Discussion in 'Vaping Health Related' started by ShadowMelt, Sep 13, 2016.
Shut up and stop it dude
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Could not tell ya, I have a pinched nerve in my back and neck that kind of over rides.
After I took a oxy 5mg and some lidocaine creme it has left. It was just a weird pain. I was kinda freaking out because I did nothing (no lifting) to cause the pain. I did read it had something to do with the Co2 gas and the diaphragm muscles. Darn it I can't blame vaping on it.
right shoulder pain the left I would be going to get my heart checked.
That pain floored my mom from her recent surgery.
I thought so as well but since it went away I'm good. I have a follow up with the surgeon on Monday. I'm starting a new job on Tuesday so hoping I'm healthy enough now to work. I need ecig money for my diy adventures.
Here's to your health
(I'd propose a toast, but I highly doubt that would be good for you right now)
ShadowMelt, I'm going to share my experience with you. I've been vaping for almost 5 years. I'm 52 years old.
In June 2016 my AST was 33 and my ALT was 41. In July 2017 my AST was 124 and my ALT was 76. My ultrasound did not show Fatty Liver but I would like to get a second opinion on the scans. (I think it's fatty liver, but I'm not a doctor) I don't drink and I don't take Tylenol. My doctor is not sure why the enzymes are elevated and wants me to see a specialist. I have no symptoms, I feel great. Like you I researched vaping/liver. I do not know if it's related but I would be curious to see if there are others who have no symptoms but have elevated enzymes. I decided to quit vaping to see if the blood tests change. I've quit coffee, sugar, and Diet Pepsi this year...why not get rid of all my vices?
Care to share the methodology of your "research"? Your "enzymes are elevated"? What is the baseline on those?
Do you even know what the difference is between an enzyme and a hormone?
Hint: you cannot hear am enzyme.....
In all seriousness though, why are you here? From your profile: Quit vaping 9/1/17 Monday at 3:29 PM
2 whole posts. Consider Yoga.
Research means once you are told there's something wrong with you, you google the hell out of it to see if someone else has the same problem.
Enzymes are elevated: my ALT is 124 reference range is 7-52. AST is 76 reference range is 13-39.
Enzymes mostly reside inside the liver. When the liver is injured these enzymes show up in the blood test.
I joined this forum June 27, 2014. Spent most of my time at ECF, joined in 2012. I don't always have a lot to say here.
OBW, I know you don't really care about my answers. You just seem to want to release some anger that is pent up inside you. The reason I posted here is to try and find out if someone has the same symptoms as me from the same causes. Right now I don't know what is making my blood tests all wonky. I smoked for over 30 years. I quit smoking by vaping, which I've been doing for almost 5 years. Now I'm have decided to quit vaping. In a few months I'll have blood tests again and see if there is any change. If I have no change then I'll post here again.
If vaping got you to quit smoking, that's a huge win. If after 5 yrs of vaping, you decide to quit, whatever your reasons, it's still a win, unless you should feel tempted to smoke, at any point. If you do, I would hope you'd consider "relapsing" to vaping, rather than smoking.
It's hard for me to imagine vaping causing any problems with the liver, but I'm not a biochemist, and every body is different. If quitting vaping can help you get your liver back to health, that would be a good thing. But I'd hate to think you succumbed once again to smoking, since eliminating vaping; lungs are just as important, especially to a former smoker who might still be at risk for smoking-related ailments, after 3 decades of smoking, no matter how long you've been quit. But it sounds to me like you know your body, and what it's supposed to do, so only you can decide if quitting vaping is the right thing for you to do, for WHATEVER reason -- not any of us.
I remember you from the DIY juice posts. It's been a long time since I posted there (ecf)
I've been wanting to quit vaping for a while now. I've been making my own juice for about 3 years now and I've lost interest in it. I've got a closet full of nautilus heads and unopened kayfuns, you know, for the apocalypse! The lady who got me into vaping is inheriting all my supplies. I owe her large for introducing me to vaping. I never thought I'd quit smoking but this helped me to do it.
I plan to never smoke another cigarette for the rest of my life. It is easy to say but I really mean it. If I ever got stressed, relapsing to vaping would be my choice. Everything else be damned. My mother quit smoking after 3 decades...she still died from lung cancer.
I really don't see how PG, VG, nicotine, and flavors could have any effect on the liver. As I said in my first post, I don't know if it's related but I'm curious to know if anyone else has the same problem. The only problem I ever had vaping was the mouth sores I used to get. Big canker sores. I only got them when I vaped vanilla flavors or sour flavors. I went back to mint flavors and never had another problem.
Thank you for the encouragement!
I have elevated enzymes but it is due to non alcoholic fatty liver.
I had a biopsy in order to find out and have heard of a test that's new and less invasive (but, of course more expensive) but my liver doctor did not use the word "ultrasound"
Your specialist (when you get there) will do a test to figure it out.
I had the biopsy 7 years ago and will have to get another one in 3.
I guess they shoot for every 10 years to make sure it doesn't turn to cancer.
I got my diagnosis 2 years before I even started vaping.
My liver doctor told me that right now what is important is that all the other test results are good because they tell you whether your liver is functioning properly or not.
BUT the test you took may have been a total fluke so I would suggest seeing a specialist right away to get your bloodwork done again.
I will show you why below.
These are two separate bloodwork results from the same facility that were taken one month apart.
AST - 210
ALT - 205
AST - 83
ALT - 110
As you can see the results are MORE than DOUBLE AST from just one month earlier from the same lab
and the ALT are almost DOUBLE and the SAME lady drew the blood BOTH times ONE MONTH apart.
So tell me WTF happened here?
I edited out my personal info on the second because I couldn't crop it out and show the date as proof that these tests can be flakey.
Nope. It's vaping. Ask her, she'll tell you. Is there not a hypochondriac forum someplace for these "ex vapers" / ANTZ types?
Stop vaping in bed and rolling on the MOD while you are sleeping, then the pain will go away!
You don't know jack shit. I asked why you are even here. You are correct, I don't give a shit about the crap you have to spout, and as far as my anger goes, its not pent up, I release it whenever I find people trying to undo the work that I and thousands of others have been doing to get people off the stinkys, all the while fighting the misinformation that is liberally spread about by Big Pharma, Big Tobacco and the NGO's and politicians that they own.
One out of two smokers will die before their time, and the research indicates that ecigs are 95% safer. This equates to many many people living longer if they use them.
Your contribution on this forum has been negligible. 2 posts prior to this nonsense. However, you think it is appropriate to spew your drivel here, after being mute for this long?
If you are truly sincere about your concerns, then best case scenario, you are one seriously selfish cunt. Instead of providing ammunition to those who oppose this life saving technology, why not employ your considerable
"research" skills, and perhaps stop drinking?
What causes??? You don't even know if your tests are anomalous, much less the causes of your "symptoms".
And if your research methodology really led you to believe that this is an appropriate venue for you to exercise your Munchhausen's Syndrome, then you have even bigger problems than you think.
Go back to the ECF, and peddle your neurotic paranoia there.
Well said Wolf
Thank you for sharing your information.
I did have two blood tests run July and August. Both were high but the August results were a tiny bit lowers. No lifestyle changes between the tests and labs drawn and tested by the same company. I looked back on a previous year's blood test and only the ALT was elevated and barely over normal. As for the ultrasound test, it's done the same as an ultrasound expectant parents would have done. I think so much depends on the tech's experience to get good pictures. A biopsy would give more definitive diagnosis.
Just curious, after your NAFL diagnosis what changes did the doctor suggest?
Well, as I said, only you can determine if vaping or quitting vaping is the right thing for you to be doing. My suspicion is that this problem with the liver enzymes has occurred on its own, with no relation to vaping -- correlation does not equal causation. I have some of the same concerns expressed by others, about misinformation being used against vaping, though I would not express those concerns quite so violently. It sounds as if you're considering quitting vaping for reasons other than your health, but that perhaps the health concerns are encouraging you to draw perhaps-erroneous conclusions about the role of vaping in those health concerns.
I'm not sure that a doctor, nor any other member of the health care establishment, is anyone to trust with regard to anything relating to vaping, as so many of them are merely paid flunkies of BP, spouting the party line, regardless of truth -- they think that truth is whatever THEY say it is, having no objective basis. A funny way for those ostensibly trained in scientific medicine to think, but BP has a lot of money and influence, and of course, money speaks with the loudest voice there is, to those of shallow character -- just because someone has a medical degree doesn't mean they have any sort of noble character at all, nor any respect for actual truth -- i.e., they've been brainwashed by those who foot the bills, who have their own axe to grind.
I've had my own issues with naysayers, who insist over and over and over, sometimes quite profanely, that vaping doesn't cause or exacerbate dehydration, that water is all one needs to stay hydrated, and on and on... when my own experience has been vastly different; I still drink coconut water daily, and though it doesn't always prevent the horrible leg/foot cramps that so often interrupt my sleep, it still keeps my feet and ankles from swelling painfully, so I keep my daily coconut water consumption. I've also been subjected to much laughter and ridicule, thx to that cretin Tripper, when I mention my electrolyte imbalance, but for me, coconut water helps me keep my sodium and potassium in good balance. As I said... every body is different; to assume that what is true for one human body is always true for every other human body is ignorance in the EXTREME. Perhaps there isn't a universal detriment to liver enzymes in vaping, but it may be true in your own case. More testing is definitely warranted.
I think you "get it". You realized that your own experience lead you to find a way to deal with a physical problem that occurred because of vaping. For your body, vaping gives you issues with dehydration. Not every person has the same reaction to everything. Think about peanuts. Some people can eat peanuts and be fine, others can eat peanuts and have a severe reaction. The thing is we KNOW the peanuts caused the reaction. Somehow along the way you found out coconut water helps you. I imagine through trial and error you found what works for you. That is what I'm trying to do. I'm looking to see if anyone else had a similar experience to see if there is something I can change to bring my numbers back in range. By asking questions I received a response above from someone with a similar story that showed their experience to NOT be related to vaping.
I find it interesting to see such negative comments posted in response to my story. (Not from you)
No where did I say that vaping was bad or that vaping caused problems with my liver. I even posted that I think it's NAFLD.
Should have been exercise and losing a little weight but I am a special case and am unable to exercise normally.
Here is my bio to keep me from having to explain it again: http://vapingunderground.com/threads/5150sick.622/
I still try to exercise my upper body and I made some changes my eating habits.
I have been on a bunch of different medicines throughout my lifetime and am on a few now so that is more than likely part of the problem.
10 to 15 years ago doctors would pump you full of Tylenol now they know that isn't a good idea.
I was told to avoid acetaminophen at all costs and if I must take something it should be ibuprofen instead.
If I end up in the hospital I tell them I am allergic to acetaminophen because that is about the only way to get them to not force it on you.
Elevated liver enzymes last year. I went to ER based on abd pain but they didn't do anything but rule out heart attack and blood clot. If your enzymes are elevated I would pursue it. I ended up being diagnosed with fatty liver disease and auto immune liver disease. I do want to quit vaping but afraid I will relapse to smoking. I'm conducting personal research and learning everyday.
Not to belabor the point Andria, but that ship already sailed. She has quit, determined through her "research" that vaping was the cause, and apparently feels compelled to continue posting here, ostensibly in order to further her "research", by discussing common symptoms with other afflicted vapers.
I have no problem with anybody who decides to quit vaping. The available data clearly shows the vast majority resume smoking however. I do take issue with the amateur scaremongering. That should be left to the professionals at the FDA, Big Pharma, and Big Tobacco.
Never mind that so far, she has found none, she is not one to give up so easily, and is still firmly convinced that this forum, on which she previously made 2 whole posts, is the most appropriate, and relevant place to air her urgent concerns.
Any potential vapers whose Aunt is convinced vaping is of the Devil, and goes searching for dirt, now has another resource. "Former Vaper afflicted with Lever Disease" Source: Vapingunderground .com
Former vapers are much more compelling than the usual paid shills. And if those potential vapers are discouraged, and follow Aunties advice, and try the gum, or patch. fail to quit, and as the dismal stats clearly show they will, continue smoking and die early deaths, or become suicidal on Chantix so what?
This is about her FFS. What could possibly be more important than that?
Fuck Dr. Farsalinos, and his work. His research is not even based on Google! Quack! She knows better!
Good thing she has you to mollycoddle and support her. Otherwise, this would be a vaping forum and not... Oh my... wait a second....
And the absolute arrogance and conceit of her belief that she is going to succeed where the FDA, Big Pharma, and Big Tobacco have failed is just staggering. Don't you think that if there existed even the slightest scintilla of an indication that there was a minute possibility that vaping was related to any disorder involving elevated enzymes that we would not have already seen it on CNN as "breaking news" for a week straight? But hey, what are all their billions against a narcissistic, neurotic, estrogen based lifeform powered by Google? One who "just feels" her intuitions beat actual science hands down, just cuz.
I've been told I lack empathy. Perhaps I do. Foolishly, I expend considerable time, effort and expense trying to get as many people off of the stinkys as I can. Perhaps my time would be better spent in hospices, comforting those dying of cancer?
Two whole fucking posts here since 2014 before this shit show. Now, she expects the community she was such a vital part of, to pander to her anxiety disorder? Fuck that.
In all fairness though, I was remiss and wrong to call her a selfish cunt, and for that, I apologize to any and all that I may have offended by that remark.
The fact that she is still smearing this site with her bullshit, shows she is many orders worse than that.
Oh c'mon wolfie.. tell us how you REALLY feel.
I think you told me that once, when I was ranting about the FDA and ANTZ in general.
As I said, I really can't see how vaping could affect liver enzymes... but I'm not a doctor, nor a biochemist; there may be some interaction with her particular biology that might edge it in that direction, if she already has a tendency in that direction. Just as vaping caused such a terrible exacerbation of my chronic dehydration that my electrolytes went completely bonkers -- it certainly doesn't do that to everyone, nor even a majority... but a few of us, definitely.
But I admit, those who stop vaping... for whatever reason.... do tend to become relapsed smokers. That's why I said that if she did quit vaping, but started thinking of smoking, that I hoped she would "relapse" to vaping, rather than smoking. My own experience was that quitting the first time, thx to vaping, was like falling off a log. The 2nd time, after a relapse to smoking... damned difficult, requiring a firm effort of will, and also WTA, to make it stick. As far as I can tell, the greatest superiority of vaping over all other methods of quitting is that it's a direct replacement; you don't use it for a while and then stop, unless you have some huge overriding reason for doing so -- not being able to breathe anymore, maybe. The biggest problem with all the other methods is that once you quit, and then stop the method you used to quit... then what? You have no backstop -- vaping is its own backstop.
I'm suspicious in general, myself, about those with low post counts who have anything negative to say about vaping... but I remember her from ECF, so I pretty much parked that idea at the door. My feeling remains that her liver enzymes chose this particular time to go haywire, without regard to vaping; it's in the nature of the human mind to seek, and see, causes where they don't actually exist. Vaping may not be the cause... but it's certainly human nature to wonder if this new-ish thing one is doing, is responsible for some new problem that may arise.
That is quite a story. I'm inspired by your sense of humor dealing with your situation. I had to laugh at your description of the ProTank. I like your idea of telling them you are allergic in order to avoid the acetaminophen. It's funny, if you say no to something people try to bully/push you into taking what they offer. If you tell them you are allergic, they leave you alone.
Good luck to you!
As Andria said earlier, if you relapse, I hope it's to vaping and not smoking. I started at 18mg in 2012 and worked my way down to about 3mg. There at the end I just kept adding PG to a bottle to keep diluting my juice. It didn't keep much flavor either but that also took away from full vaping enjoyment. Wasn't much taste and I felt too lazy to rewick my coil.
Don't you love how doctors can rule out things but they cannot tell you what actually caused it?
This is not very smart or a healthy way to vape as burned cotton and gunked up coils is a great way to inhale that crap they claim is in vapor.. Now remember this is only my opinion and not based on any scientific testing..................
Until you can show a post where I said that vaping was harmful, your posts are meaningless.
I wrote a response to the OP in regards to a question he had posted. He asked about the experiences of other vapers. I stated that I believed that I knew why my enzymes were elevated. I did not say anything about vaping being the cause.
I did quit vaping but I never said that I quit because I found out vaping was the reason for my elevated results.
Please provide proof that I have said ANYTHING negative about vaping.
^^^^ gotta agree: professional ANTZ would be all over that like stink on shit
I also have NASH and RA - as a bonus, last January my RA decided to attack my liver - awesome experience
Neither my doctor, my rheumatologist nor my gastrointestinologist suggested I stop vaping
However, they suggested I give up grains, cereals, processed sugar and most processed foods and vegetable oils. I did and guess what?
Enzyme levels normal, RA in remission and my liver is behaving again
I sure don't envy that diet... but I'm delighted to hear that you're back in good health!
Well, I went into it kicking and screaming but I'll tell you what: the positive changes in my body (not just the diseased parts either) and how it functions have been significant and my thinking is much clearer than it was a year ago
Weird stuff, like sleeping straight through night and waking up refreshed No longer fatigued, skin tags disappeared, dry eye problems vanished and other major things that are pretty astonishing
Vaping isn't the only thing the FDA gets wrong, all that Frankenfood they allow on the market and the drugs to cure the problems they cause is surreal
I'm still just frothing at the mouth about them allowing SULFITES!!!!!!!!! AAAARGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! But those bastard chemicals forced me to start reading labels, so when I had to start checking levels of fats (for me and my crotchety gallbladder) and sodium (for my husband's BP), I was already with the program.
Are you eating ZC?
Why did I just see this?
Had never heard of ZC so looked it up. Not at all.
Can have all the fruit (except watermelon) and vegetables (except potatoes or vegetable based fats) I want
Ain't no one getting outta this motherfucker alive!!
I say enjoy what you like, listen to your body and stop listening to the drug peddlers that pose as doctors.
And a Few little life lessons I learned along the way.
Never cheap out on toilet paper.
Always wear clean undies (if you wear undies, if you don't you really should start cause shit will fall as you age and ain't no one wants to see that.)
Lots of body spray is not a substitute for washing your clothes and bathing with actual soap and water.
Gas station or grocery store sushi is more trustworthy than politicians, google, facebook, and most internet forums.
laugh more, bitch often, and joke em if they can't take a fuck.
You sir, are a one cranky goat. Lol
Trust your own experiences and ignore the "it can't be vaping!!!" shrill cries. It will be interesting to see what vaping tons of VG and various flavors
Results in years down the road. I'm betting on vaping being safer than cigs but I do limit that sticky VG
where those that value our hearing avoid pg.
start reading labels , chances are you are also eating a ton of it.
Have done a little reading and vaping with pg hasn't been scientifically shown to impair hearing, Facebook claims notwithstanding. Pg directly in the ear has been shown to adversely affect hearing in studies. Same claim regarding hearing impairment has been made for nicotine and smoking ya know, and studies on those have not been consistent in the findings. I'm more concerned about the lungs so I choose to minimize my juice intake to about 2.5 mg/ml a day. Far better for me than smoking and I listen to what my body tells me. Beats online conjecture
I agree with you. I don't need my ears to BREATHE. I vape about 5-ish ml's per day, currently at 86.5% PG. And I can breathe ok. If I vaped more than 15% VG, breathing would be down the toilet... or actually, in the emergency room, which I can't afford. And my sense of hearing is nearly as keen as my sense of smell. There must be a beagle in my family tree somewhere.
30-40 MLs of High or MAX VG a day here with No Pain or Breathing Problems. Over 30% PG for me is like swallowing razor blades.
There you go making a good point Steve, we've all seen folks post different effects of vaping, with different sensitivities and body reactions to pg, vg, flavors, etc. and that's why I think paying attention to your own body is best.
Actually might wind up in a position I will not be able to vape as much soon and going to be mixing up some 18-24MG for a test. Wonder if it will help or not? I enjoy vaping and at 3MG it isn't like I need it. If I can't vape I can go without just I don't want to!
Ok, not to beat a dead horse but I've recently been searching for info on this very issue.
I started having what I thought was gallbladder pain, but I had no idea why. I would feel gurgling (gas?), and what felt like kind of spasming pain on my right side where my gallbladder\liver are.
Went to the doc, he said it was probably my gallbladder and sent me for an ultrasound and blood work. Ultrasound was clear, liver enzymes were slightly elevated but still normal. Cholesterol was the same, slightly high\normal.
So, I thought I have to stop eating fatty foods.
Tried that for 4 days, and the pain continued despite my best efforts of eating healthily. I had noticed that sometimes the pain started up after vaping, but I couldn't see how there could be a connection. Despite my best efforts at trying to control the variables in my life it seemed like there was only one left. Vaping.
Now, I've been vaping for about 3 years, used it to quit smoking, and wouldn't think twice about doing it again or recommending it as a quitting aid..... but the continued use for me has to stop due to the pain. I don't think there's anything 'wrong' with vaping, but it seems that a very small sub-set of people get pain localized on their right side from vaping. This has been a developed thing for me, I was fine for 2.5 years....
I have a suspicion that somehow it's muscular, as when the pain starts up I can alleviate it by using a massage ball on my back directly behind where it hurts on my abdomen. That doesn't seem like a gall-bladder or liver pain.... but I haven't had a chance to report my findings to my Dr. I have a suspicion that he'll just say "well, if the pain went away when you stopped you shouldn't do it" lol
For the record, not shitting on vaping AT ALL. I know from reading this thread that there's a 99% chance that I will get attacked for posting this. Probably get attacked because this is my first post, or I'll get accused of promoting smoking or some other non-sense. It's a really big bummer that I have to stop because of the above mentioned reasons, but after trying to find info on why this is happening I feel like I need to explain my story so others that might have the same issues can find quicker help than I did.
AGAIN; Not shitting on vaping I know it works as a quitting aid, and virtually no people experience the symptoms I and a few others, are experiencing but please don't call people crazy or shills for talking about their health and trying to get answers.
I have found zero scientific literature or studies that have reported anything like this which leads me to believe there is such a small sub-set of people experiencing these issues it's generally not reported. To the others in this thread who have reported similar symptoms and have been attacked by people who don't understand your pain, you're not alone.
EDIT: Doesn't matter if it's MAX VG 80/20, 70/30, or any iteration in between - same feeling. Also, I've been vape free for 4 days and the pain and all bloating\spasming at the site has gone away. I can sleep on my stomach again too, which is nice!
@Beefbisquit please do not take this as an attack but reading your post was making me think about your style of vaping. Are you a Cloudz Bro vaper who takes deep inhales and blows monstrous clouds? Just a thought because what you said about muscular pain. Good Luck and hopefully you can continue to vape on.
Nah, I use a SMOK GX2/4 with 2 batteries only. Run at 55W with an octo-coil, but I don't take massive hoots.....
The other thing is; I puff shatter\buds and I take those as deep in my lungs as I can. No effects.... also, when I vape now, it feels like there is gas moving around in my abdomen, and it's very high up under my rib cage. Unlike anything I've ever experienced....
And I didn't take your post as an attack, just as a fact finding question. Thanks for the response!
I have read that some people get gas from vaping and I wonder if a Gas-X pill might be the simplest answer. Might be worth a shot?
What REALLY throws me for a loop is that it seemingly started out of nowhere.... I haven't tried gas-x though, maybe I'll give it a shot.
One other thing I thought about was it kind of started after I got my new vape.... I always used kanthal wire.... but the new rig used stainless only. I can't see how it would make a difference, but I would love to be able to identify the exact cause of my pain so I can eliminate that variable and continue vaping. lol
Best to go see a qualified healthcare expert you will none here I assure you