Let's talk about flavor values in ounces.....

[freemind]

One thing I may have missed, is the value in flavorings.
I suppose it's cool and all, to have every flavor produced known to man. However, as a new DIY'er, VALUE is very important to me.

We can debate a flavor's merits, if it tastes good, and all that. And I think that should be talked about also, but really, once you get past that flavor is by each person's perception, then you are really left with one very important factor. Value....

So, what I'd like to talk about is value in this thread. Concentrations are important to the value of a flavor. Having just started DIY, I bought flavors that I think are generally accepted as "good" and from known flavor makers.

With the TFA flavors I have bought, I think they need to start at 10% flavor. Which in my mind makes me think those bottles I have purchased, won't go very far. What are the usual concentration starting points from flavor maker to flavor maker?

Certainly, NicVape seems expensive. But I know I gave about half for my TFA's then I would have NicVape. But if NicVape flavors truly start at say 4-5%, ounce for ounce, it makes NicVape a better value, would it not?

Everyone's input is appreciated.

 

[AmandaD]

I think in the end the difference in cost is outweighed by the difference in flavor. I use mainly Flavor Art, and I use most of those flavors at between 0.25%-3% in a mix. Considering the cost of DIY compared to smoking, whatever the cost of the flavorings comes out to it's a fraction of either smoking or purchasing ready made juice!

 

[freemind]

I think in the end the difference in cost is outweighed by the difference in flavor. I use mainly Flavor Art, and I use most of those flavors at between 0.25%-3% in a mix. Considering the cost of DIY compared to smoking, whatever the cost of the flavorings comes out to it's a fraction of either smoking or purchasing ready made juice!

While I agree to an extent about preferred flavors, for someone starting out, they are likely to use one or two flavors, not 4+. So I think the value per ounce is quite relevant.
And if I am not mistaken, FA is more concentrated then TFA, is it not?

I think anyone DIY'ing knows they are saving money. But constantly ordering to keep enough flavor around gets time consuming and an irritation.

 

[AmandaD]

While I agree to an extent about preferred flavors, for someone starting out, they are likely to use one or two flavors, not 4+. So I think the value per ounce is quite relevant.
And if I am not mistaken, FA is more concentrated then TFA, is it not?

I think anyone DIY'ing knows they are saving money. But constantly ordering to keep enough flavor around gets time consuming and an irritation.

Yes - and that was my point! Concentrated flavoring from any company will use less. But the true value in a flavor really lies in how much you like it. Take for instance Capella Vanilla custard: for many people there is nothing like it, custard notes and all. So even though it's often used at upwards of 10% nobody else has anything that can take its place.

 

[freemind]

I think you are missing my point. Moving PAST what flavoring your prefer and strictly talking about concentration as it related to the value of a flavoring.

I am interested in the value per ounce. It comes down to a "batch cost". Perhaps it is just me being "cheap" or my ways of being a man that owns a business. But I am looking for a guide of sorts, that shows me X ounces of this maker's flavor will generally be used at Y percentage.

 

[Edd]

http://vapingunderground.com/threads/starting-percents-for-20-manufacturers-flavors.2608/

Not sure if this is what you're after or not.
Personally if I was going to go on the cheap and didn't care what my juice tasted like I would vape unflavored

 

[RocketPuppy]

Is the value to a product if low cost is the only benefit? Have you ever purchased something because it was on sale, but no matter how discounted it was, you still didn't use it?

 

[freemind]

http://vapingunderground.com/threads/starting-percents-for-20-manufacturers-flavors.2608/

Not sure if this is what you're after or not.
Personally if I was going to go on the cheap and didn't care what my juice tasted like I would vape unflavored

Yes! This was what I was talking about! However, the list is pretty incomplete from what I can see. Some makers not listed, some flavors no data.

I am not concerned with being so CHEAP as to not care about flavor. However, cost per batch should be something everyone would want to know. That and how much a bottle of flavor will reasonably make.

 

[freemind]

There is no value to a product if low cost is the only benefit. Have you ever purchased something because it was on sale, but no matter how discounted it was, you still didn't use it?


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You missed the point as well.

Your "buy something on sale" has no merit with this thread. It isn't about any particular flavor. Any new DIY'er is going to buy flavors they have NO idea if they even like. Even those who have done this for a long time, take a gamble on a new flavor. So your point is very moot.

 

[RocketPuppy]

You missed the point as well.

Your "buy something on sale" has no merit with this thread. It isn't about any particular flavor. Any new DIY'er is going to buy flavors they have NO idea if they even like. Even those who have done this for a long time, take a gamble on a new flavor. So your point is very moot.

Your first post says that input is appreciated. Do you want input, or do you just want people to agree with you?

 

[Cramptholomew]

This overblown, over thought, thread means, "hey guys, which flavors are more concentrated than TFA?". To which *I* reply: FA, INW, some Hangsen, even some Caps. Smoky says NicVape are, but I'm not buying any to find out, because I don't feel like it. There's plenty of information on the "brand" threads that will give you an idea on value, and quality vs. quantity. Zen and the art of Vaporizer Maintenance.

 

[Ld3441]

However, cost per batch should be something everyone would want to know. That and how much a bottle of flavor will reasonably make.

I have no desire to know or take the time to figure it out.
Does not matter to me in the least.

I can see where some people would want to know but I don't agree with your statement.
I have tested LOTS of flavors and know what I like. (also have many I don't like)
I buy it when it runs low. Whatever the price it is a hell of a lot cheaper than cigarettes.

 

[Smoky Blue]

I did not say they are concentrated, but they do need a lower percentage than tfa

 

[Budds]

Problem with the value/cost equation for DIY eLiquid is it IS very taste based !
I'll use myself as an example :

I make/use more TFA RY4 Double than any other flavor concentrate..... I Like it, no one else makes it.... I gotta go with them, so Now its price shop that flavor. ( Of course I dont want to pay more than I have to, and there are a dozen outlets with their own prices.)
Now to whittle it down some more.... I look at Bulk Buys, But do I really need a gallon of the stuff sitting around getting nasty before I can use it ?,,,, nah.
So lets form a group buy and get a fifty gallon drum... divide it up.....
Aw ya know what..... It cost me a Buck to make 30 mls of finished juice..... I aint gonna sweat it !!!

But hey.....
I'm lazy, and math hurts my head.....
Usually Im so $ tight if I swallowed a silver dollar, I'd grind it to a dime...... but this time....

Good Luck on your Quest Tho !!!!!!

 

[RocketPuppy]

Problem with the value/cost equation for DIY eLiquid is it IS very taste based !
I'll use myself as an example :

I make/use more TFA RY4 Double than any other flavor concentrate..... I Like it, no one else makes it.... I gotta go with them, so Now its price shop that flavor. ( Of course I dont want to pay more than I have to, and there are a dozen outlets with their own prices.)
Now to whittle it down some more.... I look at Bulk Buys, But do I really need a gallon of the stuff sitting around getting nasty before I can use it ?,,,, nah.
So lets form a group buy and get a fifty gallon drum... divide it up.....
Aw ya know what..... It cost me a Buck to make 30 mls of finished juice..... I aint gonna sweat it !!!

But hey.....
I'm lazy, and math hurts my head.....
Usually Im so $ tight if I swallowed a silver dollar, I'd grind it to a dime...... but this time....

Good Luck on your Quest Tho !!!!!!

You probably know this, but you can sign up for a bulk account at TFA for free, and you don't need a wholesale card. You can buy anywhere from 4 oz to gigantic for a great price. 4 oz is $8.

 

[glassgrl]

Plus there are the VZ super concentrates and the Gourmet line...more expensive but very little is used. But even a $2 bottle of concentrate has no value to most of us DIYers if it tastes like shit.

 

[freemind]

Your first post says that input is appreciated. Do you want input, or do you just want people to agree with you?


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I would LIKE to discuss the concentration on flavors. Plenty of threads about preferred flavors.
I want to talk about the strength of concentrates.

 

[Budds]

You probably know this, but you can sign up for a bulk account at TFA for free, and you don't need a wholesale card. You can buy anywhere from 4 oz to gigantic for a great price. 4 oz is $8.


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I hear ya......
Was aware.... havent done it yet, tho I keep meaning to..... Did I mention the lazy thing ? Lol !
Besides... never know from where my next order is coming from... Im all over the map on purchases and try to combine for the shipping,

Anyways... Thanx.....

 

[RocketPuppy]

Here's your answer

FA, INW, some Hangsen, even some Caps.

I've never tried VZ, so I can't attest to their potency.

I use some of FA and INW at 2%. Seems like a value to me.

 

[VelvetA]

Certainly, NicVape seems expensive. But I know I gave about half for my TFA's then I would have NicVape. But if NicVape flavors truly start at say 4-5%, ounce for ounce, it makes NicVape a better value, would it not?.

Not really, since they're more than twice the price. And I don't think I've ever used more than 10% of any single flavor in a recipe - some do but I haven't.

However, if you were to evaluate an entire flavor line based on average % used and cost per ml of flavor concentrate, as a whole you would find FA and IW to be the most cost effective. There are exceptions of course: some TFA flavors are used very sparingly, i.e. brown sugar, pear, cappuccino. Same for LorAnn - not known for high potency but some flavors fall outside the norm, i.e. cream cheese icing.

I use Hotrods recipe calculator, which also calculates the cost of your mix, and the most expensive bottles I've made were comprised mainly of Caps and TFA flavors (1.75-2.10 per 30mL) whereas the bottles I've made of all FA and IW flavors usually come in under $1.00 for a 30mL (w/12-24mg nic). I've also found Silver Cloud Estates to be very, very cost effective - but with a larger outlay upfront (4oz bottles).

 

[Smoky Blue]

@freemind
.. nicvapes atm I am using them around the 1-3% rate.. red and green apple flavors.. about 4%
still tinkering on the rest of the flavors and hope i can start on a complete percentage chart soon for them..

i think all companies have something to offer.. what depends is what it means to you.. and how bad you want it..

does this help out a bit better?

 

[freemind]

Yes. This is exactly what I desire to chat about.

Some may not care about concentrations but I do. Not just from the economy in expense but also considering PG in a final product.

 

[Smoky Blue]

Yes. This is exactly what I desire to chat about.

Some may not care about concentrations but I do. Not just from the economy in expense but also considering PG in a final product.

Amen on that one, Freemind.. my throat is still trying to recover!