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Intense flavor from high VG

luciddreamer

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I am looking for the smoothest vape possible, and also found out that PG tastes nasty! I plan on mixing my juices without any additional PG added besides nic and flavoring. That means 70%+ Vg in the final mix. Is there any way to get the same flavor intensity as a 50/50 mix? I've heard things about distilled water/saline, can anyone guide me on how much to add?

Off topic: has anyone used TPA's sour? Does it gunk up coils like tart and sour does?
 

Bryon

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Should not change flavor intensity. Personally I don't find that high PG vs high VG has no difference in flavor strength.
 

HeadInClouds

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Are you looking for flavor intensity - or throat hit? I vape max-VG, used to use about 75/25 PG/VG. I didn't have to change any recipes as I used increasingly high VG.

However, it's definitely less throat hit without PG. I've come to appreciate it, but if you're looking for more, I'm sure you'll get some suggestions.

TPA sour is IMO more concentrated than Lorann Tart 'n Sour, so at least you can use less. Neither one really gives me a sour effect, but some people find them effective.
 

luciddreamer

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Wow! Thank you both for the quick reply. I am looking for flavor intensity, plus a smooth vape if possible, since I am a chain vaper. I only vape using drippers running at about .5ohms on a mechanical mod. My DIY 4mg seems to have a bit more th than some vendors 6mg. Headinclouds, do you dilute your vg at all? What brand of VG are you using?
 

Alan Woltemath

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i use wizard labs vg along with their 100mg nicotine in 100%vg solution and it is very smooth
 

HeadInClouds

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Headinclouds, do you dilute your vg at all? What brand of VG are you using?

I add 10% water. If my tap water weren't so crystal-clean (I know, I'm lucky), I'd use distilled water.

I've tried VG from Wizard Labs and BullCityVapor. I can't say I really notice much difference between them.

However - switching from Wizard Lab's VG nic (100mg) to Vapers Tek VG nic (also 100mg) made an enormous difference. It's much smoother, no nose-sting, very very clean. I vaped 18-24mg/ml until I got VT nic.... down to 12-15 now, probably because stuff tastes so much better that I'm constantly vaping.
 

luciddreamer

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I add 10% water. If my tap water weren't so crystal-clean (I know, I'm lucky), I'd use distilled water.

I've tried VG from Wizard Labs and BullCityVapor. I can't say I really notice much difference between them.

However - switching from Wizard Lab's VG nic (100mg) to Vapers Tek VG nic (also 100mg) made an enormous difference. It's much smoother, no nose-sting, very very clean. I vaped 18-24mg/ml until I got VT nic.... down to 12-15 now, probably because stuff tastes so much better that I'm constantly vaping.

Maybe I should switch to VG nic for a smoother vape. I do notice less peppery sensation as well. Do you add 10% water to the final mix? Or dilute your VG with 10% water and use that as "VG" in your mix. I have heard that water can add th? Hopefully this is not true, but what is your experience?
 

Cessnapix

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I have been using 5% (DW) didtilled water for about a year. For my taste 5% is just right. From some other DIYers that I have talked to that started adding DW after they used Inawera Brand bases. Inawera adds 10% DW to most if not all of there nicotine bases. You can look on the website of the uk distributors and see the percentages. My point is that after trying these bases and liking them, "reporting a smotther Vape." They didn't want to import there nicotines from Poland, just flavorings, so they mix there own bases according to there guidlines, which is 10% DW.

I have not noticed a big difference in taste and add the distilled water for mainly a chemical reaction/bonding reason. I had worked with some people much smarter than I and was told that DW and or DI water is esential in many simple chemical compounds. Most labs have an expensive Deionized (DI) and DW system plumbed into each lab. The unwanted ions and elements in tap water can interfere with the binding of other molecules in the mix. I am by no means a chemical engineer and come from a mecanical background so lets make that clear!

I had also read under some other forums of people doing the same; manily in the range of 5%-10%. You will several online calculators also have a place to add for either Distilled Water or alcohol. Many think this is just to save an nicotine and; "water the mix down". However that is not the case. At least in my case and others I know.

The only way for you to tell if it is right for you is to try a small sample bottle. Last time this discussion came up ther where a couple of people that converted to adding DW. You should be adding distilled water not tap water. Distilled bottle water can be bought by the gallon at less than a buck at most grocery stores.

Hope this helps
 

HeadInClouds

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Maybe I should switch to VG nic for a smoother vape. I do notice less peppery sensation as well. Do you add 10% water to the final mix? Or dilute your VG with 10% water and use that as "VG" in your mix. I have heard that water can add th? Hopefully this is not true, but what is your experience?

VG nic versus PG nic will make a very minor difference. Adding VG versus PG to for your base makes more of a difference. Switching to Vapers Tek nic is more dramatic yet.

No, I do not get throat hit from adding water.

10% of my final (unflavored) nic base is water. I mix 120ml bottles: 12ml water, 20ml of Vapers Tek 100mg/ml VG nic base, and the remainder is plain VG. That gives me 16.7mg/ml strength, all-VG (plus water) nic base. That is the bottle I keep handy to mix recipes - then I have only flavorings to add. I make small batches, frequently, and this saves me time.
 

Sully

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I get incredible flavor from 100% VG base(high desert) and 100% VG Nicotine(wizard labs). I can vape 1.5 - 3mg nic @ .25ohm and it's smooth as silk. Most of my flavors are made with organic, so no PG whatsoever. I do notice that the flavors take longer to really permeate the VG so additional steeping time really brings out the full flavor. Also, if you use alcohol based flavoring, you will want to breath as well. Think 2 weeks from time of mixing to ready to vape unless you use heat / sonic cleaner, which can reduce this time tremendously. Hope this helps!
 

StrappedKaos

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I use 100% vg nic. And most of my mixes are close to 95% vg unless I cant find the flavor in vg base or I cant naturally extract it using vg. If you do cut it I can give some advice, I use a couple diff. Products to cut for diff. Reasons.
Distilled water- I use distilled water since it has no minerals in it and minerals will cause a build up on coils, not to mention fluoride and other additional chemicals not in distilled water. Water does nothing for me but thin out the vg for help with tanks but not to big a deal for dripper. 5-10% used on average.
Pga (pure grain alcohol)/vodka/moonshine- these are normally distilled more than once and the smoother the drink the better it works, it also adds throat hit but I dont use it for that honestly. it can help with mixing of flavors and when steeping it can evaporate leaving the thinning aspect to best less then perfect. 5-15%
Concentrated lemon/lime juice- I tend to use this as a thinner plus a smoother to add complexity to fruit flavors. I also mix it with water/pga to help achieve what im after, I normally use around 2-10% and that depends on the fruit flavors used.
Vinegar/apple cidar vinegar/balsamic- this is a smoother and always mixed with water or alcohol for use in tobacco flavors, its always used in 1-5% and i only use when making tobacco flavor as when adding heat it will take ions and helps to keep the ph more balanced. Which is odd and you would think you want to add a acid that will smooth the higher pg but it does not work as well imho as opposed to the acv in small amounts.
Saline solution- I have used before but never found my sweet spot but it can help turn an acidic fruit into a smoother mix I have heard.1-10% was average from what I remember.
Smooth- I have used it many times with tobacco juices and it works well but it is odd because to much destroys a juice and too little will do next to nothing imho, tfa vape wizard I have heard is similar to it also.
Using things like em or other sweeteners mixed in low percents mixed with distilled water/acv/pga can help smooth it out without adding much of any sweetness and thin out juice.
Tfa has some non pg/non vg flavors and base that is reported to be great for cutting or thinning juice while carrying flavor great, the downfall being it can seperate from vg and can also cloud/crystallize in the vg/pg mix.
There are some other options you csn use on the market also. I can tell you what I have found from my experience, vg/pg/nicotine are all nuetral in ph. When using lemon juice it is used in such a low amount it has very little effect. The same goes for vinegar but acv has an ability to receive ions when heated since its carbon molecules, its been sometime since chemistry so I could be slightly off in my wording. Much like their affect on tobacco and fruits when added its a way to smooth very tart flavors are by using coffee flavor, I use 1-5 drops of diff. Coffee flavors to smooth the super tart flavors, to understand why add a tbsp of expresso to a strawberry or lemon shake and enjoy.
I have reached my limit on this message so far but will add more when I get time lol, hope this helps someone.
 

StrappedKaos

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Oh I almost forgot to add my thoughts on flavors with vg....
I used extra flavor with vg until I began natural extraction of my own flavors, then it changed how I went about flavor percentages since I cant get the same concentrations using ne but because its natural and not artificial it normally has a Better taste even thou I have to use more lol. Some add ins can help magnify the flavors you add to vg, most of the time I dont need since I use natural flavoring and it can be added at much larger amounts since its a vg base or evaporated alcohol mixed with vg. Its alot to take in but over time it will all just get easy and be a better flavor. I have found to much flavor and it hits a flavor wall that without add ins will either have a negative effect or just stay at the Same flavor no matter how much added.
 

buffaloguy

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Ive been mixing nearly all vg for over 2 years now. Keep it simple and you'll be fine. Ive been using essential depot VG and wizard labs vg nic. However I just recieved a bottle of vaperstek nic im gonna crack here in a few mins.

Vg is a smoother vape by far. Throat hit will be less and VG nic typically is less peppery. DW doesnt do much for thoat hit however it can increase vapor output of VG some but its primarialy to thin out VG and as a major added benefit helps to disperse the flavoring throughout the juice better.

Generally Im at 80%VG/20% everything else. That everything else will be a combination of flavoring (s), additives, and the remainder is distilled water. I find this blend will wick properly in ANY atty, tank, clearo, carto.... you name it. I mostly use rba's with 500 mesh or cotton. Also trying rayon in my foggers and kayfuns. Now, if you are using rda's you can use as high vg content you want and eliminate more distilled water because you are dripping on the coil.

As far as needing more flavoring for VG juice.... A MYTH! Sort of. At best you need 0%-1% more flavoring in a vg juice vs. the same comparable high pg juice. Most often I can take a pg recipe and convert to high vg with zero difference in flavor. I usually go .05% more flavoring tho.
 

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