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Found this online today Lorann Oils

Psyc

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A letter about the intent with the new Fda rules. Sorry for pdf format only way i could grab it.
 

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  • LorAnn May 2016 Statement Regarding FDA Tobacco Control Act.pdf
    209.5 KB · Views: 109

AmandaD

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Not a great loss considering how little of their flavoring is widely used for our purposes - but interesting none the same!
 

skiball

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I agree with lorann there company does not make flavors specifically for ejuice. So why should they comply with submitting info needed of ejuice manufacturers.

The bit that confused me is " Even the major flavoring industry
manufacturer’s association (FEMA) is advocating that its members refrain from making claims that
flavoring ingredients listed in its own FEMA GRAS listing are intended only for food products, and that E-
liquids are not food or intended for ingestion." Lorann is doing exactly what FEMA has advised against. By stating that their flavors are only for food and drink purposes. And why FEMA would be advising not to do as such is beyond me.

This is getting even more scary than I imagined. For the fda to use such gross over reach of power. As to try and strong arm company's into compliance of regulations that don't pertain to them in the slightest. It's like saying a foundry that produces steel should comply with gun regulations because guns are made of steel. This country just gets scarier and scarier by the min.

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mjag

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Great, another thing I might have to stock up on, Lorann Banana Cream and Cream Cheese Icing (both colorless version) are delicious.
 

The Cromwell

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None of the leading flavoring companies promote their flavorings for use in ecigs except maybe FA who also makes ejuice.
 

Jimi D

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None of the leading flavoring companies promote their flavorings for use in ecigs except maybe FA who also makes ejuice.
Capella did. They even designed tobacco flavorings. Then when the shit hit the fan. They discontinued them. Lol
 

Jimi D

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Lorann's was the beginning in USA juice. Ms T, and Tasty Vapor made some great ones. Good to see that Lorann's will still be around if we need flavoring.
 

skiball

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None of the leading flavoring companies promote their flavorings for use in ecigs except maybe FA who also makes ejuice.
I think that's kinda the point of why this is so nuts. How the fda can justify enforcing regulations on a company that with out their own choosing have been labeled an ejuice manufacturer.

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The Cromwell

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I think that's kinda the point of why this is so nuts. How the fda can justify enforcing regulations on a company that with out their own choosing have been labeled an ejuice manufacturer.

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They are not labelled an ejuice manufacturer.
However all ingredients used in making ejuice must provide a list of their contents early next year and have proof of their safety as an inhaled substance.
None of the flavoring companies will do this.

We as individuals will still be able to buy flavorings for use in "food and beverages".
However ejuice companies will not be able to use them in their ejuice after February next year.
And I expect that sales to ejuice companies and vape related sites will end soon from the flavoring company's.
This is USA only.
FA makes ejuice but I am certain they will not sell flavorings to US juice manufacturers after next February.
 

skiball

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Lorann's was the beginning in USA juice. Ms T, and Tasty Vapor made some great ones. Good to see that Lorann's will still be around if we need flavoring.
Lorann might have been used to make ejuice by other people. But it was never marketed or sold by lorann for that purpose. So in no way should they be considered an e juice manufacturer.

Yet the fda made a request for them to submit to the new regulations. And by this letter we know that lorann declined to submit to said regulations. On grounds that they're not an ejuice manufacturer.

Now the problem is what will the fda's response be to this claim? This is all pure speculation but to me there seems to be four options for the fda. 1 they could decide that there response is enuff and leave it at that. 2 they could say if that's true we want you to clearly label it as such on your products. 3 they could say if that's true than we want you to add a substance that make your product unvapalbe. 4 they could say no your response isn't good enuff and you still have to submit to our regulations.

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skiball

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They are not labelled an ejuice manufacturer.
However all ingredients used in making ejuice must provide a list of their contents early next year and have proof of their safety as an inhaled substance.
None of the flavoring companies will do this.

We as individuals will still be able to buy flavorings for use in "food and beverages".
However ejuice companies will not be able to use them in their ejuice after February next year.
And I expect that sales to ejuice companies and vape related sites will end soon from the flavoring company's.
This is USA only.
FA makes ejuice but I am certain they will not sell flavorings to US juice manufacturers after next February.
You just enjoy arguments or just don't comprehend what i'm saying. I agree that lorann has never been marketed or sold as ejuice. I already clearly stated this. And if you read the op's pdf in the letter it says that lorann was requested to submit ingredient info and than eventually also studies showing there products safe. They never specifically say that the fda was the one making said request. But who else could possibly be asking for that info. Also it's not in good practice to poke a bear like the fda and that's why they left out who was asking. They won't go public stating it was the fda till there's a open lawsuit. At this point by omitting who asked the request there hoping that there honest response will be enuff. But if that's not the case than i'm sure it won't be good for you and me.

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NGAHaze

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What gets me is that there are plenty of folks who vape 0 nic yet the FDA seems to think that it still has the authority to force those persons to submit to it's regulations based purely on the fact that the device and contents *might* at some point, be used with a tobacco component, namely nicotine.

As far as I know, mind reading has not been proven to be a verifiable human attribute yet apparently the FDA is able to do so at will.

Precognition has arrived my friends and for now at least, belongs solely with the FDA. :rolleyes:
 
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Rabbit Slayer

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With the word "oil" in their name I would never use them for ejuice flavoring
 

Heabob

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What gets me is that there are plenty of folks who vape 0 nic yet the FDA seems to think that it still has the authority to force those persons to submit to it's regulations based purely on the fact that the device and contents *might* at some point, be used with a tobacco component, namely nicotine.

But any e-liquid sold, even 0 NIC, is to be labeled as a "Tobacco Product" WTF.
That's the part that gets me the most.
And, since when should any flavoring company have to jump through all those hoops for something designed for food use.
If I'm gonna Vape Mustard will they regulate that next, it's just blown way out of proportion.
NIC regulation is fine for minors but leave the rest of the shit alone, damn FDA.
 

NGAHaze

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But any e-liquid sold, even 0 NIC, is to be labeled as a "Tobacco Product" WTF.

Exactly and the same issue essentially. They are assuming someone is going to add nic to that e-liquid and of course some would but there are those that wouldn't yet they are both equally impacted. IMO this is the overreach that should be attacked. They ( FDA ) have no legal standing if nicotine is not involved so they have projected beyond the scope of their authority.

NIC regulation is fine for minors but leave the rest of the shit alone, damn FDA.

Yes, exactly ... this should be the only area where they have purview. Minus the nicotine factor, vaping in and of itself is simply a personal choice much like deciding whether or not you wish to drink coffee and the FDA shouldn't be allowed to run roughshod over it.
 

The Cromwell

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You just enjoy arguments or just don't comprehend what i'm saying. I agree that lorann has never been marketed or sold as ejuice. I already clearly stated this. And if you read the op's pdf in the letter it says that lorann was requested to submit ingredient info and than eventually also studies showing there products safe. They never specifically say that the fda was the one making said request. But who else could possibly be asking for that info. Also it's not in good practice to poke a bear like the fda and that's why they left out who was asking. They won't go public stating it was the fda till there's a open lawsuit. At this point by omitting who asked the request there hoping that there honest response will be enuff. But if that's not the case than i'm sure it won't be good for you and me.

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The testing required to prove inhaled safety is in the Deeming regs documents.
So Yes the FDA is requesting it.
 

skiball

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The testing required to prove inhaled safety is in the Deeming regs documents.
So Yes the FDA is requesting it.
But lorann isn't an ejuice manufacturer so why should they be asked to comply? I doubt their going to koolaid and asking them to comply with fda tobacco regulations.
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The Cromwell

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But lorann isn't an ejuice manufacturer so why should they be asked to comply? I doubt their going to koolaid and asking them to comply with fda tobacco regulations.
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You think the ejuice manufacturers will test all their different flavors they use? At different wattages? In different percentages? And all the different combinations of flavors too?
And the flavoring manufacturers would have to coordinate any future changes in the flavoring formula for it to be retested.

Face it in about a year manufactured ejuice will be basically dead in the USA. Most will bail before then.
 

Psyc

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Now while looking for a few flavors on the TFA website is says:

Alert:
The Flavor Apprentice fully intends to comply with any upcoming Federal Regulations regarding our flavors.****


What this means i am not sure?
 

The Cromwell

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Now while looking for a few flavors on the TFA website is says:

Alert:
The Flavor Apprentice fully intends to comply with any upcoming Federal Regulations regarding our flavors.****


What this means i am not sure?
I am not sure either but it could mean exactly what Loranns docs said.
They are going to comply as well by steeping out of the game.
 

RonJS

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Face it in about a year manufactured ejuice will be basically dead in the USA. Most will bail before then.


Seems things could get real busy around here. ;)

Perhaps especially in "Anybody got a clone of..." area of this Forum.

Ron
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"The days can go on with regularity over and over, one day indistinguishable from the next. A long continuous chain. Then suddenly, there is a change. "- Travis Bickle
 

skiball

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You think the ejuice manufacturers will test all their different flavors they use? At different wattages? In different percentages? And all the different combinations of flavors too?
And the flavoring manufacturers would have to coordinate any future changes in the flavoring formula for it to be retested.

Face it in about a year manufactured ejuice will be basically dead in the USA. Most will bail before then.
How does any of that pertain to lorann? Its a flavor manufacturer that has never marketed or sold anything pertaining to ejuuce. So obviously there not going to coordinate with any ejuice manufacturers. And i never said that ejuice isn't screwed thats not what this debate has been about at all. I've stated over and over that this is about a company that has no ties to e-cigs yet is requested to follow those guidelines. That is an injustice to a company that has been around long before ecigs. Obviously all you want to do is argue. Because you keep making completely ill reinvent and off topic statements.

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mjag

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Lorann just has to comply if they want to continue selling to e-juice mfg's, if they don't then they will be cut off from that revenue stream.
 

AndriaD

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They are not labelled an ejuice manufacturer.
However all ingredients used in making ejuice must provide a list of their contents early next year and have proof of their safety as an inhaled substance.
None of the flavoring companies will do this.

We as individuals will still be able to buy flavorings for use in "food and beverages".
However ejuice companies will not be able to use them in their ejuice after February next year.
And I expect that sales to ejuice companies and vape related sites will end soon from the flavoring company's.
This is USA only.
FA makes ejuice but I am certain they will not sell flavorings to US juice manufacturers after next February.

Same for Inawera... and that's *IF* Inawera can survive the TPD, the EU's brand of e-cig paranoia/greed.

Andria
 

The Cromwell

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How does any of that pertain to lorann? Its a flavor manufacturer that has never marketed or sold anything pertaining to ejuuce. So obviously there not going to coordinate with any ejuice manufacturers. And i never said that ejuice isn't screwed thats not what this debate has been about at all. I've stated over and over that this is about a company that has no ties to e-cigs yet is requested to follow those guidelines. That is an injustice to a company that has been around long before ecigs. Obviously all you want to do is argue. Because you keep making completely ill reinvent and off topic statements.

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They only have to comply if they market their product as a vape flavoring, sell thru a vape related site or sell to an ejuice manufacturer.
I do not think they will take much of a financial hit at all over this since they are now a minor player in the ejuice flavoring game.
 

skiball

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They only have to comply if they market their product as a vape flavoring, sell thru a vape related site or sell to an ejuice manufacturer.
I do not think they will take much of a financial hit at all over this since they are now a minor player in the ejuice flavoring game.
Capella also has it on their blog that they will comply with the fda regulations. What that means exactly for us regular people we'll see i guess.

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Psyc

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Do we have to go to culinary school and become certified chefs to order flavorings? What will be next prove you have a penis to buy codoms. Fuck the FDA.
 

Jimi D

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Lorann might have been used to make ejuice by other people. But it was never marketed or sold by lorann for that purpose. So in no way should they be considered an e juice manufacturer.

Yet the fda made a request for them to submit to the new regulations. And by this letter we know that lorann declined to submit to said regulations. On grounds that they're not an ejuice manufacturer.

Now the problem is what will the fda's response be to this claim? This is all pure speculation but to me there seems to be four options for the fda. 1 they could decide that there response is enuff and leave it at that. 2 they could say if that's true we want you to clearly label it as such on your products. 3 they could say if that's true than we want you to add a substance that make your product unvapalbe. 4 they could say no your response isn't good enuff and you still have to submit to our regulations.

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I'm well aware the Lorann wanted nothing to do with vaping. I emailed them years ago with questions.
 

Heabob

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We might have to buy our flavorings directly from the mfg's. instead.
As we may not be able to get them from BCV, ECX, etc anymore.
 

Squonk

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I see a big problem down the road here. The FDAs overreaching attempt will only cause more harm than good when some people begin vaping grocery store flavoring when the pricing of "regulated flavorings" increases or becomes hard to come by. It's typical government BS to possess the inability to see further than the end of its nose.
 

SailCat

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We might have to buy our flavorings directly from the mfg's. instead.
As we may not be able to get them from BCV, ECX, etc anymore.

I will be surprised if Amazon does not pick up all brands of flavorings. They could have a small section where home cooks and bakers could post recipes. Flavorah/Inawera chocolate-cherimoya cupcakes?
 

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