most powerful 18650 battery help?

[Alec Carter]

Okay so I understand battery safety, ohm's law, and all that stuff. I'm having a hard time finding a battery that can match the sony vtc series. I saw a thread that talked about the vamped 18650 only supported 20 amps continuous, but 40 amps pulse. However, the manufacturer considers a pulse to be an average of 60 seconds. so my question is, would trying to get more than 20 amps produce a significant voltage drop? and if not, would it be safe to vape at 35 or 40 amps since a 60 second pull isn't even remotely realistic? Any powerful 18650 recommendations are welcomed, I was looking to run a dark horse with 22 guage gplat around .15 or .2 ohm's. however, I'd like very much to not blow my hand off, so any advice is welcomed and encouraged. Thanks!

 

[Oggy]

http://www.illumn.com/18650-sony-us18650vtc4-2100mah-high-discharge-flat-top.html

You can get the VTC4's here for $8 each. If you get 2 you get a free case. I ordered 4 for 35.97 shipped. It seems like all the other batteries besides the sony's are 20 amp continuous. I really wish I had bought more of the VTC5 when they were available.

 

[Zamazam]

Go with the MXJO 35 amp: http://www.imrbatteries.com/mxjo-imr-18650-2500mah-35a-3-7v-rechargeable-flat-top-battery/

 

[Alec Carter]

Go with the MXJO 35 amp: http://www.imrbatteries.com/mxjo-imr-18650-2500mah-35a-3-7v-rechargeable-flat-top-battery/

but aren't those 35A pulse?

 

[Alec Carter]

http://www.illumn.com/18650-sony-us18650vtc4-2100mah-high-discharge-flat-top.html

You can get the VTC4's here for $8 each. If you get 2 you get a free case. I ordered 4 for 35.97 shipped. It seems like all the other batteries besides the sony's are 20 amp continuous. I really wish I had bought more of the VTC5 when they were available.

But are they authentic vtc4's?

 

[Zamazam]

but aren't those 35A pulse?

I believe they are continuous, I'll look around and see if I can get a data sheet.

 

[Alec Carter]

I believe they are continuous, I'll look around and see if I can get a data sheet.

Thank you, I'll do some more digging myself as well. If they really are continuous, I would be happy. It's sickening to see all of these companies make false claims. They would make much larger profits if they actually made a legitimate product.

 

[Zamazam]

Thank you, I'll do some more digging myself as well. If they really are continuous, I would be happy. It's sickening to see all of these companies make false claims. They would make much larger profits if they actually made a legitimate product.

The core issue is that the majority of Lithium battery sales used to go to laptop manufactures and cordless power tool manufacturers. Now, most of the laptops and cordless tools use Lithium Polymer batteries. That leaves large quantities of lithium cells in the open market, for any one who owns an automatic cell shrink wrap machine, it's money waiting to be collected.

 

[Lefty]

Some vendors are listing the MXJO's as 20A/35A. 35A continuous may be coming soon from one of the big battery manufacturers but not as of now AFAIK.

 

[sickman22]

Go with the MXJO 35 amp: http://www.imrbatteries.com/mxjo-imr-18650-2500mah-35a-3-7v-rechargeable-flat-top-battery/

good call i have 2 mxjo 35 amp 2500mah and one full charged batt last 8 /10 hrs in my tanker all day

 

[efektt]

I am pretty sure the mxjo is an he2 rewrap... a 20 amp cell.

 

[sickman22]

I am pretty sure the mxjo is an he2 rewrap... a 20 amp cell.

http://www.empiremods.com/product_p/mxjo18650.htm

 

[efektt]

http://www.empiremods.com/product_p/mxjo18650.htm

?
Just like the efests, I think they are rewraps. I own a pair and a pair of he2, and they perform identical.

 

[sickman22]

?
Just like the efests, I think they are rewraps. I own a pair and a pair of he2, and they perform identical.

Efektt,Get to the bottom of this matter asap those of us that have the mxjo 2500 35a batteries boast superiority!...lol

 

[Giraut]

Some vendors are listing the MXJO's as 20A/35A. 35A continuous may be coming soon from one of the big battery manufacturers but not as of now AFAIK.

Not likely. The thing with batteries is, they're really a thin film with a cathode, an anode and chemical elements in-betwwen, rolled up into a tube. The higher the capacity, the larger the film's surface area, and the thinner it is to fit inside the 18650 canister once rolled up. And of course, the thinner it is, the more resistance it has, the more fragile it is, and the lower the current it can deliver.

Manufacturers can announce what they want, they can't go against the laws of physics...

 

[Lefty]

http://www.empiremods.com/product_p/mxjo18650.htm

http://picknpuff.com/product/mxjo-18650-2500mah-flat-top-35a-sony-vtc5-killer/

 

[Lefty]

Not likely. The thing with batteries is, they're really a thin film with a cathode, an anode and chemical elements in-betwwen, rolled up into a tube. The higher the capacity, the larger the film's surface area, and the thinner it is to fit inside the 18650 canister once rolled up. And of course, the thinner it is, the more resistance it has, the more fragile it is, and the lower the current it can deliver.

Manufacturers can announce what they want, they can't go against the laws of physics...

I would agree that it's not likely. Most of the batteries in use were designed several years ago. I just left open the possibility of advances in materials.

 

[Giraut]

http://picknpuff.com/product/mxjo-18650-2500mah-flat-top-35a-sony-vtc5-killer/

How is this a VTC5 killer? The VTC5 had more nominal capacity and a higher max continuous discharge current.

 

[Lefty]

How is this a VTC5 killer? The VTC5 had more nominal capacity and a higher max continuous discharge current.

I don't make the claim, they do. The relevant part is the specs for continuous discharge and the bit about them coming directly from the "manufacture".

 

[Giraut]

I would agree that it's not likely. Most of the batteries in use were designed several years ago. I just left open the possibility of advances in materials.

Yeah, it's always possible. However, the application that would benefit the most from advanced battery technologies is electric cars, and to my knowledge, those folks are still waiting for the Next Big Thing[tm]. What I'm saying is, if such a technology were to appear, everybody would have heard about it already.

It'll be interesting to see what Elon Musk and his huge-ass battery factory will come up with - assuming these batteries are even made available to us mere vapers some day...

 

[Lefty]

I agree that his huge battery factory will at least be interesting. Given the amount of skulduggery in business these days I don't know if an advance would be well known before it's ready to come to market or not.

 

[zaroba]

It's kind of a toss up as to what people consider the 'best'

On one side you have the 30amp continuous sony vtc4
On the other side is the 20amp continuous samsung 25r with a pulse of up to 100 amps (for 0.5 second, with a decreasing amp for longer time, like 45 amps for 5 seconds, if I'm understanding the data sheet correctly)

 

[Neunerball]

Just FYI, 35A PULSE http://www.mxjo.net/mxjo-imr-18650f-2500mah-35a-37v-flat-top-high-drain-battery-p-228.html

 

[Rayne]

Yes, the MXJO batteries are a 35 amp pulse. I've used them with .12 ohm coils plenty, and have never had an issue. Do I recommend that? Not necessarily; but that's my first-hand experience. From what I've seen, they're just re-wrapped HE2's, and perform identically (again, from my experience).

If you're running a .15 coil daily, recharge your batteries every day, rotate two batteries, and I'd say (IMHO) you should be safe with the MXJO cells for about 3-5 months before you start seeing enough battery degradation to risk any real problems. The easiest way to see if you're stressing your battery is to chain vape up to 5 solid rips, take out the battery on your last exhale, and check the temperature. If you're battery is just warm, you'll be fine; it it's getting hot (which is very noticeable), you're likely at the tipping point of venting... if it hasn't been venting gas already. This was also sanity checked by my buddy who was an electrical engineer, so I'm not just saying this without any real confirmation.

As my personal rule of thumb for sub .2 vaping, I run 4 batteries, keep them fully charged, and rotate them for about 4-6 months, while checking the battery temps at least once a day while chain vaping. Once I hit the point where the cells are either getting hot after 4 chains vapes, or the cells hit the 6 month mark, I'll either sell them to someone who will use them in a box mod, or dispose of them. It's a bit expensive, but that's my way of staying safe with such low resistance. And, because you're basically shorting your batteries with such low resistance, you're going to degrade the cells faster; which makes it more ideal to ditch them before you run into trouble.

My primary battery picks are purple Efan 40 amps, or purple Imren 40 amps. The Efans have identical specs to Vamped cells, and you can buy them at RTD Vapor, 2 for $10 (clearance price). Before I bought my Imrens, that was all I used; and I recommend having 2-4 on hand, depending on how often you vape. Purple Imrens are more ideal for daily vaping, and you can get away with having one less battery on hand. Both will handle the same builds, and you can get some nice performance from both. They're not the best cells on the market, but I think they can handle lower resistance builds better than the MXJO/HE2 batteries (again... from my experience).

Since pulse ratings typically are rated beyond 30 second pulses, you should be fine with any 35+ amp max/pulse discharge battery.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

Yes, the MXJO batteries are a 35 amp pulse. I've used them with .12 ohm coils plenty, and have never had an issue. Do I recommend that? Not necessarily; but that's my first-hand experience. From what I've seen, they're just re-wrapped HE2's, and perform identically (again, from my experience).

If you're running a .15 coil daily, recharge your batteries every day, rotate two batteries, and I'd say (IMHO) you should be safe with the MXJO cells for about 3-5 months before you start seeing enough battery degradation to risk any real problems. The easiest way to see if you're stressing your battery is to chain vape up to 5 solid rips, take out the battery on your last exhale, and check the temperature. If you're battery is just warm, you'll be fine; it it's getting hot (which is very noticeable), you're likely at the tipping point of venting... if it hasn't been venting gas already. This was also sanity checked by my buddy who was an electrical engineer, so I'm not just saying this without any real confirmation.

As my personal rule of thumb for sub .2 vaping, I run 4 batteries, keep them fully charged, and rotate them for about 4-6 months, while checking the battery temps at least once a day while chain vaping. Once I hit the point where the cells are either getting hot after 4 chains vapes, or the cells hit the 6 month mark, I'll either sell them to someone who will use them in a box mod, or dispose of them. It's a bit expensive, but that's my way of staying safe with such low resistance. And, because you're basically shorting your batteries with such low resistance, you're going to degrade the cells faster; which makes it more ideal to ditch them before you run into trouble.

My primary battery picks are purple Efan 40 amps, or purple Imren 40 amps. The Efans have identical specs to Vamped cells, and you can buy them at RTD Vapor, 2 for $10 (clearance price). Before I bought my Imrens, that was all I used; and I recommend having 2-4 on hand, depending on how often you vape. Purple Imrens are more ideal for daily vaping, and you can get away with having one less battery on hand. Both will handle the same builds, and you can get some nice performance from both. They're not the best cells on the market, but I think they can handle lower resistance builds better than the MXJO/HE2 batteries (again... from my experience).

Since pulse ratings typically are rated beyond 30 second pulses, you should be fine with any 35+ amp max/pulse discharge battery.

It sounds like you have a lot of experience with a lot of different batteries so I'm surprised to see nothing about the Samsung 25R or VTC4 in your comparison...those are the two batteries I consider to be the "best" depending on your wattage/resistance - have you tried those?

 

[Rayne]

It sounds like you have a lot of experience with a lot of different batteries so I'm surprised to see nothing about the Samsung 25R or VTC4 in your comparison...those are the two batteries I consider to be the "best" depending on your wattage/resistance - have you tried those?

I avoid the 25r, since the rated pulse discharge is below 35 amps. The VTC I borrowed from a buddy could have been either the VTC3, or maybe the VTC4, but I won't base an opinion on that one experience. According to some of the posts I've seen around, the VTC4 has a "continuous max discharge of 30 amps"... which I find hard to believe. There is a link, in another forum, to "specs for the VTC4," but I can't verify that it's the correct spec sheet, since I'm from the US, and can only read English lol. Here's the spec sheet I found- Supposed VTC4 Spec Sheet

Even if the actual spec sheets from Sony are correct, I wouldn't recommend going anything beyond what you can calculate with the C rating and continuous rating. Going beyond that is just pushing things, IMHO. So, for the VTC4, the calculated C rating is 14.28C. Multiply the mAh rating (2100mAh) by the calculated C rating, and the max pulse should be at 29.99 amps (aka 30 amps). Sure... you could push it to the rated max pulse, but, personally, I wouldn't do that. If I find the manufacturer's C rating for the batteries I'm currently using, I'll do the same calculations, and possibly reconsider my position on them. Until then, the rated max pulse output is a sane enough statement for me with my Efans and Imrens. 60 amps max pulse rating on a VTC4... it just doesn't sound right to me. That's a C rating of 28.57, which is pretty high from what I've seen listed on most batteries. I'll definitely have to talk to my buddy about this; he'll probably have some good info.

Again, this is all just what I go by. My position has evolved as I learned more, so it's always subject to change. As far as the VTC I used once: It seemed to hold its own against my MXJO, outside of battery life. Comparing it to my purple Efan? I used both that same night, and my Efan lasted longer, but stayed slightly warmer. It was nothing to the point that I'd say it was definitely battery chemistry, but mod temps (especially with a thin walled SMPL) will always make battery temps subjective. Now, that could have been either a VTC3 or VTC4... so take that with a grain of salt. If I get a VTC4 in my hands soon, I'll definitely pair it with my low resistance builds for some first hand testing.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

I avoid the 25r, since the rated pulse discharge is below 35 amps. The VTC I borrowed from a buddy could have been either the VTC3, or maybe the VTC4, but I won't base an opinion on that one experience. According to some of the posts I've seen around, the VTC4 has a "continuous max discharge of 30 amps"... which I find hard to believe. There is a link, in another forum, to "specs for the VTC4," but I can't verify that it's the correct spec sheet, since I'm from the US, and can only read English lol. Here's the spec sheet I found- Supposed VTC4 Spec Sheet

Even if the actual spec sheets from Sony are correct, I wouldn't recommend going anything beyond what you can calculate with the C rating and continuous rating. Going beyond that is just pushing things, IMHO. So, for the VTC4, the calculated C rating is 14.28C. Multiply the mAh rating (2100mAh) by the calculated C rating, and the max pulse should be at 29.99 amps (aka 30 amps). Sure... you could push it to the rated max pulse, but, personally, I wouldn't do that. If I find the manufacturer's C rating for the batteries I'm currently using, I'll do the same calculations, and possibly reconsider my position on them. Until then, the rated max pulse output is a sane enough statement for me with my Efans and Imrens. 60 amps max pulse rating on a VTC4... it just doesn't sound right to me. That's a C rating of 28.57, which is pretty high from what I've seen listed on most batteries. I'll definitely have to talk to my buddy about this; he'll probably have some good info.

Again, this is all just what I go by. My position has evolved as I learned more, so it's always subject to change. As far as the VTC I used once: It seemed to hold its own against my MXJO, outside of battery life. Comparing it to my purple Efan? I used both that same night, and my Efan lasted longer, but stayed slightly warmer. It was nothing to the point that I'd say it was definitely battery chemistry, but mod temps (especially with a thin walled SMPL) will always make battery temps subjective. Now, that could have been either a VTC3 or VTC4... so take that with a grain of salt. If I get a VTC4 in my hands soon, I'll definitely pair it with my low resistance builds for some first hand testing.

The Samsung 25R has a 100A pulse rating (<1 sec). The data sheet shows a 20A rating but this is definitely conservative, they released a presentation where they tested 25A continuous and it looks great (we've tested the same and it performs wonderfully). They don't explicitly rate longer pulses but obviously it would be somewhere between 25-100A depending on length, and our testing has shown these to be one of the best in the 30-40A pulse range.

As for Sony, the Sony rating you're talking about is the continuous rating, not pulse. The VTC4 pulse ratings I have on my spec sheets are as follows:
<80 sec: 40A
<40 sec: 50A
0 sec: 60A
<15 sec: 80A
<8 sec: 100A
sec: 150A

I highly doubt the pulse ratings you're talking about on the chinese cells are 60 second ratings, although it's possible. The two you're talking about are ones I haven't tested but based on data I've seen for the vamped cell it's far inferior to the 25R and VTC4. You have to understand the small Chinese companies push their ratings much more than any of the big manufacturers. Big manufacturers see it from a liability perspective and put a big margin into the number, whereas the Chinese vaping battery manufacturers see a higher number as a way to increase sales.

I strongly believe in only vaping to the continuous ratings to give some safety margin against malfunctions and bad batteries. But I understand some people are going to roll the dice by using the pulse ratings, so if you do this you should compare apples to apples.

 

[UncleRJ]

I have one of the Samsung 25R's and I will be ordering more of them.

Great battery at a great price over at Ligntning Vapes Use code "ohmsweetohm" for 17% off

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

I have one of the Samsung 25R's and I will be ordering more of them.

Great battery at a great price over at Ligntning Vapes Use code "ohmsweetohm" for 17% off

Just FYI if you buy from us, if you get 3 batteries or more we're actually cheaper. If you get 2 it's just a few cents more.

And you get a free case with every order...

 

[efektt]

Just FYI if you buy from us, if you get 3 batteries or more we're actually cheaper. If you get 2 it's just a few cents more.

And you get a free case with every order...

Do you have the 25r in stock? There is a note on the page about getting them on the 16th.

 

[Rayne]

The Samsung 25R has a 100A pulse rating (<1 sec). The data sheet shows a 20A rating but this is definitely conservative, they released a presentation where they tested 25A continuous and it looks great (we've tested the same and it performs wonderfully). They don't explicitly rate longer pulses but obviously it would be somewhere between 25-100A depending on length, and our testing has shown these to be one of the best in the 30-40A pulse range.

As for Sony, the Sony rating you're talking about is the continuous rating, not pulse. The VTC4 pulse ratings I have on my spec sheets are as follows:
<80 sec: 40A
<40 sec: 50A
0 sec: 60A
<15 sec: 80A
<8 sec: 100A
sec: 150A

I highly doubt the pulse ratings you're talking about on the chinese cells are 60 second ratings, although it's possible. The two you're talking about are ones I haven't tested but based on data I've seen for the vamped cell it's far inferior to the 25R and VTC4. You have to understand the small Chinese companies push their ratings much more than any of the big manufacturers. Big manufacturers see it from a liability perspective and put a big margin into the number, whereas the Chinese vaping battery manufacturers see a higher number as a way to increase sales.

I strongly believe in only vaping to the continuous ratings to give some safety margin against malfunctions and bad batteries. But I understand some people are going to roll the dice by using the pulse ratings, so if you do this you should compare apples to apples.

You know, if you want to do apples to apples comparison, I'd say throw the cells in a mechanical mod and see what happens. Obviously, a SMPL isn't the best choice for monitoring temps (my daily mod), but something that keeps the cells cooler by design is in order. I've said this about voltage drop, and I think it applies here as well... "You can look at the numbers only for so long, but the numbers don't tell you everything."

While you look at these spec sheets, and find the pulse rating that fits your application, I'll stick with a pulse rating that sticks within a reasonable limit with the C rating. And, realistically, I'm not even pushing my batteries to that limit... So, it isn't like I'm begging for danger. On the other hand (hahaha), I think picking apart a spec sheet to find the pulse rating that fits you best is a bit more of a sales pitch than anything else. It would be like my boss selling only one kind of battery because "It delivers a 100 amp pulse for the first second!" Its one thing to post test results like this, but another to just believe a spec sheet.

As far as the Chinese cells I buy? The pulse rating isn't exceeding a C rating of 20, the cells never heat up to a worrying level (the Sony cells I've pushed beyond rated pulse limits do this), and they're significantly better performers from my perspective. There is a reason I own 8 Efans, and 4 Imrens.

I've search around high and low, and can't find any hard evidence for why someone can claim these batteries are all hype. I want to see the real test results! Until then, I still think these cells have an edge, even if many think the ratings are fake. I am suspicious as well, but they haven't given me any reason to feel unsafe.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

Do you have the 25r in stock? There is a note on the page about getting them on the 16th.

Yes we have a few thousand right now. Thanks for the heads up, apparently someone forgot to fix that stock notice! It's fixed now.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

You know, if you want to do apples to apples comparison, I'd say throw the cells in a mechanical mod and see what happens. Obviously, a SMPL isn't the best choice for monitoring temps (my daily mod), but something that keeps the cells cooler by design is in order. I've said this about voltage drop, and I think it applies here as well... "You can look at the numbers only for so long, but the numbers don't tell you everything."

While you look at these spec sheets, and find the pulse rating that fits your application, I'll stick with a pulse rating that sticks within a reasonable limit with the C rating. And, realistically, I'm not even pushing my batteries to that limit... So, it isn't like I'm begging for danger. On the other hand (hahaha), I think picking apart a spec sheet to find the pulse rating that fits you best is a bit more of a sales pitch than anything else. It would be like my boss selling only one kind of battery because "It delivers a 100 amp pulse for the first second!" Its one thing to post test results like this, but another to just believe a spec sheet.

As far as the Chinese cells I buy? The pulse rating isn't exceeding a C rating of 20, the cells never heat up to a worrying level (the Sony cells I've pushed beyond rated pulse limits do this), and they're significantly better performers from my perspective. There is a reason I own 8 Efans, and 4 Imrens.

I've search around high and low, and can't find any hard evidence for why someone can claim these batteries are all hype. I want to see the real test results! Until then, I still think these cells have an edge, even if many think the ratings are fake. I am suspicious as well, but they haven't given me any reason to feel unsafe.

Fair enough. If you've tried them and found them inferior then that's understandable. I thought I had read your post as you hadn't tried the sony's or samsungs because of the specifications but I must have misunderstood. That's why I was focusing on the spec sheet - because it sounded like you were focusing on that.

Maybe I should get in some of those efans and imrens and see how they do.

 

[Rayne]

Fair enough. If you've tried them and found them inferior then that's understandable. I thought I had read your post as you hadn't tried the sony's or samsungs because of the specifications but I must have misunderstood. That's why I was focusing on the spec sheet - because it sounded like you were focusing on that.

Maybe I should get in some of those efans and imrens and see how they do.

Well, I'm focusing in the spec sheet in a more critical manner. When the battery could literally blow your hand off from improper use, I won't believe a spec sheet without proper testing, or a reasonable understanding of how such a thing is stable.

I'd love to see some real testing done with these batteries too, so I do suggest getting some in

 

[Donny B]

Okay so I understand battery safety, ohm's law, and all that stuff. I'm having a hard time finding a battery that can match the sony vtc series. I saw a thread that talked about the vamped 18650 only supported 20 amps continuous, but 40 amps pulse. However, the manufacturer considers a pulse to be an average of 60 seconds. so my question is, would trying to get more than 20 amps produce a significant voltage drop? and if not, would it be safe to vape at 35 or 40 amps since a 60 second pull isn't even remotely realistic? Any powerful 18650 recommendations are welcomed, I was looking to run a dark horse with 22 guage gplat around .15 or .2 ohm's. however, I'd like very much to not blow my hand off, so any advice is welcomed and encouraged. Thanks!

So the best battery available to the public right meow is the LG HE4. Hands down. Screw the MXJO, Efest, VTC 4 hype (which is not even a real battery, just a label from a company that USED to make batteries for Sony). Best battery for high power boxes and mechs...HE4...hands down. Check out the graphs. They do not lie!

 

[Rayne]

So the best battery available to the public right meow is the LG HE4. Hands down. Screw the MXJO, Efest, VTC 4 hype (which is not even a real battery, just a label from a company that USED to make batteries for Sony). Best battery for high power boxes and mechs...HE4...hands down. Check out the graphs. They do not lie!

Care to share these graphs? I'd like to see just how well the HE4 performs, as far as output (not your basic discharge testing, like from KP)

 

[Donny B]

 

[Robert B]

Care to share these graphs? I'd like to see just how well the HE4 performs, as far as output (not your basic discharge testing, like from KP)

The HE4 has the exact same specs as the HE2. LG made the HE4 specially for Bosch power tools to supposedly handle heat better. I vape between .3 & .5 ohms. Honestly can't tell the difference in discharge or charge rates of either HE2's, 4's, 25r's or VTC5's. (I bought the VTC5's almost a year ago, so they still might be fakes)

 

[Neunerball]

In case you haven't seen, Efest has a new battery IMR 2100 mAh continuous discharge rate 38A, max pulse 60A.

 

[Robert B]

In case you haven't seen, Efest has a new battery IMR 2100 mAh continuous discharge rate 38A, max pulse 60A.

I'd be leery of that claim since, as far as I know, efest doesn't manufacture batteries, rather wraps batteries made by someone else. With a total annual sales volume of under 1million US, I seriously doubt they have the capitol to build a manufacturing facility and staff it with engineers. The Xalt Energy battery plant in my town cost 600 million to build, but it's a good size facility manufacturing lithium batteries for various industries

 

[Number3124]

In case you haven't seen, Efest has a new battery IMR 2100 mAh continuous discharge rate 38A, max pulse 60A.

Which is either a Samsung, LG, Sanyo, or Panisonic battery wrapped in a pretty purple piece of plastic with blatant lies printed on it.

 

[Rayne]

The HE4 has the exact same specs as the HE2. LG made the HE4 specially for Bosch power tools to supposedly handle heat better. I vape between .3 & .5 ohms. Honestly can't tell the difference in discharge or charge rates of either HE2's, 4's, 25r's or VTC5's. (I bought the VTC5's almost a year ago, so they still might be fakes)

Well, outside of performance under very low resistance use, you likely won't notice the difference. Lately, I've been vaping around .2 ohms, but that's because of flavour builds. With my normal builds, I usually sit at .12-.15 ohms, and I can definitely tell the difference when I feel the batteries after a few chain vapes. With the resistance you run, you won't be pushing your batteries to the point of even noticing much of a difference, as you're only drawing between 8 and 14 amps.

 

[Donny B]

In case you haven't seen, Efest has a new battery IMR 2100 mAh continuous discharge rate 38A, max pulse 60A.

I have a guy and all he does is test batteries all day long. He is also chinese and works with the makers. I actually have 2 of those new IMREN (efest and IMREN are the same company) 38amp 60amp pulse batts and he said that they are the same thing as the previous gen of batts (he4, he2, 25r) only difference is what it says on the wrapping. The batts are still 20amp continuous. The best for regulated devices are the 25r and for unregulated the he4 and the only reason why the he4s are better than the he2 is because they handle heat much better. Crazy revelations here...He is sending me the ultimate battery for unregulated devices. The only problem is the capacity drops like 20% after only about 50 cycles..So he does not sell them. I will keep you all updated with latest info as soon as I find out more I have 2 of the best batteries for what we do and I will reveal them soon after some testing..(vape testing)

 

[Donny B]

Well, outside of performance under very low resistance use, you likely won't notice the difference. Lately, I've been vaping around .2 ohms, but that's because of flavour builds. With my normal builds, I usually sit at .12-.15 ohms, and I can definitely tell the difference when I feel the batteries after a few chain vapes. With the resistance you run, you won't be pushing your batteries to the point of even noticing much of a difference, as you're only drawing between 8 and 14 amps.

Right. It is really all about what you are using it for that dictates what battery you actually need and will work for your device/build...Hit the nail on the head there

 

[Rayne]

I have a guy and all he does is test batteries all day long. He is also chinese and works with the makers. I actually have 2 of those new IMREN (efest and IMREN are the same company) 38amp 60amp pulse batts and he said that they are the same thing as the previous gen of batts (he4, he2, 25r) only difference is what it says on the wrapping. The batts are still 20amp continuous. The best for regulated devices are the 25r and for unregulated the he4 and the only reason why the he4s are better than the he2 is because they handle heat much better.

There's a video on YT I found, where some guys who own a vape shop actually test their batteries in-house, and they say the purple Imren cells actually outperform other common cells on the market (ie: VTC, etc.). Now, if Imren is also a rewrap company, I'm curious as to why these guys made the claims. Also, they didn't show any performance specs, so I definitely can take their word for it; and I haven't even seen a real spec sheet on these (still trying to find one).

Does your buddy have any test results to show what is actually under the wrapper? Possibly even some tests on those Vamped cells, just because I've seen nothing but speculation on a lot of these proclaimed "rewraps", and I'd like to see what certain cells are actually capable of.

 

[Donny B]

There's a video on YT I found, where some guys who own a vape shop actually test their batteries in-house, and they say the purple Imren cells actually outperform other common cells on the market (ie: VTC, etc.). Now, if Imren is also a rewrap company, I'm curious as to why these guys made the claims. Also, they didn't show any performance specs, so I definitely can take their word for it; and I haven't even seen a real spec sheet on these (still trying to find one).

Does your buddy have any test results to show what is actually under the wrapper? Possibly even some tests on those Vamped cells, just because I've seen nothing but speculation on a lot of these proclaimed "rewraps", and I'd like to see what certain cells are actually capable of.

If you look at www.kidneypuncher.com you can see charts of tests of many different batteries.

Check out this video too

 

[madmonkey]

There's a video on YT I found, where some guys who own a vape shop actually test their batteries in-house, and they say the purple Imren cells actually outperform other common cells on the market (ie: VTC, etc.). Now, if Imren is also a rewrap company, I'm curious as to why these guys made the claims. Also, they didn't show any performance specs, so I definitely can take their word for it; and I haven't even seen a real spec sheet on these (still trying to find one).

Does your buddy have any test results to show what is actually under the wrapper? Possibly even some tests on those Vamped cells, just because I've seen nothing but speculation on a lot of these proclaimed "rewraps", and I'd like to see what certain cells are actually capable of.

Can you find it again and link it here please? It would be awesome if you could....I'd like to see that video...I am always searching for battery knowledge.

I'm sorry, use what you'd like but I am skeptical of any battery I cannot find a datasheet on, whether it "hits harder" or not. My favorite batteries aren't always the ones according to the spec sheets or user posted tests say are the best but I like having some sort of data reference to go with it. Especially if I am not sure if it's a rewrap and the quality is questionable and if the internal resistance will be anywhere close to concistant from cell to cell. I am glad that you have found a battery that works good for you but I will stick with my 20R's, 25R's, and as soon as I have the cash a new set of HE4's...if they handle heat better as the claim then they would be the ideal 20 amp continuous cell to push as the better they handle heat the less they stress the less change of raising the internal resistance and lowering performance I reckon.

 

[Slurp812]

I saw some interesting comparisons here...

HE2 looks really good..

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php

 

[Rayne]

Can you find it again and link it here please? It would be awesome if you could....I'd like to see that video...I am always searching for battery knowledge.

BANG, and the dirt is gone!

Here's my problem with these guys: they claim you can "safely" go down to a .02 on a 40 amp battery. Are you kidding me? While this might be true in certain situations, with particular known cells, it doesn't actually make any sense. The comment section for this video explains my scepticism pretty well.

I'm sorry, use what you'd like but I am skeptical of any battery I cannot find a datasheet on, whether it "hits harder" or not. My favorite batteries aren't always the ones according to the spec sheets or user posted tests say are the best but I like having some sort of data reference to go with it. Especially if I am not sure if it's a rewrap and the quality is questionable and if the internal resistance will be anywhere close to concistant from cell to cell. I am glad that you have found a battery that works good for you but I will stick with my 20R's, 25R's, and as soon as I have the cash a new set of HE4's...if they handle heat better as the claim then they would be the ideal 20 amp continuous cell to push as the better they handle heat the less they stress the less change of raising the internal resistance and lowering performance I reckon.

Yeah, battery performance is always going to be subjective; I just prefer actually trying batteries, before I listen to some random person on the internet. I understand that there are people who know what they're saying... BUT, that doesn't mean they're always correct. If they are, then I'll have first hand experience to prove them, and might be able to provide hard evidence that supports their claims, to literally show people who want proof down the line. I do this shit for science!

I saw some interesting comparisons here...

HE2 looks really good..

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php

Yeah... my problem with these kinds of comparisons is that they are based on longevity tests. I don't give a damn about that; I want to know the actual output maximums before the battery hits a specific cut-off temp, or how hot the battery gets under 40+ amp loads. Basic longevity pulse tests don't really tell us much outside of how fast you're going to need another battery, and how long you'll get a high power pulse before you see a real diminish in performance. That isn't really informative... unless there's some hidden message in there that nobody is explaining.

 

[Slurp812]

BANG, and the dirt is gone!

Here's my problem with these guys: they claim you can "safely" go down to a .02 on a 40 amp battery. Are you kidding me? While this might be true in certain situations, with particular known cells, it doesn't actually make any sense. The comment section for this video explains my scepticism pretty well.


Yeah, battery performance is always going to be subjective; I just prefer actually trying batteries, before I listen to some random person on the internet. I understand that there are people who know what they're saying... BUT, that doesn't mean they're always correct. If they are, then I'll have first hand experience to prove them, and might be able to provide hard evidence that supports their claims, to literally show people who want proof down the line. I do this shit for science!


Yeah... my problem with these kinds of comparisons is that they are based on longevity tests. I don't give a damn about that; I want to know the actual output maximums before the battery hits a specific cut-off temp, or how hot the battery gets under 40+ amp loads. Basic longevity pulse tests don't really tell us much outside of how fast you're going to need another battery, and how long you'll get a high power pulse before you see a real diminish in performance. That isn't really informative... unless there's some hidden message in there that nobody is explaining.

Yea, they don't say its safe for the battery under test.