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Holiday -Ben Stein

Whiskey

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The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.

My confession:

I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees, Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are, Christmas trees.

It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, 'Merry Christmas' to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu . If people want a creche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from, that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the America we knew went to.

In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her 'How could God let something like this happen?' (regarding Hurricane Katrina).. Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response.. She said, 'I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?'

In light of recent events.... Terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found a few years ago) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave, because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said okay..

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing yet?

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.

Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

Pass it on if you think it has merit.

If not, then just discard it... No one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.



My Best Regards, Honestly and respectfully,

Ben Stein
 

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There is no doubt there is a tremendous amount of hostility leveled at people of most faiths....these days....the totalitariansmust kill God and put the state in his place....
I grew up around alot of American Indians, and the Christians in the community always showed equal respect and taught me to show equal respect toward their faith....I can't really see anything but good came from either community having a large spiritual tradition.
 

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I don't usually talk politics or religion, but the world is getting to be a very sad wounded place
yeah...the dominant culture I grew up in were hispanic Catholics, and I always loved going to midnight mass on Christmas with my catholic buddies...I remeber going to an easter service of Greek Orthodox people that was a beautiful service.I don't know how people live without a spiritual life.not neccesarrily a church,but a spiritual life.
 

Whiskey

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Midnight mass, what a lovely tradition and is one of ours too, and I VERY much agree and wonder how so many today don't have at least some type of spiritual life inside them , for me it helps guide me and keeps me grounded, more able to deal with the way it is today.
 

Model_A_Ford

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oooh, Christian persecution chain e-mail.

The first bit of it is culled from Ben Stein where he's talking about how he doesn't care about pop culture, and how folks celebrating Christmas doesn't offend him as a Jew. Then he goes on to say some bs about people believing in God getting pushed around and some random mention of the Constitution and not being able to worship God.

It's just baseless victim mentality. The e-mail gets even more ridiculous after that. It's just one of those e-mail forwards that gets sent around so folks can all get in the same victim echo chamber.


I think this is the Stein part, but could be wrong.


"Herewith at this happy time of year, a few confessions from my beating heart:


I have no freaking clue who Nick and Jessica are. I see them on the cover of People and Us constantly when I am buying my dog biscuits and kitty litter. I often ask the checkers at the grocery stores. They never know who Nick and Jessica are either. Who are they? Will it change my life if I know who they are and why they have broken up? Why are they so important? I don't know who Lindsay Lohan is, either, and I do not care at all about Tom Cruise's wife.

Am I going to be called before a Senate committee and asked if I am a subversive? Maybe, but I just have no clue who Nick and Jessica are. Is this what it means to be no longer young. It's not so bad.

Next confession: I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are: Christmas trees. It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, "Merry Christmas" to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu. If people want a creche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship Nick and Jessica and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him?

I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where Nick and Jessica came from and where the America we knew went to."
















 

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Not bothered in the least by Christmas trees being called that, even though the concept predates Christianity by quite a bit. No problem whatsoever with "Merry Christmas!" greetings, unless they're overemphasized to make clear that the well wishes don't apply if you celebrate a different holiday. I can confirm who really means it and who is actually using the greeting to intentionally be a prick by their reaction to my "Thanks! And a blessed solstice to you!"

fat fingered flubs courtesy dumb mobile phone
 

pulsevape

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Not bothered in the least by Christmas trees being called that, even though the concept predates Christianity by quite a bit. No problem whatsoever with "Merry Christmas!" greetings, unless they're overemphasized to make clear that the well wishes don't apply if you celebrate a different holiday. I can confirm who really means it and who is actually using the greeting to intentionally be a prick by their reaction to my "Thanks! And a blessed solstice to you!"

fat fingered flubs courtesy dumb mobile phone
american paganisim is so 1980s
 

pulsevape

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It is so insane that we celebrate christmas,but don't really acknowledge it...we have to call it the"winter holiday" or some other such Orwellian nonsense how schizoprenic and unhealthy.....and how facisit has the world grown that we feel the need to do this.
 

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I don't usually talk politics or religion, but the world is getting to be a very sad wounded place, we should all be bonding together, regardless of what political or religion belief

That is indeed ideal, but it might be idealism given what seems to be the nature of humanity, the "higher animal".
 

OBDave

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american paganisim is so 1980s
Not that I'm really that big on paganism or Christianity - if either one is your thing I respect it, so long as you can respect people that have a different thing, like my celebrating Christmas as a purely commercialized holiday centered around the secular capitalist practice of buying shit, with the nice touch of giving most of it to your friends and family rather than yourself.

I think celebrating your faith as a joyous thing is great, and that includes proudly proclaiming which holiday it is you're celebrating. But I don't think you need to hate on people that are equally proud of some other tradition - hence the solstice thing. I've also been known to throw out a Happy Hanukkah or Kwanzaa (even though I don't even know what that is), if you're cool you'll be cool with me celebrating whatever I want to celebrate, if you're a judgmental prick you'll get your panties bunched because everyone else doesn't conform to the way of thinking that you do.
 

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It is so insane that we celebrate christmas,but don't really acknowledge it...we have to call it the"winter holiday" or some other such Orwellian nonsense how schizoprenic and unhealthy.....and how facisit has the world grown that we feel the need to do this.

You must go to the victim club meetings.

Who is forcing you to use the facist Orwellian schizophrenic unhealthy term of Winter holiday? That is outrageous. Name and shame them, let's fight this oppression!
 

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Not that I'm really that big on paganism or Christianity - if either one is your thing I respect it, so long as you can respect people that have a different thing, like my celebrating Christmas as a purely commercialized holiday centered around the secular capitalist practice of buying shit, with the nice touch of giving most of it to your friends and family rather than yourself.

I think celebrating your faith as a joyous thing is great, and that includes proudly proclaiming which holiday it is you're celebrating. But I don't think you need to hate on people that are equally proud of some other tradition - hence the solstice thing. I've also been known to throw out a Happy Hanukkah or Kwanzaa (even though I don't even know what that is), if you're cool you'll be cool with me celebrating whatever I want to celebrate, if you're a judgmental prick you'll get your panties bunched because everyone else doesn't conform to the way of thinking that you do.
I guess Mr. Stien's article is that the entire point is that alot of non-christians that are going out of their way to be pricks...
 
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pulsevape

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You must go to the victim club meetings.

Who is forcing you to use the facist Orwellian schizophrenic unhealthy term of Winter holiday? That is outrageous. Name and shame them, let's fight this oppression!
Isn't their a meeting of the NAMBLA memebers for a free palstine you should be attending....dullards like you would like to pretend that things like cultural marxisim and chaos theory don't exist even after 7 years of one of the most toatlitarian dickheads in the history of the country being in the whitehouse...what Mr. Stien is pointing out is the degree into which cultural marxisim has spread within the west...open a book try antonio gramsci
 
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Model_A_Ford

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Isn't their a meeting of the NAMBLA memebers for a free palstine you should be attending....dullards like you would like to pretend that things like cultural marxisim and chaos theory don't exist even after 7 years of one of the most toatlitarian dickheads in the history of the country being in the whitehouse...what Mr. Stien is pointing out is the degree into which cultural marxisim has spread within the west...open a book try antonio gramsci

There's a snippet of Stein, and the rest is lies and fanatic ramblings meant to incite feelings of victimhood.

Please, provide an example of how religion is being oppressed. I love how you throw out the baseless wild personal insults. I'm conservative, I don't think Christians or any religion should get government special interest group preferential treatment. Do you want state religion?
 

guyakaguy

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Well, Christmas as we know and celebrate it today is just plagiarism of the ancient northern European pagan festival of Yule.

I am an atheist, and as an atheist I don't give a steaming pile of horse shit what people say and call things during this time of year.

I'm going to go around saying "happy scrotum hair" or "merry made-up-bullshit" during the holiday season. It makes as much sense as saying "merry Christmas" to me.

On Easter when people tell me "happy Easter" I respond "and a happy zombie Jesus day to you too".

It's all just fucking made up fairy-tale bullshit so stop going on the Christmas defense. You're not winning anybody over.

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pulsevape

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There's a snippet of Stein, and the rest is lies and fanatic ramblings meant to incite feelings of victimhood.

Please, provide an example of how religion is being oppressed. I love how you throw out the baseless wild personal insults. I'm conservative, I don't think Christians or any religion should get government special interest group preferential treatment. Do you want state religion?
so blah blah blah no I haven't read antonio gramsci. Ben Stien is not talking about creating a state anything and niether did I...I don't know for how long some priest may have had you in a closet alone together, but you need to get past that and not react with an automatic fear that somebody is trying to force something down your throat again....nobody advocated for a state religon...advocated for any laws.or anything of the sort. I was talking about cultural marxisim.
 

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apparently some people suffer form an inability to respect other people's opinions and speak in a civil manner
My grandmother once told me...if you have nothing niceto say don't say anything at all....even at the age of 12 I thought it was one of the stupidist things I'd ever heard.
 

pulsevape

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Well, Christmas as we know and celebrate it today is just plagiarism of the ancient northern European pagan festival of Yule.

I am an atheist, and as an atheist I don't give a steaming pile of horse shit what people say and call things during this time of year.

I'm going to go around saying "happy scrotum hair" or "merry made-up-bullshit" during the holiday season. It makes as much sense as saying "merry Christmas" to me.

On Easter when people tell me "happy Easter" I respond "and a happy zombie Jesus day to you too".

It's all just fucking made up fairy-tale bullshit so stop going on the Christmas defense. You're not winning anybody over.

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You're an aethist who doesn't care...but for some reason feels the overwhelming urge like every aethist I ever met ...to tell the entire palnet that they are aethists......to go out of his way to get on a thread and tell everybody he doesn't care...
 

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so blah blah blah no I haven't read antonio gramsci. Ben Stien is not talking about creating a state anything and niether did I...I don't know for how long some priest may have had you in a closet alone together, but you need to get past that and not react with an automatic fear that somebody is trying to force something down your throat again....nobody advocated for a state religon...advocated for any laws.or anything of the sort. I was talking about cultural marxisim.


Please explain, or give examples of, the ways religion is being oppressed.
 

guyakaguy

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so blah blah blah no I haven't read antonio gramsci. Ben Stien is not talking about creating a state anything and niether did I...I don't know for how long some priest may have had you in a closet alone together, but you need to get past that and not react with an automatic fear that somebody is trying to force something down your throat again....nobody advocated for a state religon...advocated for any laws.or anything of the sort. I was talking about cultural marxisim.
It doesn't sound like you've read Gramsci either.

Otherwise you'd know that Gramsci was referring to the hegemony of capitalism; the forcing of the working class to participate in the capitalist system that exploits them. He wasn't talking about a bunch of WASPs whining about their delusions of the government "imposing" secular views on them.

It's not enough to just read books, you need to understand and comprehend what is written.

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pulsevape

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Please explain, or give examples of, the ways religion is being oppressed.
Why....you are not someone who can hear beyond your fears of religon...I grew up among so many religous traditions and aethists I don't have alot of emotion tied up in anyone idea.
 
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pulsevape

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It doesn't sound like you've read Gramsci either.

Otherwise you'd know that Gramsci was referring to the hegemony of capitalism; the forcing of the working class to participate in the capitalist system that exploits them. He wasn't talking about a bunch of WASPs whining about their delusions of the government "imposing" secular views on them.

It's not enough to just read books, you need to understand and comprehend what is written.

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...the area of concern is not gamsci being a communist who cares that is banal enough as it is.....the thing that set gramsci apart was his idea of cultural marxisim as a political tool to destroy the republics and capitalisim....
 
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guyakaguy

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...the area of concern is not gamsci being a communist who cares that is banal enough as it is.....the thing that set gramsci apart was his idea of cultural marxisim as a political tool to destroy the republics and capitalisim....
So you're referencing the part where he criticizes religion (particularly the Roman Catholic church) for having too much influence on the politics?

What it sounds like to me is a sound bite from a conservative news outlet; somebody said "Gramsci" and used the term "cultural Marxism" and now you're an expert.

How many politicians are Christian? Ask them and 99%+ will say "yes" with no doubt or hesitation. Right, left, black, white, it doesn't make a difference; the leader state IS resoundingly Christian.

Now, I know in reality that 99% of people in general aren't Christian. This is a fact. 1/4 of the US is irreligious, why aren't 1/4 politicians irreligious? Oh, because of cultural Marxism.

You missed your bus because the new era of political correctness involves having to accept all of the drivel that comes out of someone's mouth because it's part of their "lived experience".

For real. Check that shit out!

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pulsevape

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what you wrote is incoherent rambeling nonsense..... see if you can make a coherent point. I mean that is just bouncing off the wall pointless screed.
cultural marxisim is not interested in an honest evaluation and examination of the role Christanity played in westeren thought...it is just an attack... the point is to simpley destroy it ...it hands out adolescent slogans to mindless twats to mouth in coffee houses who are content to simpley destroy things they don't posses the emotional maturity or intellectual discipline to understand.Communisim in general is an idea that appeals to the impotent and enraged,perhaps why it has been such a dismal failure.the philosiphy of the I am a spammer ban me dysfunctional.The point is to simpely destroy in order to create a cultural vaccum a void that can be filled with the half baked claptrap of totalitarian insanity.
 
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guyakaguy

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what you wrote is incoherent rambeling nonsense..... see if you can make a coherent point. I mean that is just bouncing off the wall pointless screed.
cultural marxisim is not interested in an honest evaluation and examination of the role Christanity played in westeren thought...it is just an attack... the point is to simpley destroy it ...it hands out adolescent slogans to mindless twats to mouth in coffee houses who are content to simpley destroy things they don't posses the emotional maturity or intellectual discipline to understand.Communisim in general is an idea that appeals to the impotent and enraged,perhaps why it has been such a dismal failure.the philosiphy of the I am a spammer ban me dysfunctional.The point is to simpely destroy in order to create a cultural vaccum a void that can be filled with the half baked claptrap of totalitarian insanity.
Ahhhh. Mr. Ed-its a lot.

See, I thought you were actually talking about something, but you're just using the old conservative red-baiting tactic, complete with the full-on bullshit smoke and mirrors.

You know the Nazis used to smear around the same kind of bullshit, but they called it "Cultural Bolshevism".

Correct me if I'm wrong (or try to anyway), but you're the kind of protestant homophibic white supremacist anti-semite that thinks that the cultural acceptance of homosexuality will lead to widespread acceptance of bestiality, necrophilia, and pedophilia; and you also think that anyone who is in favor of civil rights, accepting of homosexuality, accepting of cultures different than their own, is anti-war, and doesn't think that a woman's place is in the home is a commie hippie bastard. You long for the good old days of being able to punch a woman in the face for not folding your shirt or making your sandwich the way you wanted it; you yearn for the good old days of going downtown and beating up a ****** or two; you ache for the days when they used to string up a ****** for having sex with a white girl.

Your speaking of "Cultural Marxism" in the strictest right-wing Nazi nutjob conspiracy theory kind of way, not in the academic sense that I was thinking. I'll know next time I hear "Cultural Marxism" that it's a right-wing clown talking out of its ass.

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Oh my God you are stupider than I imagned..... sorry these kinds of discussions are way above your pay grade. You're like some sort of Obamagirl caricature....I live in the SF bay area and have for 35 years and you would be an embarrassment even here. you came unglued .....total meltdown.you're ridiculous and the picture you paint isn't even close...LOL
 
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OBDave

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I'm sorry this thread took the turn it did, and for my contributions turning it that way at all.

Would it help if I admitted there should be nothing but Christians in this country/the world, and that there are no other winter holidays aside from Christmas? I'm not going to, nor am I going to hate on "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays" or anyone else celebrating in the way that they see fit as long as it doesn't impinge upon my rights (your right to swing your fist stops at the tip of my nose, otherwise have fun with that), but I'm checking out.

Sorry, Whiskey - I hope you have as good a Christmas as you can, since I know that's your thing this time of year.
 

guyakaguy

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Oh my God you are stupider than I imagned..... sorry these kinds of discussions are way above your pay grade. You're like some sort of Obamagirl caricature....I live in the SF bay area and have for 35 years and you would be an embarrassment even here. you came unglued .....total meltdown.you're ridiculous and the picture you paint isn't even close...LOL

Context. It's the setting of a word. It's something you don't understand. Don't listen to music or read books because there are bad words there that can be taken out of context. Of course you know nothing about saying things to have an effect. You never antagonize or provoke.

You live in the bay area? Of California? That's hilarious. I've known several people from CA, and a couple from the bay area. They've all been very progressive and I've got along well with them. To be an embarrassment to the likes of you is a compliment.

I've told you before that I don't like Obama, but since you have no attention span I reiterated it for you. I didn't vote for him, but your fallback for anyone having a progressive thought is that they're on their knees under the oval office desk.

I'd also like to add that these discussions aren't "above my pay grade"; more like when you enter them I have to make sure I have my hip waders on because you spread the bullshit on THICK.

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Context. It's the setting of a word. It's something you don't understand. Don't listen to music or read books because there are bad words there that can be taken out of context. Of course you know nothing about saying things to have an effect. You never antagonize or provoke.

You live in the bay area? Of California? That's hilarious. I've known several people from CA, and a couple from the bay area. They've all been very progressive and I've got along well with them. To be an embarrassment to the likes of you is a compliment.

I've told you before that I don't like Obama, but since you have no attention span I reiterated it for you. I didn't vote for him, but your fallback for anyone having a progressive thought is that they're on their knees under the oval office desk.

I'd also like to add that these discussions aren't "above my pay grade"; more like when you enter them I have to make sure I have my hip waders on because you spread the bullshit on THICK.

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If you think that's mind blowing Obamagirl you'll get a kick outta this...I lived in the Castro....used to go and chat with Harvey Milk a couple of times a week at his camera shop while I was studing film making. I was on the corner of 18th and Castro when the white riots broke out...I was married to a JEW from Paris who was half french and half eygptian, my present wife of over 20 years is half indian..I have american Indian blood on both sides of my family and have never attended a protestant church in my life...every single one of your bigoted cliches was dead wrong...LOL....
 
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guyakaguy

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Bring back that last part edit man!

Either way I don't paint the world with the broad brush you're referring to. Just you. You get the brush.

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pulsevape

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Bring back that last part edit man!

Either way I don't paint the world with the broad brush you're referring to. Just you. You get the brush.

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Oh apparently you do let me refresh your memory,

"Correct me if I'm wrong (or try to anyway), but you're the kind of protestant homophibic white supremacist anti-semite that thinks that the cultural acceptance of homosexuality will lead to widespread acceptance of bestiality, necrophilia, and pedophilia; and you also think that anyone who is in favor of civil rights, accepting of homosexuality, accepting of cultures different than their own, is anti-war, and doesn't think that a woman's place is in the home is a commie hippie bastard. You long for the good old days of being able to punch a woman in the face for not folding your shirt or making your sandwich the way you wanted it; you yearn for the good old days of going downtown and beating up a ****** or two; you ache for the days when they used to string up a ****** for having sex with a white girl."

so wrong,wrong,wrong,wrong ect......I'd say that was some real broad brushstokes wouldn't you.....it's about as a ridiculous leftist bogeyman fantasy as I've ever seen.

 
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guyakaguy

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Oh apparently you do let me refresh your memory,

"Correct me if I'm wrong (or try to anyway), but you're the kind of protestant homophibic white supremacist anti-semite that thinks that the cultural acceptance of homosexuality will lead to widespread acceptance of bestiality, necrophilia, and pedophilia; and you also think that anyone who is in favor of civil rights, accepting of homosexuality, accepting of cultures different than their own, is anti-war, and doesn't think that a woman's place is in the home is a commie hippie bastard. You long for the good old days of being able to punch a woman in the face for not folding your shirt or making your sandwich the way you wanted it; you yearn for the good old days of going downtown and beating up a ****** or two; you ache for the days when they used to string up a ****** for having sex with a white girl."

so wrong,wrong,wrong,wrong ect......I'd say that was some real broad brushstokes wouldn't you.....it's about as a ridiculous leftist bogeyman fantasy as I've ever seen.

When you start swinging with hard-right/far-right wingnut radical Christian dominionist/conspiracy crap it's all too easy an assumption to make.

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