How Big Vaping is misinforming the public about e-cigarettes

[5150sick]

http://www.vox.com/2015/3/28/8301923/e-cigarette-information

Why "Good"?
Because we are making the fuckers sweat.
They know we aren't going away and with little to no money we almost have them beat - 5150 (Fuck Em' All)

 

[Vaperjim]

Vaping has saved so many lives. Although there may be a downside, yet to be determined, all they have to do is look at how few smokers there are now. Don't they see how people finally found a way to give up the cancer sticks.


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[Giraut]

Vaping may be bad for me, for all I know. After all, I'm just an average Joe Blow vaper.

However, I do know this:

1/ I'm an avid cyclist. When I quit smoking, I gain 2 to 3 mph on my average speed. Same thing when I vape. In short, I can vape all day long and feel exactly the same as when I don't smoke on my bike. That's very telling to me.

2/ When I vape, I don't pay crazy taxes. When I smoked, it felt like being ass-raped by the state each time I bought a pack of smokes.

In short, vaping is good for my lungs and for my anus. If it gives me cancer 20 years from now, well, smoking would've too anyway. But it would have given me cancer while forcing be to ride slower and with an itchy butt.

 

[efektt]

Vaping may be bad for me, for all I know. After all, I'm just an average Joe Blow vaper.

However, I do know this:

1/ I'm an avid cyclist. When I quit smoking, I gain 2 to 3 mph on my average speed. Same thing when I vape. In short, I can vape all day long and feel exactly the same as when I don't smoke on my bike. That's very telling to me.

2/ When I vape, I don't pay crazy taxes. When I smoked, it felt like being ass-raped by the state each time I bought a pack of smokes.

In short, vaping is good for my lungs and for my anus. If it gives me cancer 20 years from now, well, smoking would've too anyway. But it would have given me cancer while forcing be to ride slower and with an itchy butt.

lol @ vaping is good for the anus. Classic.

 

[InMyImage]

I found it interesting that the researchers and policy makers quoted/referenced in the article feel like a lot of the attacks and marketing from the pro-vaping community is actually coming from BT because BT owns a "lot" of the e-cig companies.

That perceived relationship is bad for the cause.

 

[freemind]

Agreed.

Big tobacco may own a lot of cig-a-like companies, but they don't own juice and mod companies. At least, not yet.

The article has some good high points, but overall, IMO, this article paints the vape community in a bad light. Makes us look like a bunch of radical fools, threatening researchers.

 

[InMyImage]

Agreed.

Big tobacco may own a lot of cig-a-like companies, but they don't own juice and mod companies. At least, not yet.

The article has some good high points, but overall, IMO, this article paints the vape community in a bad light. Makes us look like a bunch of radical fools, threatening researchers.

Unfortunately, the anti "bad news" vapers are a bit radical in their approach to the whole situation.

What I found funny was someone saying that they got twitter bombed because they got over 600 tweets after they made theirs and that it must have been a coordinated attack backed by BT. Good grief.

 

[R3alJim Shady]

"Open source vaping," meaning devices where the user can change coils, juice flavors, nicotine levels, and such, are not connected with Big Tobacco. It annoys me to no end that people that write these articles don't do proper research. I haven't seen anyone with a disposable cig-a-like in their hand in quite some time.

Ego batts with clearos got me to stop funding BT. Money may not be the only factor in wanting to police e-cigs, but it sure is a big one.


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[freemind]

No, I think money, is the only factor in this grab for "control". The loss in tobacco tax at this point is becoming quite huge.

What else could they so easily demonize to make up for that lost tax money.

Shit, if they taxed junk food and pop, there would be a revolt.

 

[InMyImage]

I agree that money a huge factor since the majority of the states sold the rights to took out bonds against their tobacco tax settlements with restrictions that only tobacco tax money could be used to make the bond payments and several states are now upside on the bonds because of the decrease in tobacco tax revenue.

Was a really short sighted and stupid move given that the money was to be used for smoking cessation programs... also shows just how much faith they had in smokers quitting...

 

[Zamazam]

No, I think money, is the only factor in this grab for "control". The loss in tobacco tax at this point is becoming quite huge.

What else could they so easily demonize to make up for that lost tax money.

Shit, if they taxed junk food and pop, there would be a revolt.

They tried to tax large soda's in New York and the politicians quickly learned that if they pressed the tax, they would be out of a job come the next election.

 

[InMyImage]

Sugary soda tax was actually successful last year in Berkeley CA (SMH)

 

[freemind]

Logically, "sin" tax should also include things that are bad, like junk foods. Not that I support more taxes, but the unhealthiness of our nation IS a problem.

Why should smokers and vapers be the only ones pinned to pay a damn "sin" tax? It's not like obesity isn't costing us more a year than smokers and their illnesses.

And NO, I don't have issues with people being over weight. But I recognize the problem.

 

[Zamazam]

I agree that money a huge factor since the majority of the states sold the rights to took out bonds against their tobacco tax settlements with restrictions that only tobacco tax money could be used to make the bond payments and several states are now upside on the bonds because of the decrease in tobacco tax revenue.

Was a really short sighted and stupid move given that the money was to be used for smoking cessation programs... also shows just how much faith they had in smokers quitting...

The smoking cessation programs simply employed anti-smoking zealots, funded mass mailing companies, and gave money to big pharma to come up with more anti-smoking drugs. In short, they bought ads, junk mailed people, employed "do-gooder assholes by the thouands" and gave big Pharma money.

 

[Zamazam]

Sugary soda tax was actually successful last year in Berkeley CA (SMH)

Berkley? They place where they have "Sprouts and Tofu on a stick" carts?

 

[InMyImage]

Berkley? They place where they have "Sprouts and Tofu on a stick" carts?

And more sex toy stores than you can count.

 

[Kent B Marshall]

Loss of dollars are definitely at the heart of the matter. This proves it not about what's right but about winning back the dollars. Misinformation and lies are expected. Problem California and all anti-vaping is having anyone that uses e-cigarettes knows they work. Family and friends of vapors know they work. It's impossible to tell us that e-cigarettes are as bad for our health as cigarettes. BT was late to the game but their in now. Anti crowd will always associate vaping and BT. BT is very easy to demonize.

 

[efektt]

Berkley? They place where they have "Sprouts and Tofu on a stick" carts?

I am always amazed at how much hate people on this forum have for CA. You guys do realize you are not insulting the politicians or theirr policies, but the people who live here. I rarely see people talking shit about all the imbreeding hillbillies in middle america.

 

[freemind]

Where do most liberal, left wing, and kooky legislation generally start from?

Mostly in California, then New York and Chicago.

You do know that most people that flee California are not well liked, when they relocate to other parts of the country, because the first thing they do is cry for more laws. The same ones they "escaped" from.

 

[efektt]

And where does most of the money this country has come from, those same places you named. And to blame laws of other states on these states is pretty ridiculous. I have always felt welcomed wherever I have traveled, so not sure what you are talking about there.

 

[freemind]

What money? Haven't you heard? Cali is broke.

It's quite funny you think all that money "comes" from Cali.

 

[efektt]

Lol.. the state is solvent now, but look at income and property values... lots more money here than most other states.

 

[efektt]

Our min wage is good money where your at.

 

[freemind]

Lol. I don't work for minimum wage, so that's quite irrelevant.

I will bet your cost of living, is higher than mine. Even though I live in a part of the country, known for higher personal taxes.

Doesn't matter if you make 75K or more a year, if it costs 3000 a month for a studio apartment.

 

[efektt]

Its sad how fox news has brainwashed so many people.

 

[efektt]

I am done derailing this thread, if you want to continue, start a new one. My original post wast to point out that you guys are insulting people, not policies.

 

[freemind]

I am done derailing this thread, if you want to continue, start a new one. My original post wast to point out that you guys are insulting people, not policies.

While you see it as insulting people, I am pointing out the obvious will of the majority of the voters.

 

[efektt]

Talking about tofu and sprouts has nothing to do with anything but insulting people... this is what my original post was about.

 

[InMyImage]

Talking about tofu and sprouts has nothing to do with anything but insulting people... this is what my original post was about.

I think that if you go back and read the post, and then do take a few minutes do check yourself, you'll find that the comments are based on interesting factoids. In Berkeley you can get both Tofo and Sprouts on skewers.

 

[efektt]

I think that if you go back and read the post, and then do take a few minutes do check yourself, you'll find that the comments are based on interesting factoids. In Berkeley you can get both Tofo and Sprouts on skewers.

You and I both know that was meant to insult californians.

 

[freemind]

via Imgflip Meme Maker

 

[efektt]

via Imgflip Meme Maker

You are a douche bag mr. O'reilly jr.

 

[freemind]

LOL!

Thank you Mr. Bill Maher!

 

[efektt]

No problem.

 

[kelli]

 

[efektt]

@freemind bullshit politics aside, I know you love your tugboats. Do you use a chuff cap on them? I was thinking about getting one and need some input before I do. How badly does it affect flavor?

 

[freemind]

I like my V2 tug, but have no chuff for it yet. Want one, just haven't ordered one yet.

I have other atties with a chuff, and IMO, yeah your flavor suffers some. Not terrible, but you do notice a flavor downgrade.

 

[InMyImage]

I like seeing when people have a disagreement that was getting a bit hostile are able to let it go, be adults, and have productive conversations moving forward. Nice job @efektt and @freemind

That being said... you're still and asshole @freemind

 

[Giraut]

Wow, you guys are flinging shit at each other over a friggin' state? Me, I was born somewhere and I live somewhere on planet Earth. Who gives a turkey about regional pride?

 

[freemind]

 

[Bobx]

 

[Faceless Vapes]

Let's not mistake it. We are at war with big pharma big tobacco and the government over this. They are leaking dollars and they will do or say anything to keep their god. The mighty dollar in their possession.

 

[efektt]

Just wondering... who thinks we can win this war, and what you would define as winning. I am not saying we should give up, but it seems inevitable that we will get fucked.

 

[Giraut]

Just wondering... who thinks we can win this war, and what you would define as winning. I am not saying we should give up, but it seems inevitable that we will get fucked.

Yep. It's We The People against Them There Rich Fucks. Unwinnable alright...

What I think will happen is several years of prohibition-style black market and "vape-easies", followed - if we're lucky - by the re-normalisation of vaping as an activity that people want to do, that the government has no business prohibiting. If we're lucky...

 

[Fictitious Character]

That article was littered with a lack of fact checking as they focused on BT's end with the gas station customers rather than the popular manufacturers of vaping products and their customers.

My view point on some vaping topics are not technically the most popular nor the most mainstream. I see zealots to some degree on both sides. I see that both sides cherry pick information and blast it as facts.

I am sure there is some truth to what was being reported in that little article about people being attacked via social media for making anti vaping statements or statements that put vaping in a negative light. I have seen first hand the call to action statements to go post on this or to go post on that when a negative proposal or article is made. Obviously if you point the masses like an arrow at a target there will likely be some less than savory comments made due to the varying maturity and intellectual levels of the masses that are being rallied.

Don't get me wrong I am pro-vaping and I love vaping, I truly believe that vaping saves lives and brings a new found health and lively hood into a worn out and slowly dying smoker but we are caught up in the throws of a money grab where jostling for dollars is afoot. The Government and BT are losing big dollars and since they know where those dollars are going they want to find a way to wrangle them back into their pockets.

Regulation is coming and that is scary proposition to some as it leads to large amounts of uncertainty. Many of the Joe blow small start up juice makers are likely to not want regulations as they can not likely afford the potential licensing and start up costs of a regulated FDA shadowed operation, so they can often be outspoken and want to rally the masses to help their cause in preventing regulation. Larger well established businesses likely have already been preparing and implementing procedures and measures to be prepared for the foreseeable regulations, and they might even be all for the regulations since they are already well established and have less to worry about financially than a smaller less prepared operation would have.

In my opinion there is a certain amount of scare tactics used by both sides of this fight for their own agenda, and both want to use the uneducated or easily manipulated to help their cause. Vaping is here and I do not believe it is going anywhere but I do believe that these wild west days of vaping are numbered. With that said though I believe advocacy is important and I believe it is our individual responsibility to be aware and active, not only against unfair legislation but also to keep up with the scientific aspect in deciphering and pursuing unbiased studies.

 

[Zamazam]

That article was littered with a lack of fact checking as they focused on BT's end with the gas station customers rather than the popular manufacturers of vaping products and their customers.

My view point on some vaping topics are not technically the most popular nor the most mainstream. I see zealots to some degree on both sides. I see that both sides cherry pick information and blast it as facts.

I am sure there is some truth to what was being reported in that little article about people being attacked via social media for making anti vaping statements or statements that put vaping in a negative light. I have seen first hand the call to action statements to go post on this or to go post on that when a negative proposal or article is made. Obviously if you point the masses like an arrow at a target there will likely be some less than savory comments made due to the varying maturity and intellectual levels of the masses that are being rallied.

Don't get me wrong I am pro-vaping and I love vaping, I truly believe that vaping saves lives and brings a new found health and lively hood into a worn out and slowly dying smoker but we are caught up in the throws of a money grab where jostling for dollars is afoot. The Government and BT are losing big dollars and since they know where those dollars are going they want to find a way to wrangle them back into their pockets.

Regulation is coming and that is scary proposition to some as it leads to large amounts of uncertainty. Many of the Joe blow small start up juice makers are likely to not want regulations as they can not likely afford the potential licensing and start up costs of a regulated FDA shadowed operation, so they can often be outspoken and want to rally the masses to help their cause in preventing regulation. Larger well established businesses likely have already been preparing and implementing procedures and measures to be prepared for the foreseeable regulations, and they might even be all for the regulations since they are already well established and have less to worry about financially than a smaller less prepared operation would have.

In my opinion there is a certain amount of scare tactics used by both sides of this fight for their own agenda, and both want to use the uneducated or easily manipulated to help their cause. Vaping is here and I do not believe it is going anywhere but I do believe that these wild west days of vaping are numbered. With that said though I believe advocacy is important and I believe it is our individual responsibility to be aware and active, not only against unfair legislation but also to keep up with the scientific aspect in deciphering and pursuing unbiased studies.

Saul Alinsky published a short book called "Rules for Radicals: A Pragmatic Primer for Realistic Radicals" in which he has a rule to make the "personal political" which is to take something you are personally invested in and make it political. That is what is happening with vaping and advocacy. We are up against big time $$ and organized companies that will simply destroy what they cannot own, or in the case of government, tax it to the point of breaking so the big companies can come in and own it. This is not by accident, it's being implemented now because those juicy $$ are not flowing to the people and companies, and government that has grown accustomed to having a big cash flow from smokers. The money from the Big Tobacco settlements with the states was supposed to go to anti-smoking cessation programs, but in reality when those big time $$$ showed up, the state politicians squealed with joy like hogs being fed lots of doughnuts in their slop. All those $$$ simply went into the states general funds to be haggled over and spent by politicians who wanted votes, not ex-smokers, nor healthier constituents. The fact that states sold tobacco bonds to get more money up front is telling, they wanted the $$$ now, didn't even think that the future might make them pay back a lot more then their slice of $$$ from the initial Big Tobacco settlement with the states.

 

[Faceless Vapes]

A certain level of regulation would probably be good in the long run. Such as labeling, warning, and of course child resistant caps. We need to unite and do the best we can

 

[Hottvapz]

And this is exactly why I am getting more involved in DIY . My house can't be regulated lol

 

[InMyImage]

And this is exactly why I am getting more involved in DIY . My house can't be regulated lol

Except your access to raw nic

 

[Hottvapz]

Except your access to raw nic

Don't need the nic. Been off nic for a couple months now.