Vaping Militia should consider changing its name

[Jose Nava]

Maybe this is or isn't the place where I should be making a post about this. I feel a bit chatty tonight so I thought I'd share a thought. First, I don't want to appear as someone who tends to be a person who hates and tries to find flaw in everything. But the Vaping Militia, being such an important advocacy group and doing so much good for the community, should really consider changing its name. Lets be honest, the word militia has never really been used to describe a group or organization in a positive way. With that being said, I don't think that right now, being the in difficult times we are in with the FDA and under the microscope with so many people either for or against or don't care at all regarding e cigarettes, should be giving legitimate organizations names that could be portrayed negatively. I know its difficult to have to make changes and sacrifices in order to satisfy and be portrayed as a legitimate and compliant organization in today's society. But we must, in order to make sure that the things we do, the things we love to do, will stick around now and in the many years to come.

Just a thought.

 

[jae]

I've never even considered looking into Vaping Militia because of the name. I don't want to be associated with any Ruby Ridge weirdos, supremacists/separatists, or Branch Davidian types. I don't know anything about them and i am sure they're probably none of those things... but i'm not about to risk finding myself in a storeroom passing out rifles while the shit's hitting the fan outside with Feds surrounding the warehouse and German Shepherds breaching the perimeter.

I don't want to judge a book by its cover! But i also don't want to pick up a book with that title to even look.

 

[Jose Nava]

Well said Jeremy! My point exactly!

 

[jae]

Perhaps The Rainbow Patrol would be better
Unicorn Squad?
Faerie Troopers?
Lollipop Legionnaires?
The Gnome Rangers?
Gumdrop Guerrillas?
The Squicky Dolphinlove Resistance?

I dunno. Just something friendlier, and less freaky-scary or paranoia-inducing. Anything. "Militia" to me sounds like the Heavily Armed Tin Foil Hat Brigade.

 

[UncleRJ]

The Smurf Liberation Army?

 

[Temple Noble]

I see all your points and UncleRJ after Vaping Militia that would be my second choice. I have never seen the name as negative at all. I took it to mean a group citizens banding together to organize and fight for vaping rights. I do not see Ruby ridge in every Citizen Militia. If you really want me to put on my Tinfoil hat, Governments have never been fond of any type of Militia in recent history even none violent ones, because they can be very effective. So most of what we have been taught or shown in the media is negative. I don't know that any of this takes away from the OP's point that people mistrust the concept or perceive it poorly.

 

[tombaker]

Vaping Militia is clearly near the worst possible name.

noun: militia; plural noun: militias
a military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency.​

• • a military force that engages in rebel or terrorist activities, typically in opposition to a regular army.

Well intended, surely, but the execution of how much good they can do, is eliminated by the name. Thanks guys for associating military, and guns, and all the rest.....to Vapers. I watched an interview with the head of the Militia on Phil Busardo, Phil questioned the name, said he and other had a problem with it, the head of group just stood by it, talked about its historical connotations.

----> So I am a city council, a woman, and I hear that a Militia wants to come into the City Council and speak in opposition to what is being talked about, that night, at night, time of year when its dark at about 7pm, when those things usually are heard. What do you think the reaction is going to be. Accepting? Wanting to hear it out? Happy a Militia has entered the halls to speak about health issues. Not a chance.

You know what the reaction will be. A couple of Sheriffs really happy. Because the City Council just told a few of them, they will be getting overtime, because the City Council wants to have some extra guys in the building for when the Militia comes to tell them they are wrong.

How about changing it from Vaping Militia to "Vaping Advocates USA"? How hard would that be?

 

[MonkeySquad]

Well you can join the Vaping Ballerinas if you prefer. Grab your tutu boys... Get ready to get active and dance!

 

[TruckCentral]

I've never even considered looking into Vaping Militia because of the name. I don't want to be associated with any Ruby Ridge weirdos, supremacists/separatists, or Branch Davidian types. I don't know anything about them and i am sure they're probably none of those things... but i'm not about to risk finding myself in a storeroom passing out rifles while the shit's hitting the fan outside with Feds surrounding the warehouse and German Shepherds breaching the perimeter.

I don't want to judge a book by its cover! But i also don't want to pick up a book with that title to even look.

Perhaps judging a book by its cover and saying you don't want to be accused of it is an oxymoron. If you actually looked into what we were about you would speak differently. But instead you hide behind this forum saying you don't want to be associated with Ruby Ridge weirdos, supremacist/separatists or Branch Davidian types and all you are doing is spreading ignorance about something you nothing about. I challenge you to find out what we are about. Until then go ahead and spread your ignorant shit and your words will tell others just what YOU are about. I also challenge you to put this much effort into fighting for your rights to keep vaping. I don't care what group you join just join a group and put the effort into the cause.

 

[TruckCentral]

"The biggest drawback to free speech is people like you talk."

 

[MonkeySquad]

"The biggest drawback to free speech is people like you talk."

I guess we can tolerate your dribble!

 

[SAMiAM71]

Maybe this is or isn't the place where I should be making a post about this. I feel a bit chatty tonight so I thought I'd share a thought. First, I don't want to appear as someone who tends to be a person who hates and tries to find flaw in everything. But the Vaping Militia, being such an important advocacy group and doing so much good for the community, should really consider changing its name. Lets be honest, the word militia has never really been used to describe a group or organization in a positive way. With that being said, I don't think that right now, being the in difficult times we are in with the FDA and under the microscope with so many people either for or against or don't care at all regarding e cigarettes, should be giving legitimate organizations names that could be portrayed negatively. I know its difficult to have to make changes and sacrifices in order to satisfy and be portrayed as a legitimate and compliant organization in today's society. But we must, in order to make sure that the things we do, the things we love to do, will stick around now and in the many years to come.

Just a thought.

Correction...activism group, not advocacy

 

[VapeMeStoopid]

I'll be honest, when VM 1st started up I was a bit apprehensive of the name, but I kept a watch on it... In fact I told Stefan Didak this not too long ago! I had seen some orgs start up and then fail within a couple months so I didn't want to support another org that might do the same. Kept an eye on the VM and finally decided just the other week to order my tags!
The VM is a great group and its concept is in the best interests of the vapers. Militia is a STRONG word which people associate with crazy gun toting mountain men most of the time. In this case Militia means its intended purpose. We are every day citizens in a fight, combat so to speak, to save our lives and millions of others from the clutches of smoking related death and disease & against those that would love to see us smoking (the tobacco companies and the governments who benefit from the money they get from tobacco) or sick (Big Pharma who needs us as customers).
The name is fine the way it is because it describes US, the vapers, correctly!

A militia/mɨˈlɪʃə/[1] generally is an army or other fighting force that is composed of non-professional fighters; citizens of a nation or subjects of a state or government that can be called upon to enter a combat situation, as opposed to a professional force of regular, full-time military personnel, or historically, members of the fighting nobility class (e.g., knights or samurai). (Increasingly, the word is used for an individual militiaman, with plural militias.) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia

 

[tombaker]

Perhaps judging a book by its cover and saying you don't want to be accused of it is an oxymoron. If you actually looked into what we were about you would speak differently. But instead you hide behind this forum saying you don't want to be associated with Ruby Ridge weirdos, supremacist/separatists or Branch Davidian types and all you are doing is spreading ignorance about something you nothing about. I challenge you to find out what we are about. Until then go ahead and spread your ignorant shit and your words will tell others just what YOU are about. I also challenge you to put this much effort into fighting for your rights to keep vaping. I don't care what group you join just join a group and put the effort into the cause.

"An unarmed militia" is an oxymoron, if you want to use the definition correctly. Militia carry guns, historically it was a requirement to have a gun. Can't change history, and how most Americans understand it.

The first legislation on the subject was The Militia Act of 1792 which provided, in part:
That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, ... every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock....​

Calling it the Vaping Militia is just a classic marketing blunder. You have the cause you want to help. Instead you have to spend time explaining that Militia does not mean you are carrying a gun, then explain that the listeners views about a Militia are all wrong. Chances are you won't get past that first step. Glazed over eyes, sending you on your way. Say you do get past the negatives of the world, to where they listen, from that hole you have to try to get their support. A lot of effort just to get your point across.

How about calling it Vaping Thugs. You can explain the name came from people who like Mt Baker Vapor Thug Juice, but it won't fly.

The intended audience is local cities governments, and local activism. Nobody wants to hear an Army is coming over to visit. Militia is synonymous with Army.

The public and general perception and understanding of the world Militia already exists, the Vaping Militia is in denial if they think change that, or overcome it. The name is a liability.

 

[tombaker]

I'll be honest, when VM 1st started up I was a bit apprehensive of the name, but I kept a watch on it........ Militia is a STRONG word which people associate with crazy gun toting mountain men most of the time. In this case Militia means its intended purpose.

You said it: The name caused apprehension, you say its associated with crazy gun totters. Then you keep follow them, and decided it was OK. The audience, where the rubber meets the road, will be with government officials, cities, states. NONE OF THEM, are going to keep watching and think about them. The effort will be painted with a strong first impression. The same you had. Apprehension possibility of guns, talking to the city council who just had the PTA president as the agenda item before the Militia show ups.

Its a classic blunder. Not to be confused with the blunderbuss used by early militia

 

[VapeMeStoopid]

"An unarmed militia" is an oxymoron, if you want to use the definition correctly. Militia carry guns, historically it was a requirement to have a gun. Can't change history, and how most Americans understand it.

The first legislation on the subject was The Militia Act of 1792 which provided, in part:
That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, ... every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock....​

Calling it the Vaping Militia is just a classic marketing blunder. You have the cause you want to help. Instead you have to spend time explaining that Militia does not mean you are carrying a gun, then explain that the listeners views about a Militia are all wrong. Chances are you won't get past that first step. Glazed over eyes, sending you on your way. Say you do get past the negatives of the world, to where they listen, from that hole you have to try to get their support. A lot of effort just to get your point across.

How about calling it Vaping Thugs. You can explain the name came from people who like Mt Baker Vapor Thug Juice, but it won't fly.

The intended audience is local cities governments, and local activism. Nobody wants to hear an Army is coming over to visit. Militia is synonymous with Army.

The public and general perception and understanding of the world Militia already exists, the Vaping Militia is in denial if they think change that, or overcome it. The name is a liability.

I think you are carrying too much weight on the literal meaning of the word. Now I know, no one is going to take up arms against the government over vaping, so don't go there, but it's a nice thought considering the many government that are condemning us to death by restricting or banning reduced harm alternatives? It's certainly a better reason to fight than all these governments fighting each other over religion and race isn't it? Maybe all this time us humans have been fighting for the wrong causes and its about time, that every day people like me and you, fight for the right ones.

 

[tombaker]

1

I think you are carrying too much weight on the literal meaning of the word. Now I know, no one is going to take up arms against the government over vaping, so don't go there, but it's a nice thought considering the many government that are condemning us to death by restricting or banning reduced harm alternatives?

I am a member of the Militia, and I think you are condemning me and friends to death!

Do you then give them a list of demands, or do you try to convince them with sound reasoning. Militia have a rich history of attacking and using guns against anyone who threatens their lives.

 

[VapeMeStoopid]

You said it: The name caused apprehension, you say its associated with crazy gun totters. Then you keep follow them, and decided it was OK. The audience, where the rubber meets the road, will be with government officials, cities, states. NONE OF THEM, are going to keep watching and think about them. The effort will be painted with a strong first impression. The same you had. Apprehension possibility of guns, talking to the city council who just had the PTA president as the agenda item before the Militia show ups.

Its a classic blunder. Not to be confused with the blunderbuss used by early militia

None of those same people think about ME or YOU if you want to get technical. We're just numbers on a spreadsheet. Regardless of what the VM is called or how many people are wary due to the name, the old saying "Do not judge a book by its cover" applies here. I am an intelligent adult, like many and most other vapers world wide (ok, we can let the intelligent thing slide ) but because I know how to use my brains, thats why I kept an eye on the org, Yes the name was a bit...weird, it is just vaping after all, but it was their actions and message that resonated with me, I could care less what it's called, its the mission I identify with.

 

[VapeMeStoopid]

1


I am a member of the Militia, and I think you are condemning me and friends to death!

Do you then give them a list of demands, or do you try to convince them with sound reasoning. Militia have a rich history of attacking and using guns against anyone who threatens their lives.

Ok now you just got weird with all that. It's also quite obvious you have your mind made up and I really have no interest arguing with you endlessly. Have fun!

 

[tombaker]

the old saying "Do not judge a book by its cover" applies here.

Its does not apply very well, because people do judge books by their covers, all the time. Its more of a item, You never get a 2nd chance to make a first impression. The first impression of the term Vaping Militia is negative. Almost uniformly, it negative. And you need an education to stop thinking of it negatively. It put the VM in a hole immediately, that they have to overcome.

How about just calling themselves United Vaping Activists? Its way easier, and avoids all the crap. Organization is 6 months old, they already sold the dog tags, so unless they suck it up and correct the mistake. The Militia will be asking to come into City Hall, and list off their grievances. Pre-judged by those who read the agenda before the meeting starts.

 

[tombaker]

Ok now you just got weird with all that. It's also quite obvious you have your mind made up and I really have no interest arguing with you endlessly. Have fun!

Yah, its sad.
I mean now I feel stupid, especially with your absolutely gorgeous FB pic next to your posts.

But it is the point, when a Militia walks up to government, to raise issues, its very confrontational on the surface. Its just going to be perceived that way.
Its just a matter of what will work with most people, the Vaping Militia name is a liability in the effort to change minds.

Your first impressions of the Vaping Militia are the norm, not the exception.
bummer

 

[jae]

"The biggest drawback to free speech is people like you talk."

The biggest drawback to language is people who cannot use it well.

 

[jae]

Perhaps judging a book by its cover and saying you don't want to be accused of it is an oxymoron. If you actually looked into what we were about you would speak differently. But instead you hide behind this forum saying you don't want to be associated with Ruby Ridge weirdos, supremacist/separatists or Branch Davidian types and all you are doing is spreading ignorance about something you nothing about. I challenge you to find out what we are about. Until then go ahead and spread your ignorant shit and your words will tell others just what YOU are about. I also challenge you to put this much effort into fighting for your rights to keep vaping. I don't care what group you join just join a group and put the effort into the cause.

Not only did i not say i didn't want to be accused of it, i pointed out in my very first post in the thread that was in fact judging a book by its cover - just that i didn't want to. It's kind of hard not to with a name like that. Perhaps if i started an advocacy group and called it the Vaper Lynch Mob people might judge that group by its name too. Let's face it: the word "militia" has got some negative connotations for a lot of people.

As for spreading ignorance, all i ever did was agree with the OP that the word "militia" might be a turn-off for people. Which it clearly is. And i only ever mentioned VM in my life in this specific thread. Either i'm not very good at spreading ignorance, or you are incorrect in your assertion that i am doing so.

 

[MilitiaLady]

There's an old saying......"A rose by any other name would still smell sweet". Have any of you looked past your disapproval of our name to see who we are or what we do? We work hard and give our hearts, blood, sweat and tears as we fight for the rights of the vaping community. Despite your negative comments about our name, we fight for your rights too. You should be thanking us. Incidentally.....you're welcome.

 

[Roger Schaeffer]

" Judging A Book by its Cover" Is not what the whole- well it looks like smoking so we better ban/restrict it- is about? For me it was like this, I wonder what this Vaping Militia is about? I think I'll research them. So now I am a supporting member at the Trooper Level.

 

[m3rma1d]

Consider that the book cover is being judged is my the non-vaping public.
If people IN the vaping community are automatically conjuring negative connotations as we see here, how do you think that asshole John. Q. Public sees it? I'd think you'd wanna do everything in your power to not freak out "the public" in the slightest, no?

My non-smoking/non-vaping friends are already a touch freaked out over my newly found love of vaping... I sure ain't joining a "militia" on top of that, they'd file a 5150.

 

[AngryAnt]

The Communist Party of America, the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei(commonly nazi party), the Socialist Party of America, The Jacobite rebellion all were underground movements. In deed the Fist which you use as your logo has been used by underground movements Such as the Black Panthers whom Hoover, called "the greatest threat to the internal security of the country" is widely regarding as being a terrorist organization for the acts of random violence they perpetrated. Though im sure you're probably none of those things.... the word Militia is no more detrimental to the movement than the word Underground. In fact we owe our Freedom and Country to a Militia. The " tin foil hat" bit i did find comical as the conspiracy theorists have nothing to do with a Militia. True that a militia is armed, to the purpose of defending that which needs defending. It does convey the message that attempts to strip us of our vaping freedoms will be met with HEAVY resistance, and indeed they will be. I would put to you, instead of criticizing a group which to date has done more as you say in "6 months" to Unite this community, stay underground, stay silent, and stay out of our way, but if nothing else stop trying to divide a cause common to your own.

 

[tombaker]

There's an old saying......"A rose by any other name would still smell sweet". Have any of you looked past your disapproval of our name to see who we are or what we do? We work hard and give our hearts, blood, sweat and tears as we fight for the rights of the vaping community. Despite your negative comments about our name, we fight for your rights too. You should be thanking us. Incidentally.....you're welcome.

Wish you would not have asked people check it out.

1. I don't know if I was incredibly lucky or unlucky, but the first hit on Vaping Militia tossed me over to Facebook, and the Callout section. Where the author of the Call Outs, is , featuring a picture of him, with his very high caliber professional sniper rifle and scope. https://www.facebook.com/groups/VapingMilitiaCallOuts/
   
2. Then I did the double take on the Vaping Militia emblem. Its a Bundesadler, the Coat of Arms for Germany. Why not use a proud American Eagle instead of the German stuff. Why use the German Eagle Crest? And yah all sorts of images form the late 30s to mid 45. https://www.google.com/search?q=german eagle crest&client=firefox-a&hs=byn&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=UWLWU9T2AZbooATJpYCICw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1536&bih=837

no bleeping Idea why the could not use an American Eagle.​

 

[Myk]

If you have a problem with the word "militia" you're probably part of the problem.
When I was brought up "militia" is what created this country. OK, I can buy that was a bit of revisionist history and they weren't as key to success in the Revolution as was claimed, but they certainly weren't bad.
Somewhere along the way anti-gunners decided they could claim the 2nd Amendment only applied to militia. So they decided to turn the word into a put down and claim it meant gun nuts. If you buy into that without bothering to think and learn for yourself you're also likely to buy into all the anti-smoking claims including vaping equals smoking.
Ruby Ridge wasn't militia, they were a family that wanted to be left alone to live off the grid. Branch Davidians weren't militia, they were a wacko religion that wanted to be left alone and were preparing for end times. In both of these cases they would be better classified as separatists and preppers. Instead you buy into the media painting them as militia except not out to fight for freedom because you let them change the definition.

Actual militias rely on the constitutions. Constitutionalists are something else that has become a bad thing. The propagandists have even gone so far as to claim if you have a copy of the Constitution you are a terrorist suspect.
If you fear the word militia you'll eventually go along with the propaganda put out about vaping assuming you haven't already.

 

[Becky Meyer]

Paul Revere "The British are coming, the British are coming!"
The Vaping Militia " The FDA is coming, the FDA is coming!"

I know it's silly but, that was my first thought. LOL

 

[Hobby Kid]

The Smurf Liberation Army?

Cozzzz... when we stand in front of committees we want them to take us seriously, right? lol
I'd invite the smurf army to a party, just not sure it would be a political one Unc

 

[kelli]

There's an old saying......"A rose by any other name would still smell sweet". Have any of you looked past your disapproval of our name to see who we are or what we do? We work hard and give our hearts, blood, sweat and tears as we fight for the rights of the vaping community. Despite your negative comments about our name, we fight for your rights too. You should be thanking us. Incidentally.....you're welcome.

i am not familiar with your organization, but i am sure that you all do work hard for the cause. i still have to argue that the moniker is unfortunate, because most people (rightly or wrongly) associate it with violence prone radicals. you can defend the name all you want, but until people get past it, they won't see what good you are doing.

i said something similar a couple of years ago about the counter culture imagery that was (and sometimes still is) associated with vaping. in order to win the hearts and minds of everyday normal people, you have to appeal to their sensibilities. otherwise you are fighting a losing battle.

but thank you for your efforts, no matter what the name.

 

[Hobby Kid]

If I was militia I wouldn't let anybody know

 

[robtest]

If I was militia I wouldn't let anybody know

I think that's more ninjas...

 

[Hobby Kid]

Or the Jason Bourne posse

 

[Angelwriterspeaks]

Here are my thoughts on it:
1. In order to bring attention to a situation, you gotta be a little creative...this means doing something a bit radical for people to take notice. If you can't say it, why show it?

2. A name is a name. If you don't like the name, there are plenty of organizations to join who you could possibly help in the vaping community...but would their caliber be the same as what this group does?

3. Remember that everyone in the vaping community is in this together...why bring up something as a minimal as a name of a group to try to cause drama and divide the community? We got a fight on our hands here people not a Weird Al Word Crimes situation.

Probably because of this this thread, you'll have more people wanting to check out the Vaping Militia...so its good marketing to them (even if that was unintentional). Why not talk to the guys themselves about your concerns?

 

[SAMiAM71]

Wish you would not have asked people check it out.

1. I don't know if I was incredibly lucky or unlucky, but the first hit on Vaping Militia tossed me over to Facebook, and the Callout section. Where the author of the Call Outs, is , featuring a picture of him, with his very high caliber professional sniper rifle and scope. https://www.facebook.com/groups/VapingMilitiaCallOuts/
   
2. Then I did the double take on the Vaping Militia emblem. Its a Bundesadler, the Coat of Arms for Germany. Why not use a proud American Eagle instead of the German stuff. Why use the German Eagle Crest? And yah all sorts of images form the late 30s to mid 45. https://www.google.com/search?q=german eagle crest&client=firefox-a&hs=byn&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=UWLWU9T2AZbooATJpYCICw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1536&bih=837

no bleeping Idea why the could not use an American Eagle.​

LMAO...That sir is NOT a Bundesaldler. That sir is a Pheonix it was put there in memory of a dear friend and fellow vaper that had passed away. Ignorance is so bliss. You need to know more facts before you let the diarrhea flow from your blow hole!!

 

[robtest]

LMAO...That sir is NOT a Bundesaldler. That sir is a Pheonix it was put there in memory of a dear friend and fellow vaper that had passed away. Ignorance is so bliss. You need to know more facts before you let the diarrhea flow from your blow hole!!

you may have wanted a phoenix but you picked a bundesadler ... j/s...

 

[Roger Schaeffer]

i am not familiar with your organization, but i am sure that you all do work hard for the cause. i still have to argue that the moniker is unfortunate, because most people (rightly or wrongly) associate it with violence prone radicals. you can defend the name all you want, but until people get past it, they won't see what good you are doing.

i said something similar a couple of years ago about the counter culture imagery that was (and sometimes still is) associated with vaping. in order to win the hearts and minds of everyday normal people, you have to appeal to their sensibilities. otherwise you are fighting a losing battle.

but thank you for your efforts, no matter what the name.

I don't think most people who think for themselves instead of what 24 cable news tells them to think, or get their info from 1 min sensational news bites necessarily see- militia- in only 1 light. We don't have to convince the general public of anything. They already have a negative picture of anything tobacco/nicotine related. Smokers are a stigmatized minority and vapers are a smaller minority. We need to convince local,state and federal office holders to look past the ANTZ proproganda and look at science and harm reduction possibilities. Its an uphill battle as these folks have been counting of tobacco tax revenue to help balance their budgets for yrs> Thus the move to classify Electronic Cigarettes as Tobacco products,the first step towards sin taxes. The name of 1 very effective advocacy organization is a trivial matter IMO

 

[nachtnoir]

We appreciate everyone's comments and thoughts behind our name. We welcome honest educated debate. Sadly on this matter we will not agree.
Historically the Militia in America has been either revered or feared. The Sons Of Liberty and the Minutemen are our model. The Sons of Liberty were a group of men not professional soldiers who came from every walk of life. These men disagreed with the Colonial English Government's taxes to shore up funding to house additional soldiers in the colonies. Without a voice they used their skills to protest the Tea Act and ultimately threw a little party in Boston Harbor.
Let me add they did this without weapons and their other actions included writing and publishing papers to educate and inform the public on the liberty that was being taken from them. A simple internet search will give you more detail on these men. Their members included Lawyers, Doctors, Tradesmen, Artisans, and Merchants, below is a short list of notable members.
John Adams - lawyer, Massachusetts
Samuel Adams – political writer, tax collector/fire warden, Boston
Benjamin Edes – journalist/publisher Boston Gazette, Boston
Christopher Gadsden – merchant, Charleston, South Carolina
John Hancock – merchant/smuggler/fire warden, Boston
Patrick Henry – lawyer/fire warden Virginia
John Holt, colonial publisher for 3 American colonies
John Lamb – trader, New York City
Alexander McDougall – captain of privateers, New York City
James Otis – lawyer, Massachusetts
Charles Willson Peale - Portrait painter and saddle maker, Annapolis, MD
Paul Revere – silversmith/fire warden, Boston
Benjamin Rush – physician, Philadelphia
Isaac Sears – captain of privateers, New York City
Haym Solomon – financial broker, New York and Philadelphia
James Swan – American patriot and financier, Boston
Charles Thomson – tutor/secretary, Philadelphia
Joseph Warren – doctor/soldier, Boston
Thomas Young – doctor, Boston
Marinus Willett – cabinetmaker/soldier, New York
Oliver Wolcott – lawyer, Connecticut

Many of these men did take up arms as members of the Continental Army and Leaders in Non-Militia roles later. Many were signatories of the Declaration of Independence and respected members of their communities.

The Minute-Men were a segment in the early Militia whose purpose was to remain ready to respond in a rapid manner to defend and alert of threats. Paul Revere is the most famous example of a Minute-Man. The Midnight Ride of Paul Revere is an example of this.

The Vaping Militia's task is not to stand in front of City Coucils and testify. Our task is to alert vapers where the threats are, to prepare them with documentation and education so that they can stand and defend themselves. We have never and will never annouce ourselves as members of the Vaping Militia in that way. When we do have to testify we do so as private citizens. The people we have helped wih their defense will tell you that we never ask them to state that they are members of the Militia. We are the alert system to warn that the enemy is coming.

As for you TomBaker, I am smiling now, because in a way you legitimize our work by trolling us. You have attacked Greg Conley, CASAA and almost every leader in advocacy so we become more relevant when you troll us. I would also like to thank you because we have added about 15 new members today. Thank you for the publicity. I would like to point out that in almost every case of your trolling you have fabricated information or misquoted people, or all out made up information in every possible way. I will just post a few examples here. The funny thing is you did a lot of this in this thread alone so I won't have to look very far.
For Example.....
Complete Lie

1


I am a member of the Militia, and I think you are condemning me and friends to death!

You are not nor have you ever been one of the 4600 plus members on the Vaping Milita Facebook, nor a supporting member of our organization.

Misinformation

Wish you would not have asked people check it out.
I don't know if I was incredibly lucky or unlucky, but the first hit on Vaping Militia tossed me over to Facebook, and the Callout section. Where the author of the Call Outs, is , featuring a picture of him, with his very high caliber professional sniper rifle and scope. https://www.facebook.com/groups/VapingMilitiaCallOuts/
Then I did the double take on the Vaping Militia emblem. Its a Bundesadler, the Coat of Arms for Germany. Why not use a proud American Eagle instead of the German stuff. Why use the German Eagle Crest? And yah all sorts of images form the late 30s to mid 45. https://www.google.com/search?q=german eagle crest&client=firefox-a&hs=byn&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=UWLWU9T2AZbooATJpYCICw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1536&bih=837
no bleeping Idea why the could not use an American Eagle.

The Vaping Militia Call Outs group is not affiliated with the Vaping Militia in any official manner, it was started by Jeremy Colvin and a few other people to increase awareness. We thank him for his efforts and would also like to point out that he is also an administrator on the Vaping Underground. If Jeremy enjoys his firearms that is his business.
Your search for the Bundesadler is a bit disengenuous at best. The Eagle has been used in heraldry for hundreds of years. The German's are not the only group to use it. I will use a Google search of my own to illustrate this.

A simple internet search will find this clip art as a "Phoenix".

https://www.google.com/search?clien...stock.com%2Fs%2Fphoenix%2Fsearch.html;450;409

The point is TomBaker, you can make anything look bad if you want to. Your search parameters show you wanted it to look like a Bundesadler. You misdirect vapers from the important information and tear down the work of those greater than you.

 

[Hobby Kid]

I disagree with English taxes as well

 

[kelli]

I don't think most people who think for themselves instead of what 24 cable news tells them to think, or get their info from 1 min sensational news bites necessarily see- militia- in only 1 light. We don't have to convince the general public of anything. They already have a negative picture of anything tobacco/nicotine related. Smokers are a stigmatized minority and vapers are a smaller minority. We need to convince local,state and federal office holders to look past the ANTZ proproganda and look at science and harm reduction possibilities. Its an uphill battle as these folks have been counting of tobacco tax revenue to help balance their budgets for yrs> Thus the move to classify Electronic Cigarettes as Tobacco products,the first step towards sin taxes. The name of 1 very effective advocacy organization is a trivial matter IMO

the answer to your PR problems can be found in the first sentence of your post.

 

[Roger Schaeffer]

Those people have no political Power. Most left leaning voters dislike the NRA=one of the most politically powerful groups in American. Their leadership is quite In Your Face about its beliefs. Not all their members agree with the leaderships position but they are still members,still pay for membership. Why Because the alternative is a loss of rights .. That's what we are looking at- a loss of rights and we better stand strong vocally and financially with orgs like CASSA and the Militia if we wish to continue freely to pursue our choice of Vaping freely. I donate to CAASA and the Militia now instead of new vaping gear so I can have newer vaping gear in the future.

 

[kelli]

ok, what do i know anyway. i am vapid.

 

[jae]

LMAO...That sir is NOT a Bundesaldler. That sir is a Pheonix it was put there in memory of a dear friend and fellow vaper that had passed away. Ignorance is so bliss. You need to know more facts before you let the diarrhea flow from your blow hole!!

Actually, aren't phoenixes usually on fire, or coming out of fire, or flying out of a pile of ash, or in some other way signifying their uniquely phoenix-like phoenicity?

 

[Roger Schaeffer]

I must add a caveat to my post above. If you can write,e-mail,call or speak in person to your Representatives that is very effective IMO. I think that is the time to be level headed and tell your personal story and give them leads or links to information that supports the use of Electronic cigarettes as a much better alternative to smoking and for us trying to quit with NTR's. Speaking from the heart can be very effective I believe.

 

[tombaker]

Complete Lie http://vapingunderground.com/thread...d-consider-changing-its-name.5245/#post-46556

You are not nor have you ever been one of the 4600 plus members on the Vaping Milita Facebook, nor a supporting member of our organization.

Nachtnoir, 1 item first.....let me disabuse of your first notion that I lied on this thread. I am sorry that my method of laying out a hypothetical scenario caused confusion, I thought it would be clearly understood as it was written. I though the context was obvious anyone following, apparently not.

the post in question http://vapingunderground.com/thread...d-consider-changing-its-name.5245/#post-46556

VapeMeStoopid Said

Now I know, no one is going to take up arms against the government over vaping, so don't go there, but it's a nice thought considering the many government that are condemning us to death by restricting or banning reduced harm alternatives?

which I quoted.

It was in a chain of posts talking about how a Militia going up to a City Council was not going to get warm fuzzies from the voting body, and that because of the name itself, the organization will be pre-judged by many. Too Many. So many that I agree with the OP of the this thread. That is the context.

My Reply was intended to show how VapeMeStoopid's assertion that the government is "condemning us to death" by taking actions as local officials was way over the top. So I laid out a scenario where that level of discourse would be presented.
My Reply:

I am a member of the Militia, and I think you are condemning me and friends to death!

Do you then give them a list of demands, or do you try to convince them with sound reasoning. Militia have a rich history of attacking and using guns against anyone who threatens their lives.

I should have and wished because of your confusion, I had done was say before the first line.
Okay someone goes up to a City Council and says " I am a member of the Militia, and I think you are condemning me and friends to death! " That is the way it was written, and by the context of this thread, no one except yourself is confused whether or not I have joined the Vaping Militia.
I have not. Nor should anyone believe it. Frankly I think its BS you are saying you believe I was saying it, but okay fine, you were confused. Sorry my text did that.

The scenario is clearly expressed when I say "Do you then give them a list of demands, or do you try to convince them with sound reasoning."
The point, if members of the Militia think they are being condemned to death by City Council actions, just exactly how does that play out when its presented to them at their meetings, or face to face. Okay, did that clear the confusion you gained from reading this thread?

I did not lie to you. Did I?
You were not so confused, were you?
You understand what the point was now, don't you?

If so, on to the next reply

 

[tombaker]

Actually, aren't phoenixes usually on fire, or coming out of fire, or flying out of a pile of ash, or in some other way signifying their uniquely phoenix-like phoenicity?

https://www.google.com/search?clien....6.6.0....0...1c.1.49.img..6.1.69.EVs5GFrNtBQ

Variant after variant, Wing tips up.....over and over. NOT Wing Tips down. Maybe there is a better definition, but the image is of an Eagle, the German Eagle used as their coat of arms, for Decades. And yes the same one that often carriers a Swastika. I didn't pick it, but I understand history. Plenty of pictures of that, but I think I won't link them up, because that could actually be a violation of the very small set of rules here.

Its preposterous to say the image is not of an Eagle, and not of the German Coat of Arms, you can see it here, its close enough to wonder if this was the actual artist. (face has slight difference) http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-710...s-emblem.html?src=PeMkgaTCF5MfkeenJmOK5Q-1-80

Why not just use the American Eagle vs German stuff, its just a dumb move.

 

[tombaker]

LMAO...That sir is NOT a Bundesaldler. That sir is a Pheonix it was put there in memory of a dear friend and fellow vaper that had passed away. Ignorance is so bliss. You need to know more facts before you let the diarrhea flow from your blow hole!!

I fucking did not pick the image, I am sorry you don't know history. There was a army running around with that Eagle on their helmets. Looking to the left, wings the same way. Sure its stylized slightly different, not a vector graphic, but it is what it is. Here is the PC version, with a nice Red dot.

 

[jae]

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&hs=fxx&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&channel=sb&biw=1280&bih=864&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=emblem phoenix&oq=emblem phoenix&gs_l=img.3..0.37658.38697.0.39129.7.7.0.0.0.0.77.418.6.6.0....0...1c.1.49.img..6.1.69.EVs5GFrNtBQ

See, THOSE look like phoenixes. I would say "There! That's a phoenix!" were i to see one of those things on the street, or anywhere really. The other thing... yeah those are definitely very germanic in style. No doubt about that. It all adds up to some creepy imagery that i'm not personally fond of.

I also want to point out that, at least in my case (and, i think, obviously in the case of others who seem to agree on some of these points regarding branding), i'm only trying to make helpful suggestions. I haven't made any ad hominem accusations. I think VM, based on what little i've gleaned here, is probably doing some good things, and i wish you folks the best.

But i'm hoping for an advocacy group based solely in reason and rationality, and which isn't afraid of a little criticism (and hopefully which also has the guts to give consideration to all evidence-based science even when it does wind up pointing out the very few things about vaporizing nicotine in the way we do which are evidently not quite as harmless as we might otherwise wish).

I think all we could reasonably ask, and as nicely and responsibly as we can muster, is that VM gives some real and honest consideration about branding and its impact on the public, and how incredibly important it is to be as friendly and rational as possible when trying to earnestly change minds and bring one-time enemies over into the fold. Presenting an image of aggression and combativeness, especially in a philosophically and politically fractured world, and very especially in an incredibly politically fractured United States, can only divide people, not multiply them.