ECC BANS ALL CLONES FROM BEING SOLD

[Jake6035]

I waiver back and forth on the clone issue. I think MOST authentic pieces are way overpriced, but the cloners will clone anything they can still make a profit on, including the reasonably priced stuff. Mutation x clone, vulcan clone, IGO clone!!! All I can do is make a decision one item at a time. I have 2 authentics, and another one on the way. I will have paid less than $300 for all three, and have been very happy with them so far. (Colonial, Antigo, and Super T Workhorse)

But I can say this... I will never,ever attend an ECC event. Once it's confirmed who the assholes in the video are, I will never, ever, ever purchase a product from them. If I already own one, I will sell it and buy as many clones as I can get for that money. I really like my 454, but I'm happy to say goodbye to it, and welcome two more clones if that's how they behave.

 

[tombaker]

I am actually in the process of buying a Nemesis Nemi 1:1 Clone w/o logos...will this purchase be a Federal Offense?

No logos, and its just a clone. I can buy a hammer from Snap-On, for 100 bucks, or go to Harbor Frieght and get one that looks very similar, functions almost the same, for 8 bucks. It won't say Snap-On, and they won't give me a genuine SnapOn Pin-Up Calendar either. The nails are still going to go into the wood.

 

[Blakd]

I think thats good they banned clones they are counterfiet products and they are stealing money from hardworking mod makers. Plz dont say price and complaining that they cost too much because in fact mods are a luxury if you cant afford it just save up i hate the fact that people complain that they are too expensive save up or make better career choices. #TeamAuthentic4Life

If there were no clones there would be only a hand full of vapers due to cost. Vaping has become as big as it has, not because of cigalikes, egos or even authentics but because of affordable prices for everyone.

I have a good career with all the regular bills and a child. I think more of her future and less of my luxury. Your argument is invalid

 

[Steam Powered]

The Elitists crack me up. They act like they've come up with some kind of engineering break through.
"Oh look, I made a metal tube that holds a battery!"

 

[tombaker]

Screenshot from the clip.
"Buying clones supports terrorists".
Attitudes like this should be bypassed.
View attachment 5238

Anyone buying anything that this guy sells, is an asshole. No excuse for that T-shirt, and there is nothing to debate.
Is he a vendor, or a MOD maker?

I would support the Boycott X campaign, if anyone has enough info to start the thread

 

[Z3vapor]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301259324010

Pick me! Pick me! Can I be the one to win a real deal mod that I can probably get identical or better at Fasttech or Focalecig for $20-$40 with free shipping?

#1 Way to confuse the idiots in your life.....Ask $1,000 for a flashlight with a stupid logo and serial number.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to get styled mods without logos and serials?

 

[allby]

Wow. So you seem fairly apathetic to those of us whom may not be lucky enough to possess a disposable income with which they can squander on the latest and greatest metal tube every month for hundreds of dollars. Just because you may come from a privileged upbringing and therefore bare outlooks muddled with upper-middle class apathy or ignorance, doesn't mean there aren't those out there who were born into socio-economic conditions that are unbelievably arduous to overcome, leaving "luxury" vaping gear the last thing on the list that their money is going towards. You'll find when you have to scrounge and skip meals every month just to scrape the rent money together, the darnedest thing seems to happen and magically your outlook on the acceptability of purchasing clones suddenly becomes much more forgiving.

Their is no way i could have put that better. Thank you

I agree with you 100%. These devices help a lot of people not everyone has 200 bucks to spend on a metal tube. Specially those on disability. What next?? Meds or Mods?

Thanks Joe that is my dilemma Do i buy meds,food ,pay the rent on my small fixed disability check or drop 2-3 hundred on a mod. Thats not even a choice. as it is i'm borrowing from my kids from check to check when i run short. I'l take the clones thank you very much. and on a side note Thanks for all you do. You have made it possible for me to vape at times with the deals

 

[allby]

They can buy authentic's in their price range. Does a person on disability need a Glas? Do they need the newest and hottest authentics? No. They can buy what they can afford and be giving money to the modders. Live withen your means but do it respectfully. And most of the clone people dont just buy one mod most if not all of them have 10+ setups that are unnecessary just get a nice setup or two.

I'm glad you know whats best for me and how i should spend my money or what i need. like i said on earlier post that all went out the window when you wanted a mech and could not afford one. you were eager to trade for my clone then. Why all the hate now.

 

[Blakd]

As with any business you have to go about things the right way. If you have a product, logo and specific design that no one else is using, copy right it before putting it out there. If on the other hand you do have a copy right and you then produce and sell said object and it gets cloned you have options that will help you out. First thing you do is to contact the manufacture and customs to have all importing of said clone stopped. Next you offer a deal to the cloners: 5, 10 or 20% royalties. If they accept you then contact customs and have the moratorium lifted so that you are still making money on the clones.

 

[KKen]

Fucking funny, this looks real official. So these guys are the voice of the elitist. LMFAO!

 

[Blakd]

Let us take this debate to a different product.

Cellphones.

There are clones of cell phones. But people gladly every day either buy a cheaper authentic product or shell out for the more costly device. Many people save up for months to buy that new Iphone on release day. Why can you not do this if you claim to be a vaper and not just a cessation seeker. Because you still think in terms of a smoker. You hated when you would walk in a store and your smokes were 55 cents higher. You would bitch and complain but still buy them. Well now you do the same thing and china says, "hey here is our version, it is inferior and might explode in your hand easier than the real one, but it is only 25 bucks instead of 175. So you shell out 25 bucks and buy a clone then complain when someone is happy they got the real one.

Like it or not that is in a nutshell exactly how most of the whiners think. Cessationist and non whiners this does not apply to you.

When is the last time you saw a clone of a cell phone being sold by a carrier??????? bet it has been "Never"

 

[TheDishD]

Clones do help save lives, yes i used to spend scary amounts on cigs (a packet of 40's here in Australia are between $33-$42 USD) another reason to stop smoking, i want to spend less on me and more on bills and family why would i then drop 200-300 on a mod plus another 100-140 on an atty and then 40-70/on international shipping, when that same amount (near enough to 450-500) would get me over 6mnths-12mnths of juice,mods and devices(clones)...
Only lately are makers learning that make a decent device and price it fairly and it will sell...


sent via a smartphone with a dumb operator XD

 

[freshness]

Please read this:

You guys, this debate will go on for eternity. I personally don't know where I stand, I own more authentics than clones, and have experienced firsthand the difference in quality between the two. That doesn't mean I don't like to save money here and there, but I'm a jeweler by trade and thus pay extensive attention to fine detail. For me, especially in my trade, quality always comes first.

Now beyond that, even if China can come up to par quality-wise with the originals, let me just tell you something that really really sucks about this whole clone situation. I personally engraved and created the LA and Punisher logo Kayfun chimneys for a shop in SoCal. My engraving machine was 60k, and is the best on the market. It took 3 8-hour work shifts to finish 100 pieces, at $5 bucks a pop cost.

Next thing you know, Joe posted that they had copied the idea (seriously couldn't come up with their own picture to engrave? Literally stole the exact images!)

Now I have a stack of engraved kayfuns that we'll never get my money back on, because FT sells them for 2 bucks, a price that I cannot beat.

Tell me why you guys think this is fair? The same thing is happening to the creator of the Chuff Enuff, us small time guys aren't outsourcing to China like that, were doing it in our own backyard. Now FT sells the Chuff Enuff drip top cap for $2. All of that persons goods and time invested are now completely worthless.

You guys need to understand that 50% of people involved in doing this are not huge booming companies with pockets as deep as the Pacific. it's every day guys like you and me, who come on these boards and want to give the community what they want. But in the end, we all need to make a living.

 

[Whiskey]

Please read this:

You guys, this debate will go on for eternity. I personally don't know where I stand, I own more authentics than clones, and have experienced firsthand the difference in quality between the two. That doesn't mean I don't like to save money here and there, but I'm a jeweler by trade and thus pay extensive attention to fine detail. For me, especially in my trade, quality always comes first.

Now beyond that, even if China can come up to par quality-wise with the originals, let me just tell you something that really really sucks about this whole clone situation. I personally engraved and created the LA and Punisher logo Kayfun chimneys for a shop in SoCal. My engraving machine was 60k, and is the best on the market. It took 3 8-hour work shifts to finish 100 pieces, at $5 bucks a pop cost.

Next thing you know, Joe posted that they had copied the idea (seriously couldn't come up with their own picture to engrave? Literally stole the exact images!)

Now I have a stack of engraved kayfuns that we'll never get my money back on, because FT sells them for 2 bucks, a price that I cannot beat.

Tell me why you guys think this is fair? The same thing is happening to the creator of the Chuff Enuff, us small time guys aren't outsourcing to China like that, were doing it in our own backyard. Now FT sells the Chuff Enuff drip top cap for $2. All of that persons goods and time invested are now completely worthless.

You guys need to understand that 50% of people involved in doing this are not huge booming companies with pockets as deep as the Pacific. it's every day guys like you and me, who come on these boards and want to give the community what they want. But in the end, we all need to make a living.

Better use it to engrave other items then rather than battery holders would be my advice**

 

[allby]

I was unaware 16k a year wasn't below the poverty line

16 k you giving me a raise thanks i could use it. Don't talk about things you have no understanding of.

 

[freshness]

Better use it to engrave other items then rather than battery holders would be my advice**

That is very solid advice, but it deviates completely from the topic at hand. Why don't all mod makers just stop making mods?

....not a solution.

 

[Z3vapor]

Now that I think of it. I was a little harsh with my previous comment. I will "buy now" the $1,300 mod since I already bought a real bridge and a real small island. For real! I will post a link later of me vaping on the bridge next to the island I bought....where I will be hosting a Vape Meet called No Clone Con. I only want real stuff with real logos and real serial numbers because I'm just the real deal. This is not a joke nor is this a test....if you act now, I have an extra bridge, island and authentic mod (I'll throw in for free a VCT5 battery) for the low price of one million dollars. First to Paypal me at [email protected] will also become my BFF. Now how can anyone resist that deal when for a limited time, I will drop the price to two million dollars...Act Now and receive it for the lowest price I can go....three installments of only $999,999.

 

[Whiskey]

That is very solid advice, but it deviates completely from the topic at hand. Why don't all mod makers just stop making mods?

....not a solution.

Deviates?? Topic at hand?? Gotta laugh at that statement!

 

[freshness]

Deviates?? Topic at hand?? Gotta laugh at that statement!

Yes, because I'm asking if you think it's fair and your response is to advise me on how to run my business.

 

[Z3vapor]

No logos, and its just a clone. I can buy a hammer from Snap-On, for 100 bucks, or go to Harbor Frieght and get one that looks very similar, functions almost the same, for 8 bucks. It won't say Snap-On, and they won't give me a genuine SnapOn Pin-Up Calendar either. The nails are still going to go into the wood.

Don't forget the 20% coupon and the free coupon for the LED flashlight, measuring tape, volt meter, screwdriver set, scissors, and magnetic parts dish. So glad to live right next to a HF.

 

[Whiskey]

Yes, because I'm asking if you think it's fair and your response is to advise me on how to run my business.

Sure I do, you posted about it crying, you think no one was going to comment on a 60K engraver owner crying about clones??? Hell yeah, put yourself out there with the sob story and your gonna get feed back, doesn't mean your gonna like what you read Buddy!!

 

[Z3vapor]

Deviates?? Topic at hand?? Gotta laugh at that statement!

Those are some nice shades you got on.

 

[freshness]

Sure I can, you posted about it crying, you think no one was going to comment on a 60K engraver owner crying about clones??? Hell yeah, put yourself out there with the sob story and your gonna get feed back, doesn't mean your gonna like what you read Buddy!!

I was trying to be polite, which clearly isn't working because you are clearly a child and don't know how to conduct yourself in an adult matter.

Again, everything you are saying is irrelevant. The equivalent of me replying to you by saying you have a lopsided rack.

 

[Whiskey]

I was trying to be polite, which clearly isn't working because you are clearly a child and don't know how to conduct yourself in an adult matter.

Again, everything you are saying is irrelevant. The equivalent of me replying to you by saying you have a lopsided rack.

Now there ya go folks, go right out and buy one of this guy's AUTHENTIC engraved mods, careful don't crowd the lines!!!
Remember, you heard him speak here first, he may post a coupon code for 5% off if you tell him you don't own a clone

 

[freshness]

Now there ya go folks, go right out and buy one of this guy's AUTHENTIC engraved mods, careful don't crowd the lines!!!
Remember, you heard him speak here first, he may post a coupon code for 5% off if you tell him you don't own a clone

Not once did I say i'm opposed to clones, in fact, I think they are a necessary evil. Like I said, I was opening the idea up to discussion. I know it's crazy to think that the creators of the nemesis all don't drive 458 Italias and buy girls fake tits every weekend.

It's very important to notate that not all these companies are big, like Hana Modz, many are just average joes who need to feed their family. At what point do you start contributing something valuable to the conversation?

 

[Whiskey]

Not once did I say i'm opposed to clones, in fact, I think they are a necessary evil. Like I said, I was opening the idea up to discussion. I know it's crazy to think that the creators of the nemesis all don't drive 458 Italias and buy girls fake tits every weekend.

It's very important to notate that not all these companies are big, like Hana Modz, many are just average joes who need to feed their family. At what point do you start contributing something valuable to the conversation?

Get off the tits would you?? Seems your more interested in those than doing your own "contributing something valuable to the conversation"

 

[freshness]

Get off the tits would you?? Seems your more interested in those than doing your own "contributing something valuable to the conversation"

Girls with daddy issues do not impress me. All i've done is ask all the right questions, and you've proved it by not being able to back up your opinion or formulate any type of relevant answer.

 

[eso]

I have to agree with
VarosVapor on this one. I also must say that these jack-offs are acting like spoiled children, instead of treating this action as a serious endeavor. The people who make,sell (and over-price) the quality originals should show why you should choose their product over imitation instead of whining at a vender that is willing to sell at just over cost. These morons are an embarrassment. The ecc has every right to to set the guidelines for their meet but as I understand it they waited until after they were paid by the vendor to mention the anti-clone rule. Finally, am I the only one who after watching the video was left feeling like Ijoy was set up? God help us all.

 

[Whiskey]

Girls with daddy issues do not impress me. All i've done is ask all the right questions, and you've proved it by not being able to back up your opinion or formulate any type of relevant answer.

LOL, and you my dear are too easy, go for a ride in your BMW and suck on your "engraved" battery holder, try maybe to come up with some more idea's on what you can do to get use out of that 60K engraver you began posting a sob story about, hell why don't you post a link to the website that sells your masterpieces so we all know who not to buy from in the future,

 

[Whiskey]

I have to agree with
VarosVapor on this one. I also must say that these jack-offs are acting like spoiled children, instead of treating this action as a serious endeavor. The people who make,sell (and over-price) the quality originals should show why you should choose their product over imitation instead of whining at a vender that is willing to sell at just over cost. These morons are an embarrassment. The ecc has every right to to set the guidelines for their meet but as I understand it they waited until after they were paid by the vendor to mention the anti-clone rule. Finally, am I the only one who after watching the video was left feeling like Ijoy was set up? God help us all.

I know just what you mean

 

[tombaker]

Some thoughts.

1. The cease and desist is generic, not written for any particular vendor. In fact when they show it, they wrote in the Vendor name, by hand, with some serious grade school penmanship.
2. They were going to use this on somebody in the ECC, they had to go around and check to find someone.
3. The address they used was IJOY at the Ontario Convention Center. Legally speaking, they already stopped doing anything at that place of business.
4. Why would anyone buy any product from these guys in the future. This was a marketing stunt on the backs of other vendors.
5. The T-Shirt the guy "serving the papers says " Buying Clones Supports Terrorists" Those are the people you want making your MOD? Support some young factory workers in China over them.....all day, every day, IMO.

They can not protect themselves even if they tried.

• You can not trade mark a number. You can not trademark an acronym.
  
• The device itself just has a Kr, in the generic form off a periodic table. No © no ® no TM
• Because of this I think the 454 RBA in question, can only be a Clone. Nothing on the device itself to make it protect-able. The packaging is the same, the Green Kr is a straight copy from a periodic table. I think they must have watched Breaking Bad because its that color Green.
• I don't think the object is protect-able in any way right now. Its essentially an unbranded original.
• 101 vapes sells both versions. The clones seem to be machined better, no jaggies on the holes.
• http://101vape.com/rebuildable-atomizers-tanks/413-11-454-big-block-atomizer-clone-by-tobeco.html IN STOCK $15.99

The Tobeco version seems better machined, especially if you watch 420 video where he can not break some pieces apart.

 

[allby]

You don't trash the clone market? Since when...yesterday?

He kinda like our pres. who now says I never called Isis JV i was talking about other regional groups but Poltifacts just said liar/liar lol

 

[eso]

CFog, it might help if you used the correct spelling. "Conceit".

I propose: Clones Only Cigarette Kits & Electronic Re-builder Systems

Following the two links above, I became very disheartened. Rarely has such a large portion of any community completely missed the point re: clones.

You see a lot of sheep making noise because 'clones' "ruin" the Ecig industry. If a clone of a certain device is more popular than the original, the manufacturer's should get the message that their product is either not popular, or grossly over priced. That's the 'Free Market System'. Either design, improve, or lower the price to a decent level. If one is upset about being copied and losing money, build a better 'mousetrap'!

Whining and crying that you are 'butt hurt' because someone is profiting more off of your idea does exactly NOTHING!

or not...IMO

Dude, like, you made Cfog's butt hurt.

 

[allby]

That is an opinion not me trashing the clone market. Seriously. If you are going to use an example, I am sure I posted better examples. Because that in no way is me trashing the clone market. Now if I said, "the clones need to be banned and removed because they cost people money and are garbage devices and dangerous!." that would have been a trashing opinion.

What kind of double talk is that

 

[eso]

Really?
A convention is the perfect place for a vendor to show us WHY his metal tube somehow beats the clone of it; show us the difference. Break out a magnifying glass. A loup, or shit, a microscope.
IF your tube of metal is worth 100, 200, 300+, show us why and outsell your competition. If not.... accept the inevitable, or innovate and patent, like evolv.

I just got a tingle of hope.

 

[eso]

Wow, there is so much wrong with what you have said. I don't even know where to begin.

Damn it, we need a like x ten button!

 

[allby]

And if you guys are all about clones... then why do you bitch and complain about the fake vtc batteries? Ironic and contradictory! They are clones too after all!

this goes back to the conterfet thing were they are trying to sell fakes as real

 

[eso]

It not about which is better... It about one being a fucking ripoff of someone else's work. No logos or straight out design copy's fine.. No one would have this problem. To support or defend this ripoff commie slave labor practice in it current straight up stealing form is pure bullshit.

No morals
No ethics
The same mouth breathers that screw over their own mother for a dollar.....

That's what you clone lovers are, plain and simple.

seriously, "ripoff commie slave labor practice" sounds just like someone with no morals, no ethics, a mouthbreather? Yep, that just about sums those comments up.

 

[eso]

House of Hybrids News (Zen's Blog)

Quote:
So the Chi-NA clone is finally in the states, at least a sample of one has landed. I am very pleased they used Z2 threading and they maintained the same tube length. It is as close to a 1-1 clone as they can probably manage at the price point.

IF they are using the "dna clone" board that is in the CHANA it is important that people who are considering this purchase understand that the device will have NO battery condition monitoring or any of the safety features associated with the battery monitoring circuit. It does have a battery level meter... this is not the same thing as condition monitoring.

I am looking forward to the many number of people that will now get to experience the Z2 system at china prices. People entering the system from this direction will be able to add accessories from the existing Z2 lineup to personalize their Chi-NA, and if they decide to continue on and purchase an Authentic ZNA, the purchase of the accessories will not be a wasted effort. They will slide right onto the real device.

I will be contacting the manufacturer to see what we can do about getting access to these for certification as a factory authorized edition.

We live in a global economy. We have to embrace change. For those of you that feel they have stolen my design, it is true... they have... but the important thing about being in this industry is that devices like this save lives by helping people free themselves of their dependency on cigarettes and combustible tobacco.

If you are concerned about the effect this will have on my business and the livelihoods of my employees, please encourage the purchasers of the Chi-NA to accessorize with genuine ZenKote parts. I do ask that you NOT alienate people that make the choice to own a Chi-NA.

It took them 8 months to knock this one off... that's a long time in this industry, but we all knew it would happen. I am not going to file lawsuits against the resellers as others have done. I am not going to threaten the manufacturer in any way. If the American public wants to buy a knock-off of my design then they are going to buy it, no matter what I do. This is the world we live in, and I intend to embrace change

Zen is truly a class act. None better.

 

[allby]

Ohhh lookie, my new avatar

I truly like the one you have now

 

[allby]

They're metal tubes..... METAL TUBES..... Just like authentics. I guess none of them are especially safe if misused, altered in unadvisable ways, dropped on your toe, or hurled at your head. Let's not forget that the first mechanical innovators were using nothing more complicated or sophisticated than plumbing and hardware findings. What's changed?? Fit, finish, cake decorating..... and price.

I'm not against authentics. I think people are free to spend their money however, and on whatever pleases them most. I don't however see any merit in arguments that involve irrelevant comparisons (to batteries that don't perform to spec and thus are dangerous) or that protect modders from copycats ripping off ripped-off logos. If you want to protect a logo, license, purchase or design it yourself.... protect it accordingly.... and I'll support your sole right to use it all day long. But don't search the web for royalty free, easy to etch images and then cry "FOUL!" when someone else uses it as well.

Amen Tyger

 

[eso]

What gets me is you always hear, just as in this thread, if the makers don't want cloned they should get a patent or trademark. Well, we have seen what the clone pimps do when a company does this then tries to stand up for what's theirs and what's right.... They get demonized and made out to be the bad guys on the clone pimps blogs. Hum hum hum.... HANA lawsuits ring a bell?

There is a US company making a fantastic authentic mode right now selling for $70bucks.... I won't hold my breath for these same blogs to pimp them anytime soon........

Pathetic.

Sorry, but "those guys" were idiots dressed up as clowns and sporting the professionalism of a yak! They demonized themselves, I mean, we are talking about the same video right, the one from the ecc where those buffoons served legal papers decorated with f-bombs? Yeah, that one.

 

[eso]

Let us take this debate to a different product.

Cellphones.

There are clones of cell phones. But people gladly every day either buy a cheaper authentic product or shell out for the more costly device. Many people save up for months to buy that new Iphone on release day. Why can you not do this if you claim to be a vaper and not just a cessation seeker. Because you still think in terms of a smoker. You hated when you would walk in a store and your smokes were 55 cents higher. You would bitch and complain but still buy them. Well now you do the same thing and china says, "hey here is our version, it is inferior and might explode in your hand easier than the real one, but it is only 25 bucks instead of 175. So you shell out 25 bucks and buy a clone then complain when someone is happy they got the real one.

Like it or not that is in a nutshell exactly how most of the whiners think. Cessationist and non whiners this does not apply to you.

Gosh, I'm so relieved.

 

[SpiceTM]

Why is this under bad news?

 

[freshness]

LOL, and you my dear are too easy, go for a ride in your BMW and suck on your "engraved" battery holder, try maybe to come up with some more idea's on what you can do to get use out of that 60K engraver you began posting a sob story about, hell why don't you post a link to the website that sells your masterpieces so we all know who not to buy from in the future,

How about I just don't stoop down to your level instead?

I don't even make mods or sell them. I mentioned in my first post that I am in the jewelry manufacturing industry. Therefore, every insult you have already thrown at me doesn't effect me whatsoever, lol.

Since I don't want to continue bickering with you and veer this thread off topic with insults, here's a panda.

 

[Nailz]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301259324010

With free shipping, hell of a deal

 

[allby]

I stated I was willing to help put a show together in Oregon....I have around 15 pages of info printed up already lol. I think I am going to actually try and get a show together, its pretty damn cheap up here to rent large venues.

If you really want to do this I and some others i know are willing to help I'm in Vancouver Wa.

 

[VaporJoe]

 

[cloudy_judgement]

LOL, I am still trying to figure out what CBD is, while I sit back eating popcorn watching the debate...

 

[moecat]

ECC = Evil Clown College?