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ECC BANS ALL CLONES FROM BEING SOLD
- Thread starter VaporJoe
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personally, I have been a tobacco user for 20yrs.FDA approved cessation products did nothing for me. Except make me feel like a failure, destined to die.
crappy cigalike devices such as blu gave me hope .but cigalikes are crap. I spent more more on them than tobacco, trying to break free. I turned to ego style batteries and locally made ejuice. I went tobacco free for nearly 3 months. But then the typical tobacco cessation side effects kicked and thanks to paranoid posts and disinformation on a certain ecig forum. ...three letter acronym...i gave up on vaping. Then at tax refund time, I went with instinct. I left the ego clones behind and invested in mechs and rebuildable clones....
yes. China fist farks capitalism, free trade, and open market economy. But without their clones, I'd still be smoking 2 packs a day and might not see my 3 young sons become men.
there's nothing wrong with wanting to pay top dollar for an original device .
but, vaping is about so much more. It's a lifeline and a new life for tobacco addicts.
there's a need for premiumish devices to help people kick tobacco. These same people can't afford the innovative , premium devices they NEED.
the most creative,innovative American mod maker, Zen, understands and welcomes the clone market.
if Zen isn't butthurt...why are you?
crappy cigalike devices such as blu gave me hope .but cigalikes are crap. I spent more more on them than tobacco, trying to break free. I turned to ego style batteries and locally made ejuice. I went tobacco free for nearly 3 months. But then the typical tobacco cessation side effects kicked and thanks to paranoid posts and disinformation on a certain ecig forum. ...three letter acronym...i gave up on vaping. Then at tax refund time, I went with instinct. I left the ego clones behind and invested in mechs and rebuildable clones....
yes. China fist farks capitalism, free trade, and open market economy. But without their clones, I'd still be smoking 2 packs a day and might not see my 3 young sons become men.
there's nothing wrong with wanting to pay top dollar for an original device .
but, vaping is about so much more. It's a lifeline and a new life for tobacco addicts.
there's a need for premiumish devices to help people kick tobacco. These same people can't afford the innovative , premium devices they NEED.
the most creative,innovative American mod maker, Zen, understands and welcomes the clone market.
if Zen isn't butthurt...why are you?
Tripster
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freshness
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Not disagreeing with what you're saying, but House of Hybrids makes quite possibly the most overpriced, and one of the hardest to attain mods out there. For the last 1200 posts, countless people have been bashing modmakers for these EXACT reasons, making mods way too expensive, out of reach and not readily available... The guy charges 50 dollars plus shipping for just a tube (literally a tube, not in the sense you guys use the term, LIKE LITERALLY A CYLINDER and 40 for a topcap).
One blog post over something he has no control over and he's redeemed. Pretty funny if you ask me, of course he's not going to tarnish his name, especially after seeing the backlash towards Hana Modz (which pretty much have ZERO demand or support from the community). He's so happy the Z2 tube fits because now people will buy them for their clones, and that's the real money maker for him, a $50 cylinder? sign me up! The guy has thousands of people on his nuts right now, and he already made his coin. It's not like he had the resources to meet the demand anyways. Wether or not he continues to innovate and create mods remains to be seen. Time will tell.
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The difference with Zen being that he isn't taking a negative stance towards those cloning his designs...it really doesn't give his fan-boys any ammo to do so either when the designer takes the high road and puts a positive spin on it....sure his stuff is expensive....sure he does them in limited runs....what sets him apart from many other high end makers is his attitude...considering some of the "elitist" opinions out there, that attitude stands out and sets him apart from others...respects to Zen....
Z3vapor
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If anyone truly wants to win the Authentic Mod market, they must follow the advertising and business model for Beats By Dre and Apple. People pay for the cool factor especially if you can get a celeb to pimp your gear. Any who yellow poo, to show my support for the "styled" mod community, I will be making another purchase from China (FT) so they can continue to flood the market with affordable devices with hopes to kick Big Tobacco in the tail. =)
freshness
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Mornin Fresh, nice shades, Ray ban??
RayBans are too cheap for me remember?
m3rma1d
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Ha, word, I felt bad for that chick. (and also a wee bit jealous 'cos she has a cool story to tell now)
great response!
you're one of many posters on this thread who have intelligent, well articulated opinions, and contributed in a healthy discussion.
my ocd/geek tendencies tend to focus on what I like. Regardless of what I like, and any feedback about his products... I respect him. Whether it's business or personal, he exhibits great attitude .
freshness
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He definitely did conduct himself very professionally and wholeheartedly. He's on top of the world right now. And with the swarm of ZNA's entering the market, his sales of tubes will surely be on the rise, which likely have the largest margins and require least amount of labor than any product he offers. From a marketing aspect, the tube plug was genius on his end.
I'd be in a pretty good mood too! Also, congrats on getting off the analogs, I will never forget those moments of thinking that I was a lost cause, and would never be able to quit. Not only that, I hid the fact that I smoked from many people, I was constantly brushing my teeth, washing my hands and face, goodness I don't miss those days at all. I still have my last pack of Marlboro 27's from August 2013. It has the same 12 cigarettes in there as when I stashed it away in my closet last year. It's truly a great feeling. You might as well be a different person.
m3rma1d
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I was a Marb 27 smoker too! Haha sorry for being excited over that, but I didn't know many people who loved the 27s like I did.
freshness
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Oh man they were my favorite, and were consistently $1 off on promotion too, I was such a thrifty shopper back then, now I blow so much dough on vapes and juice.
m3rma1d
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Oh man they were my favorite, and were consistently $1 off on promotion too, I was such a thrifty shopper back then, now I blow so much dough on vapes and juice.
PS I used to be a goldsmith so we have a little more in common too.
Yeah, "used to" because I lost my drive... But I saved all my tools/supplies because I REALLY hope to get back to it one day.
Innovaper
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To be clear on something here. One, take a look at who Zen employs, what benefits he gives them, that the materials are from here and the coating. Secondly, for his tube pvs he has the 2.2 which is $100-$130 for an authentic 18650 PV made in the US by US workers with full benefits and employs vets.
You can be angry over the cost of the ZNA all you'd like, but he also does make a lower cost authentic and is doing a DNA module for those z2.2 tubes.
You can have your thoughts that he's excited to cash in on parts and servicing the clone of his device. However it is still a nice response to see in my opinion.
Zen with the z2.2s, Faceless with the IHybrid Pure (hybrid genesis was $100 at launch for 18490 version now been listed on sale for $40) and Trinity(stand alone mechanical mod around $100 for 18650), are good examples of US authentics priced right whilst also taking care of their employees. There are some others, yes there need to be more.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
To be clear Clint does the machining for most of his iHybrid line but the the coatings and some of the other items he ships them out for. Clint does not employ people he contracts the work out to other companies.
Most modders that produce 5 or 6 hundred or more mods do this. Some smaller people are able to produce their own mods with their limited equipment but the prices are still 10x the cost of production.
Check prices here on metals and see how much a 3 inch tube with another 3 inch solid piece of .875in anything cost and then look at the price of a mod. If the piece is hand turned then I can see paying a premium price of 200+ but even hana boxes are pre-made and only cost about $10 dollars. Very few people hand turn stuff these days.
Edit because of spelling
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I'd have a little more sympathy for some of the original mod makers like MOJO and atmomixani if they actually paid the artists for the artwork they stole to put onto a tube that they bitch about getting reproduced. I own both clones and authentics, from what I've seen there's very little difference in performance between them... caravela or gp paps being good examples (I've owned authentics and clones of both). Cloning is actually a product of the authentic producers, if you short the market or put a high price on an in demand item, you open yourself up to someone else filling the gap. Rolex is a good example, there are exponentially more clones/fakes/counterfeit than authentics. It doesn't matter whether you're a big company or a small company, whether you meant to over price or short the market or not. Innovating and producing enough product at various levels is a solution for the authentic modders. If you're too small a company to do it, do your small trial run as proof you're idea is sound, then get funding for a real run... you'd be surprised how much money a bank will shell out. I've worked as a credit lender as well as running 3 successful businesses (and yes, I absolutely have competition in China cloning my technology and techniques). Modders or resellers of authentics acting like the asshats in the video from ecc are just encouraging people to buy clones. They end up looking like they need a diaper change, it's comical.
ClonesRAuthenticReplicas
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This just illustrates how much of an unethical tunnel vision these greedy elitists have. They knowingly lied in an attempt to eliminate their competition at the show.
How about we talk about what kind of battery they person was using instead of the fact that it was a clone? The thing that took place at vape blast could have just as easily happened with an Authentic with the wrong battery, since they are almost exactly the same. They also left out the fact that the user incorrectly modified the switch himself.
It seems their are no depths these anti-consumer choice scumbags won't stoop to in order to push their profiteering agenda. They dream of having all consumers bent over a barrel, being forced to pay $300 per tube mod, like in their 'good ole days', when the market was still in its infancy.
What kind of tube is irrelevant if a user uses an incorrect battery, improper switch mod, while sub-ohming too low. Bringing attention to this possibility will bite them more than their competition since having to pay extra taxes/regulation fees will add a lot more to the cost of a $300 device than it will to a $25 device, but they seem to be blinded by their own greed and desire for control.
It seems they'd rather risk damaging the entire community than admit to themselves that they've lost market share due to their own failure to provide consumers with what they want at fair prices. Rather than see the writing on the wall indicating that their greed and incompetence to compete in the market is bringing their free gravy train ride to an end, they resort to blaming everything bad - from exploded batteries to terrorism - on the clones. They are a truly pathetic and disgusting lot.
Their efforts have made an impact, however. They have motivated me to go on a mod clone shopping spree. Why not? For one, I will be voting in favor of clones in the marketplace. Secondly, I will acquire a nice stockpile, just in case the Elitists manage to ruin it for everyone, & to have extras to pass on to others if they are ever in a spot where their ability to get one at a fair price is hampered.
Additionally, I don't see prices for mech mods getting much lower. In fact, the Greedy Elitists seem to be inviting government regulation of the industry with all the waves of Negative Attention they have brought over the last few days:
(1) sponsored & filmed thugs confrontation at vape show,
(2) are attempting to connect clones with supporting terrorism, and advertising this nonsense on T-shirts,
(3) deceptively ringing loudly the alarm message that mech mods are dangerous (although minor compared to items such as guns, cars, etc in the wrong hands. , It's really just effectively 'shorting' the lion battery that is of concern, but that still gives ammunition to the community's enemies). This is a transparent and deceptive attempt to eliminate their competition.
Finally, they have also motivated me to remind every other vaping consumer I can to avoid buying from any of those who are so blatantly working to undermine the vast majority of our community, and we know who they are. Hana was already on my list, and that was apparently Brian Nashik of Fall Out Mods (seller of Mutant) behind the ECC (toilet) paper serving.
I hope a FU Nashik or FU Mutant clone comes soon, as I'm confident it would be a huge hit (I'll buy several) due to the outrageous behavior accompanying the story behind it.
Feel free to add suggestions for adding to this list, such as which vendors were wearing and/or pushing those BS T-shirts.
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I still say those manbaby asshats need beaten with socks that have mods in them.
One sock has an authentic the other a clone and see which one feels authentic.
VaporJoe
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Seems they keep crying about the videos and getting them taken down.. and the community keeps putting them back up...
Tripster
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I love this Cloning of the video, let's see them do a C&D about this.
If they were not ecc staffers, paid for a booth at the show then they have zero leg to stand on and should be beaten.
If you wanna sling shit like terrorism around and act like this disrupting sales for someone who spent thousands for a booth.. who is the real terrorist.
Of course they're crying, that what big babies with a hot load in their diapers do .
Tripster
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Some people just don't understand the word "Terrorist", "Terrorism", and "Terror"....here it is for them: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terror
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/terrorism
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/terrorist
Hmmmm....?
Bold Vapor
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I REALLY hope you get back into it too.PS I used to be a goldsmith so we have a little more in common too.
Yeah, "used to" because I lost my drive... But I saved all my tools/supplies because I REALLY hope to get back to it one day.
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kelli
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Is that Brian Nashik at the begining? The guy on the left. (Fall Out Mods - Mutant) Probably hurt cause IJoye cloned his Mutant.
if you don't want the video on the internet
and you upload it,
you're gonna have a bad time
Tripster
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I just find it odd that I can't find this T-Shirt anywhere on the internet or I'm slow but seems rather derogatory and can't figure out if it was on purpose or I'm looking way to deep into this whole T-Shirt thing?
Tripster
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Ah but what I'm gettin at here is that there might be some racial hatred involved as well.
VapingJunkie
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Ugh.... as if I didn't have enough against these dickwads anyway... prejudiced bigotry in vaping AND in life? I just seriously hope this guy stays in his *small* circle of friends, or he might get fucked up.
Sent from the Otter Box around my Galaxy S4.
freshness
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PS I used to be a goldsmith so we have a little more in common too.
Yeah, "used to" because I lost my drive... But I saved all my tools/supplies because I REALLY hope to get back to it one day.
What, tell me more? The market has changed a lot in recent years, almost nothing I make is handmade anymore unfortunately which sucks. There's still a demand for it, but for the most part 3D printing is dominating the industry. I've been doing 3D printing for a few years now, occasionally I make a piece that is so intricate, like with the locks, or hinges, that I do by hand.
freshness
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Poor guys thought they were so badass. And his converse look like they're about to split in half.
Tripster
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It's rather clear that these iJoy employees knew what was up due to the T-Shirt the guy was wearing and most likely the demeanor (of course the paper and camera in hand as well). I don't want to get too involved with investigating my claim/speculation/assumption but I just see these fucktards pulling this type of behavior (the T-Shirt instantly cried what I'm thinking). Are they calling China/Other country of origin Manufacturers "Terrorist" or is it due to racial profiling cause I can clearly come to the conclusion they're not talking about Manufacturers.
This has been bothering me since I saw the video and analyzed it (I ain't a Criminal Profiler or the like).
Honestly, I could be completely wrong and if I am I do apologize and the mods can purge this or keep it up to make me look foolish.
kelli
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now that you mention it..........
Tripster
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That is creepy and SeaHawks!