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converting from cloud chasing to FLAVOR chasing

Discussion in 'Flavor Chasers Corner' started by fckaugust8th, Jul 1, 2016.

  1. AndriaD

    AndriaD It's NOT freaking BUBONIC PLAGUE! VU Donator Diamond Contributor ECF Refugee Member For 5 Years

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    Thank you. The way it "should be" for me is a way that satisfies my need to smoke, which means a tight mouth-to-lung draw. Huffing is nothing like smoking, and would never satisfy me, even IF my asthmatic lungs could handle it.

    Andria
     
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  2. pulsevape

    pulsevape Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    exactlly just as there were cigarette smokers....pipe smokers..and cigar smokers...and smokers who enjoyed ..all the diffrent ways of smoking so it is with vaping...when I wanted a quick nic fix I went for a cigarette, but when I wanted to enjoy the flavor of good tobacco I went for a cigar....or even a pipe..or roll your own...so it is with vaping...

    I'm a flavor chaser..I'm a foodie...when I make lasagna it take me a day or even two..I have to make the sauce and let it cook I have to make the pasta and roll it out and parboil it..I have to make the vegtable filling I have to make meatballs I have to build the lasagna....but it is worth it...on the same hand much to my wife's horror I occasionally love a good chili dog...or even a bad chili dog....with cheese please.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2016
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  3. f1r3b1rd

    f1r3b1rd Phantom Pilot Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor VU Challenge Team Member For 5 Years

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    I have an authentic hurricane and about to get the junior. I was ready to pop for the gem2 then the kf5 released and I just ordered a second kf5 and a kfmini v3. (I have an old kitty bitty VSDNA30 that needs to get brished off and given a good mini topper
    The gem may never get purchased- lol

    For rdas the Petris is my gold standard for flavor(replaced the tugboats) I have the magma, magma reborn and Kennedy comp (v1 and v2)
    From what I get the Bottom airflow seems to make fruiter flavors pop more and give a more saturated vape, the side airflow seems to give me a denser cloud an pull out the pastry flavors and savory flavor more.
     
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  4. Chainvapor

    Chainvapor Silver Contributor Member For 4 Years ECF Refugee

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    I have a Billow V3 Plus - My build is ROFVAPE Alien coil from 101vape.com - 4 wraps around a 3mm Screwdriver with dual coils it comes in at about 0.24ohms. I vape this setup with wide open airflow at 55 Watts on a DNA200 Releaux and it rocks! The flavor is the best I have had and may even eeek out my Aromamizer Supreme for flavor. I am using "Batter Up" from Mech sauce for my juice. Here is a link to my review of a few of their flavors >> MECHSAUCE REVIEWS <<

    Sincerely,
    Mr. Chainvapor :)
     
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  5. Jimi D

    Jimi D Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years ECF Refugee

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    You want flavor, build this :giggle:

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. HondaDavidson

    HondaDavidson Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    IMO, Huffing is exactly like smoking...... just not the form of smoking we discuss here.

    Flavor wise i think MTL give the best flavor and DL the most flavor. The best wick for flavor often depends which atty or juice or power levels you are vaping. I use cotton or silica in my drippers and kayfuns and mesh or silica in my gennies. Which I use depends on how much effort I want to contribute at the time. Cotton being the easiest and mesh the most difficult to get right.

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
     
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  7. AndriaD

    AndriaD It's NOT freaking BUBONIC PLAGUE! VU Donator Diamond Contributor ECF Refugee Member For 5 Years

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    Actually I had to stop huffing even that, but use a MtL inhale... asthma's a bitch!

    Andria
     
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  8. joeyboy

    joeyboy Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    I tried mtl again based on this thread. My build is not set up for it. Thr larger drip tips don't work for me either. My mutation x with 510 is my best mtl with 26g.
     
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  9. HondaDavidson

    HondaDavidson Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Yeah thats part of the problem.. Most of the current vaping gear is oriented high power vaping.. More power, more air,more clouds, more flavor. It is designed to please the, "I want it.... and I want it NOW and Look what I have " crowd.

    Set-ups that make lots of clouds, can make lots of flavor, but the set-ps that make the best flavor don't always make the best clouds. Both can fog a room. After all back in the day a setup making 1 to 1.5ohm at 10-15watts was considered extreme cloud making gear. Flavor chasing was done at 2ohm or more using a cartomizer or a geni. Both of which still provide the best flavor, IMO. They are just not as easy to use as today's Clearos (subtanks), RDAs and RTAs or with todays juices. VG and low power gear don't always play well together.
     
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  10. KingLouie

    KingLouie Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years Member For 2 Years Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    IMO, vape experience is #1 factor, 'clouds' is just the result. If i get the best vape experience from something that chucks clouds, great, if i get the best vape experience from something that blows thin mist- thats fine by me too. Like ive said before with other people- its all preference.

    People in vape shops and my friends who use RDA's sometimes give me funny looks or laugh at me when i let them hit my mod for the first time, and they see its set to only 13-20 watts. I usually build anywhere from .9 to 1.3 on my RTA's, so i only need that much power. It puts out a surprising amount of vapor for that power, but alot of people just assume 'more power = better vape' when in my experience thats not always the case. But again, thats my preference, it might not be the next guys.
     
  11. joeyboy

    joeyboy Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    A dual coil at 0.9 is a lot of wire. I have used 0.6 total with 26g duals. That does vapor okay and flavor is good, just not as thick vapor as lower gauge wire. I vaped that at 32 watts, give or take.
     
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  12. KingLouie

    KingLouie Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years Member For 2 Years Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    I vape almost exclusively single coil, i guess i didnt elaborate. Yes, dual coil at .9 would be alot of wire. dual coil at 1.3 would be massive:D
     
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  13. Time

    Time Platinum Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Yep. Cotton wick acts as a filter. It will filter out a portion of flavor chemicals, and not equally, as some molecules are larger than others so those larger ones get filtered more. It's a physics thing.

    Mesh and ceramic would allow the flavor chemicals to move to the wick much more freely than cotton.

    I still haven't moved up to a genny, cause it's summer and I have things to do, but it's gonna happen.
     
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  14. fckaugust8th

    fckaugust8th Guest

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    got a .2 ss fused clapton 9 wrap build in my avocado right now....producing good flavor but need better.....should i go with a higher gauge wire or try space claptons
     
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  15. KingLouie

    KingLouie Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years Member For 2 Years Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    I believe, although dont quote me because ive never had one, but the avocado is good with mesh.. i even know a friend who would put two mesh wicks from the bottom of the avocado to the build deck then just build it like a dripper and wicked it with cotton to touch the tops of the mesh wick, if you can picture that. Im sure you could just use straight up mesh if you bent it or used vertical coils. Claptons give good flavor from what i hear, they are too gnarly for me though.

    I believe you meant to say lower gauge wire, as that has a quicker ramp up time, so it might give you better flavor on something like the avocado. on the avocado 24 im sure you could go as low as 24 or even 22 if you felt so inclined..
     
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  16. fckaugust8th

    fckaugust8th Guest

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    what would you all say is the ideal flavor chaser's build? i have just about every kind of wire there is in every gauge lol
     
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  17. KingLouie

    KingLouie Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years Member For 2 Years Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    It really depends on the atomizer, and your vaping style i guess. the 'ideal build' is like asking what the ideal political canidate is, people will argue for eternity over it.

    Some people will say big builds & big wattage, which does give you a warmer vape so you could say its more flavorful, but youre also just going through your juice alot faster, and on drippers getting some in your mouth so that might contribute to their flavor:D

    For me, its a simple 28 gauge build with some mesh or rayon, but im a simple guy. Try rayon or mesh if youre using an avocado 24, cotton isnt a dealbreaker but alot of people, myself included, agree rayon/mesh is better for conducting flavor. Rayon acts like cotton, so if you dont want to jump to a genesis or mess with building mesh, it wouldnt hurt to pickup some rayon, it wicks just like cotton and its cheap. Try some claptons or an alien build in there, id do single coil personally. Im too OCD for duals.

    to put it simply, sorry for the indirect answer, but Taste is subjective. Theres no agreed upon ideal build amongst all vapers.
     
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  18. AndriaD

    AndriaD It's NOT freaking BUBONIC PLAGUE! VU Donator Diamond Contributor ECF Refugee Member For 5 Years

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    I was thinking there are probably as many answers as there are mods and attys! I have to vape very moderately to spare my lungs, but I gotta have rich, intense, saturated flavor. I build my coils to just over 2 ohms; 9 wraps kanthal around 3/32, and run it usually around 10w -- but I have probably the best flavor atty ever made, the Achilles. Draw as tight as a carto's -- and no, cartos aren't any good for rich flavor, or I'd still be using them, as tight a draw as I like -- the flavor is so rich and saturated that when I first started using it, I thought I was getting juice in my mouth -- but I wasn't, it's just that intense a flavor. I don't get juice in my mouth because I use either an angled driptip adapter or a knucklehead driptip.

    But every atty requires its own special build, to perform at its best. And everyone's perception of "best" is wildly, vastly different.

    Andria
     
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  19. KingLouie

    KingLouie Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years Member For 2 Years Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    agreed. and that achillies looks really neat. I have to say ive seen alot of atomizers like that- with a long airflow tube you build on top of, but being that yours is titanium, im sure ittl last a lifetime.. great buy!:) Its my style for sure.

    Sadly, that style of atomizer is considered ancient now, i doubt anything like it will be produced in the future. If someone does though- props to them. Im hoping that in the coming years us MTL'ers dont get left in the dust.. Yes, im looking at you Kayfun 5..:facepalm:

    When i first started vaping i remember- when i made the jump from a EGO to a rebuildable (igo-L) the guy at the vape store drilled the airhole out super wide without even asking me, i was such a rebuildable noob i thought it came like that. I said to all my friends at the time 'screw this, im never going to upgrade from an ego..' and sold my friend the igo-l, lol
    Ive had direct lung hit phases on and off throughout the years, but always come home to kayfuns n such:D
     
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  20. AndriaD

    AndriaD It's NOT freaking BUBONIC PLAGUE! VU Donator Diamond Contributor ECF Refugee Member For 5 Years

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    Well, I've got 2 clones of the original Achilles, which are my favorites. After all this FDA shit hit the fan, I broke down and got an authentic Achilles 2, but it's too airy; the inner airhole at the top of the stack is much too big, 2.5mm, so even with the (frucking horrible) newfangled AFC ring nearly closed, it's still too loose a draw. But, I've got some 13ga needles on the way, outer diam. 2.26mm, so I'm hoping I can modify that inner airhole by inserting one of those 13ga needles in it and having my husband cut it off with a dremel wheel. I've done a similar thing to the inner airholes of my Magmas, and it helps, but I used 14ga needles so it's not perfect, and they still leak. I'm gonna try the 13ga needles in those too, see if they do a better job of plugging up the leaking. Seeing as no, they DON'T make great tight-draw RDAs anymore, it's time to get creative. ;)

    Andria
     
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  21. inspects

    inspects Squonkamaniac Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 5 Years

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    Personally, which is very subjective. I've found stainless coils and rayon improve taste exponentially.
     
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  22. HondaDavidson

    HondaDavidson Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    There is no best build for flavor or anything else for that matter. The requirements change for each atty, juice, mod and user. I will give example of the best for me and my equipment. Mechanical mods tube and squonk..

    On the Tube I run my tanks, Kayfuns and Gene's. For the Kayfuns I like twisted 32 kanthal at about 1-1.2 ohms. My Sat22 is running 32kanthal 4 wraps about 1.9ohms.
    On the squonker I mainly use a Hobo 3 clone in the .8-1ohm range or a Chalice 3 at .9-1.2ohms.

    The only wire I use is 28,29,30,31 and 32 awg If I need lower resistance, I twist wires together. Why.... multiple twisted small wires tend run faster and have more surface area, than 1 big fat wire at a given resistance per mm/inch. 2x29 is about the same resitance as 26awg, but the resulting coil will have about 40% more surface area for vapor to form on. Now in this example the twisted coil might need more watts than the 26, cause is is also a lower heat flux. But it was a quick and dirty example. I the real world I would decice a ohm and wattage I want to run. Then play with wire combinations in steam-engine to get the Heat flux into the ranges I like or desire. I would chose 32 nich twisted with 31 kanthal over 2x31 kanthal. Nearly same HF and HC but the mixed coil will be a hair more surface area and a tiny bit faster.
     
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  23. AmandaD

    AmandaD Platinum Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Agreed! The only way to find your own sweet spot is trial and error :p
     
  24. joeyboy

    joeyboy Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Where do you buy your wire from? I think I want to try this method. How will this work on a tank?
     
  25. HondaDavidson

    HondaDavidson Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    I use kanthal and Nichrome. I buy it from whomever has the lowest price delivered. IMO wire is wire is wire, don't care what brand name says. Most of my spools are from Lightning Vapes, I also have some from fasttech and the local vape shop. Will pickup some SS wire next time I order.

    What method??? I do basic coil builds, mostly single coils, sometimes duals. only fancy thing I do is twist wires together before coiling them. I guess you ould say my method for twisting wire is different, as I use gravity and hand twisting to a specific twist pitch... rather than the standard , chuck it in a drill and twist till it breaks, method.
    Which tank? Some tank don't work well at above 1ohm others like my Kayfuns don't work well below 1ohm. I suggest starting with the basics, at about 50% the wattage you are used to or think you need. More is NOT always better. More is just easier to do.
     
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  26. KingLouie

    KingLouie Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years Member For 2 Years Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    I agree with everything stated above ^ :)

    I dont care where my wire comes from, as far as my knowledge goes its all the same.

    & start low, work your way up. My favorite employee at my local B&M taught me that early.
     
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  27. joeyboy

    joeyboy Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Just trying to decide what gauges to get. Been on nothing but 22g kanthal for a while. Thinking 30 for sure.
     
  28. Huckleberried

    Huckleberried Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 5 Years

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    That's a good point. I have all kinds of sizes for drip tips. I get my best, and most flavorful at around a 4mm ID. Smaller, still gives me good flavor, but I feel like I'm choking, and wide bore, is just too much for me.
    It truly is, but at least we don't have to use all the power. Mine are all middle of the road, but I use them at a lower scale. Vaping can be fullly customized :D
     
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  29. KingLouie

    KingLouie Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years Member For 2 Years Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    22? you must drip, if thats your style of vaping maybe 28, its a pretty happy medium. Unless twisted or made into claptons or something, 30 is pretty high for a dripping experience, especially if you are used to 22. dont quote me, but i believe 28 gauge is the most widely used kanthal?
     
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  30. AndriaD

    AndriaD It's NOT freaking BUBONIC PLAGUE! VU Donator Diamond Contributor ECF Refugee Member For 5 Years

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    Probably. I've never been able to get a good vape from wire that fat, though; to me, the very best is 29ga -- higher resistance, but almost as sturdy as the 28ga; nice happy medium. :)

    Andria
     
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  31. joeyboy

    joeyboy Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    I do drip almost exclusively until I just got the tanks. 28 wasn't doing it for me. 22 was best for mechs. Maybe I will get some 30 kanthal and twist two for a tank.

    I don't even like 24g kanthal.
     
  32. joeyboy

    joeyboy Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    I have to heat fast and pull hard. It's not good for mtl. Too slow to heat.
     
  33. joeyboy

    joeyboy Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Using dual 10 wrap 22g kanthal in my boreas. Massive vapor. Will be redoing it.
     
  34. KingLouie

    KingLouie Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years Member For 2 Years Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    Hey if thats what works for you, nothing wrong with that. Call me oldschool
     
  35. skt239

    skt239 VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    The best comprise I've found between vapor and flavor is the Tsunami. I have a couple of the 22's and a 24 but much prefer the 22. Best part is, the black 22 is less than $20 on vape royalty.
     
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  36. AndriaD

    AndriaD It's NOT freaking BUBONIC PLAGUE! VU Donator Diamond Contributor ECF Refugee Member For 5 Years

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    29ga heats a hell of a lot faster than 22ga! Geez, 22ga is like big fat coathanger wire or something! 29ga is *almost* as fast as 30ga, but almost as sturdy at 28ga.

    Andria
     
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  37. joeyboy

    joeyboy Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    I see twisted all the time. I am pretty limited right now. Good stuff to think about. Thanks.
     
  38. joeyboy

    joeyboy Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    That's true but the wires are like ice cream to ice milk. 22g would be ice cream and 29 ice milk. Thickness is different. Flavor is still there for both but to get there it takes different methods, somewhat. May try twisted. Really thinking about it.
     
  39. joeyboy

    joeyboy Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    So I bought 30g kanthal. What the heck. I will try it.
     
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  40. HondaDavidson

    HondaDavidson Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    I think you miss the point of the thread.. It's about making a flavor chaser out of a cloud chaser.

    First thing to remember. Great flavor DOES NOT require and is often hampered by massive vapor. The very process of making all that steam, COOK the flavor out of said steam and dilute it with air. As I have said before, It is easy to get TONS of flavor. Mainly because it is easy to make a cloud. Big coil in a big volume atty with lots of air flow and you feed it a bunch of voltage. Simple, Brut Force vaping equal a lots of juice converted to vapor. The faster you make the conversion and the more juice you consume per push of the button the bigger the clouds and the more flavor you produce. Think beer bong. Do you even taste that beer coming down the hose. Yeah, but if you want to enjoy your favorite beer... You sip it from a glass.
     
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  41. pulsevape

    pulsevape Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    It is a pretty well known consensus that the best buid for flavor was the porous ceramic wick used in a genny...this produced the best flavor by far than any vaping build I've ever tried....but most people found porous ceramic wciks in gennys a very fustrating build due to the fragility of the wick, and the difficulty in using these wicks....though I've never tried the Vaperoso ceramic coils I would bet they are a very good flavour build due to it's ceramic coils.
     
  42. joeyboy

    joeyboy Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    @HondaDavidson
    I do understand, just some tanks and rdas aren't made for sipping. They give great flavor using opposite theory you present. The theory behind cloud chasing mainly has to do with air. Insufficient air and you have no clouds. Chamber size is important as is coil build. Put your type of coil in a cloud chaser rda with the watts you mention and it will be like driving a dodge slant 6 with holly double pumper. No performance.

    The answer for people looking for flavor is always finding the smallest 510 drip tip out there, using a 1/16 coil and 10 watts power.

    I can drink Pepsi through a swizzle straw but that doesn't make it any more flavorful.

    I use larger wire because I get good flavor. That's why those who swear by claptons love them. They swear by the flavor. They aren't using a swizzle straw or 10 watts.

    Nothing wrong with old school but sometimes it doesn't work, especially with airy devices.
     
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  43. HondaDavidson

    HondaDavidson Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    I guess, as usual, it comes down to personal preference, using the right tool for the job and life experience.

    What it really comes down to, is a famous presidential quote. "it depends on what the definition of "is" is...." Bill Clinton.

    That slant six might not perform in a quarter mile. compared to modern motors. But I betit be better in a hill climb or any situation where torque is the more critical than HP. Tractor vs race car.... right tool for the job.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2016
  44. AndriaD

    AndriaD It's NOT freaking BUBONIC PLAGUE! VU Donator Diamond Contributor ECF Refugee Member For 5 Years

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    1/16 coil is a bit extreme. I use a 3/32 drillbit to wrap my coils. But yes to the narrow aperture in the driptip and the 10w. I find that driptips with a 4mm opening work best; I've got some with even smaller apertures, but the stream of vapor coming thru is so concentrated, it tends to be a little too warm.

    Andria
     
  45. joeyboy

    joeyboy Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    @HondaDavidson
    My slant 6 was great, unless you wanted to go faster than 81 mph. Different strokes for different folks.
     
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  46. nightshard

    nightshard It's VG/PG not PG/VG VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    The build and wattage should be suitable for the type of atty used.
    Taking a DL atty and using it with a little thin coil and at low wattage won't turn it into a MTL atty.
     
    AndriaD and HondaDavidson like this.
  47. HondaDavidson

    HondaDavidson Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    I drive JEEPs....... I know what you mean. Thing wont out run, it's own wake. It's straight six will do over 100 on dirt, but clean shorts are suggested, after about 75 on pavement. But in a Tug O War or over a pile of boulders or through a mud puddle, it's a completely different story.
     
    joeyboy likes this.
  48. Huckleberried

    Huckleberried Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 5 Years

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    I think it also depends on everyone's definition of flavorful. Sounds stupid, I know. With a Merlin, 3mm ID, rayon wicking, higher PG (because I have to) and a simple little spaced coil made with 28g wire, I get immense flavor... for me, plus it seems the tank likes this set up best. I use one of those shorty kinda POM drip tips, I'm also a low wattage vaper, resistance about 1 ohm. Oh.. airflow restrictor in, AFC - doesn't matter on this tank, because it's the same no matter if wide open or barely open. (weird)

    Goblin Mini, 2.4mm ID, same wire, same type of build, still low ohms, airflow control about halfway open, same kind of drip tip. I get tons of flavor.

    Everyone has their faves, and really, you just gotta keep playing around till you find what works for you. I honestly used to get incredible flavor from a Protank 2, drilled out a bit, higher ohms, rebuilt coils, lol. I'd still use it, if it came down to it. Seriously good flavor and people bitched at me all the time for not giving that tank up.

    I also have gear that's more directed for a DL vape. Not my preference, but I can get used to it and still get awesome flavor.
     
    KingLouie likes this.
  49. fckaugust8th

    fckaugust8th Guest

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    man i just picked up a couple rdas and the flavor is so good.....got so wrapped up in all the new rdtas, my bsc comp rda is definitely my new favorite
     
    Huckleberried likes this.
  50. fckaugust8th

    fckaugust8th Guest

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    loving my new merlin rta for flavor.....also started using rayon....AMAZING
     
    Satchvai and Huckleberried like this.

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