other countries where the American designed devices never make it to, and if they do, they're even more rare and expensive. Your situation is specific to you. To each their own...

 

[fuzzyone]

I know it may be the wrong place but can someone tell me the backstory of this "other place" that you fine people keep making reference to? BTW I love this forun

Just google electronic cigarette forum and see what pops up. They forum they are referring too will be the first on the list.

 

[Trauma Vapes]

Silly answers you mean. Simply because they are the coordinators of an event, does not give them any rights to restrain trade, unless that trade is provably violating applicable laws or outside of the scope of the event (which it clearly is not). Violating copyrights and trademarks is another one to enforce on such a small level such as an event as well because since the Lanham Act, decided by the Federal Government in 1946 and the most common cited source of trademark protection today is a federal law, which basically means calling the local police isn't going to do much good and unless it's been in planning for the last 6-12 months, I highly doubt the feds are breaking down any doors for trademark violations today.

Having said that, I am a very strong supporter of no logos being used when creating a product based on another's design, however, I am in favor of making those designs more accessible through an open market system like ours currently is.

The show coordinators are allowed to allow or disallow anything in a venue they have rented. Enough said.

 

[Whiskey]

Why not... it defines how enthusiastic and passionate you are about other hobbies. Everyone is complaining about cost of authentics and seem to think they all cost 20 bucks to make. Well thats just not true. And I am not an elitist for wanting to buy authentics and thinking clones should not have labels. I do not think clones should be banned. That is just stupid and would hurt the community more than help it. That is what I think people are getting wrong about me. I am all for clones being sold. You can in fact be a hobbyist with clones. I never said anything to the contrary. I stated in a response to people complaining about the cost of authentics. Stop bickering about the cost of authentics and remove the labels and logos from clones and vape on!

For all the time and energy your spending mouthing off here, why don't you take your cause right over to every supplier that offers clones up for sale then come back here and tell us all how good you made out with that ok?? Cause I have heard you do nothing but repeat your jargon and its getting mighty boring at this point.

 

[Steam Powered]

I get called stupid and an elitist because of what I buy. Hmm... sounds like a good ol' fashioned D.C. dip and twirl to me.

The reason you get called an elitist is not because of what you buy. Buy what you want it's a free country. It's because you trash the clone market. Hell you've even got "Original" and "combat clones" on your avatar. Get real..that's the elitist B.S. coming out in you. I own an original Hades myself but I don't run around trashing clones. Your the one doing the DC dip and twirl.

 

[Trauma Vapes]

I certainly don't think you're stupid or an elitist for buying authentics. I buy mostly authentics myself, but it's because I can afford to. I have absolutely no problem with people purchasing cheaper versions. I have issue with the logos and any patent infringements, but I support both authentic designs and the cheaper versions of those authentic designs.

If I were to believe you were an ~elitist~ (not saying I do) it would be because of how you constantly toss around _your_ degree and _your_ accomplishments with no regard or thought to the fact that others on here may not have been presented with the same opportunities as you or even the same opportunities to "fight" for what you've had the opportunity to fight for. Some on here are from other countries where the American designed devices never make it to, and if they do, they're even more rare and expensive. Your situation is specific to you. To each their own...

I can fully understand and appreciate that. I have struggled my entire life to not come off as a dick with a better than attitude. I know I can come off that way from time to time. It is honestly not my intention. I do apologize to this forum for coming off this way. I do like Joe and his site. It helps people live and I love that. Clones do the same. I am happy about that. And that is why I am not against clones. I do agree a lot of authentics are over priced. I do feel ECF is a group of elitists fucks. I have an account here and not there lol. So maybe someday we will rejoin as a community and not worry about clouders or misfitz or clones and authentics.

 

[vapingunited]

The show coordinators are allowed to allow or disallow anything in a venue they have rented. Enough said.

That's ABSOLUTELY false. They may have rented and organized the event, but the vendors have also paid for the event, wherein, at the time of signing, had absolutely no limitation on the sale of "clones" or "replicas", thereby making your statement both absurd and completely wrong. Not to mention the potential for Restraint of Trade litigation should they forcibly attempt to stop someone from selling them, which they HAVE NOT done, most likely because of the points I just made above.

 

[Retro68]

I certainly don't think you're stupid or an elitist for buying authentics. I buy mostly authentics myself, but it's because I can afford to. I have absolutely no problem with people purchasing cheaper versions. I have issue with the logos and any patent infringements, but I support both authentic designs and the cheaper versions of those authentic designs.

If I were to believe you were an ~elitist~ (not saying I do) it would be because of how you constantly toss around _your_ degree and _your_ accomplishments with no regard or thought to the fact that others on here may not have been presented with the same opportunities as you or even the same opportunities to "fight" for what you've had the opportunity to fight for. Some on here are from other countries where the American designed devices never make it to, and if they do, they're even more rare and expensive. Your situation is specific to you. To each their own...

+100 likes for that, too bad you can only give 1 like -_-

 

[Trauma Vapes]

For all the time and energy your spending mouthing off here, why don't you take your cause right over to every supplier that offers clones up for sale then come back here and tell us all how good you made out with that ok?? Cause I have heard you do nothing but repeat your jargon and its getting mighty boring at this point.

There is a great red x you can click.

The reason you get called an elitist is not because of what you buy. Buy what you want it's a free country. It's because you trash the clone market. Hell you've even got "Original" and "combat clones" on your avatar. Get real..that's the elitist B.S. coming out in you. I own an original Hades myself but I don't run around trashing clones.

I never trashed clones. I trashed labels and logos on clones.

 

[Ellipsis]

What about people like me that earned their upper middle class status by working hard and earning a degree I paid for and working towards my goals? Am I apathetic to you as well? I fought for what I have. So I will spe

 

[Trauma Vapes]

That's ABSOLUTELY false. They may have rented and organized the event, but the vendors have also paid for the event, wherein, at the time of signing, had absolutely no limitation on the sale of "clones" or "replicas", thereby making your statement both absurd and completely wrong. Not to mention the potential for Restraint of Trade litigation should they forcibly attempt to stop someone from selling them, which they HAVE NOT done, most likely because of the points I just made above.

There-in lies the issue. If it was in the fine print they are good to go. If it was not in the fine print then sell whatever you want.

 

[Whiskey]

LOL, Little dick.........Lets go....

 

[VaporJoe]

Then you did not know how to shop. I never saw an ego kit in 09 or 2010 for more than 95 USD. They are not that costly now. Nor will they be if people buy them more.

I paid $110.00 for my ego-T kit back in 2011 from Vaporkings.

 

[Trauma Vapes]

I paid $110.00 for my ego-T kit back in 2011 from Vaporkings.

over paid. I used vaporkings for years for 510 bridged atomizers and thats it. Because they were over pricing everything else.

 

[Trauma Vapes]

LOL, Little dick.........Lets go....

Want to dance?

 

[Spike64]

I do like Joe and his site. It helps people live and I love that. Clones do the same. I am happy about that. And that is why I am not against clones. I do agree a lot of authentics are over priced. I do feel ECF is a group of elitists fucks. I have an account here and not there lol. So maybe someday we will rejoin as a community and not worry about clouders or misfitz or clones and authentics.

Your avatar as well as your Facebook page are a direct contradiction to your statement...

 

[Trauma Vapes]

Your avatar as well as your Facebook page are a direct contradiction to your statement...

The image is generic. Here I will go edit it to mention logos on clones.

 

[Whiskey]

Want to dance?

You asking? Because this ain't my first rodeo my friend.

 

[Trauma Vapes]

You asking? Because this ain't my first rodeo my friend.

Pick the music and I will wear my platforms. Something from the 70's please.

 

[Spike64]

The image is generic. Here I will go edit it to mention logos on clones.

Are you going to also edit the content of your FB page as well?

 

[Kemosabe]

We defiantly disagree on the topic of this thread, but that retort was some funny shit right there.

Same. I agree more with Celtic that's for sure but damn if that boys life thing wasn't hilarious.

 

[Whiskey]

Pick the music and I will wear my platforms. Something from the 70's please.

PPAALEEESE I'll loose my supper

 

[Trauma Vapes]

Are you going to also edit the content of your FB page as well?

I have nothing on my page to remove. I am tagged in a lot of pics by chinese vendors. Those are not my pics.

 

[vapingunited]

Here's a serious problem. I just saw a petition that was created to restrict the sale of clones at ECC. The petition cites the unfortunate incident that happened at a previous show and they go on to blame that incident on the fact that the clone caused the failure. No mention of perhaps a faulty battery and no mention of the fact that perhaps the person was vaping at a ridiculously unsafe resistance, just the mention of the clone.

It's things like this that hurt the community far more than a clone manufacturer ever could. Drawing conclusions with no investigation, no discovery, and no discussion, and then demanding regulation based on their own personal agendas. This person shouldn't be filing a petition, they should be running for office...they'd fit right in with the rest of the politicians!

The petition was --> http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ban-clones-at-ecc-electronic-cigarette

 

[Trauma Vapes]

Here's a serious problem. I just saw a petition that was created to restrict the sale of clones at ECC. The petition cites the unfortunate incident that happened at a previous show and they go on to blame that incident on the fact that the clone caused the failure. No mention of perhaps a faulty battery and no mention of the fact that perhaps the person was vaping at a ridiculously unsafe resistance, just the mention of the clone.

It's things like this that hurt the community far more than a clone manufacturer ever could. Drawing conclusions with no investigation, no discovery, and no discussion, and then demanding regulation based on their own personal agendas. This person shouldn't be filing a petition, they should be running for office...they'd fit right in with the rest of the politicians!

The petition was --> http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ban-clones-at-ecc-electronic-cigarette

Yea that is not really good enough reasoning to create that petition. That was an actual elitist.

 

[MikeL]

This just really shows how badly this "convention" was conceived and executed, reminds you of the Keystone Cops. The issue should have been resolved before any money was collected from the vendors and the term "clone" defined. IF and I say IF a product is patented or a name is copyright protected there are NO clones, only rip offs and should be seized by the FBI, they same way they do clothing, purses, music, movies or software. IF however neither of these two things are in play and an item is a copy aka clone and does not attempt to say it is a "Brand Name' then it is a clone or a generic device like any other "same as" product. No different than Tylenol and its "clone" following a manufacture can say "same as" but never use the name. This is the same battle fought 40 years ago by IBM and clone PC's and we all know how that has turned out. Its up to the consumer on which they want to purchase and up to the event organizer to make sure that the law is not willfully broken. Other than that, what is the real issue here except poor planning and leadership among the organizers? For news and updates you can visit VapeNews izOnline .

 

[Steam Powered]

I never trashed clones. I trashed labels and logos on clones.

But since people want to whine and complain about, "how over-priced authentics are," they get clones. Complete rip offs of intellectual property and hard work. And furthermore... there has yet to be a clone made(in my experience) that performs as well or better in every test you throw at it. There are always things wrong with clones.

You don't trash the clone market? Since when...yesterday?

 

[Spike64]

I have nothing on my page to remove. I am tagged in a lot of pics by chinese vendors. Those are not my pics.

Well, that may be true, but the intent of your page is crystal clear...and it still contradicts your prior statement...it is what it is....

 

[Spike64]

You don't trash the clone market? Since when...yesterday?

He was pretty clear in his postings...suddenly, its all different!...lol

 

[Trauma Vapes]

You don't trash the clone market? Since when...yesterday?

That is an opinion not me trashing the clone market. Seriously. If you are going to use an example, I am sure I posted better examples. Because that in no way is me trashing the clone market. Now if I said, "the clones need to be banned and removed because they cost people money and are garbage devices and dangerous!." that would have been a trashing opinion.

 

[Dougw63]

Maybe most of you don't give a rats' - - -! Really doesn't matter to me. When I first saw this thread this morning I was all about reading it for fun, then a few in here inadvertently showed their ass or may have done so on purpose. Doesn't matter. I decided then and there I wasn't gong to stand for the "holier than thou" bullcrap. I never have and never will. So I made some points, some obviously and some not so obviously. If someone can make it just as well, if not better, and cheaper (and safe!) than that's the direction I'll go.

If ya need validation or a reality check then share your views in public and not just with friends. Friends will KYA or hide their heads; strangers will shove bullshit aside and tell ya like it is.

Never forget where ya came from, odds are you'll be back soon enough if ya do.
or
I'm trying to see things from your point of view; I just can't get my head that far UP my ass!

 

[TygerTyger]

What is a counterfeit logo? Nemesis, Chi-You, and King mods are STOLEN logos.

I'm all for logo-less clones. However, the whole idea of original logos is a bit faulty...... @VaporJoes already shared the Nemesis.... I offer these:

Oh look! Chi You! Featured on a Tshirt worn by diCaprio in the 2000 movie, "The Beach"..... well before the Chi You came out. No doubt the image is older than that and quite possibly royalty-free. Fair game in my book.

And what have we here? The King Mod logo? Where does it originate? http://www.ipaustralia.com.au/applicant/got-shades-inc/trademarks/1479922/
"LION HEAD WEARS CROWN with trademark number 1479922 was lodged on 06/01/2012 and has a status of Registered/Protected. The applicant/owner of the trademark is registered as Got Shades, Inc.. They used the trademark attorney firm Refer to WIPO Address for Correspondence to file this trademark."
Now I could be mistaken, but I don't believe that 'Got Shades Inc.' produces the King Mod, so.... once again..... who's ripping off logos?

Not everyone will appreciate the source, but you can't fault the logic in the following quote:
"What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun." -King Solomon from Ecclesiastes 1:9

 

[Trauma Vapes]

Also... you guys use examples of things that are not even relevant. Toyota was paid by GM to provide them with a vehicle that was cheap and cost efficient. They were paid to make them a device. Not gm copying the Corolla. Toyota made it for them and it sold very very well. So it is a bad example. I know because I had a 94 geo prism and loved that little piece of crap lol.

 

[Whiskey]

Maybe most of you don't give a rats' - - -! Really doesn't matter to me. When I first saw this thread this morning I was all about reading it for fun, then a few in here inadvertently showed their ass or may have done so on purpose. Doesn't matter. I decided then and there I wasn't gong to stand for the "holier than thou" bullcrap. I never have and never will. So I made some points, some obviously and some not so obviously. If someone can make it just as well, if not better, and cheaper (and safe!) than that's the direction I'll go.

If ya need validation or a reality check then share your views in public and not just with friends. Friends will KYA or hide their heads; strangers will shove bullshit aside and tell ya like it is.

Never forget where ya came from, odds are you'll be back soon enough if ya do.
or
I'm trying to see things from your point of view; I just can't get my head that far UP my ass!

See this is the time where we all talk and agree with each other and force the troll out of the conversation, and I agree with your post 100%

 

[Fishee]

 

[Dougw63]

Definition of CLONE

: one that appears to be a copy of an original form :duplicate<a clone of a personal computer>

1. <the car is a clone under a different brand name—it's even manufactured in the same plant as its cousin>

source - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/clone

 

[TygerTyger]

Now I could be mistaken, but I don't believe that 'Got Shades Inc.' produces the King Mod, so.... once again..... who's ripping off logos?

On second thought, that makes perfect sense, and explains all the sunglasses spam in the facebook groups! Mystery solved! *giggles*

 

[Dougw63]

See this is the time where we all talk and agree with each other and force the troll out of the conversation, and I agree with your post 100%

I agree with your sunglasses, however I don't agree with forcing trolls out. LOL I do enjoy trolls from time to time, don't you? Joe said it, trolls are a sign of how much we've grown.

 

[VaporJoe]

I'm all for logo-less clones. However, the whole idea of original logos is a bit faulty...... @VaporJoes already shared the Nemesis.... I offer these:

Oh look! Chi You! Featured on a Tshirt worn by diCaprio in the 2000 movie, "The Beach"..... well before the Chi You came out. No doubt the image is older than that and quite possibly royalty-free. Fair game in my book.

And what have we here? The King Mod logo? Where does it originate? http://www.ipaustralia.com.au/applicant/got-shades-inc/trademarks/1479922/
"LION HEAD WEARS CROWN with trademark number 1479922 was lodged on 06/01/2012 and has a status of Registered/Protected. The applicant/owner of the trademark is registered as Got Shades, Inc.. They used the trademark attorney firm Refer to WIPO Address for Correspondence to file this trademark."
Now I could be mistaken, but I don't believe that 'Got Shades Inc.' produces the King Mod, so.... once again..... who's ripping off logos?

Not everyone will appreciate the source, but you can't fault the logic in the following quote:
"What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun." -King Solomon from Ecclesiastes 1:9

Good research there lovely

 

[Dougw63]

On second thought, that makes perfect sense, and explains all the sunglasses spam in the facebook groups! Mystery solved! *giggles*

Damnit Tyger now I'm actually ROFL!