Toaster Element Non-Coil Build

[puffanstuff]

I finally figured out a way to jig a flat element for an rda that seems to work. It has some interesting characteristics... High heat at low wattage and fairly high ohms. Massive vapor production. I'm not sure about taste... it seems to vary from draw to draw. It uses a ton of juice (see "massive vapor production").

[edit]: I've been using a juice that I made a while back I'm not convinced the toaster element is completely at fault for taste. My juice making skills are pretty weak.

I'd like some feedback if someone doesn't mind experimenting with it. Here's the lame video i made to explain the build:

 

[Rommel]

Thats new! I would imagine you get amazing battery life with that.

What gauge wire did you use? Tried watching your video but girlfriend is asleep so thats not happening.

 

[puffanstuff]

it's 26awg, I don't have anything else atm so building with higher gauge (higher resistance) would be were I would start...

 

[puffanstuff]

I'm going through the hateful process of uploading another set of videos using a longer element. I got it to 0.7 ohms but it really needs to be in the 1.2 ohm range to be sort of where I would like it. It just heats so much more liquid than a coil it has to be toned down some. I would love if someone could try this with something like 30awg and get it above an ohm.

And yes, the battery life is great. It's really nice to have such high production at such a low wattage.

 

[Rommel]

I got some 30g lying around, im going to give this a shot tomorrow. Maybe on my Magma.

 

[vaperature]

Very interested. Not sure I understood it all. Looking forward to seeing more about this

 

[puffanstuff]

I got some 30g lying around, im going to give this a shot tomorrow. Maybe on my Magma.

Thanks for being a sport and poking at it for me. Let me know how it flys on a magma. And use more than 5 bends... 7 at least. Thanks again.

 

[puffanstuff]

Very interested. Not sure I understood it all. Looking forward to seeing more about this

I got to be honest, I'm not sure I understand it. Part of the mystery is in surface area, part of it has to do with turning the heating element in the RDA from an active component (a coil, an inductor) to a passive component (a resistor).

Basically it's just a straight piece of kanthal bunched up so it will fit in the atomizer. A coil does this as well (and is more efficient at space saving) but coiling wire introduces some electrical characteristics that may not be desirable. My instinct (and it may be misguided) is that a resistor is a much better "heater" than a coil because it's not fiddling around with trying to make an electromagnetic field and impede current changes, that's what a coil does.

Anyway, it's an interesting build. When done right (which I probably haven't yet) it could look really cool.

 

[puffanstuff]

About to head to bed (already napped some), but here are the two new vids: basically me floundering around trying to get more resistance out of 26awg in this config. The next set will be a bit closer to a real build video.

 

[Rommel]

There. Tried and failed with the 30 gauge, so moved up a notch to 28g and there you go. These builds really need a regulated device, otherwise the performance is not very consistent. My one and only vv/vw is the Smok Sid and the ohms are too low for that, so i need to tinker with it some more.

 

[MrScaryZ]

Very cool but I do want to correct you you are not really using 7watts on that build if you are using IPV V2 which it appears you are actually using
4.2 v remember the IPV V2 has no bucking device it has no boost below approx 7watts and is using the voltage of the battery it is incapable of vaping at anything below 4.2v until the battery is drained so you pushing 4.2 volts at .5 ohms thats why you are getting alot of vaper if you want to check grab a mech if you have one and throw your build on there you will see ... IPV V2 can only go below 4.2 volts to 7watts as the battery dischardes so you are actually using using alot of watts and since we never let the battery get as low as 1.87 its the IPV V2 giving you false readingI wish your computations were correct but they are not... It is a cool idea though

fill in the values below to see what I am saying
http://www.steam-engine.org/ohm.asp

put in the vaules
Sadly this is the problem with the IPV V2 as well as the Sigelei 50w and 100w
It is not a boost and bucking device it is only boost when the battery drops below 4.2 volts

 

[MrScaryZ]

I finally figured out a way to jig a flat element for an rda that seems to work. It has some interesting characteristics... High heat at low wattage and fairly high ohms. Massive vapor production. I'm not sure about taste... it seems to vary from draw to draw. It uses a ton of juice (see "massive vapor production").

[edit]: I've been using a juice that I made a while back I'm not convinced the toaster element is completely at fault for taste. My juice making skills are pretty weak.

I'd like some feedback if someone doesn't mind experimenting with it. Here's the lame video i made to explain the build:

I wish you could show the coil a little more clearly in your shot maybe a pic would help I will make one tommorrow throw it on an RDA and show you what the real wattage you are using as I have a IPV V3 it is a boost and bucking device unlike my IPV v2 try on a mech as I said if you have one you will understand I love the idea though of the flat coil if for no other reason its cool

 

[CaFF]

Nice stuff there.

I believe that is like the Ophion coil. (also called the Toaster, Radiator, etc.)

More pics: http://iconosquare.com/tag/ophioncoil

 

[puffanstuff]

[QUOTE="MrScaryZ, post: 216790, member: 1164" IPV V2 has no bucking device it has no boost below approx 7watts and is using the voltage of the battery it is incapable of vaping at anything below 4.2v until the battery is drained [/QUOTE]

OK, I get the part that the V2 doesn't have buck regulation, but I'm not sure I understand the rest. I think the limit is at 4.2V (regardless of wattage, regulators usually regulate voltage even if they are controlling current or wattage) so I'm actually closer to the 35W range (for that unit). Drat the lying box mod, taken by cheap chinese tech again.

Sorry about the voltage reference in the video, it was corrected in the description.

So, not as cool as I thought, but at least I have a cheap way to make these now.

 

[puffanstuff]

I wish you could show the coil a little more clearly in your shot maybe a pic would help I will make one tommorrow throw it on an RDA and show you what the real wattage you are using as I have a IPV V3 it is a boost and bucking device unlike my IPV v2 try on a mech as I said if you have one you will understand I love the idea though of the flat coil if for no other reason its cool

Please do! I'm getting that there have been previous successes on this build and I'm just surprised it isn't seen more... there are a lot of neat (if a bit twitchy) things about this build and I'm enjoying the learning and the cool factor. A coil that isn't a coil just seems more fun to try to perfect.

Also, sorry about the poor coil porn skills. I'm not really set up to do closeup shots well and in general I'm a lousy communicator. Suggestions welcomed.

 

[puffanstuff]

Nice stuff there.

I believe that is like the Ophion coil. (also called the Toaster, Radiator, etc.)

More pics: http://iconosquare.com/tag/ophioncoil

I did a scan for things related to this coil but you pick up a lot of noise in search engines looking for kinda obscure things with unsure terms. I didn't see anything but at the same time I was positive I couldn't be the only one to figure out a way to make these.

 

[puffanstuff]

There. Tried and failed with the 30 gauge, so moved up a notch to 28g and there you go. These builds really need a regulated device, otherwise the performance is not very consistent. My one and only vv/vw is the Smok Sid and the ohms are too low for that, so i need to tinker with it some more.

Your's looks so much better than my fumbling first attempt (actually better than any of my attempts). I know especially the wicking is really touchy as it really has to have contact to the whole length of heating bends.

What resistance did you achieve? How did it vape for you? Do you like it or should it be shelved as a quirky curiosity?

 

[Rommel]

In a mech it was shit, to be honest ohms were 0.79, so it would not work on my regulated tube. Definetely worth looking into, im always curious with these new builds.

 

[MrScaryZ]

[QUOTE="MrScaryZ, post: 216790, member: 1164" IPV V2 has no bucking device it has no boost below approx 7watts and is using the voltage of the battery it is incapable of vaping at anything below 4.2v until the battery is drained

OK, I get the part that the V2 doesn't have buck regulation, but I'm not sure I understand the rest. I think the limit is at 4.2V (regardless of wattage, regulators usually regulate voltage even if they are controlling current or wattage) so I'm actually closer to the 35W range (for that unit). Drat the lying box mod, taken by cheap chinese tech again.

Sorry about the voltage reference in the video, it was corrected in the description.

So, not as cool as I thought, but at least I have a cheap way to make these now.[/QUOTE]
Yep you hit it around 35 watts hey man we all make mistakes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[puffanstuff]

In a mech it was shit, to be honest ohms were 0.79, so it would not work on my regulated tube. Definetely worth looking into, im always curious with these new builds.

Well I wish it provided a better experience, but I'm as interested to know how not to do things as how to do them. I'm beginning to believe that there is a reason we don't see these builds more.

 

[Rommel]

Perhaps. Im not giving up just yet, might be something really new here. After all, the Vapin Donuts were quite a big deal for a while and this is kind the same.

 

[puffanstuff]

Yeah I wish I could say nicer things about it but I'm doing a side by side with my aspire atlantis and it's just harsher. I really feel like it may have a place in cloud chasing due to the surface area and it may be better with other liquid flavors, but at best that makes an ophion a niche build. I would not recommend it for day-in/day-out vaping.

High cool factor - low performance.

 

[puffanstuff]

Perhaps. Im not giving up just yet, might be something really new here. After all, the Vapin Donuts were quite a big deal for a while and this is kind the same.

Well, don't let me discourage you, I'm all about some experimentation.

And honestly there are a few designs I want to try before putting it completely aside. I think even if it is a niche build, there is a lot you can learn from it and you can do some pretty cool looking things from the instagram images I looked at that CaFF linked. I'll probably categorize it as an "art" build.

I'm editing the final experimental part of my videos on the toaster, but I'm going to go find out how others have been making these after that.

 

[CaFF]

Ha, it seems familiar to me....

Vacuum tube grids.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube

Yes, I'm old....

 

[puffanstuff]

Ha, it seems familiar to me....

Vacuum tube grids.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube

Yes, I'm old....

LOL - this last element I created reminded me of a nixietube

 

[CaFF]

LOL - this last element I created reminded me of a nixietube

I love those...once made a clock out of them.

Hmmm..be fun for a readout on a coffee-table sized steampunk vape.....

 

[MrScaryZ]

Ha, it seems familiar to me....

Vacuum tube grids.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube

Yes, I'm old....

@CaFF you are good man I use tubes every single day My headphone amp has vintage Mullard tubes from 1962 all my guitar amps use tubes one has all vintage tubes ... There is no replacement for analog no matter what anyone thinks because we live in an analog world we hear with analog that is converted to our brains... No matter how good the equipment that a DAC tries to do It never can duplicate the essence the reality... Same way we cannot make digital people man you got me started on tubes I love my tubes there ya go what if I take a old tube and make a heating coil hmmmm Jesus they cost so much though

 

[CaFF]

@CaFF you are good man I use tubes every single day My headphone amp has vintage Mullard tubes from 1962 all my guitar amps use tubes one has all vintage tubes ... There is no replacement for analog no matter what anyone thinks because we live in an analog world we hear with analog that is converted to our brains... No matter how good the equipment that a DAC tries to do It never can duplicate the essence the reality... Same way we cannot make digital people man you got me started on tubes I love my tubes there ya go what if I take a old tube and make a heating coil hmmmm Jesus they cost so much though

Yeah, when I had electronics classes in H.S.way back in the 80s, they were just transitioning the class from the old stuff left over from the old school to ICs and such. So, we had a semester on vacuum tubes and relays and all that. =)

We had sooo much ancient gear around. We had no funding, so as exercises and for salvage, we took apart old TV's down to the boards...carefully.

Mr Gunning was happy to demonstrate the explosive, and potentially deadly, effects of messing with the power section and CRT Tube of a 1970's Zenith the wrong way....lol... He was old Navy and wanted his students to do shit the right way. Great teacher.

 

[MrScaryZ]

Yeah, when I had electronics classes in H.S.way back in the 80s, they were just transitioning the class from the old stuff left over from the old school to ICs and such. So, we had a semester on vacuum tubes and relays and all that. =)

We had sooo much ancient gear around. We had no funding, so as exercises and for salvage, we took apart old TV's down to the boards...carefully.

Mr Gunning was happy to demonstrate the explosive, and potentially deadly, effects of messing with the power section and CRT Tube of a 1970's Zenith the wrong way....lol... He was old Navy and wanted his students to do shit the right way. Great teacher.

But its not ancient man tubes are still used in many many applications because they can so some things better than an IC.. In fact some of the most sought after tubes are now being made again for this this very reason.... IC's are just a passing phase one of humanities bad days the whole idea behind computing is wrong you cannot create life based on on and off switching its impossible we know so little but some would think we are technological

 

[CaFF]

But its not ancient man tubes are still used in many many applications because they can so some things better than an IC.. In fact some of the most sought after tubes are now being made again for this this very reason.... IC's are just a passing phase one of humanities bad days the whole idea behind computing is wrong you cannot create life based on on and off switching its impossible we know so little but some would think we are technological

Hmm. I agree that Analog is superior in many ways, particularly in radio/audio applications. But, without circuit miniaturization and IC's we'd never gotten into space and you wouldn't be typing on a computer/smartphone/tablet/etc. Or, even be on an Internet.

What I want to know is, where is the organic circuitry and memory that was being developed in the 1990s ???

I remember WIRED had that in one of their first issues. (in print)

They've taught biological matter to function as a circuit, so where is it?
Stuck in the Wintel/DARPA and NSA gridlock of corporate greed 'prolly. Right next to the vaults of Tesla's future.

 

[puffanstuff]

The last two videos.... I'm just chucking them here for completion