Been using SS316L on Mechs for a couple of years or so.
NI200? Nope won't touch it. Only good for TC and that is even debateable.
NI200? Nope won't touch it. Only good for TC and that is even debateable.
Nothing wrong with stainless on a mech, all I use. Fast ramp up and super clean taste. Nickel on the other hand is a different story.
Been using SS316L on Mechs for a couple of years or so.
NI200? Nope won't touch it. Only good for TC and that is even debateable.
Same experience here. I started with kanthal and to get the ohms I was after there was so much coil mass the ramp up was terrible, made me not care for mechs at the time. Started using nichrome for everything and it was great, but once I tried stainless that was it, fast ramp up like nichrome but better flavor for me. Used to vape higher wattage with dual coils 26x2/38 SS 6 wrap fused claptons, these days I’m too lazy to be bothered spinning claptons and use simple round wire single coils.To you and CactusFanaticus I agree 100%.
I used to use Ni80 for everything. Then I got some stainless and never looked back.
WHAT mod I use is not the point.. the point is... you can create vapor with no airflow therefore airflow is not required to create vapor. Key word is required.That is only true if you are using GOOD temperature control mod.
Watts does not care about temperature.
Watts is what generates your temperature.That is only true if you are using GOOD temperature control mod.
Watts does not care about temperature.
How does any of this prove that airflow can't seriously affect the temperature of the coil? The coil build that I was talking about earlier, if you don't suck really hard it doesn't just burn your lips, but the whole inside of your mouth, your throat, and quite possibly even your trachea, complete with black smoke filling up the room and everything so you really utterly are clueless, and the worst part is all you basically care about is to preach onto others about stuff you refuse to learn anything about.. enough said.
Here, let me give you another hint.
View attachment 120733
You already lost that argument. Now, all you have to do is to just accept it.
Lucky for me I'm not "most people". Also I don't know the OP well enough to be able to decide on whether he fits the description of that, but since you always seem to know everything about anything I don't feel the least bit suprised that you're the only one able to.
For me usually it's about the same wattages as you, occasionally a lot higher. The big clouds are only an inevitable byproduct from my being a flavor chaser who thinks flavor and feel of the vape are in no way separable when it comes to getting the kind of vape that is a satisfying one, but no, it wouldn't be fair to say that you have experience with this particular subject because you keep posting all the clear evidence in the world that you have zero experience with that.
He's not joking either, this I know from personal experience. Nearly vented one. Fortunately, I was using mod that is made of aluminum and felt it getting real hot real fast. Right away took the top off to break connection, unscrewed the bottom cap and ran outside playing hot potato with a battery. Luckily it sat outside safe away from everything a few days & cooled down, didn't vent or explode.
I still think it happened due to one or possibly even two issues.
Did I learn anything? I'll tell you jokingly, nope, not at all. You can bet though I keep my mods clean, obsessively so now & I also take a lot of care regarding batteries. Doesn't take but once to learn.
- It was an older cheap battery from a company that had a bad rep unknown to me.
- I accidentally got some fleck of metal material caught up in the battery tube.
No we aren't trying to scare you you. We rather though instill a sense of caution in you. Be safe & use common sense.
A 0.20 ohm build would be about right for a 18650 with 20A CDR. If it was me I'd switch to a different type of wire either SS316L or NI80 fused claptonExactly my point. I could tell him a decent build, guessing he is using about 5/6 wraps of twisted 26ga kanthal for his build. At 0.41 ohm on a 3.7 volt battery.. this provides 33W power, a very weak vapor. to get a more warm and better vapor, you have to increase the watts to around 50. Removing 1 wrap from his coil would pretty much do this..
A 0.20 ohm build would be about right for a 18650 with 20A CDR. If it was me I'd switch to a different type of wire either SS316L or NI80 fused clapton
The point was you were talking about the warmth of the vape, not the capability to create vapor. Key word is warmth, so I'm not terribly sure how much longer you are going to keep missing the whole point, but........ geez.WHAT mod I use is not the point.. the point is... you can create vapor with no airflow therefore airflow is not required to create vapor. Key word is required.
And you REALLY expect me to write a million times over you were talking about WARMTH of the vape? Keep digging the hole.Now back to the original post.. you can see right off the get go what the problem is.. his resistance is to high to push enough watts through the coil to make any vapor in the first place. Airflow isn't a factor.
FINALLY you're accepting the fact airflow cools the coil. Holy SHIT.The fact that airflow cools the coil is incidental,
The cooling effect on the coil happens in the process of vaping with airflow. We don't need funny stories of "just happens in the process" to know that it happens.you use airflow to cool the vapor the coil just happens in the process.
Incorrect. Juice evaporates faster in fresh air than it evaporates in air that's almost completely saturated with vapor so, because airflow removes the vapor pulling it away from the liquid surface on which the evaporation occurs, fresh air from airflow causes evaporation to be accelerated. Faster evaporation also causes the cooling effect to be intensified further. The vast majority of fridges and freezers use evaporation to refridgerate and freeze. In order to compensate for this combined cooling effect that results from both airflow and evaporation, we can boost the wattage up, accordingly. These are all basic common facts.Yes, the airflow helps prevent the wick from burning, but does not contribute to vapor production in any way.
Power is what determines heat because the amount of heat is exactly equal to the amount of power, and, that also explains why transfer of heat and conversion of power to heat are expressed as watts. Both power and heat are energy, but despite they are two different forms of energy, doesn't mean the amount of energy will change if power is converted to heat.. the amount of energy stays the same. See: first law of thermodynamics.Fact is, airflow is more of a preference than a requirement. Some like warm vape, some like cooler vape.. airflow is one of the factors used to regulate this.
Like I said, you can get vapor without airflow, but you cant get vapor without heat. And what determines heat?
Me gives up. wasted enough time on this.WHAT mod I use is not the point.. the point is... you can create vapor with no airflow therefore airflow is not required to create vapor. Key word is required.
Now back to the original post.. you can see right off the get go what the problem is.. his resistance is to high to push enough watts through the coil to make any vapor in the first place. Airflow isn't a factor.
The fact that airflow cools the coil is incidental, you use airflow to cool the vapor the coil just happens in the process. Yes, the airflow helps prevent the wick from burning, but does not contribute to vapor production in any way. Fact is, airflow is more of a preference than a requirement. Some like warm vape, some like cooler vape.. airflow is one of the factors used to regulate this.
Like I said, you can get vapor without airflow, but you cant get vapor without heat. And what determines heat?
The only reason why I put the big drip tip of my black 30mm Deathtrap RDA onto my brass Buddha V4 RDA was because it has that hot coil build in it that I was talking about earlier so the wide bore of the drip tip helps to spread out the hotness of the vape inside my mouth of course, but this build was just an experiment aimed first and foremost at creating a seriously hot vape with still reasonably OK flavor to explore hotness with this RDA instead of wanting to create a massive cloud. It is a .24 ohms dual coil monstrosity that's my own personal adaptation of a big tri-core fused claptons build, using Ni80 for the wrap wire and 3 strands of tiger wire laid in parallel for the cores, using Kanthal for both the round wire and the ribbon wire that the tiger strands are made of. But I have built much smaller builds that also are fairly hot vapes, and that also burn the wicks if you don't suck really very hard. Here is an (excellent IMO) example of that, and I vape this build on a stacked tube mech with 4 batteries in series:Im betting mod one gives more clouds and mod 3 has the best flavor? Sound about right? So if you were going for a massive cloud, the King set up would probably be your go to?
With .2 ohms amps are just under the CDR of the battery he is using. If you got pissed maybe it should be at yourself for buying shit mods. My mech is a 21700 and I build .12 ohms. I tried a small rdta with a .4 build on a pulse bf mod just to see what it would do and wouldn't make any vapor at all.I'd never suggest a new vaper use the builds that I use. I developed my tastes in vaping over a period of time just like everyone else and in that time I discovered I like low builds with a hot vape. That being said if I tried to use a .2 build I'd be pissed. Not disagreeing with you. Just saying. I know the limits of what I can do with the builds I prefer. To me right out of the gate a .41 on a single tube 18650 mech would be like trying to get smoke from a cigarette that hasn't been lit.
With .2 ohms amps are just under the CDR of the battery he is using. If you got pissed maybe it should be at yourself for buying shit mods. My mech is a 21700 and I build .12 ohms. I tried a small rdta with a .4 build on a pulse bf mod just to see what it would do and wouldn't make any vapor at all.
I like 21700 mechs and have no interest in single 18650 mechs. Best vape for a mech is lower ohms but you can't go too far below the CDR of the battery or you will kill it. I killed a battery on a .08 ohm build so I learned my lesson. Probably would have been OK if I was using Samsung 30TI'm assuming you misinterpreted what I meant. I meant that for my vaping preference I like a low build hot dual coil vape so .2 wouldn't be anywhere close to what I like.
And I don't think I'd call SOI and Vaperz Cloud "shit" as you put it.
I like 21700 mechs and have no interest in single 18650 mechs. Best vape for a mech is lower ohms but you can't go too far below the CDR of the battery or you will kill it. I killed a battery on a .08 ohm build so I learned my lesson. Probably would have been OK if I was using Samsung 30T
You could never run a .08 ohm build in those mechsI stated my personal preference. Why you wanted to say what you said is beyond me so ... whatever. I know how to set my, "shit", mods down without killing my batteries.
You could never run a .08 ohm build in those mechs
I'd never suggest a new vaper use the builds that I use. I developed my tastes in vaping over a period of time just like everyone else and in that time I discovered I like low builds with a hot vape. That being said if I tried to use a .2 build I'd be pissed. Not disagreeing with you. Just saying. I know the limits of what I can do with the builds I prefer. To me right out of the gate a .41 on a single tube 18650 mech would be like trying to get smoke from a cigarette that hasn't been lit.
I agree.. airflow was never the issue and totally unrelated to the OP issue. The problem was never with airflow, the problem was the build was not creating enough heat to produce vapor. Now, if the problem had been vapor to hot, then yes.. that is where airflow becomes important. Fact is, if you have no vapor to begin with, discussing airflow is totally worthless information.Me gives up. wasted enough time on this.
Yeah, mate... I dunno why so many people prefer to vape at or above .2 ohms on a single battery mech, but I suppose it's primarily because of the battery safety recommendation/guideline in cohort with an obsessive-compulsory preference for seriously outdated 20A batteries such as the Samsung 25R and in some cases Sony VTC4, or possibly even some rewrap brands with such a loyal following it doesn't just border on the edge of fanboyism, but instead it goes miles beyond that. Scaremongering also plays a part, as Mooch recommends to stay at or below the CDR, but he also adds that this recommendation is intended specifically for those who ask, and that we should just let them find their own path after that so, what really happens after that is the ohms nazis line themselves up in bunches right in front of where this path begins.I'm assuming you misinterpreted what I meant. I meant that for my vaping preference I like a low build hot dual coil vape so .2 wouldn't be anywhere close to what I like.
And I don't think I'd call SOI and Vaperz Cloud "shit" as you put it.
Vapers who aren't advanced vapers should stay away from mechs regardless of ohms. Going above the CDR requires a certain level of expertise on some points that goes additionally on top of the advanced level.The suggested 0.21/0.20 ohm build is exactly the CDR on a 20A battery, so we normally can recommend this as a reasonably safe build, reasonably safe as no build is 100% safe. Advanced vapers, with a lot of research, can build even lower. I also prefer a fairly warm vapor, but of course I can't state my builds here. Of course, I don't mind helping new mech users with builds within the CDR limits, just as long as they don't expect youtube idiot builds.
Fact is, discussing warmth of the vape without discussing airflow is totally worthless information. SO YOUR INFORMATION ABOUT THAT IS WORTHLESS. Get it? Guess not........I agree.. airflow was never the issue and totally unrelated to the OP issue. The problem was never with airflow, the problem was the build was not creating enough heat to produce vapor. Now, if the problem had been vapor to hot, then yes.. that is where airflow becomes important. Fact is, if you have no vapor to begin with, discussing airflow is totally worthless information.
Airflow has to do with COOLING the vapor.. not warming it.. you got no heat, you don't need to cool anything. All you are doing by arguing this simple fact is showing how little you know about it. I'm done arguing a point with a person to small minded to grasp a simple concept.Fact is, discussing warmth of the vape without discussing airflow is totally worthless information. SO YOUR INFORMATION ABOUT THAT IS WORTHLESS. Get it? Guess not........
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Problem is the Pulse BF mod. Horrible voltage drop. I have one and tested it.With .2 ohms amps are just under the CDR of the battery he is using. If you got pissed maybe it should be at yourself for buying shit mods. My mech is a 21700 and I build .12 ohms. I tried a small rdta with a .4 build on a pulse bf mod just to see what it would do and wouldn't make any vapor at all.
LOL That's what I was saying way back at the start. But I wanted the OP to use the links to figure out his own build to get more watts and more vapor..With .2 ohms amps are just under the CDR of the battery he is using. If you got pissed maybe it should be at yourself for buying shit mods. My mech is a 21700 and I build .12 ohms. I tried a small rdta with a .4 build on a pulse bf mod just to see what it would do and wouldn't make any vapor at all.
I actually went to steamengine to calculate heatflux on that build..Problem is the Pulse BF mod. Horrible
oltage drop. I have one and tested it.
I use .35 -.4 paralell SS316L coil on a Pico Squeeze with a Wasp nano and get a good vape.
Using 25R cells.
a bit hotter vape with VTC5A.
Strawman argument. I never claimed airflow warms the vapor.Airflow has to do with COOLING the vapor.. not warming it..
Again, you were talking about the warmth of the vape. Airflow provides cooling to both the vapor and the coil so keep digging the hole.you got no heat, you don't need to cool anything.
1 + 1 = 3All you are doing by arguing this simple fact is showing how little you know about it.
I sincerely hope for everyone's sake that you ARE finished.I'm done arguing a point with a person to small minded to grasp a simple concept.
You're the one who hijacked it by trying to turn the topic to warmth of the vape.Never mind hijacking a post, trying to turn the topic to airflow, when the post is about getting vapor in the first place.
Incorrect. Not going to re-explain it.Your airflow has not one thing to do with vapor production.
What I wanna do is remind you that you were talking about the warmth of the vape.As I mentioned.. 33watts does not create enough heat on a 26g twisted coil at 0.41ohm to create any decent amount of vapor. In fact, it is barely above the no vapor at all point. So what you wanna do?
Have I told you you were talking about the warmth of the vape?Thin this out even further by adding air?
You really should get through your head the fact you were talking about the warmth of the vape.Again.. get this through your head..
Then why were you talking about the warmth of the vape?the topic is NOT about vape temperature, it is about vapor production..
Incorrect.and airflow has nothing to do with vapor production.
So basically, you were talking about the warmth of the vape.Period, end of story.. DROP MIC.
1 + 1 = 10 in binary.1 + 1 = 3
The term "over-discharge" means to let the resting voltage of the cell (assuming we're talking about a typical round cell such as the Sony VTC5A) reach below 2.5V, which can be dangerous because these cells are rated to between 4.2V (the cell fully charged) and 2.5V (the cell fully discharged).I'm not trying to kick a dead horse. I'm not going to start name calling (albeit sometimes I really want to). I'm not claiming to know more than anyone else. I learn something new every day. If I don't understand I will say "I don't understand ". If I am wrong I am man enough to say so and apologize if necessary.
That being said ...
Misinformation about the safe operation of ANY vaping product is not only dangerous to vapers and the people around them but it is also highly detrimental to the industry as a whole.
Now, I don't have the knowledge, yet, to discuss vaping at an atomic level. Most people don't but I have, I'd like to think, at least some semblance of common sense.
Correct me if I'm wrong because the whole point to me being here is to LEARN, not puff up in my "knowitallism" and refuse correction...
Airflow most definitely cools both the coil AND the vapor.
Explaining mechanical mod safety CANNOT be done using temperature control theory so what mod I'm using has EVERYTHING to do with it.
What is CDR?
Continuous Discharge Rate. Key word being Continuous. Keeping in mind this is about mechanical mods. I know if my build is low enough that I can't just keep wailing away on it or I'm going to have some serious trouble. I can't CONTINUALLY keep the fire button pressed because it will destroy the battery internals and vent. However I CAN take a very brief 1 or 2 second pull without having any issues provided I don't repeatedly do this and cross into the chain vaping realm and over DISCHARGE the battery. After that 1 or 2 second pull ... set it down ... vape something else ... cool your engines so to speak.
If I've said this once I've said it a million times ...
I DO NOT and WILL NEVER suggest to someone else "Hey, you ought to build super subohm". That would be beyond irresponsible. PERIOD. I don't have a problem with discussing it with someone who has proven to me that they know what they're doing. Even then I won't suggest that they go "even lower". That's for them to decide.
I want to learn and this thread taught quite a bit I assure you.
Looks like Mooch is going to grab 'em by the peach:Just a note.
When i speak of CDR I am talking Mooch tested CDR. Never believe Any rewrap label.
They have been known to label a 9 amp cell at 20 amps or higher.
Yep read that yesterday.Looks like Mooch is going to grab 'em by the peach:
https://www.reddit.com/r/electronic...changes_to_the_battery_ratings_tables_and_how
Nothing wrong with stainless on a mech, all I use. Fast ramp up and super clean taste. Nickel on the other hand is a different story.
Its only about a .01 ohm difference when SS316L is heatedI should give it try again then, I always had problems with SS316L on a mech. As soon as the coil heated up, it was completely different.
How do you build your coils? A bit lower than usual so it's on the sweet spot when heated?
On a side note, "fast ramp up and super clean taste" is exactly why I moved to NI80 back then (I've been using SS316L in normal RTAs, no mech) and I liked the flavor and feel with Ni80 more, but I guess NI80 vs SS316L is something where 10 people will have 12 opinions.
Yeah it’s one of those subjective things, why I added “for me” Some may say the opposite they don’t like the taste of ss, everyone’s tastes are different but it is definitely worth a try. Advanced vape supply has very good SS, along with some others.I should give it try again then, I always had problems with SS316L on a mech. As soon as the coil heated up, it was completely different.
How do you build your coils? A bit lower than usual so it's on the sweet spot when heated?
On a side note, "fast ramp up and super clean taste" is exactly why I moved to NI80 back then (I've been using SS316L in normal RTAs, no mech) and I liked the flavor and feel with Ni80 more, but I guess NI80 vs SS316L is something where 10 people will have 12 opinions.
Yeah it’s one of those subjective things, why I added “for me” Some may say the opposite they don’t like the taste of ss, everyone’s tastes are different but it is definitely worth a try. Advanced vape supply has very good SS, along with some others.
It ohms a bit lower than N80, so take that into account when building. The resistance will rise a bit when dry burning/pulsing, but you don’t notice a difference when wicked and juiced up because it doesn’t get as hot as when pulsing so as said the resistance doesn’t change much at all during vaping.
Basically, just saying be careful of your resistance when using stainless steel as a core wire.