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What entities/establighments are "EXCLUDED" from the FDA Deem Regs.

Discussion in 'FDA REGULATIONS DISCUSSION' started by Ms. Trixy, Sep 8, 2017.

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  1. Ms. Trixy

    Ms. Trixy Took The Road Less Traveled...got lost. VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 4 Years ECF Refugee Reddit Exile

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    I have downloaded all 499 pages of the FDA Deeming Regs. As it is quite a long document,:tldr:, I would like to know if ANYONE can answer this:

    I was at the American Legion this evening for dinner and bar bingo. A waitress came over and told my physician friend "that" was not allowed here". I kindly asked her if there was a sign specifically stating vaping is not allowed in the establishment? She said no but it wasn't allowed. I told her the Post has no reason to ask us to not vape.

    As we were leaving, the angry 2nd Commander came up to us, "The waitress has told you time and time again not to vape inside this private club." I commented to the Commander that "there are no state or city regulations against vaping in public". He threatened that he would ask us to leave if we didn't stop. I told him to check with the FDA as they (the Veterans American Legion Post" are NOT above government law". He said that it was since it is a private establishment. I again told him to check with the FDA and he refused.

    QUESTION: Are private establishment/clubs EXCLUDED from the regulations? I live in Arizona. There are NO State or City statutes or regulations on what vapers can or cannot do. I would like someone to show me in the Regs. where it states if exclusive, private clubs are exempt.

    I'm about ready to have all 499 pages printed, bound and delivered to the Commander of the Post.

    I'm really pissed bout this. Some sensible answers would be greatly appreciated. I would have sent this to Dimitri but would have to go through Busardo to do so.

    Thanks for your time.
    Trix
     
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  2. PuffOn

    PuffOn Bronze Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Private property....their rules.
    The FDA regs have nothing to do with it.
     
  3. bobnat

    bobnat VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    The FDA does not pass laws on where people can do things such as smoke. Those are state and city laws, I believe. Also, I'm pretty sure the American Legion is a private organization so they can determine their rules.

    Why would you want to antagonize people like that? You aren't helping the vaping cause with what you've done. Those people are just pissed off now and will now associate your negative behavior with vaping. How do you think they're going to react the next time someone tries to vape there?
     
  4. lordmage

    lordmage Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Gold Contributor ECF Refugee Member For 5 Years

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    first most states did pass laws by adding Vaping into the clean indoor air act by classifying Vape as a tobacco product which the FDA did do in there deeming as well. Second any place is able to Ask you not to Vape. you did try to ask if there was signage but that is not required in most cases. Personally just because there is no sign you can't don't assume that you can and if asked to stop by staff of any kind then stop.
     
  5. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    My house my rules.
    I do not have no smoking signs up here nor does any law ban smoking in my house.
    But I do have a no smoking inside rule which I also had when I was a smoker.
     
  6. BigNasty

    BigNasty Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years ECF Refugee

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    Private entity on private property.
    Their house their rules kind of thing, if they allow smoking but not vaping then I would bitch a bit in private with the commander.

    I mean you do not go into a Catholic church spouting L. Ron Hubbarb and the joys of scientology.
     
  7. Ms. Trixy

    Ms. Trixy Took The Road Less Traveled...got lost. VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 4 Years ECF Refugee Reddit Exile

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    You weren't there Bobnat. I was NOT antagonizing anyone. My behavior is my own business. I didn't ask for your preaching morality. Vaping Advocacy will not suffer because of a disagreement in a small and nearly empty venue. If someone else wants to vape indoors there, that's their business. In my OP I asking only for clarification. And yes I was angry when I wrote that.

    For the record, "I" was not vaping. My friend who is in a wheelchair was vaping indoors very discretely (MTL). I was defending her. There is always a time and place where I feel it is appropriate for me to vape DL. I don't have a cig-a-like. Even if I did, I am respectful in my manner of vaping as I said in my comments on another thread.

    @lordmage You make several valid points. Thank you.

    @BigNasty I agree with your funny analogy. You always crack me up.

    I received my answer. So this discussion is closed.
    @lordmage Please lock this thread.
     
  8. pulsevape

    pulsevape Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    nice visual....Tom Cruise losing his cool at Mass.
     
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  9. bobnat

    bobnat VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    You and BigNasty should do a podcast together...it'd be hilarious.
     
  10. pulsevape

    pulsevape Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    I keep waiting for Nasty to write the Great American Novel ....
     
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  11. hellcatrydr

    hellcatrydr Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    1. By definition, she was not vaping "very discreetly" or she wouldn't have gotten caught.

    2. I hope your "defending" her rule violation on someone else's private property was alcohol fueled.
    That's really your only plea here.:blowkiss:

    Annd C. The very core topic of the thread is your "behavior"... young lady. ;)
     
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  12. Ms. Trixy

    Ms. Trixy Took The Road Less Traveled...got lost. VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 4 Years ECF Refugee Reddit Exile

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    @hellcatrydr She was in a wheelchair. What kind of argument or defense would you have for this? The waitress caught her vaping when taking our order. I will not apologize for my actions. Period.
    :blowkiss:
     
  13. AndriaD

    AndriaD It's NOT freaking BUBONIC PLAGUE! VU Donator Diamond Contributor ECF Refugee Member For 5 Years

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    I'm confused... weren't you, just the other day, supporting the "if you can't smoke there, you shouldn't vape there" philosophy? I would have to disagree with that, for the simple fact that it's NOT smoking, and therefore shouldn't be treated like smoking. Lumping the two together is definitely an ANTZ tactic.

    On the other hand... I'm not sure that the increasing prevalence of this type of rule is *completely* about vaping; I think it has a LOT to do with the 10%... y'know, the 10% that can never be gotten rid of, who always fuck up shit for everyone, just beause they simply can't do ANYTHING without making an obnoxious pest of themselves and being proud to have done it.

    And you did say it was a dining facility, yes? A year or two ago, I might have been equally outraged at this treatment. But now, since I got my son into vaping and having been blasted with strongly-scented vapor while finishing my meal, I gotta say, it's not very pleasant to smells the sorts of things we commonly vape, while in the middle of a meal -- and my son is a tootle puffer, not as extremely mild a tootler as I am, but he's vaping 50/50 at about 20 watts, so the vapor really isn't huge... but it still has a scent, which can disagree profoundly with the smell of food. And if you mix several (or more) of those scents together in a closed room, at some easily-reached point you're going to have a foggy room (like vape shops?), which smells nothing at all like the food being served. It's tolerable in a vape shop, but in a restaurant? Not very appetizing, to say the least. There might be 20 tootle puffers there, who individually wouldn't bother anyone, but there's going to be a couple there (the 10%) who find it vastly entertaining to cloud up the entire room while laughing about it... plus the mild vapor of the 18 tootlers, all combined.

    I would *tend* to support the idea that a private club can make any rules it likes... but I bet they can't make the rule that smoking is permitted, because the big nanny gov't has pre-empted them... so I dunno how much the "private club makes its own rules" philosophy holds up. I do know, however, that I wouldn't care to sit in a foggy, many-scented room while eating, and I've been a vaper for 3 and a half yrs.

    Andria
     
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  14. hellcatrydr

    hellcatrydr Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Defense??? Huh???
    Don't rules apply to everybody? Are wheelchair bound folks immune from...RULES in your world?
    What exactly are you saying?

    Can we just cut to the chase... she got caught, she #%*@ed up... period.
    As HER friend and a friend to VAPING, your best move was to hush up and let her excuse herself...
     
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  15. SnapDragon NY

    SnapDragon NY VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years VU SWAT

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    Sorry Trixy, but save your paper and your time- !
    Your friend should have stopped when you were told it wasn't allowed there in the 1st place and apologized,because there was no signage, you didn't know better!
    Their establishment- Their rules!
    Most establishments have signage that states that they can refuse service to anyone-
    You’ve probably seen these signs at restaurants, bars and establishments: “We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.”
    They don't need a law to tell you "Vaping is not allowed here" it is Their rule and they told you!
    Sorry your vaping friend is in a wheelchair, but that doesn't give them a pass- you should have asked if vaping is allowed 1st before this escalated into the embarrassing situation it turned into!
    You would then have known that "Vaping is not allowed" and left to go to a place that would allow it, or refrained from vaping for your time there!
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
  16. SteveS45

    SteveS45 Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years ECF Refugee

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    Even though I do not agree with vaping considered the same as smoking the Laws in my State prohibit vaping in any area that is designated NO Smoking. You either do not vape or risk being reprimanded or fined.
     
  17. pulsevape

    pulsevape Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    If you get drunk in a resturaunt and start making a nusisance of yourself..the owners have the right to ask you to leave....they don't have to post a sign that says getting drunk and singing Billy Joel songs at the top of your voice is not permitted...It is up to the discretion of the owner what type of enviroment he wants to create for his customers,,,,and should be respected....you can go down three blocks and there is a bar where they don't have a problem with you acting the fool.
     
  18. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Being in a wheelchair does not make one exempt from most rules.


    And on that subject, I am finishing up building a wheelchair ramp for my wife.
     
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  19. Ms. Trixy

    Ms. Trixy Took The Road Less Traveled...got lost. VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 4 Years ECF Refugee Reddit Exile

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    Thank you for your input everyone.
    Have a nice Sunday and the week ahead.
     
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