The "Real" N.E.T. & Herbal Thread.. ;)

[Cessnapix]

Has anyone been doing anymore extractions with just clear grain alcohol, or vodka? What are your results if so? Any easier on coils?

I did try some black tea with my standard 25pg/70%vg/5%dw base, instead of using pg then mixing it back in. I kept the temp around 150 for a half hour. I like really strong black tea. This came out very good but may be too strong for others. I am considering this with some whole leaf as well. Thinking the vg/pg with nicotine will act more as a solvent?

Wrapping the whole leaf with layers of cheese cloth as mentioned earlier.
I am just wondering about the talk a while back with PGA. If anyone has done this yet; how your nets came out? I would like to try a couple of other processes.

 

[Smoky Blue]

I find, even when i use vg, or just straight PGA.. letting the leaves be free in the jar/bowl/etc works best..
Just a slight crush will release the flavors..
Too much grating on the leaves/root/etc or packing them into a bag, seems to take longer..

then again, I have adhd.. *whistles..

 

[Cessnapix]

Well we all have it to some degree

Trying to get to somethign that doesn't gunk coils...that's all.

Maybe I need to focus more on filters?

 

[Cramptholomew]

Well we all have it to some degree

Trying to get to somethign that doesn't gunk coils...that's all.

Maybe I need to focus more on filters?

Filters... Medium 6 micron lab paper filters.

These: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0019ZEXSA

It'll take two days to filter, but the results are very clear. Haven't had TOO much gunking since I tried these.

 

[Cessnapix]

Filters... Medium 6 micron lab paper filters.

These: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0019ZEXSA

It'll take two days to filter, but the results are very clear. Haven't had TOO much gunking since I tried these.

ok thanks glad they worked. i had them in my cart a while back with an erlenmyer flask and a vacum pump venturi, that fits on the faucet, but wanted to try this 1st. I will order the paper then if I like the results i can get the vacum set up later...if needed.....I don't lke much pg but if I can get buy with 20% or less flavoring in pg then I am fine. I don't know if they even use those venturi pumps anymore?

Thanks for the link!

 

[Smoky Blue]

all i use is time and ss 300-500 screens, followed by coffee filters, then a cotton ball filter..
but i do not grind up my material, a just crush it lightly..

I haven't had coil issues.. then again.. I think I have had 10 successful extracts, out of 25+

takes time to learn, but well worth the results..
and just like taste, we can all vary..

 

[Cessnapix]

I have been reading some interesting threads on Ecf, older threads. I can't remember the one who started this particular thread but the resident ecf expert, Dvap who has done a lot of work and was the one that came up with WTA's. I read some published articles refrenced and strange enough water is a very good solvent for extracting nicotine and other alkaloids. The problem is that it is too good and will also grab the chlorophyll and some of the other unwanted alkaloids. If i was a chemist and new how to seperate these alkaloids I would use water or steam. The percentage of nicotine yeald is as high as very dangerous solvents. however i am sure it must be hard to seperate further? The thread was mainly talking about using PGA at around 190 proof. i can get 151 barcadi here and some 100 proof jimmy johnson moonshine but that is not high enough for it to evoporate and just a bit to much water in it. 190 proof would be nice, and i think what the experiment was based on. I I can't remember what it takes to buy the lab grade alcohol. even most moon shiners can not get that high with out running 3-4 times and still can only get around 180 proof. They do make molecular seives for getting out more water to around 190 to mix with a 50/50 blend in gassoline. maybe a store bought 100 proof can yeild about half the original volume at 190 proof?

BTW they consenssis(sp) seems to be to leave the masseration alone in the frezzer and not stir or touch it at all to cloud the mix.

some of you may have already read this thread and published articles!

This is a fast cold masceration process. Heat and long term is what seems to pull out the chlorophyll and other junk giving it a green hay taste. I will through up a link to this at some point. interesting read but does not give the total process. but enough. The problem is measuring it. You can however get an aproximate by going carefully by the recipe and assume the highest levels. However I would not advise going higher with the tobacco when working with unmeasurable results of WTA's

i am very interested in the WTA's. I ordered some from a company that was founded by these guys on ecf and actually endorsed by Dvap who does not or didnt indorse wta's in the past. Whether he is now part of the co. I am not sure. They are expensive as hell. About $2 /ml at 24mg/ml of total alkaloids. i think, don't quote me here but 90%of those alkaloids being nicotine. 10% are other alkaloids we get from smoking. The sensassion is suppose to be more of a head rush like 1st cig in the moring type of head rush from these alkaloids at that level. They do sell ejuice as well as DIY unflavored WTA's. it may even be wise to cut that dose down a little bit more especially if you want to vape constantly. or just use it as a cigg. replacement.

It looks fairly easy to do but in order to quantify the results the only way to measure the alkaloids you want, other than using an HPGLC, is to free base the salts. I know nothing about this. However I can learn fairly fast.

i do know since i started vaping I have gained over 50 lbs in about 20 months. So it is not just the nicotine that is working on us from smoking. I would like to know if others have gained weight also from just vaping ultra pure nicotine rather than some of the other alkaloids in the tobacco.

This method is not for everyone and if you are happy with using nicotine in the pure form than thats fine.

 

[BigNasty]

I have been reading some interesting threads on Ecf, older threads. I can't remember the one who started this particular thread but the resident ecf expert, Dvap who has done a lot of work and was the one that came up with WTA's. I read some published articles refrenced and strange enough water is a very good solvent for extracting nicotine and other alkloids. The problem is that it is too good and will also grab the chlorophyll and some of the other unwanted alkloids. If i was a chemist and new how to seperate these alkloids I would use water or steam. The percentage of nicotine yeald is as high as very dangerous solvents. however i am sure it must be hard to seperate further? The thread was mainly talking about using PGA at around 180 proof. i can get 151 barcadi here and some 100 proof jimmy johnson moonshine but that is not high enough for it to evoporate and just a bit to much water in it. 190 proof would be nice, and i think what the experiment was based on. I vcan't remember what it takes to buy the lab grade alcohol. even most moon shiners can not get that high with out running 3-4 times and still can only get around 180 proof. They do make molecular seives for getting out more water to around 190 to mix with a 50/50 blend in gassoline. maybe a store bought 100 proof can yeild about half the original volume at 190 proof?

BTW they consenssis(sp) seems to be to leave the masseration alone in the frezzer and not stir or touch it at all to cloud the mix.

some of you may have already read this thread and published articles!

This is a fast cold masceration process. Heat and long term is what seems to pull out the chlorophyll and other junk giving it a green hay taste. I will through up a link to this at some point. interesting read but does not give the total process. but enough. The problem is measuring it. You can however gt an aproximate by going carefully by the recipe and assume hte highest levels. However I would not advise going higher with the tobacco when working with unmeasurable results of WTA's

i am very interested in the WTA's. I ordered some from a company that was founded by these guys on ecf and actually endorsed by Dvap who does not or didnt indorse wta's in the past. Whether he is now part of the co. I am not sure. They are expensive as hell. About $2 /ml at 24mg/ml of total alkloids. i think, don't quote me here but 90%of those alkloids being nicotine. 10% are other alkloids we get from smoking. The sensassion is suppose to be more of a head rush like 1st cig in the moring type of head rush from these alkloids at that level. They do sell ejuice as well as DIY unflavored WTA's. it may even be wise to cut that dose down a little bit more especially if you want to vape constantly. or just use it as a cigg. replacement.

It looks fairly easy to do but inorder to quantify the results the only way to measure the alkloids you want, other than using an HPGLC, is to free base the salts. I know nothing about this. However I can learn fairly fast.

i do know since i started vaping I have gained over 50 lbs in about 20 months. So it is not just the nicotine that is working on us from smoking. I would like to know if others have gained weight also from just vaping ultra pure nicotine rather than some of the other alkloids in the tobacco.

This method is not for everyone and if you are happy with using nicotine in the pure form than thats fine.

I won't bore you with how I got my hands on some of the older stuff dvap was working on but I did and it was glorious.
If the craving itch gets to much I just break out some snuff or the last of my snus stash. But sub ohming scratches that itch pretty well for me.

Cessenapix Honestly I cannot say trying to quit smoking made me top off my fat ass tank.. but I am down 85lbs from what I was.. Hopefully will be down another 80-100 by may 31 of next year.

 

[Cessnapix]

Hey if I can learn more it will not bore me. I find this very intriuging. It makes sense that the nicotine is not the only alkaloid. to effect us.
Congrats on the weight loss. My scales at home don't show as bad as my Dr. and I know they mess with them the nurses all but admit it.......lol they have to be.... I wanted to try soem of this out and read that down around the 5mg/ml still gives you a good hit. so if I can dilute it by a factor of 4 15ml will get me 60ml???i will give it a test before I do the whole 15ml.

i am sure the only reason why DVap may have not liked this was because the alkaloids could not be measured in what people are calling WTA.?

 

[Smoky Blue]

Pretty much, Cessna.. and by using a wta, you can't control all of the wta's..

This is why it got me to playing with the herbals, and honestly.. it's keeping me happier than messing with the tobacco leaves and cigar shops.
Kinda funny.. I can go to my grocery store, grab up some sage or basil leaves from the veggie section, and have at it..
and it's ok.. it's keeping me happier than I was messing with name brand flavoring companies..

 

[Cessnapix]

I can't do herbals as a vape. I had somemthig with rosemary in it the other day and didn't care for it. But, to each his own, we all need to find what works for us.

i guess what really is dicouraging is the amount of money that is spent fighting the political/social aspects of vaping rather than science and ways to improve things.

I am sure most of the big tobacco companies already know most of this crap and are just holding it close.

I think the regular nicotine will work most of the time an then nets or WTA as needed. unless I can make some succesfully?

 

[Smoky Blue]

Regular nic should work. The wta's are a fine line, Cessna.. they work for some.
The only complaints I have heard is that it is too close to a cig and that can make others scared of going back to cigs..

 

[Cessnapix]

Well thats always a problem. .....I really liked smoking.....But I really don't want a stinky. I stopped for 6 yeasr once. Every 4th of of July i would have Just one. No problem! Well you would think after 6 1/2 years I would have it beat....I bummed one from my brother inlaw who I usually did on that day. Jumped in my car and drove around the corner to a little store and bought 2 packs and went back to the party. That was it..... all over with, that fast.

Around that same time my ex's grandfather turned 90, or 92 years old and did the same thing. We all said hey he is 92 years old if he wants to smoke let hime be. I am pretty sure he use to sneak them anyways. He just didn't want the old lady's bitching at him

 

[BigNasty]

Well thats always a problem. .....I really liked smoking.....But I really don't want a stinky. I stopped for 6 yeasr once. Every 4th of of July i would have Just one. No problem! Well you would think after 6 1/2 years I would have it beat....I bummed one from my brother inlaw who I usually did on that day. Jumped in my car and drove around the corner to a little store and bought 2 packs and went back to the party. That was it..... all over with, that fast.

Around that same time my ex's grandfather turned 90, or 92 years old and did the same thing. We all said her he is 92 years old if he wants to smoke let hime be. I am pretty sure he use to sneak them anyways. He just didn't want the old lady's bitching at him

Ya know I worked in a nursing home and for the damned life of me I always thought it was cruel and unusual punishment when the asshole doctors would tell a 75+ year old patient the coffee and cig were verboten.
THEY ARE 75, 80 and 95+ years of age in a shitty nursing home and suffering from dementia or worse and terminal or sitting in diapers, why screw with the few enjoyments in life they have left used since the 30s or 40s. Hell the Government gave a cig ration out in every c-rat can and many a gi picked up the habit then.
Why on gods green after fighting in at least 2 wars would you tell them NO SMOKES FOR YOU!!!Hell a few should have just been given a healthy dose of daily whiskey and a pack of smokes and told to sit out and enjoy the sunshine.

 

[Cessnapix]

Amen brother! These vetrans went through hell and at there age anyone trying to control there life by not smoking or drinking should walk their shoes.

I am sure there where many a night they never thought they would step foot back on US soil, or where ever they where from. Leave em alone! A cigg. at that age isn't doing any harm.

If anything maybe helping them in more ways than one.

Don't mean to hijack the thread ranting here! Sorry!

 

[Cessnapix]

I bought some unflavored DIY 24mg /ml WTA from Aroma Ejuice. To soon to tell but will update more later.

I also tried making some using the cold extraction in the freezer method with only 100proof 100% grain alcohol. I used some whole leaf air dried burley i had ans well as some dark leaf. I did 4 hour batches with not sirring or touching. Just left it in the frezzer. The alcohol was in the freezer overnight before I did this. I made one batch then ran the same batch again with more tobacco and then another batch with double the tobacco and 6 hours in the freezer. Filtered several times with tripled up coffee filters several times, then evaporated down to about 1/4 the volume. It got a little coudy again but still a nice amber color so i filterd again and put away for now. the smell of the alcohol had evaporated off so I need to mix this with some vg and see ho it came out.

I am not optomistic on a WTA but the freezer and short masceration time should have kept out the chlorophyll for a decent NET.

After all this even if it does prove to be a good NET or even a WTA it is way cheaper to buy the stuff already made then it is to buy the alcohol and tobacco and not a lab grade process either.

 

[MrScaryZ]

ok to move my small post.. this is what I started last night:

me.. I am doing an acid cigar..
this time.. changing it up a bit..
1 menthol crystal
around a handful of chopped cigar.. no scales so.. *shrugs
but this time..
1 cinnamon stick
vg to cover..
in the crock pot for over night

will let it sit up for 1 week..

*update.. took it out of my crock pot this morning.. the cinnamon stick has already crumbed.. which is good! and the one menthol crystal has dissolved, since i can not seem to find it..I did not dump any of the cigar, but I did top off with a half and half of 151 and some more vg to fill my half pint jar up a bit more.. i stired and shook it around a bit, and strained a 1ml syringe.. and tossed it into a 5ml bottle with the rest vg..

light, very light.. so I hope this one week steep might help it a bit better..

Ive done this with a colorado herb haha it works... So you have a two scenario process the extraction of the nicotine with the cigars and the flavor..
How are you gauging nicotine level? just curious as I have messed around a bit with just pure essential oils etc but have not gone full steam yet.. this sparks my interest

 

[chinoy]

Interesting this is how I started out.
Then I realized how pointless it was.
Now I just buy 100% Natural Oils and Extracts and use them.
I have introduced a line of Herbal Vapes. The most popular and powerfull one is the Tulsi Vape.
I felt the effect in 48 hours. It felt like a cloud had been lifted from my mind.

Have in stock Cinnamon leaf oil. And Cinnamon Bark Oil.
All you need is to add 1 Drop. In 10 ML.
Getting it to blend is the real challenge.
Easier to blend are the natural extracts. I have done the extracts for Dates, Figs, Raisins. These go well with tobacco flavors.

Natural Smoke and Oak Wood Extract are my two favs for tobacco mixes. (Its critical that you dont use wood when doing the Natrual Smoke Extract).

In the early days I would spend 2 hours every day processing my NETs. What that process was would take a few pages to type out.
Now I just hand over the leafs to a company. They produce absolute from it. And I just drop a pin head into my Juice nuke shake and its done.

I have a post with all the Natural Oils and Extracts we work with. Ill do a cut and past from my forum in a bit.
And what oil helps with what. This line was developed with the help off doctor in Ayurvedic medicine.

 

[Cessnapix]

When you say a doctor of Ayurvedic medicine helped you develop this line of oils was that intended for the use of vaping these essential oils?

When you say "doctor in Ayurvedic medicine", are you talking an MD, or PHD in natural medicine? I ask this for a specific reason!!!! There are many self proclaimed Doctors of natural medicine that do not have an actual degree in anything. I do agree that most pharmacology is developed by natural plants. I also have great respect for these people with the knowledge of natural healing of plants passed down from one generation to another.

However;
I do not advocate vaping essential oils just because they are 100% natural.

 

[ClaireW]

I'm posting in here too so I can find this thread easy.

 

[MrScaryZ]

Essential oils have to be broken down with alcohol just a tad sometimes .I do not always use Alcohol I just did some Anise and Horehound wonderful mix and I did not break them down Its only good for a RBA or a RDA as the oils not broken down will toast a regular atomizer different oils require different concentrations...

I did the same reposted so I can find this thread

 

[ClaireW]

I'm assuming I can use any teas? With cold pg extraction? Had anyone done this successfully? Leave in tea bag our not? Thank you!

 

[Smoky Blue]

yes, you can do this with cold pg, but it will take longer and you may need to refresh your tea supply a few times to get the strength you need. (check it every other day)

 

[ClaireW]

Any suggestions for fav teas?

If I put mason jar in water in Crock pot. Do I leave mason jar uncovered?

 

[ClaireW]

Oh. Does it matter if I leave in tea bags. Or better to use loose tea? Thank you thank you!

 

[Smoky Blue]

i just use the tea bags..
but i do have a strainer..
depends on if the tea is loose leaf, or bagged..

 

[ClaireW]

Just started a couple of teas in crock pot.

I only have about a inch of water. Any rule of thumb for amount of water?

This batch I added a little distilled water and then about a cup og PG. A few tea bags in each mason jar. One is regular tea. The other is a chamomile with a hint of orange flavor.

 

[Smoky Blue]

make sure the water is about a inch over what level is in the jar..
that way the heat is distributed evenly.. or so i have heard..
keep it at warm over night and you should be fine..
you might be ok with one cycle, then again, test your strength..

 

[ClaireW]

My one prob about crock pot is possibility of mold.

I've seen a unfinished cup of tea that only had sugar in it form mold after being left on desk for a few days.

I've heard of vendor juices containing traces of mold. If true not sure how mold formed.

Thoughts anyone?

 

[Smoky Blue]

when you have anything "organic" you take that chance..
as far as vender juice, that is why i make my own

 

[acidrain23]

I tried doing some oolong to make a tea vape. I'm afraid to vape it because it smells disgustingly like latex for some reason. Gross!
Think this one might have gotten too hot, probably will try again with just a warm water bath or a cold extraction and a different tea possibly.

But, I've also been working on clove, cinnamon, nutmeg, star anise, and schezwan peppercorn. So far, I've just been filling up 2 oz bottles with the lightly crushed spices (I sieved them first to remove small particles) and covering with a 50/50 mixture of PG and VG. Then the bottles were "heat cycled" for two weeks, by warming them up several times a day in a boiling water bath. Then I let them age for a full two months before decanting and filtering (strainer/sieve, then into a permanent coffee filter, then through filter paper- finally going into a large syringe with cotton).

So far I've only tried the clove, but it is delicious! You get the woody notes and some floral notes that are lacking in artificial clove flavoring. I mixed it 50/50 with an apple concoction I'm working on and it is probably the best DIY I've made to date. Yum! The cinnamon smells amazing so I'm looking forward to trying that too. Going to combine that one with FA Black Tea, and some orange flavorings to make "Russian Tea"- should be good! The star anise, I'm thinking about combining with lemon, mint and possibly neroli or bergamont, but probably wont get around to that until later this year.

I'm also planning on trying some tobaccos but not really sure where to start just yet. And my friend works in a coffee shop, so we are going to get to work on the perfect coffee vape! More ideas than time or money, lol.

 

[Smoky Blue]

I tried doing some oolong to make a tea vape. I'm afraid to vape it because it smells disgustingly like latex for some reason. Gross!
Think this one might have gotten too hot, probably will try again with just a warm water bath or a cold extraction and a different tea possibly.

all you need to do is place it in a small jar/bowl then place it in a bigger pot..
fill up with water till it covers the amount of fluid in the jar/bowl and a lil extra..
turn it on low heat for about 30 min..

let it cool then mix up your juice.. i use between 2-6% of it in mine..

But, I've also been working on clove, cinnamon, nutmeg, star anise, and schezwan peppercorn. So far, I've just been filling up 2 oz bottles with the lightly crushed spices (I sieved them first to remove small particles) and covering with a 50/50 mixture of PG and VG. Then the bottles were "heat cycled" for two weeks, by warming them up several times a day in a boiling water bath. Then I let them age for a full two months before decanting and filtering (strainer/sieve, then into a permanent coffee filter, then through filter paper- finally going into a large syringe with cotton).

that red bit is a no no

So far I've only tried the clove, but it is delicious! You get the woody notes and some floral notes that are lacking in artificial clove flavoring. I mixed it 50/50 with an apple concoction I'm working on and it is probably the best DIY I've made to date. Yum! The cinnamon smells amazing so I'm looking forward to trying that too. Going to combine that one with FA Black Tea, and some orange flavorings to make "Russian Tea"- should be good! The star anise, I'm thinking about combining with lemon, mint and possibly neroli or bergamont, but probably wont get around to that until later this year.

sounds good

I'm also planning on trying some tobaccos but not really sure where to start just yet. And my friend works in a coffee shop, so we are going to get to work on the perfect coffee vape! More ideas than time or money, lol.

i'd stick with cold exaction for tobbys.. but that is just me..

 

[acidrain23]

Smoky, thanks for the tips! Regarding the boiling water bath, I should have clarified that what I'm doing is bringing the water to a near boil, turning the heat off, then adding the bottles (which are room temp) to the hot water. I figure the bottles are absorbing some of the heat, bringing the overall temperature to around 190F, but I never broke out the thermometer to check. It may be too much heat- I will check that! I think the temps are fine for woody spice material, but probably too hot for anything leafy, like tea.

Going to try some cold extracts, we'll see. Might as well start now since they take a while. I have some vanilla going, but going to let those age out for 6+ months (already been a month!). Waiting is no big deal- I'm a bit of a homebrewer too and used to make mead- some of those batches took 2+ years to age until they were ready! No problem- make and then forget it exists for a while.

 

[Smoky Blue]

Smoky, thanks for the tips! Regarding the boiling water bath, I should have clarified that what I'm doing is bringing the water to a near boil, turning the heat off, then adding the bottles (which are room temp) to the hot water. I figure the bottles are absorbing some of the heat, bringing the overall temperature to around 190F, but I never broke out the thermometer to check. It may be too much heat- I will check that! I think the temps are fine for woody spice material, but probably too hot for anything leafy, like tea.

Going to try some cold extracts, we'll see. Might as well start now since they take a while. I have some vanilla going, but going to let those age out for 6+ months (already been a month!). Waiting is no big deal- I'm a bit of a homebrewer too and used to make mead- some of those batches took 2+ years to age until they were ready! No problem- make and then forget it exists for a while.

i tend to keep it at near boil for about 20 min..
just keep turning the heat down and keep an eye on your water in the bigger pot..
i don't use a thermometer, but i do take my jar out every now and then and swirl it..

 

[ClaireW]

Next extraction. Going to start it today

 

[InMyImage]

@Smoky Blue given your lab access, have you ever purged your extraction jars with argon or other heavier than are inert gas?

I do a little TIG welding as a hobby and have argon and just realized that it might be a good increase the safety of the extraction time.

@ClaireW any liquid with sugar in it is going to grow mold after sitting for a couple of days. Mold spoors are in the air and love sugar water as a growth medium. It the reason why they sell HVAC air filters that are fine enough to filter out the mold spoors.

 

[ClaireW]

I just picked a bunch of spearmint before the freeze.

Trying to decide if I should soak in PG

Do I need to dry it? Or can I stuff it in mason jar and pour pg over it?

 

[Smoky Blue]

put in mason jar, take wooden spoon and stuff it down, but not flatten..
cover with your choice of pg or vg or both

I dont do any speed steeping, unless it is a tea extract.. then, a stove or burner works..

 

[ClaireW]

put in mason jar, take wooden spoon and stuff it down, but not flatten..
cover with your choice of pg or vg or both

I dont do any speed steeping, unless it is a tea extract.. then, a stove or burner works..

I'm going to pull the rest of the plant tmwr in day light. And out in baggie. I just grabbed a bunch that I could in the dark. Ha!

 

[InMyImage]

Do you all rinse your material before putting into the steeping jar?

 

[ClaireW]

Do you all rinse your material before putting into the steeping jar?

I still have spearmint in baggie. If I do use it I would rinse.

I did not rinse loose tobacco or tea bags.