It's starting already.

[akuser47]

At work Friday an associate ask to try my device as they're interested in trying vaping again. So I handed my eVic mini to him. He hit it and said wow if I start again I want you to make my jiuce. That's 3 people now that like my sweetened green apple ejuice. I'm not sure I want to mix for other people I'm doing it for me. I told him I'd show him how to make it. I wasn't interested in making alot of juice. He acted like I was being rude. To me this is like a friend eating dinner with you then saying hey make me that steak 2 times a week. Anyone else stingy with their juice or am I the only D.I.Y. E-juice Scrooge here. LoL
He doesn't understand I make my own coils on my toptank mini with its rba plus head, .56 ohm micro coil. I told him this is not store bought. I tried to explain but he was upset. So not sure what to say anyone else have these issues.

Sent from my SM-T900 using Tapatalk

 

[The Cromwell]

I only make any juice for a couple of select friends...
And told them to tell anyone else that wanted some too bad, so sad.

 

[akuser47]

Yea these are work friends not the have a beer with friends. They smell it and want it.like bears to honey. I just didn't expect my juice to be this good already. I'm ready to put a huge flavor order in now to start doing some of nicotickets flavors like gravity he said he's going to post his recipes once the store is sold out. So I'll be getting those and trying to make my favorites.

Sent from my SM-T900 using Tapatalk

 

[BKTOAD]

I make juice for those I consider friends, those that would go out of their way for me. I will go out of my way for them.

Others, I will help them get started diy as you mentioned.

 

[freemind]

I don't make juice for other people. Period.

Getting caught would cost more than what you'll ever make. IF they want it that bad, make YOUR own.

 

[CJ-3]

Don't worry about it. You can't make everyone happy.
It's a nice compliment that he wants you to make juice for him, but if you're not interested in making juices for others then that's the end of it.
If your acquaintance from work can't or won't respect that, it's his problem.
Unfortunately some people were just born with a sense of entitlement and you're best to leave them in their own pissed off little world.

 

[BKTOAD]

I don't make juice for other people. Period.

Getting caught would cost more than what you'll ever make. IF they want it that bad, make YOUR own.

What would it cost you?

Would it cost you if you rolled them a cigarette by hand?

For profit, maybe. But for friends and not for profit, I think we are safe.

 

[freemind]

What would it cost you?

Would it cost you if you rolled them a cigarette by hand?

10+ thousand.

I can grow my own tobacco, shred it, roll it, and smoke it. I can't give it away UNLESS it is whole leaf. Once it is shredded, you HAVE to pay the ATF tax or you have commited a crime.

Same lines with juice.

Shops can't even legally give away samples anymore.

 

[CJ-3]

Shops can't even legally give away samples anymore.

Actually they can now.

 

[freemind]

Actually they can now.

So the FDA reversed all their rule now?

 

[CJ-3]

So the FDA reversed all their rule now?

Not all of their rules but:
Samples can be given with paid orders
No samples of custom flavor combinations (affects more mail order than B&M - like That One Vape which makes juice to order)
And I think samples can't have Nic in them but don't hold my feet to the fire on that one.

 

[BKTOAD]

10+ thousand.

I can grow my own tobacco, shred it, roll it, and smoke it. I can't give it away UNLESS it is whole leaf. Once it is shredded, you HAVE to pay the ATF tax or you have commited a crime.

Same lines with juice.

Shops can't even legally give away samples anymore.

So, when you smoked, you never once bummed out a cigarette? Or bummed one off a friend? Or gave a cigar to a friend for a special occasion?

 

[AndriaD]

I'd just give them the recipe. If they like it that much, they'll make their own. It's not your responsibility to make juice for anyone that asks. That's why I post the recipes I've developed -- I don't mind sharing, for those who are truly motivated, but I'm not Mrs. EjuiceMaker for anyone except myself... and maybe my son, if he asks. But I'd cook a meal for him, which I definitely wouldn't do for just ANYONE.

Andria

 

[freemind]

So, when you smoked, you never once bummed out a cigarette? Or bummed one off a friend? Or gave a cigar to a friend for a special occasion?

Yup. And the tax was paid. Therefor, it was legal to.

If you want to argue with someone, argue with the ATF and the FDA. I don't make rules and laws.

 

[BKTOAD]

Yup. And the tax was paid. Therefor, it was legal to.

If you want to argue with someone, argue with the ATF and the FDA. I don't make rules and laws.

The tax was paid with the purchase of my liquid nicotine. Much the same as your cigarette pack.

Not one single mention of liquid nicotine or even electronic cigarettes on the ATF site.

Not saying you are wrong. Just asking you to cite your sources.

Show me a link that backs up your claim. I was unable to find one.

 

[freemind]

The tax was paid with the purchase of my liquid nicotine. Much the same as your cigarette pack.

Not one single mention of liquid nicotine or even electronic cigarettes on the ATF site.

Not saying you are wrong. Just asking you to site your sources.

Show me a link that backs up your claim. I was unable to find one.

Well, then look up the tax code in your state. You need a license to sell cigarettes. Juice is considered the same in all states. You need a license to retail juice. Besides the tobacco license, you need insurance for manufacturing a product, and a business license.

So while you can't find the codes quickly enough to suit you, I'm not going to look it up for you either. I know what the law is. If you want to take the risk of illegally making juice for other people, I don't care, it's your business. If/when you get caught, you'll have to decide if it was all worth it.

Me, I don't make juice for other people. The reward for the risk isn't there. I have too much to lose.

 

[BKTOAD]

Well, then look up the tax code in your state. You need a license to sell cigarettes. Juice is considered the same in all states. You need a license to retail juice. Besides the tobacco license, you need insurance for manufacturing a product, and a business license.

So while you can't find the codes quickly enough to suit you, I'm not going to look it up for you either. I know what the law is. If you want to take the risk of illegally making juice for other people, I don't care, it's your business. If/when you get caught, you'll have to decide if it was all worth it.

Me, I don't make juice for other people. The reward for the risk isn't there. I have too much to lose.

So, is it illegal for me to make juice at all?

We are not talking retail here. No money is changing hands. Absolutely no different from me taking a pouch of tobacco, rolling a cigarette, and giving it to my friend. But it would probably be illegal to sell him that cigarette, I am sure.

You tell me you know the law, but have nothing to back it up with. And, if I am breaking a law that carries a fine of $10k as you claim, I would like to see some proof so I can protect myself legally. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Please make me less ignorant.

Show me the law. For my benefit. It would be a great help to me. And several others here, I am sure.

Certainly since you know the law, it would be easy for you to provide proof that it exists.

The only reward for me is keeping my friends alive longer since they are no longer smoking cigarettes. That type of reward must not be worthwhile to you. To each their own.

 

[JuicyLucy]

At work Friday an associate ask to try my device as they're interested in trying vaping again. So I handed my eVic mini to him. He hit it and said wow if I start again I want you to make my jiuce. That's 3 people now that like my sweetened green apple ejuice. I'm not sure I want to mix for other people I'm doing it for me. I told him I'd show him how to make it. I wasn't interested in making alot of juice. He acted like I was being rude. To me this is like a friend eating dinner with you then saying hey make me that steak 2 times a week. Anyone else stingy with their juice or am I the only D.I.Y. E-juice Scrooge here. LoL
He doesn't understand I make my own coils on my toptank mini with its rba plus head, .56 ohm micro coil. I told him this is not store bought. I tried to explain but he was upset. So not sure what to say anyone else have these issues.

Sent from my SM-T900 using Tapatalk

I agree with the folks who say give him the recipe and forget about it after that

 

[fratervapor]

So, is it illegal for me to make juice at all?
Show me the law. For my benefit. It would be a great help to me. And several others here, I am sure.

Put out a press release to the local press and the FDA about your intent to make and give away e-juice (0mg or otherwise) in front of the county courthouse at a given time. Follow through. We need a test case and, as you say, it's for your benefit.

 

[AndriaD]

You know... this goes right along with, just because someone expresses an interest in switching to vaping, doesn't make it a vaper's responsibility to set them up with a mod and whatnot -- you can advise them on where to get what they need, even write it down for them, but the responsibility to follow thru is theirs.

People only value what they strive for, and they value most what they actually PAY FOR. Anything free is automatically perceived as less valuable, and therefore they will be far less motivated to give it a real shot. One thing that kept me vaping at first, when I had all the usual new-vaper blues, was that I was already $40 invested in it, and I fucking HATE to waste money. Then when I had my relapse and went back to dual-use for a month, the sight of my hundreds of dollars worth of investment in vaping made me determined to dump the coffin nails again with all speed, and get back to vape-only.

Andria

 

[akuser47]

Agreed Andrea well said, even my close friends always want to borrow my mods n tanks. Guide not give sounds like the motto I'll use.

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk

 

[The Cromwell]

Not all of their rules but:
Samples can be given with paid orders
No samples of custom flavor combinations (affects more mail order than B&M - like That One Vape which makes juice to order)
And I think samples can't have Nic in them but don't hold my feet to the fire on that one.

Juice made to order is technically prohibited now as each new product requires an application.
The registration of all the SKU's was extended to June I think is the new date.

 

[freemind]

So, is it illegal for me to make juice at all?

We are not talking retail here. No money is changing hands. Absolutely no different from me taking a pouch of tobacco, rolling a cigarette, and giving it to my friend. But it would probably be illegal to sell him that cigarette, I am sure.

You tell me you know the law, but have nothing to back it up with. And, if I am breaking a law that carries a fine of $10k as you claim, I would like to see some proof so I can protect myself legally. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Please make me less ignorant.

Show me the law. For my benefit. It would be a great help to me. And several others here, I am sure.

Certainly since you know the law, it would be easy for you to provide proof that it exists.

The only reward for me is keeping my friends alive longer since they are no longer smoking cigarettes. That type of reward must not be worthwhile to you. To each their own.

Because you choose to be willfully blind to the laws, that's your problem. The FDA regs have been discussed on this forum extensively.

To the FDA regs: Have you registered your products (each individual juice flavor) or are you intending to do so, for each flavor you make for anyone other than yourself? The answer is NO, and I didn't even need to ask. THAT makes it illegal on the first front.

To the state: Do you have insurance to manufacture products/juice? Have proper insurance to cover you in case of liability issues? Have a business license? Have a tobacco retailers license? I know the answers are no to those too.

It doesn't matter IF you are just giving it away. Did you know, even if a retailer is just giving a "free" pack of smokes away, the tobacco tax is STILL required to be paid?

It's obvious from your constant hen pecking, you have never owned or ran a business, otherwise you would not keep asking the same questions. It's YOUR job to contact the state and get clarity to the laws. I don't know what state you live in, so I can't get a link for you. And besides, why should I? I am not your lawyer, nor do I give a rat's ass if you get caught and get in trouble. I simply stated why I don't make juice for other people and you wanted to turn this into a Spanish inquisition.....

 

[AndriaD]

Agreed Andrea well said, even my close friends always want to borrow my mods n tanks. Guide not give sounds like the motto I'll use.

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk

I wanted to like your post... but you spelled my name wrong!!!

Andria

 

[BKTOAD]

Because you choose to be willfully blind to the laws, that's your problem. The FDA regs have been discussed on this forum extensively.

To the FDA regs: Have you registered your products (each individual juice flavor) or are you intending to do so, for each flavor you make for anyone other than yourself? The answer is NO, and I didn't even need to ask. THAT makes it illegal on the first front.

To the state: Do you have insurance to manufacture products/juice? Have proper insurance to cover you in case of liability issues? Have a business license? Have a tobacco retailers license? I know the answers are no to those too.

It doesn't matter IF you are just giving it away. Did you know, even if a retailer is just giving a "free" pack of smokes away, the tobacco tax is STILL required to be paid?

It's obvious from your constant hen pecking, you have never owned or ran a business, otherwise you would not keep asking the same questions. It's YOUR job to contact the state and get clarity to the laws. I don't know what state you live in, so I can't get a link for you. And besides, why should I? I am not your lawyer, nor do I give a rat's ass if you get caught and get in trouble. I simply stated why I don't make juice for other people and you wanted to turn this into a Spanish inquisition.....

So, in essence, since you are making your own juice, you fall in this category as well.

These are all laws for businesses. I am not a business.

Your claim of a $10k fine was very specific. So specific that I thought maybe you knew something that I did not know. And would share that information. Instead, it was merely an arbitrary number you decided to pass off as factual information. Very helpful.

Since I am not a business, if I bought a pack of cigarettes and gave them to my friend, am I still a fugitive of the law?

If I gave my friend a beer, do I need a liquor license? No. Because I am not a business. I am not selling it. And, if I were a business, I would not need a liquor license to GIVE AWAY beer at a function. Only need it to sell beer.

 

[The Cromwell]

If you give ejuice to a minor you are violating the law same with alcoholic beverages.

And manufacturing something and giving it away is not the same as giving away something pre manufactured.

And some things are regulated under manufacturing. Making alcoholic beverage for instance.

 

[BKTOAD]

And manufacturing something and giving it away is not the same as giving away something pre manufactured.
.

Which comes full circle to my point about if I hand-rolled a cigarette for my friend and gave it to him. Manufacturing.

Not giving juice to minors. Not even a question.

My brother is a prominent home brewer. He has no special license. Yet can give his beer away for tasting at beer fests. Because he is not selling it. Because he is not a business. And these laws refer specifically to commerce.

 

[AndriaD]

If you give ejuice to a minor you are violating the law same with alcoholic beverages.

And sometimes the law is a total ass and NEEDS to be violated, because alcohol is actually dangerous, to ANYONE, but especially to an adolescent, while vaping is a great way for ANYONE to get off cigarettes... and yeah, some adolescents smoke, and want to stop.

Andria

 

[The Cromwell]

Which comes full circle to my point about if I hand-rolled a cigarette for my friend and gave it to him. Manufacturing.

Not giving juice to minors. Not even a question.

Technically under the law you would need to file as a tobacco manufacturer.

 

[BKTOAD]

Technically under the law you would need to file as a tobacco manufacturer.

Not saying you are wrong with this statement. I simply want to know for sure.

Would you happen to be able to show me this law that is being broken? (In a non-commercial setting in particular)

 

[The Cromwell]

Not saying you are wrong with this statement.

Would you happen to be able to show me this law that is being broken? (In a non-commercial setting in particular)

Nope not a lawyer and will NOT spend hours poking thru laws on the net.
YOU however may search to your hearts content.

I however do very well with laws 62 and never been cited, arrested or even a moving traffic violation.
I have gotten a few overtime parking tickets though.

 

[BKTOAD]

Nope not a lawyer and will NOT spend hours poking thru laws on the net.
YOU however may search to your hearts content.

I however do very well with laws 62 and never been cited, arrested or even a moving traffic violation.
I have gotten a few overtime parking tickets though.

If I claimed to know the law, I would be able to easily provide proof it existed. Yes, I did research laws pertaining to what we are talking about. And found nothing. Because they do not exist.

 

[The Cromwell]

If I claimed to know the law, I would be able to easily provide proof it existed. Yes, I did research laws pertaining to what we are talking about. And found nothing. Because they do not exist.

Spent years?
Under the new FDA regs if you take items such as Nicotine, PG/VG and flavoring and make a juice you ARE a tobacco manufacturer.

How this will play into DIY for personal consumption no one can say for absolutely certain yet.
But the regs are clear if you distribute it in any way.
And if you distribute it you MUST submit a PMTA application. And Are NOT allowed to distribute it until that application is approved if it was created after 8-8-2016.

I am pretty sure they use the word distribute which includes giving and selling.

 

[akuser47]

Sorry Andria Not intentional

 

[The Cromwell]

Sorry Andria Not intentional

Don't feel bad took me a while too. My baby sisters name is Andrea.

 

[Time]

Technically under the law you would need to file as a tobacco manufacturer.

Bullshit.

You only need to file as a manufacturer if you intend to sell.

It is not illegal to give away cigarrettes and it is not illegal to give away juice.

 

[Time]

Under the new FDA regs if you take items such as Nicotine, PG/VG and flavoring and make a juice you ARE a tobacco manufacturer.

Bullshit. You are only a manufacturer if you manufacture to sell.

 

[AndriaD]

Don't feel bad took me a while too. My baby sisters name is Andrea.

Yeah.. I asked my mom once why they spelled mine that way... she said "To be different." Gee thanks, mom.

But till the day she died, she still called me Jill, my middle name, which I abandoned in favor of my first name when I got out of rehab in 1986; Jill was a horse's ass, totally in thrall to drugs and alcohol and with a lifestyle to go along with it. I wanted to be a better person, but she never recognized that effort whatsoever. To her, I was still the same person... and there you have the essence of the many and varied problems I had with my mother.

Andria

 

[The Cromwell]

Bullshit.

You only need to file as a manufacturer if you intend to sell.

It is not illegal to give away cigarrettes and it is not illegal to give away juice.

It is illegal here in KY to give away cigarettes.
Around 30 years ago they passed a law prohibiting giving away cigs.
Prior to that the cig companies would give away little 5 packs of smokes. At booths at various events and such.

and on the manufacturer thing I think distribute is used. I do not think it is just limited to sell.
They prohibited free juice sampling didn't they?

 

[r055co]

At work Friday an associate ask to try my device as they're interested in trying vaping again. So I handed my eVic mini to him. He hit it and said wow if I start again I want you to make my jiuce. That's 3 people now that like my sweetened green apple ejuice. I'm not sure I want to mix for other people I'm doing it for me. I told him I'd show him how to make it. I wasn't interested in making alot of juice. He acted like I was being rude. To me this is like a friend eating dinner with you then saying hey make me that steak 2 times a week. Anyone else stingy with their juice or am I the only D.I.Y. E-juice Scrooge here. LoL
He doesn't understand I make my own coils on my toptank mini with its rba plus head, .56 ohm micro coil. I told him this is not store bought. I tried to explain but he was upset. So not sure what to say anyone else have these issues.

Sent from my SM-T900 using Tapatalk

Yep, it's the same way for me and coil building. I love spinning wire, wrapping coils, wicking, etc. and it's my little escape. I've got a supply of cheaper practice wire that when I get in the mood I'll just spend a day spinning up wire and wrapping coils. I then just give those coils out to friends and some others.

I've been approached a number of times from others that want me to build them some coils, I tell them $20 for a pair of coils and $30-$40 if I have to build and wick it or I'll teach them how to do it it's free.

I've only had 2 people actually pay, one for just coils the other for complete build but I've taught a number people how to build

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

 

[The Cromwell]

And a big bullshit right back at ya.
I just typed in google: laws prohibiting giving away free tobacco products.
This was the very first hit.
Yeah the formatting is screwed on the copy but I don't give a rats ass.
People who know it all and are too lazy to learn.
sheesh.
http://www.publichealthlawcenter.or.../tclc-guide-tobcouponregsandsampling-2011.pdf


With the passage of the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act of
2009 (the “FDA law”),
4
the federal government took significant steps to restrict
these types of price discount
ing
activities


.
Some of the law’s provisions include:
prohibiting the sale of tobacco products through mail
-
order coupon redemption;
disallowing
giveaways of non
-
toba
cco products with the purchase of a tobacco
product; prohibiting free
samples of cigarettes; and barr
ing samples of smokeless
tobacco products in certain settings. Moreover, the FDA law explicitly preserves the
right of state and local governments to furt
her restrict the sale and dis
tribution of
tobacco products.
This provision
is important because it
enables
communities to
tailor tobacco control policies to meet local needs, and to close loopholes remaining

 

[Time]

It is illegal here in KY to give away cigarettes.
Around 30 years ago they passed a law prohibiting giving away cigs.
Prior to that the cig companies would give away little 5 packs of smokes. At booths at various events and such.

and on the manufacturer thing I think distribute is used. I do not think it is just limited to sell.
They prohibited free juice sampling didn't they?

Retail shops and manufacturers are prohibited from giving away promotional tobacco. It does not apply to individuals.

The FDA regs, and I've read them in entirety, distinctly define manufacturing and retail, that is to say, those that are required to file as such.

 

[The Cromwell]

Retail shops and manufacturers are prohibited from giving away promotional tobacco. It does not apply to individuals.

The FDA regs, and I've read them in entirety, distinctly define manufacturing and retail, that is to say, those that are required to file as such.

Moreover, the FDA law explicitly preserves the
right of state and local governments to further restrict the sale and distribution of tobacco products.

 

[Time]

And a big bullshit right back at ya.
I just typed in google: laws prohibiting giving away free tobacco products.
This was the very first hit.
Yeah the formatting is screwed on the copy but I don't give a rats ass.
People who know it all and are too lazy to learn.
sheesh.
http://www.publichealthlawcenter.or.../tclc-guide-tobcouponregsandsampling-2011.pdf


With the passage of the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act of
2009 (the “FDA law”),
4
the federal government took significant steps to restrict
these types of price discount
ing
activities


.
Some of the law’s provisions include:
prohibiting the sale of tobacco products through mail
-
order coupon redemption;
disallowing
giveaways of non
-
toba
cco products with the purchase of a tobacco
product; prohibiting free
samples of cigarettes; and barr
ing samples of smokeless
tobacco products in certain settings. Moreover, the FDA law explicitly preserves the
right of state and local governments to furt
her restrict the sale and dis
tribution of
tobacco products.
This provision
is important because it
enables
communities to
tailor tobacco control policies to meet local needs, and to close loopholes remaining

LOL. Those provisions pertain to manufacturers and retail sales. Not individuals.

Since you have time to find regulation that doesn't pertain to an individual that makes juice for themselves and happens to give some to friends, maybe you'll have time to find regulation that does.

A plumber is required to be licensed in this state to work on my plumbing. But I don't have to be licenced to work on my own fucking plumbing, nor do I have to be licenced to work on my friends plumbing for free. Applying your logic, every fucking homeowner needs a licence. It doesn't work that way, lol.

 

[The Cromwell]

not do I have to be licenced to work on my friends plumbing for free.

Ohh yes you do.
he just has to lie and say that he did it.
And most areas require that you get a plumbing permit which says the owner or a licensed professional did the work.

And if the home being repaired has a mortgage on it you might want to read the fine print.

 

[Time]

Moreover, the FDA law explicitly preserves the
right of state and local governments to further restrict the sale and distribution of tobacco products.

Yep, from manufacturers and retail. There is no mention of personal use juice be given away.

 

[r055co]

Retail shops and manufacturers are prohibited from giving away promotional tobacco. It does not apply to individuals.

The FDA regs, and I've read them in entirety, distinctly define manufacturing and retail, that is to say, those that are required to file as such.

Yep, I myself carve out time just to hang out at a really good Vape Shop for the sole purpose to teach and assist newbies on how to build, wick, etc. I usually have a portable build kit with me for this sole purpose.

Retailers are bound by the regulations, I'm not. Also the asshole in me is really, really wanting an FDA or State Government FDA Whore to show up and say something ya know.

Moreover, the FDA law explicitly preserves the
right of state and local governments to further restrict the sale and distribution of tobacco products.

Yes they can and you can pretty much bank on the fact that they will

 

[Time]

Ohh yes you do.
he just has to lie as say that he did it.

Oh no I don't. This ain't kunttucky.

 

[Time]

Yep, I myself carve out time just to hang out at a really good Vape Shop for the sole purpose to teach and assist newbies on how to build, wick, etc. I usually have a portable build kit with me for this sole purpose.
Retailers are bound by the regulations, I'm not. Also the asshole in me is really, really wanting an FDA or State Government FDA Whore to show up and say something ya know.

Exactly.

 

[r055co]

Exactly.

To further expand, currently that is the way the law is in my State.

"But" that could easily change