FDA opens criminal probe of vaping deaths as health officials search for cause

Discussion in 'The Good' started by 5150sick, Sep 20, 2019.

  1. 5150sick

    5150sick Under Ground Hustler Staff Member VU Administrator Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Mod Team Leader Member For 5 Years

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  2. PoppaVic

    PoppaVic Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    What a crock of shit.
     
  3. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    They know what it is. People on this forum could tell them what it is. Laughable but ultimately harmful to everyone, since they’re focusing on the bs.


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  4. PoppaVic

    PoppaVic Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    It's the "narrative" - we've been getting forcefed BS narratives for well over 3 decades.. Getting damned tired of the lies.
     
  5. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    Which is why I don’t really watch the news or read the papers anymore. I’m tired of it, too. I’ve never seen them lie so blatantly about something I really love.


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  6. jwill

    jwill The Great King of Nothing VU Vendor VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team VU SWAT Reddit Exile

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    They cant get away from the truth so they are going to spin it into what they want.
     
  7. PoppaVic

    PoppaVic Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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  8. OneBadWolf

    OneBadWolf VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years ECF Refugee

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    Today, I made an appearance. Downtown.

    I am an expert witness.

    Because I say I am!

    And I said "Gentlemen, and I use that world loosely,

    I will testify for you", I'm a gun for hire, I'm a saint, I'm a liar.

    Because there are no facts, there is no truth.

    Just data to be manipulated.

    I can get you any result you like.

    What's it worth to you?

    Because there is no wrong, there is no right.

    And I sleep very well at night.

    No shame, no solution, no remorse, no retribution.

    Just people selling t-shirts.

    Just an opportunity to participate in this pathetic little circus.

    And of course, winning, winning, winning.

    It was pretty big year for predators
    The marketplace was on a roll
    And the land of opportunity
    Spawned a whole new breed of men without souls.


    Don Henly
     
  9. PoppaVic

    PoppaVic Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    I was disgusted to see Jai, Vic, Grimm and a couple more reviewers on a 'Minds' program...

    As soon as Jai suggests "what can we do to appease/head-off/curtail" this shit, I got antsy. When Grimm promoted "regulation" and limits and "it's ok with ME to ditch 50mg", I closed the tab and I am done listening.

    Every solution ends up giving up more rights/freedoms and empowering feds and state further - like... the FDfuckingA, taxes, ATF[E].. Thanks. Pass. Your kids don't matter to me in the least; they don't matter to you or you'd fight these schools, educators, and university indoctrinations - you'd PARENT. Further, YOU don't matter to me if you wish to pursue your own Darwin Award. M'Kay? Growthefuckup.

    *I* made the choice to smoke. *I* made the choice to eventually handroll. *I* made the choice to give up smoking for vaping. *I* made the choice to coil & wick. *I* made the choice to mix my own ejuice... *I* spent the time and money to get a few clues. *I* pay for my desires - or do without. All you pundits and lame-ass cowards can drop-the-fuck-dead.
     
  10. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    Thanks, the other one you posted was good. I don’t watch these guys, for the most part.


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  11. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    Yes, if you want to play you gotta pay, is not just a glib saying.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  12. PoppaVic

    PoppaVic Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    You wanna' Play, fine - join the NFL and take a knee. Don't pretend to "advocate" and suggest I bend over and pull the ol' cheeks wide "for the win".

    This is about showing-the-colors: libs gotta' push their CONTROL agenda; pretend to "save the damned children"; listen to [the mob].. I won't buy their shit on "gun control" and certainly not on vaping - they can all fribble off back to their race/gender nonsense.
     
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  13. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    I could just say “piss off” and leave it. That’s a street saying, and nobody there was playing.


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  14. hellcatrydr

    hellcatrydr Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    By way of an I told you so...

    Back in 2015 I wrote a post here excoriating the vaping community for encouraging
    what I referred to as vape "hobbyists" (vapers who never smoked) to vape.
    I also was the guy who said that without industry self-regulation, any juice maker
    can put anything they want into their products.

    And now we're here in this this big uproar because exactly those two things have occurred.
    It is imo because of those folks that we are facing this bundle of lies from the anti-vape agenda types.

    We never regulated ourselves. And now we've got 8th graders on nicotine/THC
    and libtards trying madly to villify us all.

    NOBODY should vape who never smoked.

    .
     
  15. OneBadWolf

    OneBadWolf VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years ECF Refugee

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    You have got to stop beating around the bush, and pussy-footing around the subject. Stop mincing words, and sugar coating everything. Be more direct dammitt!! lololol
     
  16. MyMagicMist

    MyMagicMist Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    If I tell you a lie three times it becomes true. If I tell you a lie three times it becomes true. If I tell you a lie three times it becomes true.

    Also, ...
    It is all the same principle from Edward Bernays, father of modern propaganda.
     
  17. kross8

    kross8 Silver Contributor Member For 3 Years

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  18. MyMagicMist

    MyMagicMist Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Well given Operation Northwoods, USS Maddox incident, Sinking of U.S.S Maine, ... that might be a very likely possibility. Please allow me my Discordian though. I'm not reading anything I believe, or believing anything I read. Recently had a discussion with my wife who reminded me, "if it's on the Internet it has to be true." So I am taking her advice and trying to refrain from being gull able, yes, able to be a gull.

    Instead, I will dispatch a crew of Juans cleverly renamed, What, Who, When, Where, Why and How. Each of them will be tasked in finding out the details of their newly given names regarding this case. Do you recall actual tied in the wool, investigative journalism that answered these question? (rhetorical) We no longer got reporters, news cover agents who cover the news and play sound. What do they cover the news with? Oh, lies maybe?

    "You can't make this news up, man!"

    "Well yeah we saw how CNN filmed live in Iraq from a studio in New York using green screen and cheap props. So yes, yes you can make it up and do."
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  19. Theboss

    Theboss Strange Brew VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    The majority of people on this planet are just sheep my friend. It starts in grade school where they program us to believe everything we hear.
     
  20. MyMagicMist

    MyMagicMist Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    I know that. Obvious enough to see, once you read the details of how the education system was adopted from the basic training of the Prussian soldiers. They made it all cute by adding the lipstick of a fluffy sounding name, kidnergarten (garden of the children), which is kind of ironic "Oh let's go harvest the children, shall we?".

    Honestly do not blame the poor folks who had no clue and let it stand. Only wish those that were allegedly educated would have abolished it. But then there's the rub no? They were not genuinely educated and all that kind of stuff about the education system was verboten to learn about.

    I also get scolded for asking mental health practitioners "can a human act, as in do something pro-actively without need of cause or something to react to?" The reason I'm scolded is because psychology and psychiatry both teach only that human beings can only react.

    This question from a patient gives them a harsh wake up call as it disproves a lot of the mental quackery for quackery outright. They don't like thinking eight to twelve years to get certified, educated is all for nothing because it ignores something very fundamental.

    People can and do act without cause all the time. It's called living. We breathe without cause if you stop and think about it for a few minutes you'll see that as correct. This is but one absurdity of the universal "accident" of life. "Why do we breathe?" "To live." "Why do we live?" "...*" And notice, our drawing breath causes life, it's not the other way around no matter how you might attempt presenting it. We do not breathe because we live, or as a reaction to living. We live as a reaction from breathing, all living life does, even plants.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
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  21. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    You’re on the Juan’s again? lol As long as I get to be That Juan, I’m up for it.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  22. nadalama

    nadalama Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    You aren’t the only one to suspect this.
     
  23. MyMagicMist

    MyMagicMist Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Alright, you can be That Juan. I'll rename Fabio Juan back to Fabio Juan, I was calling him That Juan but it is okay. He is imaginary at any given. :)
     
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  24. MyMagicMist

    MyMagicMist Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Even Dull Juan thought this. I would almost think Every Juan thought it. :)
     
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  25. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    Well, I can’t be Fabio, since he’s unique. :giggle: So...the Other Juan, since being the Only Juan is egotistical!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  26. OneBadWolf

    OneBadWolf VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years ECF Refugee

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    sheeple.jpg
     
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  27. bombastinator

    bombastinator New Member

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    My professed belief on the subject of “sheeple” is that everyone is one. The mistake that is encouraged by claims about them is that there exists anyone, including the people raising the cry, that they are not also the same. As if by making this distinction they raise themselves above the others. It doesn’t, at least in reality. There is no actual insulation from fallibility or additional insight granted. Frequently it seems to be used to actually draw people into an even less accurate understanding of the world around them rather than what it claims to do.

    conspiracy theories do this a lot.
     
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  28. OneBadWolf

    OneBadWolf VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years ECF Refugee

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    Here,is a post worth paying attention to. The author, Thebombupmyassinator, is clearly a very particular, and special type of snowflake but what is not immediately evident in this post, is how exotic a creature this actually is.

    I myself nearly missed it. The obvious nature of his entire post being based on a fatally flawed premise, that misaddresses context attributed to another, whom I was quoting , to myself.

    This normally, is so common, as to not even warrant comment. At first glance, merely a unremarkable specimen of the garden variety fucktard, doing what they were made to do. But there is just the most subtle, fleeting hint of something else, hiding behind his smug overuse of polysyllabic s.

    What will provide us the context needed to reveal what a true rara avis the Thebombupmyassinator, actually is , can be found in the body of the sum total of his published posts, here at VU. Some selections from that scholarly, and voluminous tome of, at the time of this writing, 24 posts:


    Thebombupmyassinator,





    And there it is. Trollery by a troll who is not even cognizant they are trolls. In the wild, this behavior naturally occurs in a particular sub genome of pompous prick usually found only in two isolated environments.

    The first, in forums where highly technical issues are discussed. They live there. They viciously pounce on anybody they don't recognize. You might be having a problem updating a code repository in Debian. You post everything you have tried, your syntax etc, and this is what will always respond with the most idiotic suggestions, Or possibly rudely demanding you try the very steps you just posted, or my favorite, explaining the problem as your own fault, by neglecting to install the Great Satan's updates. Windows updates. On a Linux site.

    The second place is of course ECF. Obviously. But like the Snakehead fish, we have found one that escaped his native ooze, and flopped his way, gills gasping, across the great digital expanse, to these clear blue azure waters. A random scrambling of paired proteins in viral DNA. A mutation, An abomination. Do not let it multiply. Get the bleach.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
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  29. Theboss

    Theboss Strange Brew VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    :crazy:
     
  30. OneBadWolf

    OneBadWolf VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years ECF Refugee

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    And already, they multiply. lol
     
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  31. bombastinator

    bombastinator New Member

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  32. bombastinator

    bombastinator New Member

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    Here’s how I unpack this statement:

    “Ohshit!! He said something reasonable! Worse it’s something that isn’t to my advantage! Got to nip this in the bud!... how do I do that?
    this person clearly isn’t as hardcore right wing as me but I don’t actually have anything meaningful to say against it so I’m going to have to smear him with almost pure falsehood. Absolutely pure falsehood doesn’t work though so I’m going to use just a bit of truth on top and then mash that truth as hard as I can later in the statement.

    I could just call him names but instead I’ll misspell his name and add nasty things to it about my butt because hopefully I can fool other people into thinking negative things doing it. Plus it might seem more clever that way because it looks like I put more thought into it.

    I really need to point out that other people don’t think like this because my whole stick is that it’s me that is reasonable but everyone else on earth is crazy. I’ll claim he’s unique and unusual.

    I’m going to use political dogwhistles like “snowflake” just to make sure my audience is extremist enough.

    I’m going to call him a troll (because everyone hate trolls) by quoting out of context. It doesn’t actually work even then though so I’m simply going to present non evidence and claim it is evidence and hope that works. He mentioned his computer skills are limited.. maybe if I pretend he posted in a technical computer section instead of a personal introduction section and talk about Linux distros long enough for people to get so bored by it they might miss that he never actually posted what I said he did or where i said he did. Then I can accuse him of doing things he didn’t actually do.

    Now that the audience is sufficiently spun I can do what I wanted to do the whole time which is call him a foreigner because he spent time on a different ecig site and get the racism going. I don’t actually know he is an actual foreigner though and it’s a ridiculous thing to do to begin with so I’ll compare him to an invasive species fish. Close enough to evoke the emotion but not actually the thing. Then I will call for him to be killed! I can do that though because that out and out evil so I will have to start small and work up to it. I’ve already compared him to an invasive species fish and said he was unusual. I’ll call him a mutant! Then when I call for him to be poisoned I’ll use one that is also a cleaning agent.”

    So the takeaway is “He said something that was not to my advantage! He must be destroyed!” With a whole bunch of BS in the middle to make it hopefully sound less stupid.

    also, everything I said about “sheeple” also applies to “snowflake”
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
  33. OneBadWolf

    OneBadWolf VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years ECF Refugee

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    Political dogwhistles? Does one buy those at Walmart, one isle over from the Religious Riding Crops?

    Any device that can access a politico's ear, without causing harm to innocents is worth a shot. (small pun there)

    I have an open mind, even though I'll be in the Bastinator's debt it it actually works. After all, I had serious reservations about the value of the Religious Riding Crop. Until I saw Sisters Agnes, and Grace in their latex habits. Full of sin, and in need of correction.. Best $12.99 I ever spent.
     
  34. bombastinator

    bombastinator New Member

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    a political dogwhistle is a term designed to be missed by those not already converted to whatever cause. Very often they’re a shorthand for a more complex concept. They’re used by both parties and many less ethical religious sects.
     
  35. gsmit1

    gsmit1 Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    That is not your call and I beg to differ.

    That said, I do admire your command of the language and powers of prose.
     
  36. bombastinator

    bombastinator New Member

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    “Shoulds” are often like that. Doesn’t make em wrong. I can think of some rare cases where it might be true. Generally in some situation where the choice is smoking OR vaping, or even something worse, with no option to do none of them. It’s a narrow exception though.
     
  37. gsmit1

    gsmit1 Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    See now there's the problem. You are entitled to your opinion, but what you can think of has nothing to do with me. I'm a 55 year old adult and can think for myself thank you very much. I don't need or want you, this other fella, or some nanny state bureaucrats running my life.
     
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  38. bombastinator

    bombastinator New Member

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    Ah. So you can correct others but no one can correct you because you’re somehow special.

    What you are saying is your own comment has no value either.
     
  39. gsmit1

    gsmit1 Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    How could you have possibly deduced this from what I said? Clearly I was referring to the realm of things like who should and should not vape. Not life in general. I'm big. I'll decide whether I should vape or not. Not you, not oneBadWolf, not some tyrannical bureaucrat, not my mama or anybody else.

    I truly rejoice in the fact that multitudes have been able to use vaping as a means to escape their addiction to tobacco, but that does not give them exclusive rights to it's pleasures. I vape because I like it and I enjoy the hobby and helping others when I can, and I'm not apologizing for that.

    Further, I've been around long enough for the people who know me here to know that I have no problem taking direction and correction from anybody. I learned much of what I know about vaping from people on this forum.

    To get them off your hook, most of them didn't know for a long time that I never was a smoker.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
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  40. bombastinator

    bombastinator New Member

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    that’s fairly simple.
    1. someone makes a statement.

    2. You correct his statement and say that his statement is untrue and this other thing happens instead.

    3. I correct your statement in turn, and say that that other thing does happen, but only some of the time. Splitting the difference to some degree.

    4. You get angry and correct me for correcting you on the grounds that either no one should be correcting anyone, or no one should be correcting you specifically. It wasn’t clear. Some statement was made that I have some sort of problem because I felt I even had the right to correct a statement you made even though it was a statement correcting someone else’s statement.

    5. I point out #4
    yes. So?
    I don’t think anyone was doing that ever. Not even the first poster. I would say that doing such a thing would be so ridiculous I can’t see someone ever attempting it, but I fielded a similarly ridiculous disparagement by @OneBadWolf recently so you may have a point there. I made a statement about my personal feelings about the concept of “sheeple” and he called for my eradication because I was a mutant invasive species fish or something. I forget.
    afaik that was never done intentionally, at least by me. I can’t speak for @OneBadWolf
    I learned what I know on a different one but am familiar with the concept. Most everything I know about vaping is regurgitation of stuff I heard from others. A few also post here. @Rossum in particular. He strikes me as a particularly bright and knowledgeable guy. Another Ive seen here who’s statements I also probably imitate badly is @Letitia9.
    I was a smoker, but I was quit for 10 years before ecigs came along. Not by choice. Nicotine was good for my mental functioning. I quit because cigarettes had me so sick I was physically no longer able to smoke. They nearly killed me. I saw ecigs and thought “heeeeey. All the focus and anti anxiety with none of the death..”

    I guess that qualifies me as relapsed rather than a non smoker exactly.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
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  41. gsmit1

    gsmit1 Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    @bombastinator
    Listen friend, you seem a decent enough fella and even though we butted heads a bit over at ECF, I have nothing against you.

    You no more owe me, or anyone else, least of all some greedy, power mongering politicians an explanation for your love of vaping, than I owe you or anybody else one either. That's the point.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
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  42. bombastinator

    bombastinator New Member

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    I sort of agree. IF the problems with vaping was actually as described by BT and the CDC THEN they would have at least some reason to do what they did and are doing. They’d still be doing it badly. There would be vastly more effective ways to solve the kind of problem that was presented.

    What absolutely chaps my shorts though is the actual problems are NOT what is being represented. It’s almost entirely pure BS. Not absolutely pure of course. Even the highest test BS has a tiny bit of truth in it if it is going to work. It’s some pretty high test BS though.

    So do I think it is worth fighting? Yes. I don’t think the politicians are the primary problem though several of them did contribute though their credulity. The primary problem are the corporations creating and marketing the BS. The governmental and non-profit groups enabling the aforementioned corporations to press their agenda are complicit in that they swallowed the BS. They didn’t create it though. They think it’s true. It isn’t, though, and it’s supposed to be their job to tell the difference.

    It was probably some fairly tasty BS cooked up especially to please them. I spent a day wallowing in the exceptionally sad muck that is the bastards and deplorables section. The people there are similarly afflicted. What they’re holding on to isn’t even a reasonable representation of reality. Poke it and it falls apart. They clutch their rotting clods of BS with desperate anger though because it’s tastier to them than reality. They’ll never stop clutching it or even look at it square, and they’ll take it to their grave unless the firehose comes out and washes the BS away. They’re not evil though. They’re just victims. The evil ones are the people cooking the BS and feeding it to them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  43. OneBadWolf

    OneBadWolf VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years ECF Refugee

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    I'm legendary for my beliefs of one correct mod, one correct atomizer, and one correct juice. A simple parsing of my posts would reveal that I don't pander to heretics

    That sounds like something Sister Agnes would try to grunt through her ball gag. And now, your breaking all John Galt on us? Gasp. Flop.

    Not to mention all the disappointment generated by confabulating non existent gadgets. Political Dog Whistles my ass. My sources at Walmart inform me they have never carried such a product.

    Time for me to go. I have work to do. That bug zapper isn't going to attach itself to the hummingbird feeder on it's own now, is it?
     
  44. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    I thought this was a thread that Sick started, not a fighting thread. I had to check that I didn’t end up in the mud pit by accident.

    People who knew each other at ECF are continuing the fight here? Why, because we have freedom of speech at VU unlike the other place?

    We’re in a bad situation as vapers now with bans and Deeming. Can’t we fucking get along now of all times? The two forums should be exchanging ideas now, not arguing. Rant ends.
     
  45. OneBadWolf

    OneBadWolf VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years ECF Refugee

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    You call that a rant?? :facepalm:

    All I got from it was a rhetorical question, and a suggestion. Where's the fire? Where is the passion? Any decent rant should be forceful, emphatic, maybe even slightly unhinged. :tantrum:

    If rants were music, they'd be fugues.


    A very simple form of fugue is a round. Like "row row row" your boat. Complex rounds become Canons. In canons, you can recapitulate the theme in a different octave, key, in retrograde, or even invert it. If you are really clever, you could even invert it in retrograde.

    A fugue proper is a canon, with complications. The theme may split into four pieces, and mutate until you think WTF has this to do with anything, then resolves it's self back into something coherent again.

    Precisely like a fugue, a good rant starts with the introduction of the theme, or subject. The theme/s are then re stated, develop independently in various manners, and at some point, rejoin, mutually supporting each other, and the original theme.

    An example. Maybe not the best example, but I think Dorien is hawt. :D


     
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  46. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    Very nice Bach. I have some vinyl of one of the Newmans playing Bach on organ somewhere. Can’t remember which Newman it is, and Alfred E. keeps coming to mind.

    Did the idea of a Fugue state come from musical fugues, do you think?

    Thanks for not trying to slap me down too hard, Bad Wolf. I appreciate it.
     
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  47. OneBadWolf

    OneBadWolf VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years ECF Refugee

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    It did. The term fugue is also used in aerodynamics to describe a "fuguoid" motion like porpoising, usually due to a CG issue.


    Very happy to see you have a sense of humor, and don't take everything too seriously.


    If you went mad for Alfred E. Newman's interpretations of Bach, you should search YouTube for the werkes of the forgotten Bach. P.D.Q Bach, the illegitimate progeny of JS Bach, and half brother to C.P.E Bach, whose works were recently discovered by Professor Peter Schickele, Coincidentally, the Professor being closely related himself to Alfred E. ;)


    The Sonata Innamorata and Pervertimento for Bagpipes, Bicycle and Balloons, S. 66 are great examples of his genius.:D
     
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  48. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    Hmm, Tappy didn’t give me any notification of this! :growl:

    P.D.Q. Bach...a name to conjure with! The humor seems similar to old Marx Bro’s jokes. lol I see auld P.D.Q. playing boogie woogie or something! When he’s not pervertimenting sonatas, that is.

    Thanks, I needed some fun jokes today. If I took everything seriously, I’d have ended up in a Kurosawa flick committing seppuku already!
     
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