I suck at twisted

[OBDave]

Okay, so although I've got tons of experience in simple builds, I can't seem to get anything else right...

Whenever I wrap wire, it seems that it doesn't want to fire evenly - doesn't matter if I'm doing a tensioned wrap or using a coiling tool like a Kuro Coiler, nothing seems to heat evenly and I usually end up scrapping my builds pretty quickly because they scorch my wick or just don't perform how I'd envisioned they would.

Here's a pair of 26g twisted wires I wrapped up last night - I clamped the tips of a long strand into my drill, put tension at the middle with a pair of needle nose pliers, and wrapped slowly until the tips of the wire sheared off in the drill:



The twists look good to me, but I can't get the coils to contact evenly, and despite plenty of pinching and adjusting I just can't get an even glow under fire. Is there some trick I'm missing? Do I just need to keep trying? Should I just drop gauge to 22 or 20 and be happy because I can build basic coils that fire and perform how I want them to every time? I keep reading about all these magical, insanely intricate builds that hit like a unicorn hung like Ron Jeremy, but even a relatively simple attempt at twisting wire sucks ass compared to a normal build for me...

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Okay, so although I've got tons of experience in simple builds, I can't seem to get anything else right...

Whenever I wrap wire, it seems that it doesn't want to fire evenly - doesn't matter if I'm doing a tensioned wrap or using a coiling tool like a Kuro Coiler, nothing seems to heat evenly and I usually end up scrapping my builds pretty quickly because they scorch my wick or just don't perform how I'd envisioned they would.

Here's a pair of 26g twisted wires I wrapped up last night - I clamped the tips of a long strand into my drill, put tension at the middle with a pair of needle nose pliers, and wrapped slowly until the tips of the wire sheared off in the drill:

View attachment 21686

The twists look good to me, but I can't get the coils to contact evenly, and despite plenty of pinching and adjusting I just can't get an even glow under fire. Is there some trick I'm missing? Do I just need to keep trying? Should I just drop gauge to 22 or 20 and be happy because I can build basic coils that fire and perform how I want them to every time? I keep reading about all these magical, insanely intricate builds that hit like a unicorn hung like Ron Jeremy, but even a relatively simple attempt at twisting wire sōucks ass compared to a normal build for me...

A lot of times with my twisted wire I wrap spaced coils anyway.but when I do contact coils I oils and pinch at relatively high wattage and hold them pinched until they are cooled.
Mentally I'm melting them together if that makes sense,
90% of the time I wrap a parallel build with a regular round wire. -tends to make them come together easier,

 

[OBDave]

A lot of times with my twisted wire I wrap spaced coils anyway.but when I do contact coils I oils and pinch at relatively high wattage and hold them pinched until they are cooled.
Mentally I'm melting them together if that makes sense,
90% of the time I wrap a parallel build with a regular round wire. -tends to make them come together easier,

Okay, you're doing that with ceramic tweezers, right? With my metal tweezers and pliers, the coil would pop at the lead if I'm touching it with any power delivery...and without power they still don't seem to be fusing like my simple round coils do.

Maybe I should watch some videos (shudder) on parallels...

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Okay, you're doing that with ceramic tweezers, right? With my metal tweezers and pliers, the coil would pop at the lead if I'm touching it with any power delivery...and without power they still don't seem to be fusing like my simple round coils do.

Maybe I should watch some videos (shudder) on parallels...

No, im to cheap to buy ceramic tweezers. Hahaha
I just fire it for a few seconds and as soon as I take my finger off the fire button, I pinch it with a pair of regular ole tweezers.
The tweezers were my ex-wife's sp they are used to being heated from the pits of hell-from where she came)

But ceramic would work fine -i reckon.

 

[nabibrian]

I love my ceramic tipped tweezers, they are amazing. I think every builder should have them.
What I like about them is that you can use them while firing the button and get a good squeeze on the coil while they are red hot.

 

[Swerved]

The thing I've found with twisted wire is, it is especially springy once twisted. If you want to alleviate that a bit, then heating the wire red hot before coiling it will help (provided you have a torch). Just slowly drag the torch at an even pace down the entire length of the twisted wire. You will basically create about a 1" wide red spot in the wire that will move at the same rate you move the torch if done correctly. Thicker wires may take a little more time by moving the torch more slowly. Once that is done the wire will coil a lot better and you can start off with a bit of a tighter wind so you should have less tweaking to do to get it just like you want it once installed.

As an alternative and as a previous poster mentioned, parallel coils are something to look into. I prefer them to twisted and they perform as well or better. Also, they are not as tough to wrap as you might imagine, especially at 26 gauge. They do take a little patience to get straightened out but it's not too bad if you just take your time and remember not to get frustrated. I've mangled some up pretty bad making them and installing them, and still the end result came out really nice. And of course, the more you do the better you get at them.

 

[OBDave]

No, im to cheap to buy ceramic tweezers. Hahaha
I just fire it for a few seconds and as soon as I take my finger off the fire button, I pinch it with a pair of regular ole tweezers.
The tweezers were my ex-wife's sp they are used to being heated from the pits of hell-from where she came)

But ceramic would work fine -i reckon.

Okay, that's what I'm doing - still no dice, probably because of this:

The thing I've found with twisted wire is, it is especially springy once twisted. If you want to alleviate that a bit, then heating the wire red hot before coiling it will help (provided you have a torch). Just slowly drag the torch at an even pace down the entire length of the twisted wire. You will basically create about a 1" wide red spot in the wire that will move at the same rate you move the torch if done correctly. Thicker wires may take a little more time by moving the torch more slowly. Once that is done the wire will coil a lot better and you can start off with a bit of a tighter wind so you should have less tweaking to do to get it just like you want it once installed.

As an alternative and as a previous poster mentioned, parallel coils are something to look into. I prefer them to twisted and they perform as well or better. Also, they are not as tough to wrap as you might imagine, especially at 26 gauge. They do take a little patience to get straightened out but it's not too bad if you just take your time and remember not to get frustrated. I've mangled some up pretty bad making them and installing them, and still the end result came out really nice. And of course, the more you do the better you get at them.

I think you're right - I've never bothered to torch my wire because I hadn't encountered excess springiness until I started twisting. Will try torching after the twist and before the coil wrap...will also look into parallel builds.

Thanks all!

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Another thing -don't know why I dint think to say this..I put in two extra wraps, pull it tight then back out one on each side to keep the legs straight.

 

[CrazyChef]

Do you pulse your twisted coils when you put them in your atty? I just learned this technique last night. It was my first twisted coil build, so I watched a video and it made sense. I pulsed it a little at a time while the wire/coil "adjusted" itself and tightened up nicely. It was VERY uneven heating with the first pulse, then evened out nicely after about 5 or 6 pulses.

It ain't pretty, but here's the coil (4 pieces of 26g kanthal):

Here's the video I watched. He starts the pulsing at around the 9:55 mark.

 

[robot zombie]

Ceramic tweezers are nice, but not entirely necessary. The key to getting them to fire evenly is in the pulsing. I usually do long pulses with long rests. Each time you do pulse, you can see them evening out a little more. With twisted wire, there's only so much tweezers can do. Initially, the two strands will not expand and contract evenly and no amount of squeezing will change that. As you apply heat and allow them to cool down, they tug on one another.

Also, protip for tighter twists than that: pull enough wire for both strands off of the roll, straighten it, and mount both ends into the chuck so that you have a loop. Use a screwdriver at the apex of the loop instead of pliers to keep it taut. It's easier to control and you don't need as much tension to keep a grip on the ends coming out of the drill. All you have to do is hold the screwdriver in place as you allow it to be pulled towards the drill. The less tightly you have to pull on the wire to keep it straight, the easier it will be for the metal to contract and give you tighter twists before it reaches a breaking point.

 

[Erck]

OBDave: I realize I am jumping in a little late, but this may help you tighten those twisted coils. After you wind the coil, pass it through the blue (coolest) part of a flame. DO NOT let it get red. Heat it and squeeze it a couple of times. I think you will be happy with the results. The key is not letting it get to the red hot stage. It will form a scale on the wire.
Eric

 

[Mike H.]

I just tried my first twisted set up a couple of nights ago..i did a twisted 30g and a twisted 28g.

In all honesty it is a bit more involved to "pinch" for an even burn...I to just heat the coils up red hot and pinch with non ceramic tweezers untill cool...Because the twists cause a not so even "wrap to wrap" mating surface ,its a pain in the ass.

Just takes a bit more patience but i managed to get all mine working properly..i love how juice just gets sucked down inside the coil as opposed to waiting for it to pull it in through the sides