Yeah I was thinking the FDA is taking everything away from us so they can dole out a little freedom back to us as a comprimise and we would be gratefull for the leash they give us....
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FDA REGULATIONS: DON'T PANIC!
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You can what if till the cows come home. But the fact remains that by and large the vast majority of the end consumers out there could not handle pure nic safely.
I can safely handle high explosives but am glad that i cannot buy them. Because if I could lots of people could.
The vast majority of the US public are pretty stupid
Who do you think keeps voting the fine government we have in power?
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I do get the point you're making, but could you continue on after the....please? I'd like to know why an attempt to change the FDA regulations and getting more freedoms after they have already taken everything away is not a good option at the moment? I'm not seeing much chance that we get a "never mind, y'all are doing a good enough job on your own so we'll just butt out."
Rip Tripper has acceped a job with the FDA tobacco enforcement division?
I quoted that from an Australian vaping website. Do you know what the meaning of the word "perhaps" is.
And that is really annoying when someone takes pieces out of my post, out of context, and twists it to suit their own agenda.
But of course you're not. You feel like you are smart enough to tell me what I can and cannot have. Fuck that. That kind of thinking is what make the British "subjects", while for the moment Americans are still "citizens".
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Lately I haven't felt much like a citizen. More like a serf, a peasant -- "you'll do what we say, because we say it. And you'll be happy about it and tell yourself pretty stories about liberty and freedom while we ride roughshod over any attempt at liberty or freedom." To which I also say, fuck that, I'm about sick of ANY gov't being so damn big for its britches.
Vive le revolution!
Andria
Mikhail Naumov
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If you have to appeal to all due respect you show you have no respect even for yourself. It is not kind words and calm tones to understand a house divided does not stand. That is simple logistics. All of us using whatever equipment for whatever kind of vaping, need to act together as one unified house.
That means we do not disparage one another by saying nonsense like "fuck Provape". If you do that then you have the provape folks hanging out to dry. Think they'll bother helping you when you may need it? I doubt it, you chose to not include them in our team, our house.
You've no excuse for such ignorance. You were a Marine? You make me feel ill to see how disgraceful Marines are now. They used to have great minds in the Marines, some of the best tacticians in the world actually. But you can not think about the strategy of uniting as vapers so that we can do something tangible, worthy of an effort? Alright. Un-fuck you because to me you're not worth a fuck. Dismissed!
If you respected yourself, you would realize you've no excuse. Excuses are dead horses, Jarhead, go the fuck around them. You got a shit life? Who doesn't? Who cares? Quit putting others down for attempting to get over the hump we're all facing here. Instead why not why not work to lift others up and over? That is what I am doing here and now in writing this to talk directly to fucking slab of meat between your ears some call a brain.
Do I want you pissed off at me? Sure, if it means that in being your target you stop tearing others down. Is there another way? Yes, I can get you thinking, get you understanding what I'm doing. I am engaging you in a way you do understand, balls and all. See? I don't give a fuck how anyone vapes, as long as they're free to choose to vape.
This shit going on attacks all who choose vaping instead of cigarettes. Does it matter if you're some damn rocket scientist vapor or just some hillbilly from podunk? Nope. All of us are about to get fucked, without lube, or even a reach around. All of us, let that sink in. That means the Provape people, that means the Innokin, the Kanger, The Joytech, the "made it in my shop" people.
By the way Leatherneck, you ought to read War Is A Racket if you've not already. It was written by a damn fine Marine, Major General Smedley Butler. What he writes back in 1935 has become very apparently clear, yesterday. Uncle Sam has sold us all up the shit river, brother. You don't need to accept what I say, go check it out yourself. I would expect no less. My point is we need to unite, not to keep bashing on one another. You seem to want to keep bashing. Again, there is no excuse. If you see an excuse, go around it. I know you can think about how to do that.
Marines are not stupid, at least I thought that until I met you. You show me they are stupid by continuing to bash others, by causing us to divide and be more easily picked off by a stronger enemy. So, wake up devil dog, get your dog face on and let us all join together to growl at these fuckers. Hell, growl at me too if you have to. But don't keep bashing others trying to get us moving to attack a common enemy. Unite! That's our rally for now.
Do we have a plan? Well, if we did would I tell you and risk you telling the enemy? Nope. So do we? No we don't because that is the best plan. If you doubt that, look up how the British S.A.S, S.B.S who became the first commando force during WWII operated. Give you a hint, they never made plans.It kept everything real simple, secure. Nobody knew when, where, how, why, what, who they would strike. They did strike though and to great success. Big aspect to them, they were united.
So, come join our circle here. Leave the center open, we'll fight back to back. We'll not let anyone with a good sword fall. We will carry ourselves, one and all.
The fact you have a problem with me is not my problem. If you think a word of that got to me you're a fool. My way of thinking is not going to change, me saying 'fuck provape' wasn't a bash to provape, I meant it in a way that we don't have to depend on them. You all are so busy taking offense (which cannot be given, by the way, you have to TAKE it) to everything I say to think about what it means. Me being a Marine has NOTHING to do with what I say here, so don't bring up that low blow valor shit. Shove it up you ass, I'm proud of who I am.
because without a very strong push back now,I'm not certain how long of a leash they will give us, it could be pretty short. and the other reason..well the goverment no goverment should be ble to feel safe stealing the freedoms of it's people..if they want them they should know it's going to one big fucking battle.
I recall when personal responsibility was a polital slogan. Never hear it much any more. Everyone is a victim and blameless? Of course we are it is the example our leaders set.
I completely agree. I suppose I didn't stress that the changes should be for what the community wants, and that indeed will require some very powerful pushback. I didn't intend to seem that everyone should lay back and see what happens. Just not panic while the works being done.
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Thanks for the notice. You're right, information only needs to be posted once.
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Not honest, but they might budge, if not doing so would reveal embrassing facts, or an inappropriate money trail. Same goes for the congressmen who have been fighting us every step of the way. Being disingenuous is a two edge sword.
Those who played dirty need further investigation. Nobody dared discuss how tobacco taxes are utilized, and the potentially severe effect of declining smoking revenue. That's where I suspect save the children was founded.
I believe that Halo has hired Covington to represent them, and that they are quite the capable legal team.
Finally, if the FDA thinks we are smoking, they went after those newer and more vulnerable...... if analog smoking is the issue, the FDA sure side-stepped it. Their role is health, not business, and their actions seem half way between inappropriate and fraudulent. There must be some sharp attorneys who vape.
You know what I can't understand is...for those people who think vaping needs to be regulated..why isn't the onus placed on them, why isn't the onus placed on the FDA.
Why not let people VOLUNTARLY submitt their products for FDA approval and if approved the FDA can stamp their product with a little FDA stamp..that way all the people that trust the goverment can buy goverment approved vaping products, and leave the rest of us alone to vape whatever we want approved or unapproved.
Why not let people VOLUNTARLY submitt their products for FDA approval and if approved the FDA can stamp their product with a little FDA stamp..that way all the people that trust the goverment can buy goverment approved vaping products, and leave the rest of us alone to vape whatever we want approved or unapproved.
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look at the drug trade...some of us went through the 60s and 70s and we saw what happened ...the goverment made drugs illegal the result...people still did drugs,but they had to buy them on the streets and the quality was dubious...drugs were being cut with horrible crap sometimes killing people the potency was not verifiable there were no lab reports or lab service offered to drug suppliers, they couldn't advertise to people the quality of their products. because they were illegal people couldn't compare suppliers and warn each other of bad suppliers, they couldn't recommend good suppliers...they outlaw vaping this whole scenario could reappear.
If they only had an eJuice with at least 80VG, I'd do the same.
They do have a new max VG line - but I haven't tried it!If they only had an eJuice with at least 80VG, I'd do the same.
Asking goobermint to let people do stuff VOLUNTARILY is like trying to house-train a fish.
Right, but they still don't seem to divulge what their actual PG/VG ratios are.
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So 20% give or take a percent or two of all Americans are smokers and vapers.
This means even in the very best case scenario 20% of American voters give a shit about this issue.
It is probably more like 10% of all Americans give a shit about this issue.
The FDA is banking on those 80% who are supposedly richer and smarter than smokers to think these regulations are a great idea since it protects THEIR children.
We need to some how communicate to the 80% that do NOT smoke or vape that this will be disastrous to public health.
We need to let these 80% who are supposedly richer and smarter know that blocking vaping only leaves cigarettes so when their kids rebel they will 100% be using the most deadly and addictive tobacco product to look cool because the zero nicotine vaporizer will be banned.
If we can get 55% of American voters to get it then we have a chance.
The A Billion Lives Documentary just opened yesterday in New Zealand.
This will be a good way to get normal people who will hold the FDA accountable for their actions to see the truth.
It should be in theaters in less than 2 months maybe sooner in the United States
So while non smokers, non vapers see this and start wanting to hold the FDA accountable The CASAA, Sfata, AVA, NBS, etc... lawsuit will be happening along with nicopure and this new VTA (Vapor Tobacco Association) that I to not trust as far as I can throw because Big Tobacco is on their board will be seeking litigation.
The FDA should be getting fucked in every orifice every time they turn around from about July on until the Supreme court (Please let it be Judge Leon, Please let it be Judge Leon) settles this for us all
This means even in the very best case scenario 20% of American voters give a shit about this issue.
It is probably more like 10% of all Americans give a shit about this issue.
The FDA is banking on those 80% who are supposedly richer and smarter than smokers to think these regulations are a great idea since it protects THEIR children.
We need to some how communicate to the 80% that do NOT smoke or vape that this will be disastrous to public health.
We need to let these 80% who are supposedly richer and smarter know that blocking vaping only leaves cigarettes so when their kids rebel they will 100% be using the most deadly and addictive tobacco product to look cool because the zero nicotine vaporizer will be banned.
If we can get 55% of American voters to get it then we have a chance.
The A Billion Lives Documentary just opened yesterday in New Zealand.
This will be a good way to get normal people who will hold the FDA accountable for their actions to see the truth.
It should be in theaters in less than 2 months maybe sooner in the United States
So while non smokers, non vapers see this and start wanting to hold the FDA accountable The CASAA, Sfata, AVA, NBS, etc... lawsuit will be happening along with nicopure and this new VTA (Vapor Tobacco Association) that I to not trust as far as I can throw because Big Tobacco is on their board will be seeking litigation.
The FDA should be getting fucked in every orifice every time they turn around from about July on until the Supreme court (Please let it be Judge Leon, Please let it be Judge Leon) settles this for us all
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The "high VG" I saw in the Halo products is 70VG only.
I seen that too...but I'll buy some jooce from them even if I have to throw it out, just to help support their lawsuit.
I have seen a few threads, and know that CASAA did a more controlled survey, asking about nicotine percentages/mg's used by vapers. 99% of those who responded had started at a high percentage 18mg-24mg, and over the course of their vaping had cut down to 3mg-6mg. If vaping was a vehicle for nicotine addiction, seems the numbers would have gone the other way. Those addicted to a substance need more and more over time to achieve the sensation that they desire. A good arrow to have in our Legal Beagles quiver for poking holes in the FDA/Big Tobacco & Pharma propaganda ballons.
I don't think nicotine is the addictive element in smoking so much as the MAOI /WTA...and that you get through smoking not vaping unless you go out and look for it.I think tobacco companies want to keep that under the wraps.because what if you could use nicotine and it wasn't all that addictive....the ANTZ fucks would lose one of their strongest arguments.
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Don't know what MAOI/WTA is, but I think maybe I have a subconscious desire to be a dragon. I like seeing smoke come out of my mouth and nose. I mentioned on another forum that a big part of the appeal of smoking was seeing the smoke, but was roundly shouted down. I've tried vaping in the dark and got no satisfaction or pleasure from it, so for me nicotine is not the main reason. That being said, I have made no-nic eliquid and something was missing, throat hit I think, so have settled out at 3mg.
undoubtedly..smoking and vaping for me are sensual pleasures...the flavor, the plume of smoke or vapor they all add to the pleasure....here this is a brief explanation.
"However, nicotine is not the only compound of tobacco. There are >4000 chemical constituents in tobacco smoke, some of which have psychopharmacological effects and thus may contribute to tobacco dependence. Preclinical and clinical studies have demonstrated that current smokers have lower brain monoamine oxidase A (MAO-A) and MAO-B activity, which normalizes during prolonged abstinence (Berlin et al., 1995; Fowler et al., 1996a,b; Berlin and Anthenelli, 2001). Furthermore, it has been shown that an as yet unidentified component of tobacco smoke (not nicotine) inhibits both MAO-A and MAO-B (Poindexter and Carpenter, 1962; Fowler et al.; 1996a; Rommelspacher et al., 2002), suggesting that non-nicotinic receptor mechanisms may be involved in the psychoactive properties of tobacco.
In addition, it has been shown in several species that nicotine has relatively weak reinforcing properties compared with other addictive drugs"
there are compounds in tobacco smoke that are naturally occuring anti-depressants and maybe the reason why some people smoke 80% of all schizophrences smoke.nicotine is not the major player,in which case suggesting vaping nicotine will be a gateway to smoking is a bullshit argument, also that vaping will be as addictive as smoking is also a bullshit argument...without MAOI in the juice vaping nicotine could wind up to be mildly addictive. To drug dealers like the Tobacco companies having a nicotine therapy that winds up being only mildly addictive as opposed to smoking which is very addictive....could really put a dent in your sales.
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Thanks, good stuff to know.
We will be ok, will have juice like this
Very possible. Altria can afford the costs if there is an ROI. Easy to tax.
We also need to be aware of the enemy within. By that, I mean vapers looking for an excuse to go back to smoking. Biggest difference, have a smoke and you're good for awhile. That's pretty hard to replicate.
I find it interesting that these regs target everything except analogs. I'm sure that's just how BT likes it, but monopolizing vaping has its' benefits too. I don't ever see Altria or RJR acquiring a SMOK or Aspire. Those products are not commodities, and not what they are geared up to manufacture.
Lastly, what were the companies we purchase from doing over the last 2 years, since these FDA regs were proposed? Vaping became much more popular during this time, and that's the real loss for those who really quit BT. I think the Chinese were prepared all along to let us go, and just sell wherever they can.
They already have the VUSE and BLU cloned, and in their stocks.
How on earth did that get FDA approved without a child-resistant cap?We will be ok, will have juice like this
Marketed as a supplement, like a vitamin.How on earth did that get FDA approved without a child-resistant cap?
And, who knows what they added to make you more addicted (without the FDA raising a red flag!), just like they did to analogs.Marketed as a supplement, like a vitamin.
Exactly! Just like the unregulated supplement market, that's been around well before vaping.
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If they want it to be almost as addictive as cigarettes, all they have to add is WTA. It took me 15+ months to wean off that stuff, so it's possible, but it's nearly as difficult as getting off cigarettes -- but a lot easier to titrate!
Andria
Someone posted that their ability to accept credit cards for e-liquid they sale got shutdown today. Something about being in a state that doesn't allow the online sale of tobacco products.
If you live in a state that doesn't allow you to purchase tobacco online you will no longer be able to purchase e-liquid online as of now or soon.
If you live in a state that doesn't allow you to purchase tobacco online you will no longer be able to purchase e-liquid online as of now or soon.
They will try and as far as I'm concerned the FDA will be fully responsible for injury or death. Not that they give a flying F!
Apparently it did, as you felt compelled to respond. Your points are taken though. Think as you will, because you will. I will do the same.
Suppose I'm granted a bit of grace here. All other posts of mine in this particular thread were not editable. I took a little to think more on your response @Mikhail Naumov. What I said resonates with truth. What I am about to say will as well. You were a Marine. I know from being a sailor that members of the United States Armed Forces all undergo training to become soldiers.
Once one becomes a soldier, it is something which remains as part of them. Granted to you vaping may not appear to have any relationship to being a soldier. It so does though on a host of different levels. I will pick one level to keep this simple for all. That is not meant as derogatory. Everyone does not harbor the same levels of comprehension as you, me.
Here is that level. As soldiers we are taught that we have the power of our choices. We are also taught our choices bear consequences. You chose to vape. You choose to continue vaping, I figure as you espoused what seemed much anger over new regulations about vaping.You and I agree here going along so far.
We have both made a choice to continue being vapers. We chose to vape instead of smoking which is unhealthy by many standards. You chose also to seemingly disparage one group of vapers, one manufacture of vaping gear. I read that at face value. "Look, he's being a jerk and saying these other vapers are shit." Yes, perhaps I ought to have considered your meaning differently.
You perhaps ought to have given more consideration to what would seem arrogance on your part. Your statement to me read as highly arrogant, unoriginal, blind and ultimately stupid. I have difficulty in being diplomatic with stupidity. I choose being humble. There are always bigger dogs in the world, smarter ones too. It's enough I make way through living.
Please note my use twice of the word seem. What we read in text is not always what is behind it. I could write the word hat for example and you may think I'm meaning to kill your pet goldfish. Please do be proud of who you are. I'm proud of you too. I'm also proud of myself, despite the humility. Sometimes I amaze the little boy in my self.
So, I apologize for misreading. Which in some ways to me seems odd, but it happens I suppose. Odd in a way that I have been misreading too much of late. I do not mean it odd that I apologize for an honest error on my part. Genuine communication can actually be difficult. They may want to outlaw that instead of vaping.
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I've heard opposing stories about 0 nic eliquid qualifying as a tobacco product. One says it is, one says it isn't. So if the majority of vapers are buying 0 nic juice (nevermind if they end up adding their own nic), then the tanks and the mods they're using can't possibly qualify as a tobacco product IF 0 nic is not considered a tobacco product. Hmm....
I think it says "intended use".... if you intend to use 0 nic in a mod, its a tobacco product.....just like my glove is holding the mod, another tobacco product.....
I see a lot of "paperweights" in our futures.
I see a LOT of lawsuits.......(we hope).
Wonder if I could sue the FDA for mental cruelty? Ah, we could let the U.S. grub mint fight itself as part of the war on terror. They're using terrorist tactics on their own people. Of course, why should that be surprising at this point. Likely they'd say "Your silence is your consent."
My reply, "Non te pedicabo! Tacere non consensi." in English, "Do not fuck yourself! My Silence is not my consent." My silence or lacking of voting is a vote of no confidence. If it were within grasp, I and wife would be moved away and renouncing for all the fuckery going on of late, as in from 2001 onward.
Not sure many Americans realize it or not. The Army has a battalion roaming CONUS ready to dispatch and neutralize anyone deemed insurgent, terrorist. The restriction of the Posse Comitatus Act was suspended and not re-invoked after 9/11/2001. The battalion has free fire orders. This in deed, in action, in word makes America a battlefield.
We see the difficulty in communication on forums, the ease of misunderstanding present. It becomes frightening to think how something could be misconstrued by nervous soldiers, traipsing around the country looking for an unidentifiable 'enemy'. Granted, I also think it shows great professionalism, restraint upon those soldiers so doing that job in that we so far have not needed to bear witness to any such incidents.
You need not believe me, look up Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Terrorists. It is still active and does not specify American soil as out of bounds for actions.
What I found online about states banning all but face to face transactions for tobacco products.
Note this is just as of 2006!
Have no idea what has been added since then.
Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
California
Connecticut
Delaware
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Kansas
Maine
Maryland
Michigan
Minnesota
Missouri
Montana
Nevada
New Jersey
New York
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Oregon
Rhode Island
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Virginia
Washington
West Virginia
Wyoming
Note this is just as of 2006!
Have no idea what has been added since then.
Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
California
Connecticut
Delaware
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Kansas
Maine
Maryland
Michigan
Minnesota
Missouri
Montana
Nevada
New Jersey
New York
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Oregon
Rhode Island
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Virginia
Washington
West Virginia
Wyoming
Because it's not Sour Patch Kids flavor.How on earth did that get FDA approved without a child-resistant cap?
True this is...
AND... by today's corrupt standards, even those who wrote our Constitution would be considered Terrorists.
Or, that is, everyone who doesn't agree with what the Govt. "dictates".
After all they're just trying to protect us from ourselves because we're all so stupid
.Our govt. reps. are like hiring a maid for a 4 year contract and no matter what they do, or don't do, you can't fire them.
Or do much of anything else because they've got way better armor, and way bigger gunz...
Grr, I get way too upset dealing with any politics crap, better quit now before I say something far worse.