Max VG in sub ohm tanks

[Terminalintel]

I run a kanger subtank with max VG. With a .5 coil on my sub ohm battery from aspire. I also run 100% VG in another sub tank, on my P3 but with a 1.2 coil. They both run max VG pretty well, but a few problems such as gunking up. This got me thinking, and I have yet to find any answers on this: 1. What watts/volts should you be vaping max VG juice? 2: obviously my sub tanks are running it very well, but SHOULD you run max VG in a sub ohm tank? And if so, what tanks run it well?

 

[Ravi Brounstein]

Well, I would say it depends on the VG.

Firstly, lets get away from 100% VG, it isn't a real thing. Much like alcohol there is no real 100% VG, it's always got water (or other contaminants). If you get to 100%VG you get a very strange temperature response. The best % for VG with regard to freezing and boiling is around 65% purity, and the boiling/freezing temps are actually on a curve. VG is weird stuff.

Then as soon as you add flavor, nic, herbs, caffeine, L-Theanine or CBD you further reduce the VG%.

Max VG, or 100% VG topoff would be better as a descriptor because of this.

Anyway, I don't get buildup from my VG in any large amounts.

I use a sub tank mini (0.5 Ohm) and a CF SubOhm Battery. I use max VG every time.

The VG I use is organic non-gmo water extracted soy based VG. It starts at 95% VG 5% H2O. The viscosity is only slightly above PG.

If your VG is thicker more like honey then yeah, I always got gunk buildup from that. Just the standard USP stuff from MFS or wherever.

I think this comes back to quality of the core components of your vape or the amount of suspended solids.

Are you using a dark colored e-liquid?

 

[Terminalintel]

I'll start using max VG more, as after I wrote this I did think about it, and "100% VG" doesn't make sense as you stated.

I have been using this juice

This is the first max VG liquid I've purchased but ran in my sub tanks. I have purchased other max VG juices that seemed to be a bit thinner, but not by much.

 

[Ravi Brounstein]

Yeah,

I can't tell from the juice in the picture but is it 100% clear or does it have a cloudy amber color? It looks a bit like one of our flavors that has honey in the mix.

I can direct you to a source for the VG I'm talking about and you can compare it to your viscosity (DIY?), it's the same place we use at our juice company and I know the person who does the testing for every batch that comes in to make sure there is no funkiness or dangerous stuff. They do GMP for the entire lineup of products.

 

[Terminalintel]

It has a slight amber color to it. But in my tanks it's almost clear.

 

[Ravi Brounstein]

It has a slight amber color to it. But in my tanks it's almost clear.

Interesting.

So pulling from their site they use: USP Grade vegetable glycerin. They use GMP which is good on them.

This is interesting to me.

So the VG that is commonly labeled as just USP Grade VG is made with a hexane extraction process. The one like is made with a water extraction process. The product that is made at the end seems to have different viscosities and different contaminants.

When you say gunking up, how bad is it? How often are you cleaning your equipment.

 

[Terminalintel]

I'm coils in my P3 are replaced every 2 weeks. And they are black. Like, black chucks come out, I cleaned my last one after 10 days and still got black chucks. This time I went a week, removed the tank, dry fired 5-6 times, then dripped on it while firing, and they cleaned up real nice.

My sub ohm tank, I'll have to report back to you on that one.

 

[Ravi Brounstein]

I've seen that before, not because of VG.

I get that when there are added sweeteners, including ethyl Maltitol and those hide in a clear e-liquid. Do you know if this one has spenda or other sweeteners?

Though I don't get dry fires since my juice is a little thinner.

 

[Ravi Brounstein]

I should mention I don't experience this even with the non-stop mega mix which has a lot of suspended solids from all the herbs.

 

[Terminalintel]

I do not. I was thinking of emailing the company and asking if they put any in though. My P3 dry fires so much, I'm getting this issue resolved as we speak though.

I was hoping to get an arctic tank and pair it with a SX m class, see how this juice holds up in that.

 

[Ravi Brounstein]

Yeah, let me know.

I'm curious to see if a different tank resolves it.

Out of curiosity what happens when you drip it? Same results?

 

[Woodsman]

VG does gunk up more than PG, but I still like max VG.

 

[zaroba]

Glycerin is a type of sugar, as such, VG will gunk up coils faster.
The sugars caramelize on the coils as you vape and result in the black build up as it carbonizes from the heat produced by the coils.


As for using it in a tank, it works fine. Just need to get the hang of it.
I used max VG liquid from MBV in my Nautilus (1.6-1.8 ohm) and in my Atlantis (0.5 ohm).
At first occasional dry hits happened, but then I got into the habit of occasionally blowing a bit of air down through the tip to make a bubble float up in the tank to keep the pressure in the tank a bit higher so it could wick the thick liquid better.

I really don't like the PG throat hit so when I bought liquid, I always went for the highest VG I could find and rarely bought from companies that had under 80%. Now that I DIY, the only PG in my liquid comes with the flavoring.

 

[Ravi Brounstein]

Glycerin is a type of sugar, as such, VG will gunk up coils faster. The sugars caramelize on the coils as you vape and result in the black build up as it carbonizes from the heat produced by the coils. As for using it in a tank, it works fine. Just need to get the hang of it. I used max VG liquid from MBV in my Nautilus (1.6-1.8 ohm) and in my Atlantis (0.5 ohm). At first occasional dry hits happened, but then I got into the habit of occasionally blowing a bit of air down through the tip to make a bubble float up in the tank to keep the pressure in the tank a bit higher so it could wick the thick liquid better. I really don't like the PG throat hit so when I bought liquid, I always went for the highest VG I could find and rarely bought from companies that had under 80%. Now that I DIY, the only PG in my liquid comes with the flavoring.

If you're DIY you should check out glycerine from mountain rose herbs.



I'm never going back to the old stuff.

 

[BigNasty]

Soy based vg is just fucking stupid.
Enjoy your shrunken nuts and man boobs.

 

[mark.holland.5283]

Ive been using max VG 99% THE Milkman on my dripper and tried it on a 0.5 subtank nano (which uses the same atties as the larger subs). Was good for.most of the tank then started to clog up and burn.

KILOS juices which are 70vg will kill the atomiser after about two tanks, so I mix in about a quarter tank any other 50/50 juice I have lying around (or now a pure.50/50 with no flavours added) and this seems.to work fine.

This is on a ego ONE battery as well.

I love these juices in my Praxis.dripper and just can't bring.myself to use anything else in my tanks!

 

[Ravi Brounstein]

Soy based vg is just fucking stupid.
Enjoy your shrunken nuts and man boobs.

That's funny.

There isn't any soy left. That's like people saying there is grain left in their alcohol.

Kinda basic chemistry.

 

[Ravi Brounstein]

Soy based vg is just fucking stupid.
Enjoy your shrunken nuts and man boobs.

Oh and btw, check your sources cause most USP VG does come from soy unless otherwise stated.


And the Palm based stuff usually contains too many impurities and cross contamination to pass regular lab tests.

 

[BigNasty]

That's funny.

There isn't any soy left. That's like people saying there is grain left in their alcohol.

Kinda basic chemistry.

Tough to get organic when the soy crops is so chemical laden. Rather limit my chemical intake than rely on someone's word it is organic.

USP palm and coconut based VG.

 

[Ravi Brounstein]

Yeah,

It's true you need to trust your source and that they use GMP, and do their own testing in house. They provide their COA and their manufacturer COA.

That's why I recommended that specific place, I know their standards.

In this case the product is organic and non-gmo.

There are certainly problems with Palm and Coconut as well.

Glycerine is just a funky product.

 

[Terminalintel]

Glycerin is a type of sugar, as such, VG will gunk up coils faster.
The sugars caramelize on the coils as you vape and result in the black build up as it carbonizes from the heat produced by the coils.


As for using it in a tank, it works fine. Just need to get the hang of it.
I used max VG liquid from MBV in my Nautilus (1.6-1.8 ohm) and in my Atlantis (0.5 ohm).
At first occasional dry hits happened, but then I got into the habit of occasionally blowing a bit of air down through the tip to make a bubble float up in the tank to keep the pressure in the tank a bit higher so it could wick the thick liquid better.

I really don't like the PG throat hit so when I bought liquid, I always went for the highest VG I could find and rarely bought from companies that had under 80%. Now that I DIY, the only PG in my liquid comes with the flavoring.

So I can run max VG in a natalist? Good to know, because my girlfriend uses one, and doesn't want to buy a subtank. VG anymore feels better to me. Feels smoother, more vape (which I like), and no throat hit (unless it's my morning vape, but I usually run lower watts in the morning and work my way up).

 

[Terminalintel]

Ive been using max VG 99% THE Milkman on my dripper and tried it on a 0.5 subtank nano (which uses the same atties as the larger subs). Was good for.most of the tank then started to clog up and burn.

KILOS juices which are 70vg will kill the atomiser after about two tanks, so I mix in about a quarter tank any other 50/50 juice I have lying around (or now a pure.50/50 with no flavours added) and this seems.to work fine.

This is on a ego ONE battery as well.

I love these juices in my Praxis.dripper and just can't bring.myself to use anything else in my tanks!

Tough to get organic when the soy crops is so chemical laden. Rather limit my chemical intake than rely on someone's word it is organic.

USP palm and coconut based VG.

Yeah,

It's true you need to trust your source and that they use GMP, and do their own testing in house. They provide their COA and their manufacturer COA.

That's why I recommended that specific place, I know their standards.

In this case the product is organic and non-gmo.

There are certainly problems with Palm and Coconut as well.

Glycerine is just a funky product.

Are you two saying the VG im running is soy based? I've just gotten into the habit of seeing exactly what chemicals are used it what juices I buy, though I'm not sure what chemicals I want/don't want.

 

[Terminalintel]

Yeah, let me know.

I'm curious to see if a different tank resolves it.

Out of curiosity what happens when you drip it? Same results?

I haven't tried dripping in my mech mod... Though I'm curious now... This is turning into a giant test! I did drip into the subtank on my provari as stated previously, and it cleaned up the coils and brought full flavor back. My subtank is still running full force with no dry hits or problems as of yet. I'll check the coils tonight and see what they look like.

 

[BigNasty]

Are you two saying the VG im running is soy based? I've just gotten into the habit of seeing exactly what chemicals are used it what juices I buy, though I'm not sure what chemicals I want/don't want.

Unless stated otherwise assume it is.
I have serious issues with soy outside of the estrogen effects it contains, so why I use palm or coconut based usp.

 

[Ravi Brounstein]

Are you two saying the VG im running is soy based? I've just gotten into the habit of seeing exactly what chemicals are used it what juices I buy, though I'm not sure what chemicals I want/don't want.

I could be soy based unless it explicitly lists otherwise.

then again, no way to know.

Ideally your vendor provides this information so you know what you are putting in your body

 

[Ravi Brounstein]

Unless stated otherwise assume it is.
I have serious issues with soy outside of the estrogen effects it contains, so why I use palm or coconut based usp.

While this is true at the food level, like soy proteins ...

I can't actually find any credible source that would show any estrogen like compounds left in soy based VG.

This would be in direct contradiction to my understanding of the processes to make glycerine and the final product.

Could you provide 2-3 credible sources?

 

[BigNasty]

While this is true at the food level, like soy proteins ...

I can't actually find any credible source that would show any estrogen like compounds left in soy based VG.

This would be in direct contradiction to my understanding of the processes to make glycerine and the final product.

Could you provide 2-3 credible sources?

I am in the ball park of soy is soy is soy. It does have a slightly different feel of the vg that is soy based.
Besides the reactions I get from soy and by products I avoid it at all costs. estrogen producing or not.

 

[Ravi Brounstein]

I am in the ball park of soy is soy is soy. It does have a slightly different feel of the vg that is soy based.
Besides the reactions I get from soy and by products I avoid it at all costs. estrogen producing or not.

Similar allergic reactions are often caused by palm and coconut for those who are allergic to some of the other byproducts of those compounds. For example if you are allergic to lauryl sulfate (other names too) in beauty products and shampoos then there is an extremely high risk of contaminants in the VG made with these same raw ingredients.

This isn't an issue of the VG process leaving the allergen, it's actually a cross contamination issue in the facility. THIS IS EXTREMELY COMMON

This is one of the reasons I came to this specific VG that I use.

Certainly if you experience problems from the VG with a soy base it could be from such impurities from cross contamination. However, it's a better safe than sorry thing. Most people would not experience the issues you do.

If you have no adverse reactions I can find ZERO indication that there are any soy or estrogen compounds left after the process. So in the end it's personal preference.

Knowing my experience with this specific VG I'll continue to recommend it and we'll continue it in our business

I would also say for those who have problem with VG, try a different source. It should be soothing and not irritate your mucus membranes.

 

[BigNasty]

Similar allergic reactions are often caused by palm and coconut for those who are allergic to some of the other byproducts of those compounds. For example if you are allergic to lauryl sulfate (other names too) in beauty products and shampoos then there is an extremely high risk of contaminants in the VG made with these same raw ingredients.

This isn't an issue of the VG process leaving the allergen, it's actually a cross contamination issue in the facility. THIS IS EXTREMELY COMMON

This is one of the reasons I came to this specific VG that I use.

Certainly if you experience problems from the VG with a soy base it could be from such impurities from cross contamination. However, it's a better safe than sorry thing. Most people would not experience the issues you do.

If you have no adverse reactions I can find ZERO indication that there are any soy or estrogen compounds left after the process. So in the end it's personal preference.

Knowing my experience with this specific VG I'll continue to recommend it and we'll continue it in our business

I would also say for those who have problem with VG, try a different source. It should be soothing and not irritate your mucus membranes.

Ya it should be sweetish and smooth.
Same goes for any allergen, why run the risk period.
So great example I was at work and went for a snack of some of those pea snaps cracker things, about 20 minutes later my boss walks by and blurts out "HOLY FUCK!! what is wrong with your face?". I was going into full bore anaphylactic shock.
Turns out in small print that was tough as sin to find it was made in a factory on equipment that did shellfish processing.
Also had a jackass assistant manager give me something with that faux crab shit in it. Clueless how they got crab flavor into shit fish. The cost factor is the by product and shells ground up in a slurry added to the fish.
Depending on ones sensitivity/allergy trace stuff can fuck them up something wild.

 

[Terminalintel]

Little up date:

both tanks were filled with max VG FA-Q juice yesterday. p3 the coil was not replaced, the sub ohm the coil was replaced.

P3: 1.2 ohm 15w 4.2v
Sub ohm: .5 ohm 32-34w

Obviously the liquid has a slight "honey" look to it, the P3, not being cleaned out, definitely has a dark amber look. Sub ohm has not had any problems today, the P3 I can't give a fair fight with because of problems I'm having such as dry fire and lower watts than I usually run.

The coil in the P3 is dark, but still produces good flavor, I did dry fire 5-6 times for 3-5 seconds yesterday then dripped 3 times while firing for 5 seconds. The sub ohm is still clean coils and cotton, no dry fires, plentiful vape, full flavor.

The Subtank V2 on the P3 has the O rings changed out and is having slight seeping issues but from the coil itself. The sub ohm with the subtank V1 has no leaks I've noticed today. I've also used the sub ohm all day today and left my P3 alone because of the error codes and other problems im having (which provape told me should NOT be happening).

Updates will follow at the end of the week.

 

[Terminalintel]

I also have not be able to contact FA-Q as of yet to find out. Exact chemicals and ingredients used to make their pink nova juice.

 

[Ravi Brounstein]

Little up date:

View attachment 22796 both tanks were filled with max VG FA-Q juice yesterday. p3 the coil was not replaced, the sub ohm the coil was replaced.

P3: 1.2 ohm 15w 4.2v
Sub ohm: .5 ohm 32-34w

Obviously the liquid has a slight "honey" look to it, the P3, not being cleaned out, definitely has a dark amber look. Sub ohm has not had any problems today, the P3 I can't give a fair fight with because of problems I'm having such as dry fire and lower watts than I usually run.

The coil in the P3 is dark, but still produces good flavor, I did dry fire 5-6 times for 3-5 seconds yesterday then dripped 3 times while firing for 5 seconds. The sub ohm is still clean coils and cotton, no dry fires, plentiful vape, full flavor.

The Subtank V2 on the P3 has the O rings changed out and is having slight seeping issues but from the coil itself. The sub ohm with the subtank V1 has no leaks I've noticed today. I've also used the sub ohm all day today and left my P3 alone because of the error codes and other problems im having (which provape told me should NOT be happening).

Updates will follow at the end of the week.

looking good

 

[Ravi Brounstein]

I also have not be able to contact FA-Q as of yet to find out. Exact chemicals and ingredients used to make their pink nova juice.

yeah,

Let me know the outcome.

 

[Woodsman]

So I can run max VG in a natalist? Good to know, because my girlfriend uses one, and doesn't want to buy a subtank. VG anymore feels better to me. Feels smoother, more vape (which I like), and no throat hit (unless it's my morning vape, but I usually run lower watts in the morning and work my way up).

Nautilus with BVC (Bottom Vertical Coils) is designed for closer to 50VG/50PG, but if it works with max VG, then it works. Dry hits will tell you it isn't.

 

[Ravi Brounstein]

I'll just come back to it, the VG I like seems to work in cartos decently... so it really depends on the mix and the VG.

If she is going to stick with that device you may just need to find the right juice. A high VG that is less viscous will dry hit less.

 

[Terminalintel]

I've got like 4 nautilus so I'll give it a try tonight and see what happens

 

[Woodsman]

I've got like 4 nautilus so I'll give it a try tonight and see what happens

I am able to vape Velvet Cloud 100%VG (VC has a secret formula of distilled water and VG) in my Smok GDC no problem at 2.0 ohms and 3.2 volts. The GDC coil is similar to the Nautilus coil...

 

[Terminalintel]

So we've really come to the conclusion, the right mixture of max VG can be vaped at most watts and ohm levels.

 

[zaroba]

Pretty much.

Bottom coil tanks work via using a vacuum inside to prevent liquid from dripping out constantly, like putting a cup in a sink full of water, turning it upside down, and lifting it out. The water stays in until air can get in to replace the water. This system works well enough for thinner low VG juices, but high VG juices are too thick to work this way. Instead you have to assist the air getting into the tank by blowing some into it via blowing down through the tip. Create pressure in the tank to force the liquid out instead of having a vacuum inside to prevent too much liquid from coming out. It does take a bit of time to get the hang of it though, too much pressure and it will flood, don't do it often enough or use too little pressure and dry hits will happen.

 

[Terminalintel]

So do by "blowing into" do you mean creating a vacuum with your mouth over the tip? Or just blowing into it.

 

[zaroba]

blowing air down into the tip.

 

[Terminalintel]

Hrmm.. I'll give it a try tonight and see what happens

 

[Terminalintel]

Provari is still acting up today, so I decided to switch over tanks. Still running the same coils in each, just have the V2 on my sub ohm, and V1 on the provari. Seeing if more air flow effects anything.

 

[Monkiboi420]

I’m using a .2 ohm coil baby beast tank aspire typhon 100 mod and I have a 90vg/10pg juice, what would be the highest wattage I could run?