FDA REGULATIONS: DON'T PANIC!

[Wanda]

Sorry to be a pain, but does any one know how this will impact on exports of eliquid and and nicotine to other countries? in Australia i have no choice but to import from outside the country (just getting started vaping) us and our newwzealand brothers have set up exports to each other to get round the law, since buying or selling it is illegal in our own countrys but not illegal to export or import for personal use but it is very expensive to get it from NZ for me and can only get 36mg max unflavored and your limited with base options i would rather import from US for cheeper and get mg i want with base i want

 

[Mikhail Naumov]

If it's from the US, the products may never make it out. I'd say for the next two years, you're good even if nothing changes, after that, stuff may be seized before it leaves the US. If it's a US product, the US will govern and regulate it while it's within their borders, so it stands to strike a blow against exports as well. If NOTHING changes, if WORST comes to worst, in around, two years and four months, your American nicotine base may become VERY hard to get. I recommend you go local, European and Chinese for all your needs if the shit hits the fan. Godspeed.

 

[Mikhail Naumov]

I did some additional research on this, well, if the nicotine base is marketed for things OTHER than vapor product use, it could be fine. This is getting into that grey market area but, hell, you might be good. Expect prices to rise though.

There's STILL a chance it could be seized before it leaves US borders though. If the FDA wins (I cringed just typing that) it's basically whatever they THINK COULD BE a tobacco product magically becomes legally deemed as a tobacco product. It's hard to regulate unmarked mail with bottles in it though, and thank god the USPS is as behind on shit as they are. DHL and FedEx don't seem to give a fuck if you mail a pound of using them as long as they get paid, UPS is the vigilant one from what I've read.

 

[Wanda]

Thanks for that. Might have to start stocking up in a few weeks. I so so hope for all of you that your laws dont change and end up like our ones here they are totaly overbord here where i am in western australia its illegal to sell or buy any vaping anything! So i have to get everything shipped,other parts are not so bad they have stores to get gear and non nic juice

 

[Mikhail Naumov]

There's always China.. don't know if I'd trust a chemical shipment from China during a blackout period though. You order nicotine and end up with fucking bird urine or something. Hell even synthetic, lab-made nicotine stands be to deemed as a tobacco product if it relates to vaping at this point. If you write VAPING RULEZ on your wall in sharpie, the FDA says your wall is a tobacco product.

 

[Wanda]

Will keep DHL and fedx in mind from now on

 

[Mikhail Naumov]

I've had shit come from DHL that was not supposed to be able to get through the customs channels it went through, like batteries in unsealed containers and such. So, they really don't seem to care. Discreet shipping will become our savior if the shit hits the fan. Nothing like a plain brown box with nothing but an address on it.

I'd pray USPS is the one carrying it through customs, USPS doesn't even know how to operate half the time and thanks to their budget getting slashed like prices on Black Friday by the government, they are notoriously behind on their methods, equipment and style of operation. So USPS or DHL are the two you want as it's going through the US.

It doesn't matter who has it once it leaves, as long as they get it to you. DHL is your best bet, because not only do they not give a damn (human beings who get paid far less than they should be earning don't care about what's in your mail 95% of the time) but they will see your shipment all the way through, if it leaves the US DHL, it should come to you DHL. No transfer between services bullshit to deal with. DHL is fast, doesn't care about what's in your mail if it's sealed right and isn't too expensive. Never had a DHL shipment problem.

I don't recommend you go E-Packet if you order from China, not unless you don't need your shit for a whole month.

 

[Wanda]

Not to keen on ordering from asia i would more prefer get it from a well trusted source and less likey for customs to go through and take large samples (this happens lots) its a bit like that here now anything that is for adult use is unlawful or regeulated to the teeth. Eg our night clubs have to close befor 12pm now and you will get sent on your way promptly by the lovely police men doing there closeing time rounds

 

[Mikhail Naumov]

US has customs that are worse, US Customs is FUCKING BRUTAL, the reason it takes as long as it does for people in the US to get Chinese shipments that didn't go DHL is BECAUSE of Customs. I don't know what magic channels DHL has, but when I go E-Packet, it takes two weeks to even get to the US, then it sits in customs for a week and a half, then hits the road to me.

DHL it to me, I get it in 5-7 days. It's like they just fly over customs or some shit.

 

[Wanda]

Thanks for that info it was verry helpful i will make sure i use DHL next time i order something. Silly me did my first ever order went with UPSL this explais why is says my package is sill sitting in Texas (still a week later) the lovely venders assured me it is on the way but might take up to 21 days to get to me

 

[nightshard]

The cops are knocking at the door while you tear out your coil, replacing it with a light bulb.
Oh and that bottle? That's just cough syrup.

Vapers will discuss their VW TC box flashlights over at the flashlight forums and the actual flashlight enthusiasts won't understand why they have so many new members

 

[pulsevape]

I think there will always be a market for nicotine products (vaping) and that it won't ever stop, at least not until big pharma has everyone medicated. Nicotine helps people who are bipolar, people who are schizophrenic, people with chronic anxiety disorders, people who are stressed, and people with depression. Part of it is the ritual aspect (the tinkering, and the repetitive movements involved with both vaping and smoking), which is why the patch is such a flop, and part of it is the nicotine itself.

I can't figue out which of those disorders I have.....I think I have all of them...so that would make me schiszopjrnic.....yeah I read that 80% of schizophrenics smoke....

 

[pulsevape]

Not to keen on ordering from asia i would more prefer get it from a well trusted source and less likey for customs to go through and take large samples (this happens lots) its a bit like that here now anything that is for adult use is unlawful or regeulated to the teeth. Eg our night clubs have to close befor 12pm now and you will get sent on your way promptly by the lovely police men doing there closeing time rounds

look at ordering from europe...they make some excellent nicotine .

 

[pulsevape]

Even if shit is grandfathered in, how many companies will just keep making identical shit? Not only would we lose innovation entirely, but they would lose a lot of profit due to dying competition because there is no more innovation, which leads to no competition, which leads to profits tanking. This leads to BIG companies like Innokin and the like being all that's left. Geekvape, The Machinist, Evolv, Yihi, P4U, Sigelei, when they lose, 80% of their market due to no more innovation, they'll stick around for a few years then just drop out because they're in it for the money. Well, Evolv isn't, but, you get my point. When you can't innovate, when you're forced to produce the SAME shit for years, how long can you hold on and still profit in a way that makes it worth it? As much as we'd like to think a lot of our stuff is by vapers for vapers, 90% of it is from people who don't even vape.

I don't know if innovation is such a lynch pin for vapers...what are ciagarettres... a tube of paper stuffed with shredded tobacco. and a filter.....pretty low tech, and really hasn't changed in over a century...I mean Camel, and Marlburough, are still going strong and haven't changed much...Vaping will become more of what it started out to be..an alternative nicotine replacement therapy. It will however cease to be so much of a hobby that it has become.
However with England encouraging it's smokers to vape the way they have the US is going to look real fucking stupid when the English start demonstrating all the health benifits of vaping over smoking...at some point the FDA will have to knuckle under to reality...

 

[Wanda]

For me this is all very new. I want to stop smoking, for my heath and the $ i will save ($24 for a pack of 25 now and going up again in june) I have found something that will work for me,all the ingreadents are well knowen to science and deamed safe for human consumption yet they make it against the law here. (to the extent they can) yet some wack job can toss some crap (sorry for the bad language) in a bucket mix it up put it in a fancy jar and sell it in a heath food shop as a heath suplament and they dont need to have testing on it or even tell you whats in it . Yet this is deamed legal and no one bats an eye it just so happens this was the the reason 4 people from here went in to total liver failure and needed transplants, but still nothing was done, they warend people if your sensitive to so so engreident dont take it. i have come across menny more as well, im sure you have as well it just seams like they realy dont have there piorities in the right place, its almost like they dont want people to give up smoking or is it the people making theses silly laws just want one more aspect of our lives they can control. we have some unbelievable down right stupid laws here. Eg it is illegal to be in possession or transporting 50kg of potatos at one time with out a certified document if you are supected of carrying 50kg potatoes the police have the right to pull you over and surch yor car if you resist you can be taken in for questions

 

[MyMagicMist]

So, again is there any vaping orginzation that has sat down with their lawyers yet and culled through the deeming regs and can give us a clearer picture of what we are up against and what preperations what things we need to buy before the 90 days are up.
Because frankly at this point I wouldn't be surprised at tall if he goverment does crazy shit.

Or has CASSA or anyone else mentioned when we can expect their analysis of the future.

Check it out.

Like I suggested and emailed to asked, China is coming into to bat.

http://www.seviausa.org/ Kanger, Innokin, Aspire, Smok, JoyeTech, CASSA , VTA , AVA

All of them coming together. Then, oh my fracking frackers, even Homeland going after FDA.

This genuinely renews my lost faith in humanity. It also renews the hope that if you act to your highest right and try bearing no one else harm, no matter how little you may be, you can still sway or topple giants. Sometimes you may need to ask for help. I now have renewed hope that asking for help does not always fall on deaf ears.

And yes, that hope, it means fucking worlds to me. I literally would hand over worlds for that hope. That hope is vested in the faith of human potentiality to see its way clear of differences and unite for the better of itself. It is a relief to have such hope. I was not exactly panicked but anxiety indeed did start gripping me.

This and Cole-Bishop are the only things letting me sleep at night.

There you go devil dog! Hoo Rah! Now, let's all get assholes and elbows behind Cole-Bishop. Let some of our leadership more versed in eloquence form us a template letter we may use to send weekly to our representatives. Create it as Open Document format, or Rich Text format so as to be used by everyone capable, print it out and sign it by hand, mail it. Make it a weekly event. I might have mailing Mondays for example. Take it to the FDA, but do so in a way that is peaceful but shows our resolve. Vaping is here to stay, end of discussion.

 

[Jimi D]

US has customs that are worse, US Customs is FUCKING BRUTAL, the reason it takes as long as it does for people in the US to get Chinese shipments that didn't go DHL is BECAUSE of Customs. I don't know what magic channels DHL has, but when I go E-Packet, it takes two weeks to even get to the US, then it sits in customs for a week and a half, then hits the road to me.

DHL it to me, I get it in 5-7 days. It's like they just fly over customs or some shit.

Bullshit. I had to have the FDA review my nic and flavor package from Poland. This was shipped by DHL. I paid for Express shipping. It took almost 2 weeks to be delivered. Had to pay extra fees for the FDA to review it.

 

[pulsevape]

For me this is all very new. I want to stop smoking, for my heath and the $ i will save ($24 for a pack of 25 now and going up again in june) I have found something that will work for me,all the ingreadents are well knowen to science and deamed safe for human consumption yet they make it against the law here. (to the extent they can) yet some wack job can toss some crap (sorry for the bad language) in a bucket mix it up put it in a fancy jar and sell it in a heath food shop as a heath suplament and they dont need to have testing on it or even tell you whats in it . Yet this is deamed legal and no one bats an eye it just so happens this was the the reason 4 people from here went in to total liver failure and needed transplants, but still nothing was done, they warend people if your sensitive to so so engreident dont take it. i have come across menny more as well, im sure you have as well it just seams like they realy dont have there piorities in the right place, its almost like they dont want people to give up smoking or is it the people making theses silly laws just want one more aspect of our lives they can control. we have some unbelievable down right stupid laws here. Eg it is illegal to be in possession or transporting 50kg of potatos at one time with out a certified document if you are supected of carrying 50kg potatoes the police have the right to pull you over and surch yor car if you resist you can be taken in for questions

it's as if they don't want people to give up smoking.........sums it all up...

 

[The Cromwell]

The FDA does not currently have anything to do with nicotine liquid. That will change on August 8.

 

[nightshard]

look at ordering from europe...they make some excellent nicotine .

Chemnovatic for business customers:
https://chemnovatic.com/

Molinshop for normal customers:
http://www.molinshop.com/category/bases-standard

 

[pulsevape]

The FDA does not currently have anything to do with nicotine liquid. That will change on August 8.

what do you mean what changes are coming down the pike on nic base.

 

[pulsevape]

Chemnovatic for business customers:
https://chemnovatic.com/

Molinshop for normal customers:
http://www.molinshop.com/category/bases-standard

chemnovtic is excellent.

 

[Jimi D]

chemnovtic is excellent.

Agreed !

 

[nightshard]

chemnovtic is excellent.

Chemnovatic require that you own a business and supply a reasonable explanation of why you want to buy from them directly and not through their suppliers.
They have 1000, 100, 72, 50 available.

Molinshop is a supplier of Chemnovatic that only deals with 36 or lower.
In fact everything that Molinshop sell, juices, extracts, nic bases, PG and VG is manufactured by Chemnovatic.

 

[Jimi D]

100 mg Chemnovatic here https://happyjuice.eu/fi/nikotiinin...g-pohjat/nikotiinipohja-100ml-vg-100mgml.html

 

[nightshard]

I buy directly from chem but that's good to know.

 

[f1vefour]

Bullshit. I had to have the FDA review my nic and flavor package from Poland. This was shipped by DHL. I paid for Express shipping. It took almost 2 weeks to be delivered. Had to pay extra fees for the FDA to review it.

I'm pretty sure DHL either has their own line in customs or they get some type of priority.

That said I have gotten shipments from a company in South Korea in less than 48 hours multiple times by way of FedEx.

 

[The Cromwell]

what do you mean what changes are coming down the pike on nic base.

On 8-8 nic will become a tobacco product and some states will prohibit online buying of it. CC companies will deny payment for it in many cases.

 

[The Cromwell]

As I understand it neither 2058 or the other amendment in the Agriculture budget bill will stop vape gear from being classified as a tobacco product.
Therefore after 8-8-2016 many states will prohibit the online ordering of vape gear. And CC companies will deny online payment in many cases for such items.

 

[f1vefour]

On 8-8 nic will become a tobacco product and some states will prohibit online buying of it. CC companies will deny payment for it in many cases.

My understanding is currently only Oregon outright bans the online sale of tobacco.

What it boils down to is the vendor must be able to collect taxes for the state you reside in to accept online orders of tobacco and tobacco related products.

So vendors will need to update their software and likely pay a processor of sorts.

What I don't understand is what taxes will be imposed?

Oh and actual age verification, another processing fee.

 

[The Cromwell]

Most cigarettes and smokeless tobacco products may not be mailed domestically or internationally by USPS. Cigars may be shipped internationally unless the country you are shipping to prohibits it.Oct 15, 2015

 

[f1vefour]

Most cigarettes and smokeless tobacco products may not be mailed domestically or internationally by USPS. Cigars may be shipped internationally unless the country you are shipping to prohibits it.Oct 15, 2015

What I said still applies, thanks for the additional information. I guess that's why my moms RYO stuff comes by way of FedEx.

It's a clusterfuck.

 

[The Cromwell]

Washington, Oregon and NY state currently ban online tobacco sales. Those are the first 3 I found. I expect there are more.

edit:
Just found Arkansas, Conn, OH, and MD as well.

found this dated 2008.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18236290

 

[f1vefour]

Washington, Oregon and NY state currently ban online tobacco sales. Those are the first 3 I found. I expect there are more.

edit:
Just found Arkansas, Conn, OH, and MD as well.

found this dated 2008.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18236290

I was just going by a RYO tobacco vendor, they stated Oregon was the only state they wouldn't ship to.

It's important information as vapers in these states won't be able to order vaping products from US based vendors soon.

 

[The Cromwell]

I was just going by a RYO tobacco vendor, they stated Oregon was the only state they wouldn't ship to.

It's important information as vapers in these states won't be able to order vaping products from US based vendors soon.

Nor will vapers from outside those states be able to order vaping products from those states.

And verified proof of age for online tobacco products exist in other states.

After 8-8 the I am over 18 click will no longer work for ordering vape products.
ALL sellers of vaping products will require more age verification than a click.

 

[nightshard]

The problem is that most people just don't care.
People have been told the e-cigs are just as bad as cigarettes.
Non smokers believe it since they don't care enough to check if it's actually true.
Smokers believe it because it gives them an excuse to keep smoking.
So for most people all vapers can go back and become smokers again and it doesn't matter

 

[Mikhail Naumov]

CASAA Says this is a petition worth fucking signing, I think a representative started it, so fucking sign it.

A survey CASAA said to take.

http://nicotinesurveys.org/united-states/us-vapers-survey/

An email CASAA said to send.

http://cqrcengage.com/casaa/app/wri...lEInBJkPqSFqGStMs6jsRUq9OotgMeokeWl1EOZc&lp=0

Here's the petition CASAA said to sign:

http://larrywfaircloth.com/fight-the-fda/fight-the-fda-now/

 

[f1vefour]

Already signed.

 

[Mikhail Naumov]

Okay so, that survey wasn't what I expected, but, there's one part near the end where they offer to pay you to make some sort of fifteen minute Skype call or video about your vaping experience, and tips to help smokers quit. I'll gladly do that, I won't take $20 from them or even $1 to do it though because I feel that's my duty and the duty of every vaper. Community guys, it doesn't matter who the fuck here likes who, it really doesn't, this is a time of doing. When this all blows over, we can tear each other apart.

The survey asks things like, what size bottles do you buy, how much of the bottle you go through a week, how much vaping has improved your health, etc. Pretty important shit.

You know, a week ago, all I felt was fucking, doom. I was, spending my savings on cheap $10 clone RDA's in bulk and all kinds of shit to stock up but, I don't know. It's like a new wind is blowing, let's all be a part of that, it doesn't matter who we are, the only thing we are RIGHT NOW that matters, is that we're all vapers.

 

[Artemis]

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...-llc-files-lawsuit-against-fda-300272069.html

 

[Huckleberried]

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...-llc-files-lawsuit-against-fda-300272069.html

Great find chickie!! YES!!!

 

[Mikhail Naumov]

That's the first lawsuit from a company that I've actually heard of besides Halo, but LA sells like HotCakes so you know they have the money to keep up with that shit.

 

[Artemis]

Great find chickie!! YES!!!

I heard another vendor may have a lawsuit. I'm thinking nicquid or nicvape but lost the posting link.

 

[AmandaD]

I heard another vendor may have a lawsuit. I'm thinking nicquid or nicvape but lost the posting link.

Halo's parent company - Nicopure

 

[Mikhail Naumov]

Is Halo powerful enough to keep up in a lawsuit like that? I know, 2-3 years ago their juice was on top, now I never even see shops or vendors carry their juice, mainly because they're more of a starter juice as most of their flavors are tobacco or menthol based to my knowledge. I KNOW Lost Art has that kind of money.

 

[AmandaD]

Nicopure makes other juice - Halo is just one of their lines. They likely have a much bigger business than LA and have been around a lot longer. And of course they also sell their own equipment.

 

[outwest]

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...-llc-files-lawsuit-against-fda-300272069.html

YaY! Hopefully more mfgs do the same, and each of them gets an injunction that prevent any enforcement until their cases are resolved.

 

[The Cromwell]

Just put i my final order for vape stuff for the next 2 years or so.
Will need some flavors and PG/VG then but that is it.

 

[Mikhail Naumov]

Just put i my final order for vape stuff for the next 2 years or so.
Will need some flavors and PG/VG then but that is it.

That argon gas treated (for the vacuum seal, don't freak out and think you're going to be vaping toxic gas, you won't be, argon gas isn't even toxic but it's not in the mixture) Nude Armor nicotine is what I went with, it has that 'two year extended shelf life', though I'm betting if frozen good enough could last a good bit longer as far as the nicotine content not breaking down too badly, but I doubt flavors and PG/VG will go anywhere. I mean hell, a lot of DIY flavorings are re-branded perfume additions they use for smell, we use it for flavor. Then the whole food market.

I suppose it's good to have it on stock, but Nicotine and RDA's/RTA's are what I stocked hardest, as mods can be easily made plus I just have a feeling it'll be near impossible to stop modder's boards due to the fact they could rebrand them as DC-DC converters for water pumps and a whole hell of a lot more. That's what the OKR/OKL/Raptor boards were being used for before us crazy vapers got a hold of them.

Here's your ideal doomsday nicotine if anyone hasn't heard of it and is interested.

https://www.nudenicotine.com/product/nude-armor-v2-nicotine-base-extended-shelf-life/

 

[f1vefour]

That argon gas treated (for the vacuum seal, don't freak out and think you're going to be vaping toxic gas, you won't be, argon gas isn't even toxic but it's not in the mixture) Nude Armor nicotine is what I went with, it has that 'two year extended shelf life', though I'm betting if frozen good enough could last a good bit longer as far as the nicotine content not breaking down too badly, but I doubt flavors and PG/VG will go anywhere. I mean hell, a lot of DIY flavorings are re-branded perfume additions they use for smell, we use it for flavor. Then the whole food market.

I suppose it's good to have it on stock, but Nicotine and RDA's/RTA's are what I stocked hardest, as mods can be easily made plus I just have a feeling it'll be near impossible to stop modder's boards due to the fact they could rebrand them as DC-DC converters for water pumps and a whole hell of a lot more. That's what the OKR/OKL/Raptor boards were being used for before us crazy vapers got a hold of them.

Here's your ideal doomsday nicotine if anyone hasn't heard of it and is interested.

https://www.nudenicotine.com/product/nude-armor-v2-nicotine-base-extended-shelf-life/

We will always have good ole Rustica