Smok

[JuicyLucy]

I guess it depends on how tight testing and reporting is defined.

Not at all - as of right now, no official or defined testing occurs outside of what the manufacturer decides to do

The new registration requirements are indeed brand new and basically it is manufacturers giving the FDA information about what they make with what materials- that is it

The requirements are being phased in and the dates for what will happen when - as well as what will be required - change a lot

Now the Deeming Regs - or 8/8 - is how most of us long-term vapers call them - will bring a lot of havoc to the industry - it already has since they were first published May 8, 2016 and a large number of vape and/or juice makers in the US have gone out of business rather than deal with them

The writers of the Deeming Regs blatantly stated in years past that the regulations would crush the US vape industry and effectively outlaw new products

While the rules have relaxed some and the current administration is taking a more reasonable approach to regulation - personally I detest it and am enjoying my market driven vaping, if you please

You have a lot to read and learn (And I mean A LOT) before you can make an informed decision on whether the deeming regs are good for you or the vaping industry

 

[Polargirl]

Not at all - as of right now, no official or defined testing occurs outside of what the manufacturer decides to do

The new registration requirements are indeed brand new and basically it is manufacturers giving the FDA information about what they make with what materials- that is it

The requirements are being phased in and the dates for what will happen when - as well as what will be required - change a lot

Now the Deeming Regs - or 8/8 - is how most of us long-term vapers call them - will bring a lot of havoc to the industry - it already has since they were first published May 8, 2016 and a large number of vape and/or juice makers in the US have gone out of business rather than deal with them

The writers of the Deeming Regs blatantly stated in years past that the regulations would crush the US vape industry and effectively outlaw new products

While the rules have relaxed some and the current administration is taking a more reasonable approach to regulation - personally I detest it and am enjoying my market driven vaping, if you please

You have a lot to read and learn (And I mean A LOT) before you can make an informed decision on whether the deeming regs are good for you or the vaping industry

I think the regs are horrible. I just wish some companies wouldn't have behaved in a manner that made it easier for government grifters to take the market over.

 

[Synphul]

Made in the u.s. doesn't automatically mean 'better'. Asia certainly proved that with the car market when nissan, toyota and honda went from crappy little imports that sounded like lawnmowers missing a muffler to higher end sought after vehicles with high resale value. We make plenty of garbage in the u.s. and some of the 'quality' things the u.s. does make like mag lights they can't even claim 'made in the u.s.' because of one funky little part that isn't even available in the u.s.

Even a lot of u.s. designed mods and atties are sent overseas to be built. I checked the reddit ecig area, went through about 8 consecutive pages. The two people mentioning mod issues by name were both sigelei. One said that an alien caught fire from a reputable source. The user continued to use the mod after the screen died and there was glowing from behind the screen. Mmhmm, user error. Do they keep driving when there's steam coming from under their hood til the motor seizes and blows?

Another said it was sparking and burning, then edited and said -
"EDIT 2: Swapped out the tank. Was definitely an Atty problem
EDIT 3: I fixed it by fiddling with the bottom of the atomizer. It was causing the short. The mod is fine dont not consider it because of my user error"

Another said their mod had been 'acting funny' (no further clarification) but they popped fresh batteries into it and continued to use it damaged - then smelled something that smelled like burning.

Another said that their mod started heating up and when they opened it the batteries were bubbled up and vented. Supposedly they used the batteries from the 'kit' however far as I know, the alien kit doesn't come with batteries. I did find someplace selling batteries with the kit, efests. They were charging internally.

Another said theirs went up in smoke in their car when plugged into the car charger and stated 'yes i knew this shouldn't be used'. So they figured it was a bad idea, did it anyway and bad things happened. They even finished up their post with a single word "Shocking". How ironic.

Another said they plugged the mod into their pc to charge it up and then booted their pc. The pc wouldn't boot and the mod fried, after they unplugged the mod the pc booted ok. Not sure who would plug something in to charge from the pc before firing it up, seems it got a healthy boost of misdirected power.

Finally one that mentions an autofire issue.

Another autofiring issue, but this time they say when they took it back to the store they found juice had flooded everywhere into the 510.

Someone mentioned flames coming out of their tank air holes, not the mod after several bouts of incorrect resistance readings jumping and the mod saying 'don't abuse products'. The mod warned them there was an issue, they kept pushing it without tending to the issue and somehow got fire (likely from a short internally in the tank/coil). But the thread title said 'smok alien problem & flames' so if you don't read their post, it may cause poor assumptions.

I could go on, I didn't cherry pick but I read straight through 200 posts when searching /r/electronic_cigarette/ for 'smok alien'. Many of these with the exception of one appear to be user error. People continuing to use something when it's not acting right etc. I bought an electric heater once that I returned as faulty, the plug was getting way too hot at the outlet. I didn't wait for the damn thing to catch fire, common sense intervened and said 'uh, something isn't right here - maybe I should stop using it'. I don't care what product it is or who makes it.. if it's a washing machine and there's a funky clunking sound coming from it I don't keep using it until the thing flies apart or attempt to power it like the Griswold's xmas lights then when it melts down be like 'oh well my shit melted.. yea I probably shouldn't have used 9 extension cords and 3 4way splitters held together with duct tape'.

Mods are no different, they're not toys. The push a lot of power in a small package. There's a reason they tell people not to leave them unattended just like most items where there's potential danger. I wish it was more plug and play, idiotproof etc and that every product always worked as intended. That would be bliss but it's not realistic. Folks have to be able to save them from themselves sometimes.

I've made poor choices, but I own them. If I use a power saw without safety glasses and get a wood chip in my eye, well that's on me. I don't run to a forum and immediately bitch like 'omg omg, you won't believe what a piece of shit this thing is. I was using it with the safety guard pulled off and no safety glasses and shit got in my eye - and it hurt'. Then 50 other people read it and run around like chickens with their head cut off screaming what a pile of crap it is.

My guess is there's been a change of heart for the op, just a month ago they listed smok (everything) as the ideal mod for trendy vapers. Yet aliens have had random issues since their release like a lot of other mods in the same price range, sigelei, wismec etc.

 

[Teresa P]

Made in the u.s. doesn't automatically mean 'better'. Asia certainly proved that with the car market when nissan, toyota and honda went from crappy little imports that sounded like lawnmowers missing a muffler to higher end sought after vehicles with high resale value. We make plenty of garbage in the u.s. and some of the 'quality' things the u.s. does make like mag lights they can't even claim 'made in the u.s.' because of one funky little part that isn't even available in the u.s.

Even a lot of u.s. designed mods and atties are sent overseas to be built. I checked the reddit ecig area, went through about 8 consecutive pages. The two people mentioning mod issues by name were both sigelei. One said that an alien caught fire from a reputable source. The user continued to use the mod after the screen died and there was glowing from behind the screen. Mmhmm, user error. Do they keep driving when there's steam coming from under their hood til the motor seizes and blows?

Another said it was sparking and burning, then edited and said -
"EDIT 2: Swapped out the tank. Was definitely an Atty problem
EDIT 3: I fixed it by fiddling with the bottom of the atomizer. It was causing the short. The mod is fine dont not consider it because of my user error"

Another said their mod had been 'acting funny' (no further clarification) but they popped fresh batteries into it and continued to use it damaged - then smelled something that smelled like burning.

Another said that their mod started heating up and when they opened it the batteries were bubbled up and vented. Supposedly they used the batteries from the 'kit' however far as I know, the alien kit doesn't come with batteries. I did find someplace selling batteries with the kit, efests. They were charging internally.

Another said theirs went up in smoke in their car when plugged into the car charger and stated 'yes i knew this shouldn't be used'. So they figured it was a bad idea, did it anyway and bad things happened. They even finished up their post with a single word "Shocking". How ironic.

Another said they plugged the mod into their pc to charge it up and then booted their pc. The pc wouldn't boot and the mod fried, after they unplugged the mod the pc booted ok. Not sure who would plug something in to charge from the pc before firing it up, seems it got a healthy boost of misdirected power.

Finally one that mentions an autofire issue.

Another autofiring issue, but this time they say when they took it back to the store they found juice had flooded everywhere into the 510.

Someone mentioned flames coming out of their tank air holes, not the mod after several bouts of incorrect resistance readings jumping and the mod saying 'don't abuse products'. The mod warned them there was an issue, they kept pushing it without tending to the issue and somehow got fire (likely from a short internally in the tank/coil). But the thread title said 'smok alien problem & flames' so if you don't read their post, it may cause poor assumptions.

I could go on, I didn't cherry pick but I read straight through 200 posts when searching /r/electronic_cigarette/ for 'smok alien'. Many of these with the exception of one appear to be user error. People continuing to use something when it's not acting right etc. I bought an electric heater once that I returned as faulty, the plug was getting way too hot at the outlet. I didn't wait for the damn thing to catch fire, common sense intervened and said 'uh, something isn't right here - maybe I should stop using it'. I don't care what product it is or who makes it.. if it's a washing machine and there's a funky clunking sound coming from it I don't keep using it until the thing flies apart or attempt to power it like the Griswold's xmas lights then when it melts down be like 'oh well my shit melted.. yea I probably shouldn't have used 9 extension cords and 3 4way splitters held together with duct tape'.

Mods are no different, they're not toys. The push a lot of power in a small package. There's a reason they tell people not to leave them unattended just like most items where there's potential danger. I wish it was more plug and play, idiotproof etc and that every product always worked as intended. That would be bliss but it's not realistic. Folks have to be able to save them from themselves sometimes.

I've made poor choices, but I own them. If I use a power saw without safety glasses and get a wood chip in my eye, well that's on me. I don't run to a forum and immediately bitch like 'omg omg, you won't believe what a piece of shit this thing is. I was using it with the safety guard pulled off and no safety glasses and shit got in my eye - and it hurt'. Then 50 other people read it and run around like chickens with their head cut off screaming what a pile of crap it is.

My guess is there's been a change of heart for the op, just a month ago they listed smok (everything) as the ideal mod for trendy vapers. Yet aliens have had random issues since their release like a lot of other mods in the same price range, sigelei, wismec etc.

 

[The Cromwell]

I think Smok mods are like anything else that's popular.
People usually come to forums to bitch when something breaks and rarely go out of their way to post about how great their average $50 mod works.
Even if one smok alien out of 10,000 was a dud it would be enough for there to be multiple dozens of "Smok mods suck ass" posts.

There is also the thing that the vast majority of vapers do not frequent boards like this.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Made in the u.s. doesn't automatically mean 'better'. Asia certainly proved that with the car market when nissan, toyota and honda went from crappy little imports that sounded like lawnmowers missing a muffler to higher end sought after vehicles with high resale value. We make plenty of garbage in the u.s. and some of the 'quality' things the u.s. does make like mag lights they can't even claim 'made in the u.s.' because of one funky little part that isn't even available in the u.s.

Even a lot of u.s. designed mods and atties are sent overseas to be built. I checked the reddit ecig area, went through about 8 consecutive pages. The two people mentioning mod issues by name were both sigelei. One said that an alien caught fire from a reputable source. The user continued to use the mod after the screen died and there was glowing from behind the screen. Mmhmm, user error. Do they keep driving when there's steam coming from under their hood til the motor seizes and blows?

Another said it was sparking and burning, then edited and said -
"EDIT 2: Swapped out the tank. Was definitely an Atty problem
EDIT 3: I fixed it by fiddling with the bottom of the atomizer. It was causing the short. The mod is fine dont not consider it because of my user error"

Another said their mod had been 'acting funny' (no further clarification) but they popped fresh batteries into it and continued to use it damaged - then smelled something that smelled like burning.

Another said that their mod started heating up and when they opened it the batteries were bubbled up and vented. Supposedly they used the batteries from the 'kit' however far as I know, the alien kit doesn't come with batteries. I did find someplace selling batteries with the kit, efests. They were charging internally.

Another said theirs went up in smoke in their car when plugged into the car charger and stated 'yes i knew this shouldn't be used'. So they figured it was a bad idea, did it anyway and bad things happened. They even finished up their post with a single word "Shocking". How ironic.

Another said they plugged the mod into their pc to charge it up and then booted their pc. The pc wouldn't boot and the mod fried, after they unplugged the mod the pc booted ok. Not sure who would plug something in to charge from the pc before firing it up, seems it got a healthy boost of misdirected power.

Finally one that mentions an autofire issue.

Another autofiring issue, but this time they say when they took it back to the store they found juice had flooded everywhere into the 510.

Someone mentioned flames coming out of their tank air holes, not the mod after several bouts of incorrect resistance readings jumping and the mod saying 'don't abuse products'. The mod warned them there was an issue, they kept pushing it without tending to the issue and somehow got fire (likely from a short internally in the tank/coil). But the thread title said 'smok alien problem & flames' so if you don't read their post, it may cause poor assumptions.

I could go on, I didn't cherry pick but I read straight through 200 posts when searching /r/electronic_cigarette/ for 'smok alien'. Many of these with the exception of one appear to be user error. People continuing to use something when it's not acting right etc. I bought an electric heater once that I returned as faulty, the plug was getting way too hot at the outlet. I didn't wait for the damn thing to catch fire, common sense intervened and said 'uh, something isn't right here - maybe I should stop using it'. I don't care what product it is or who makes it.. if it's a washing machine and there's a funky clunking sound coming from it I don't keep using it until the thing flies apart or attempt to power it like the Griswold's xmas lights then when it melts down be like 'oh well my shit melted.. yea I probably shouldn't have used 9 extension cords and 3 4way splitters held together with duct tape'.

Mods are no different, they're not toys. The push a lot of power in a small package. There's a reason they tell people not to leave them unattended just like most items where there's potential danger. I wish it was more plug and play, idiotproof etc and that every product always worked as intended. That would be bliss but it's not realistic. Folks have to be able to save them from themselves sometimes.

I've made poor choices, but I own them. If I use a power saw without safety glasses and get a wood chip in my eye, well that's on me. I don't run to a forum and immediately bitch like 'omg omg, you won't believe what a piece of shit this thing is. I was using it with the safety guard pulled off and no safety glasses and shit got in my eye - and it hurt'. Then 50 other people read it and run around like chickens with their head cut off screaming what a pile of crap it is.

My guess is there's been a change of heart for the op, just a month ago they listed smok (everything) as the ideal mod for trendy vapers. Yet aliens have had random issues since their release like a lot of other mods in the same price range, sigelei, wismec etc.

^^^^^
What he said

 

[Polargirl]

Made in the u.s. doesn't automatically mean 'better'. Asia certainly proved that with the car market when nissan, toyota and honda went from crappy little imports that sounded like lawnmowers missing a muffler to higher end sought after vehicles with high resale value. We make plenty of garbage in the u.s. and some of the 'quality' things the u.s. does make like mag lights they can't even claim 'made in the u.s.' because of one funky little part that isn't even available in the u.s.

Even a lot of u.s. designed mods and atties are sent overseas to be built. I checked the reddit ecig area, went through about 8 consecutive pages. The two people mentioning mod issues by name were both sigelei. One said that an alien caught fire from a reputable source. The user continued to use the mod after the screen died and there was glowing from behind the screen. Mmhmm, user error. Do they keep driving when there's steam coming from under their hood til the motor seizes and blows?

Another said it was sparking and burning, then edited and said -
"EDIT 2: Swapped out the tank. Was definitely an Atty problem
EDIT 3: I fixed it by fiddling with the bottom of the atomizer. It was causing the short. The mod is fine dont not consider it because of my user error"

Another said their mod had been 'acting funny' (no further clarification) but they popped fresh batteries into it and continued to use it damaged - then smelled something that smelled like burning.

Another said that their mod started heating up and when they opened it the batteries were bubbled up and vented. Supposedly they used the batteries from the 'kit' however far as I know, the alien kit doesn't come with batteries. I did find someplace selling batteries with the kit, efests. They were charging internally.

Another said theirs went up in smoke in their car when plugged into the car charger and stated 'yes i knew this shouldn't be used'. So they figured it was a bad idea, did it anyway and bad things happened. They even finished up their post with a single word "Shocking". How ironic.

Another said they plugged the mod into their pc to charge it up and then booted their pc. The pc wouldn't boot and the mod fried, after they unplugged the mod the pc booted ok. Not sure who would plug something in to charge from the pc before firing it up, seems it got a healthy boost of misdirected power.

Finally one that mentions an autofire issue.

Another autofiring issue, but this time they say when they took it back to the store they found juice had flooded everywhere into the 510.

Someone mentioned flames coming out of their tank air holes, not the mod after several bouts of incorrect resistance readings jumping and the mod saying 'don't abuse products'. The mod warned them there was an issue, they kept pushing it without tending to the issue and somehow got fire (likely from a short internally in the tank/coil). But the thread title said 'smok alien problem & flames' so if you don't read their post, it may cause poor assumptions.

I could go on, I didn't cherry pick but I read straight through 200 posts when searching /r/electronic_cigarette/ for 'smok alien'. Many of these with the exception of one appear to be user error. People continuing to use something when it's not acting right etc. I bought an electric heater once that I returned as faulty, the plug was getting way too hot at the outlet. I didn't wait for the damn thing to catch fire, common sense intervened and said 'uh, something isn't right here - maybe I should stop using it'. I don't care what product it is or who makes it.. if it's a washing machine and there's a funky clunking sound coming from it I don't keep using it until the thing flies apart or attempt to power it like the Griswold's xmas lights then when it melts down be like 'oh well my shit melted.. yea I probably shouldn't have used 9 extension cords and 3 4way splitters held together with duct tape'.

Mods are no different, they're not toys. The push a lot of power in a small package. There's a reason they tell people not to leave them unattended just like most items where there's potential danger. I wish it was more plug and play, idiotproof etc and that every product always worked as intended. That would be bliss but it's not realistic. Folks have to be able to save them from themselves sometimes.

I've made poor choices, but I own them. If I use a power saw without safety glasses and get a wood chip in my eye, well that's on me. I don't run to a forum and immediately bitch like 'omg omg, you won't believe what a piece of shit this thing is. I was using it with the safety guard pulled off and no safety glasses and shit got in my eye - and it hurt'. Then 50 other people read it and run around like chickens with their head cut off screaming what a pile of crap it is.

My guess is there's been a change of heart for the op, just a month ago they listed smok (everything) as the ideal mod for trendy vapers. Yet aliens have had random issues since their release like a lot of other mods in the same price range, sigelei, wismec etc.

Made in the USA Barely exists so it is hard to compare. Even most DNA mods are Made in China by Chinese companies. Evolv is more like Cree than Surefire when using flashlight analogies.

Sure, not every product can be idiot proofed. Guns, cars, and power tools are excellent examples. At least these products get recalled when they do have defects rather than threads gaslighting the victims of shoddy products. BMW just recalled one million cars. Auto fan sites don't blame the victims so I don't know why vaping sites do.

And yes, at least those products do have legally mandated recalls when defective. At least Evolv was responsible enough to voluntarily warranty mass defects in its past.

Yes, I did say Smok was trendy. That isn't complimentary. It is the economic version of being politically correct. Both sometimes are spun as being positive.

 

[The Cromwell]

I do not know the board stats but we likely have maybe a couple hundred or so active members on here?
Out of a couple million or so in the USA and 10 million or so worldwide?

 

[JuicyLucy]

It is the economic version of being politically correct

You have to explain that one

Fail to see how how liking a product that a lot of other people like equates to saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas and what have you

 

[Polargirl]

I do not know the board stats but we likely have maybe a couple hundred or so active members on here?
Out of a couple million or so in the USA and 10 million or so worldwide?

That is a good part of my point. The vaping public should not have to rely on a tiny forum sample size that isn't necessarily reflective of vapers as a whole hence extrapolation of board members scaled up to the general vaping population not being reliable.

A more reliable system needed to be implemented. It would have been better that major manufacturers took some initiative to do so themselves rather than give CTP and TPD opportunities to do a whole lot more damage.

I know most neoliberals and libertarians alike cannot grasp the concept that a system of public responsibilities not effectively being met isn't practically sustainable let alone morally desirable so I'll just be hitting a brick wall.

 

[The Cromwell]

That is a good part of my point. The vaping public should not have to rely on a tiny forum sample size that isn't necessarily reflective of vapers as a whole hence extrapolation of board members scaled up to the general vaping population not being reliable.

However if that tiny portion of the vaping public has a notable amount of trouble with a particular brand of vape equipment then it must be really bad?

 

[JuicyLucy]

Frankly, buying vape gear really isn't that different than buying any other consumer product -


The difference is that it is difficult to find vendors that will take a return if you don't like what you bought or it fails quickly


However, don't see it as that much different from buying liquor or tobacco products like cigarettes


Don't know what the laws are in other states, but where I live, no stores will take a return or exchange on tobacco or liquor period - so you better make damn sure you get what you wanted before you walk out of the store. If you find there are problems once you open the pack, it is tough shit

 

[Polargirl]

However if that tiny portion of the vaping public has a notable amount of trouble with a particular brand of vape equipment then it must be really bad?

It is the closest thing to must when more quantitative data is unavailable. Consumers have to have something to go on to be safe and avoid lemons.

 

[Polargirl]

Frankly, buying vape gear really isn't that different than buying any other consumer product -


The difference is that it is difficult to find vendors that will take a return if you don't like what you bought or it fails quickly


However, don't see it as that much different from buying liquor or tobacco products like cigarettes


Don't know what the laws are in other states, but where I live, no stores will take a return or exchange on tobacco or liquor period - so you better make damn sure you get what you wanted before you walk out of the store. If you find there are problems once you open the pack, it is tough shit

And what a huge difference that last point is. It is nearly the entirety of what I am arguing.

 

[JuicyLucy]

And what a huge difference that last point is. It is nearly the entirety of what I am arguing.

But it is no different than other vice-type products - which are mainly or entirely unreturnable for any reason

While I do think it is shitty for a company like Smok to claim they have a great warranty but then fail to honor it or it has such built-in loop holes few if any can take advantage of it, it is the nature of the beast

It is up to the consumer to make an informed decision when buying any product from any vendor, no different than buying a pair of shoes or a blender

 

[Polargirl]

But it is no different than other vice-type products - which are mainly or entirely unreturnable for any reason

While I do think it is shitty for a company like Smok to claim they have a great warranty but then fail to honor it or it has such built-in loop holes few if any can take advantage of it, it is the nature of the beast

It is up to the consumer to make an informed decision when buying any product from any vendor, no different than buying a pair of shoes or a blender

Most other vice products are consumables so comparing non-consumable products like mods to them is a false equivalency.

The word for claiming a great warranty to induce a buyer to purchase that you have no intention of honoring is called fraud more specifically than shitty.

Being an enabler of fraud helps neither the industry nor its customers and the culture around them. It only begets more fraud and venality like ENDS and TPD.

 

[JuicyLucy]

Most other vice products are consumables so comparing non-consumable products like mods to them is a false equivalency

According to ENDS vape gear is tobacco

The word for claiming a great warranty to induce a buyer to purchase that you have no intention of honoring is called fraud more specifically than shitty.

That would be up to a court to decide sadly - to the armchair consumer it is fraud, but to legally call it fraud there has to be an official papertrail

Being an enabler of fraud helps neither the industry nor its customers and the culture around them. It only begets more fraud and venality like ENDS and TPD.

The Deeming Regs (ENDS is merely a component of the Deeming Regs) and TPD were enacted by ANTZ, consumer complaints are merely a sideshow for the real agenda

 

[Polargirl]

According to ENDS vape gear is tobacco



That would be up to a court to decide sadly - to the armchair consumer it is fraud, but to legally call it fraud there has to be an official papertrail




The Deeming Regs (ENDS is merely a component of the Deeming Regs) and TPD were enacted by ANTZ, consumer complaints are merely a sideshow for the real agenda

No dictionary defines the word fraud as being dependent on legal action let alone verdicts. The only courts that have jurisdiction to decide that are in China. I don't believe class actions are available there.

Of course ENDS and TPD are "sideshows" for another fraudulent agenda or the euphemistic word for this in politics -- pretext.

Being an enabler of commercial fraud by blaming and gaslighting its victims makes it far easier to implement far worse political fraud. Even the late 19th century electrical industry grasped this when they created UL to protect its industry against extortionary scoundrels using political pretexts to rob and destroy them while doing little or nothing to actually improve public safety.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

The bottom line with any product is 'know before you buy'. If you know the return policy before you buy it, how can you be upset?
For the first few years, I only bought American made gear, because of the return policy and after point of sale service. I paid 200$ per mod, but that's because I wanted to ensure that service was readily available.


BAM crew

 

[Polargirl]

The bottom line with any product is 'know before you buy'. If you know the return policy before you buy it, how can you be upset?
For the first few years, I only bought American made gear, because of the return policy and after point of sale service. I paid 200$ per mod, but that's because I wanted to ensure that service was readily available.


BAM crew

Smok is not advertising their products as being sold "as is". They are making warranty claims that they aren't honoring. The stated return policy and after sale policy how they actually work are two almost completely opposite things.

What was the point of bringing up spending $200 for a US made mod? Is it if someone doesn't spend the money to buy products from companies that the US legal system has jurisdiction over, they deserve to be victims of fraud?

 

[The Cromwell]

Deserve to be victims of fraud?

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Smok is not advertising their products as being sold "as is". They are making warranty claims that they aren't honoring. The stated return policy and after sale policy how they actually work are two almost completely opposite things.

What was the point of bringing up spending $200 for a US made mod? Is it if someone doesn't spend the money to buy products from companies that the US legal system has jurisdiction over, they deserve to be victims of fraud?

You're missing the point. if you're here to argue you are doing a great job.
Let me rephrase:

I made the PERSONAL CHOICE, to ensure I purchase from certain companies that we're based in the USA to ENSURE I would have that after point of sale service.

I did not say ANYTHING about fraud.

Like ANY other consumer product,the buyer has to take the initiative to research and gain knowledge BEFORE they buy.


BAM crew

 

[Polargirl]

You're missing the point. if you're here to argue you are doing a great job.
Let me rephrase:

I made the PERSONAL CHOICE, to ensure I purchase from certain companies that we're based in the USA to ENSURE I would have that after point of sale service.

I did not say ANYTHING about fraud.

Like ANY other consumer product,the buyer has to take the initiative to research and gain knowledge BEFORE they buy.


BAM crew

And what ensures that service? The US legal system.

You made the point about your mod in the context of a reply to a post about fraud. The most logical conclusion for that point in that context would be that assuming of course you were actually trying to make a counter argument.

The most logical conclusion would have been you were just trend signaling how "in the know" you are to deal with these fraud problems but it would be far more disrespectful to assume blind fanboism than assuming you were trying to make a counter argument. Plenty of likes to validate this conclusion.

 

[SteveS45]

 

[f1r3b1rd]

And what ensures that service? The US legal system.

You made the point about your mod in the context of a reply to a post about fraud. The most logical conclusion for that point in that context would be that assuming of course you were actually trying to make a counter argument.

The most logical conclusion would have been you were just trend signaling how "in the know" you are to deal with these fraud problems but it would be far more disrespectful to assume blind fanboism than assuming you were trying to make a counter argument. Plenty of likes to validate this conclusion.

I wasn't arguing anything, I find it far more productive to avoid arguing when trying to give someone advice. I always speak from "PERSONAL EXPERIENCE" when it comes to purchases and usage. I will never say "I heard, I think... I always speak from a position of "I did." Hence I said "I purchased because.....

Stop looking so deep into something as to argue everything.

Vaping has been on the fridge of societal acceptance for years. We operated without regulation since the beginning. True to concept of "supply and demand" it became a multi billion dollar industry.

Where do.people get help when something goes wrong? I don't know, because I was proactive in my buying decisions. Let alone if something does break and it's not covered by warranty, odds are I can fix it myself.
If I buy something from overseas, and it's broke, I'll fix it or take it as a loss.
Do you really think the us legal system is going to get involved over a 30$ mod? If they do, I would hope they have more important things to do with my tax money.

BAM crew

 

[JuicyLucy]

What was the point of bringing up spending $200 for a US made mod? Is it if someone doesn't spend the money to buy products from companies that the US legal system has jurisdiction over, they deserve to be victims of fraud?

Spending $200 on a US made mod demonstrates that US made products are generally more expensive than most Chinese imports but part of that includes the fact that you will deal with a US person who is familiar with US laws if needing to get service under a product warranty - Bird was not bragging, because $200 is on the cheaper side for a US made mod

Really, can you raise this kind of hell for a cheap Chinese-made toaster that is supposedly warranted but craps out after 30 days vs. a US made toaster that that costs so substantially more?

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Spending $200 on a US made mod demonstrates that US made products are generally more expensive than most Chinese imports but part of that includes the fact that you will deal with a US person who is familiar with US laws if needing to get service under a product warranty - Bird was not bragging, because $200 is on the cheaper side for a US made mod

Really, can you raise this kind of hell for a cheap Chinese-made toaster that is supposedly warranted but craps out after 30 days vs. a US made toaster that that costs so substantially more?

Haha!!
Remember when vaporshark put out the 200$ dna30 as an answer to the 300$+ Hanah dna30.
I jumped on the shark faster than than a lactose intolerant person runs out of an ice cream shop.




BAM crew

 

[Polargirl]

I wasn't arguing anything, I find it far more productive to avoid arguing when trying to give someone advice. I always speak from "PERSONAL EXPERIENCE" when it comes to purchases and usage. I will never say "I heard, I think... I always speak from a position of "I did." Hence I said "I purchased because.....

Stop looking so deep into something as to argue everything.

Vaping has been on the fridge of societal acceptance for years. We operated without regulation since the beginning. True to concept of "supply and demand" it became a multi billion dollar industry.

Where do.people get help when something goes wrong? I don't know, because I was proactive in my buying decisions. Let alone if something does break and it's not covered by warranty, odds are I can fix it myself.
If I buy something from overseas, and it's broke, I'll fix it or take it as a loss.
Do you really think the us legal system is going to get involved over a 30$ mod? If they do, I would hope they have more important things to do with my tax money.

BAM crew

The FDA already is trying to get itself involved in $30 mods and so much more with the power of the US courts behind them.

I'm not doing what I am doing just be be an argumentive bitch. The vaping industry is under attack and it is bad enough mainstream manufacturers are making the attack easier but so to are the people that rely on it.

Blaming and gaslighting victims is counterproductive. Most vapers are completely unaware of the hostile politics behind this. When most eventually find out about this with broken mod in hand, many will naively support the government. More so if they sought help from an internet community only to be gaslit.

Personal experience is what personal satisfaction is all about. By all means, buy what is most satisfying. It won't however help much if the FDA destroys the industry and the safer nicotine delivery systems most rely on.

 

[Polargirl]

Spending $200 on a US made mod demonstrates that US made products are generally more expensive than most Chinese imports but part of that includes the fact that you will deal with a US person who is familiar with US laws if needing to get service under a product warranty - Bird was not bragging, because $200 is on the cheaper side for a US made mod.

Really, can you raise this kind of hell for a cheap Chinese-made toaster that is supposedly warranted but craps out after 30 days vs. a US made toaster that that costs so substantially more?

A $30 "Made in China" toaster is sold by foreign companies that are registered businesses in the US hence legal jurisdiction over them.

I'm sure he wasn't bragging. That probably is nearly the minimum it takes to buy a mod from a company that the US legal system has jurisdiction over.

 

[SteveS45]

 

[Polargirl]

View attachment 96452

I have a DNA 250 mod on the way that is expected to be delivered on Monday according to USPS tracking. I'd say more but I am not going to bully an obviously ********, 55 y/o network engineer from Long Island that your profile claims you are.

 

[SteveS45]

Someone must have missed their meds................

 

[SteveS45]

 

[Polargirl]

Someone must have missed their meds................

Is that why you're back to meme posting?

View attachment 96461

Then why do you keep posting?

 

[SteveS45]

Why do you still see my posts didn't you say you ignored me? My post are not directed at anyone but you feel it must be targeted at you? Insecure at all? Butthurt? If you think you hurt my feelings you better get a bigger Louisville Slugger

 

[Polargirl]

Why do you still see my posts didn't you say you ignored me? My post are not directed at anyone but you feel it must be targeted at you? Insecure at all? Butthurt? If you think you hurt my feelings you better get a bigger Louisville Slugger

I said I never ignore anyone on any website.

No Steve. I am ironically grateful because if it weren't for you, that DNA 250 mod would not be on the way. I can't thank you enough.

 

[SteveS45]

 

[5150sick]

The FDA already is trying to get itself involved in $30 mods and so much more with the power of the US courts behind them.

I'm not doing what I am doing just be be an argumentive bitch. The vaping industry is under attack and it is bad enough mainstream manufacturers are making the attack easier but so to are the people that rely on it.

Blaming and gaslighting victims is counterproductive. Most vapers are completely unaware of the hostile politics behind this. When most eventually find out about this with broken mod in hand, many will naively support the government. More so if they sought help from an internet community only to be gaslit.

Personal experience is what personal satisfaction is all about. By all means, buy what is most satisfying. It won't however help much if the FDA destroys the industry and the safer nicotine delivery systems most rely on.

A few things missed by all this injecting politics into vaping (Which makes Zero sense since if anything we are under a pro vaping regime right now)

Anyone who released ANYTHING on the US market that wasn't already here before 08/08/2016 is fucking up the vaping industry for everybody.

Quick question.

Who HASN'T released a vape product after 08/08/2016?

EVERYBODY'S hands are dirty.

YOUR hands are dirty when you buy shit that came onto the market after Aug 2016

MY hands are dirty

Plus since deeming goes into effect in 2022 anything pre 08/2016 will be old and outdated.

Ever think about how much safer the stuff that comes out in 2022 will be?

Think about if right now the FDA took everything that wasn't on the market since November 2011 off the market.

The protank v1 wasn't even on the market then so no glass tank tank would exist. only plastic that cracks with certain eliquids.

No eliquid that was over 50% VG
No mods that fired over 15 watts or under 1 ohm.... (I don't even know if there were any mods with circuit boards or was it just ego's and CE4's? I started vaping in Aug. 2012 and the vamo was just coming out then)

Put it this way - Vaping would suck ass and you'd have to be hella fucking dedicated to quit smoking using 1st & early 2nd gen devices only
(my bio should shed some light on how dedicated I had to be. it was really a life or death decision) - http://vapingunderground.com/threads/5150sick.622/

Come 2022 if nothing changes (no pro vaping bills pass, no court cases get won by vaping advocates, etc...) the entire vaping industry will be right here on this forum.


People making mods, building RDA's in their machine shops, and making killer DIY juice.
Trading and selling to one another
Just like how it used to be before all the money grubbing companies got involved.
Just ex smokers helping smokers quit smoking.

The reason the Vaping Underground was created (besides for giving people banned from or tired of ECF's PC bullshit a place to go) was to be here to keep us able to get the products we need to not smoke even if vaping were to get fully banned in the United States.

VU's servers are in a country where the US has no jurisdiction. Do you think Joe made that decision by accident?


Fuck, maybe this will be a GOOD thing after all?


But think about big tobacco who are getting their PTMA's for heat not burn (IOQS / Heatsticks) products in order so they can force us back into their arms and back onto the governments Master Settlement Agreement and other tax schemes.

The government takes vaping away and push us right back into Big Tobacco's heat not burn arms (taxes). Nice Scam huh?

The problem with vaping is we aren't giving the government $5 a day in tax money any more. and there are MILLIONS of us!
Even if there is only one million vapers who no longer smoke in the US they are losing 5 MILLION a day and $1,825,000,000 BILLION DOLLARS a YEAR!!!

Trust me they really give a shit about that nearly TWO BILLION DOLLARS in free money a year that they are losing because we outsmarted them.

If you thought "Public Health" was about the health of the fucking public then your head has been buried in the sand for the last 2 decades

Shit waaaay back in the day: In 1976 the late Professor Michael Russell wrote: ‘People smoke for nicotine but they die from the tar’

Professor Michael Russell is known as the Grandfather of THR (Tobacco Harm Reduction) and there are still die hard ANTZ Professors that are willing to lie about this simple fact to get their college more funding so they can do the same old boring studies that have already been done 20 times over.


The moral of the story:
Smok making shitty products is THE LAST THING on FDA, CDC, Government, ANTZ, etc.... minds right now because getting back their TWO BILLION DOLLARS a year is THE ONLY THING they are thinking about.

 

[The Cromwell]

Just on the first page of ECR new posts right now.
3 different threads on dead Smok mods.

 

[Polargirl]

A few things missed by all this injecting politics into vaping (Which makes Zero sense since if anything we are under a pro vaping regime right now)

Anyone who released ANYTHING on the US market that wasn't already here before 08/08/2016 is fucking up the vaping industry for everybody.

Quick question.

Who HASN'T released a vape product after 08/08/2016?

EVERYBODY'S hands are dirty.

YOUR hands are dirty when you buy shit that came onto the market after Aug 2016

MY hands are dirty

Plus since deeming goes into effect in 2022 anything pre 08/2016 will be old and outdated.

Ever think about how much safer the stuff that comes out in 2022 will be?

Think about if right now the FDA took everything that wasn't on the market since November 2011 off the market.

The protank v1 wasn't even on the market then so no glass tank tank would exist. only plastic that cracks with certain eliquids.

No eliquid that was over 50% VG
No mods that fired over 15 watts or under 1 ohm.... (I don't even know if there were any mods with circuit boards or was it just ego's and CE4's? I started vaping in Aug. 2012 and the vamo was just coming out then)

Put it this way - Vaping would suck ass and you'd have to be hella fucking dedicated to quit smoking using 1st & early 2nd gen devices only
(my bio should shed some light on how dedicated I had to be. it was really a life or death decision) - http://vapingunderground.com/threads/5150sick.622/

Come 2022 if nothing changes (no pro vaping bills pass, no court cases get won by vaping advocates, etc...) the entire vaping industry will be right here on this forum.


People making mods, building RDA's in their machine shops, and making killer DIY juice.
Trading and selling to one another
Just like how it used to be before all the money grubbing companies got involved.
Just ex smokers helping smokers quit smoking.

The reason the Vaping Underground was created (besides for giving people banned from or tired of ECF's PC bullshit a place to go) was to be here to keep us able to get the products we need to not smoke even if vaping were to get fully banned in the United States.

VU's servers are in a country where the US has no jurisdiction. Do you think Joe made that decision by accident?


Fuck, maybe this will be a GOOD thing after all?


But think about big tobacco who are getting their PTMA's for heat not burn (IOQS / Heatsticks) products in order so they can force us back into their arms and back onto the governments Master Settlement Agreement and other tax schemes.

The government takes vaping away and push us right back into Big Tobacco's heat not burn arms (taxes). Nice Scam huh?

The problem with vaping is we aren't giving the government $5 a day in tax money any more. and there are MILLIONS of us!
Even if there is only one million vapers who no longer smoke in the US they are losing 5 MILLION a day and $1,825,000,000 TRILLION DOLLARS a YEAR!!!

Trust me they really give a shit about that nearly TWO TRILLION DOLLARS in free money a year that they are losing because we outsmarted them.

If you thought "Public Health" was about the heath of the fucking public then your head has been buried in the sand for the last 2 decades

Shit waaaay back in the day: In 1976 the late Professor Michael Russell wrote: ‘People smoke for nicotine but they die from the tar’

Professor Michael Russell is known as the Grandfather of THR (Tobacco Harm Reduction) and there are still die hard ANTZ Professors that are willing to lie about this simple fact to get their college more funding so they can do the same old boring studies that have already been done 20 times over.


The moral of the story:
Smok making shitty products is THE LAST THING on FDA, CDC, Government, ANTZ, etc.... minds right now because getting back their TWO TRILLION DOLLARS a year is THE ONLY THING they are thinking about.

Of course the government wants its money back and then some above all else.

Of course not just Smok but a few other major manufacturers making shoddy products isn't something the government actually cares about any more than they actually care about making tobacco or even h*roin less deadly but they do welcome the opportunity for an effective pretext that will divide and conquer the vaping population.

You stated that this forum is for ex-smokers helping ex-smokers. Defending companies that defraud ex-smokers and blaming their victims is contrary to that mission.

Don't get me wrong. I am so grateful that a forum like VU exists and even located its servers abroad to protect it. It isn't a shill operation like ECF is effectively being described as.

I doubt anyone here has any influence on the vaping industry. Even Phil Busardo's influence is limited to convince them that it is in their best interests to clean up their act anymore than anyone can keep the Trump Administration from shifting on vaping policy like it has so many others.

What it can do is stop the gas lightning, victim blaming, defense of vape fraudsters that will divide and conquer the vaping population. This may seem petty on a forum where regulars are product knowledge but it is quite damaging to do this to forum newbies that signed up only to seek help with their defective products. If I were in their position and was treated like that, I'd wrongfully assume VU was a shill operation like ECF and maybe naively welcome industry vaping regulations if I didn't know anything about the politics and history behind them.

In other words, a forum of vapers helping other vapers should be relatively more supportive of the defrauded vapor than their predators in this predatory conflict of interests.

 

[5150sick]

You mean Phil Bursardo who along with his old pal Dimitris sits on the board of S.E.V.I.A. USA?

http://www.seviausa.org/board/

Let's see who their members are:

http://www.seviausa.org/s-members/

Who's the fourth one in the list?

I think Phil and Dimitris have a little more influence over these Chinese companies then You think.

 

[The Cromwell]

Perhaps the market will regulate itself.
Shops will stop carrying Smok mods because if they are a good shop and take them back they lose their butts with no support from Smok?

 

[Polargirl]

You mean Phil Bursardo who along with his old pal Dimitris sits on the board of S.E.V.I.A. USA?

http://www.seviausa.org/board/

Let's see who their members are:

http://www.seviausa.org/s-members/

Who's the fourth one in the list?

I think Phil and Dimitris have a little more influence over these Chinese companies then You think.

Yup, that be the dude. Being aware of the fact that he was on that board was precisely why I used him as an example. Don't know why you assumed I didn't know.

Just because he is on the board doesn't mean he has influence over that specific issue. You are conflating access with influence. The companies pay him to fight regulations in the United States not to advise or bitch (as more likely to be perceived at them) if he did raise his voice on that issue.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Maybe you could join up with AVA or CASAA and help make some changes.

BAM crew

 

[Polargirl]

Perhaps the market will regulate itself.
Shops will stop carrying Smok mods because if they are a good shop and take them back they lose their butts with no support from Smok?

Perhaps but wishful thinking when bad companies are a vast majority of market share. If it we're just Smok, that might have happened.

 

[Polargirl]

Maybe you could join up with AVA or CASAA and help make some changes.

BAM crew

Activism may not be a bad idea when I am ready. Internal activism like protesting against SEVIA would seem like too much of an "in your face" provocative approach that should only be done as an option of last resort.

Trying to gain influence to cordially and congenially try to persuade them that it is in their best interests to clean up their act if they wish to strengthen their position in the fight against regulations would be a better initial approach.

I don't know if I am the person for that and I doubt I've made progress here to move the issue forward but I'll keep trying to look out for opportunities to do so.

 

[5150sick]

So now we're went from "some smok mods quit working" to "the majority of vaping manufacturers sell junk"?

What exactly is your agenda here?

I guess you don't know the part were evolv used their customers as beta testers when they first started out.

If you bought 10 DNA40 v1 boards you'd be very lucky if 7 of them worked right.

I think the DNA40 made it all the way up to v4 before they finally got it kind of right.
So they pretty much ripped us off to get to the top.
That was so 3 years ago though and the vaping industry easily forgets.

 

[5150sick]

You do understand that the deeming regs makes it so these company's can not legally make changes to an 08/08 compliant piece of vape gear right?

Even if the change is for safety reasons it's against the law per FDA deeming.

 

[5150sick]

http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2016/05/fda-regulations-present-imminent-threat.html

 

[Polargirl]

So now we're went from "some smok mods quit working" to "the majority of vaping manufacturers sell junk"?

What exactly is your agenda here?

I guess you don't know the part were evolv used their customers as beta testers when they first started out.

If you bought 10 DNA40 v1 boards you'd be very lucky if 7 of them worked right.

I think the DNA40 made it all the way up to v4 before they finally got it kind of right.
So they pretty much ripped us off to get to the top.
That was so 3 years ago though and the vaping industry easily forgets.

I don't have an agenda (political or economic). Evolv doing that doesn't make it any more right. I'm surprised a class action wasn't filed against them.

The only thing I am seeking is that a site that is supposed to be about vapers helping vapers actually help them in their struggles against bad companies rather than blame and gaslight them. The site cannot be on both sides of a fraud struggle.