5150sick
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All these great flavors... but not for me
- Thread starter 5150sick
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Zen, like quite a few of us who started vaping two or more years ago has likely never gone down the cloud-chasing, direct lung hitting, high-power road.
I'm with him on that. My nic level has been steady at 15 mg/ml for more than two years now. I see no reason to vape at 1.21 GW or fill my lungs with giant plumes of of low-nic vapor. I vape so I don't smoke. If I had DL'd tobacco smoke the way some people DL their vapes, I'd probably be dead already.
That's not to say I have a problem with anyone who enjoys the the more current style of vaping. It's your body, do with it as you wish. I'll stick with what works for me, and it's not that hard to spike low- or even no-nic juice to whatever your preferred level is.
I'm with him on that. My nic level has been steady at 15 mg/ml for more than two years now. I see no reason to vape at 1.21 GW or fill my lungs with giant plumes of of low-nic vapor. I vape so I don't smoke. If I had DL'd tobacco smoke the way some people DL their vapes, I'd probably be dead already.
That's not to say I have a problem with anyone who enjoys the the more current style of vaping. It's your body, do with it as you wish. I'll stick with what works for me, and it's not that hard to spike low- or even no-nic juice to whatever your preferred level is.
Good old Zen,one of the Grandfathers of vaping....He's right ...the dirty little secret we don't talk about is how vaping has been co-opted...Look at the threads on this forum....you have all these newbies running around with their 500watt robomods and their chinomizers with 1/2 inch airflows asking how they can get a bigger cloud or has anyone seen the newest 1000 watt box.....they are for the most part totally ignorant of other styles of vaping other than the chinomizer/Mc nugget tanks.....and the industry has conned them into believing that the more power they use , the more juice they suck down in each pull... the better the vape they get. It's just another bigger is better mentality..like the humvee,or the suv,
and the vendors just love it,because they sell 4 times the juice to them than they would to another style of vaping..So, they encourage this shit,they encourage bigger is better because they sell more shit..mor juice, more coilheads,more wire,ect.....it's not that this style of vaping is bad..it's that this style of vaping is being sold as the ONLY way or the BEST way,and not because it has any instrinsic worth,but because it is more profitable to the vendors. and people go along with the bullshit,because like every other aspect of life people follow the crowd because they want to be part of the crowd..and now days the newer vapers have little knowledge or curiosity about other styles of vaping.they have no experince they have a narrow band of experince.
I vape almost exclusevlly on gennys...I have tried all the diffrent styles of vaping(except for squonking...you guys need to come up with a cheaper squonk box that isn't made out of plastic)...and I'm curious to try new things. But I know what Zen is talking about.I go into most B&M and the majority of people there have never actually seen a genny, have no idea how it works,never owned one....and so the juice they are selling is all 0,3,6 mg...I have this discussion with DIYers..I believe juice recepies have to be tailored to the style of vaping...I gave up on commerical e-juice over a year ago,and started to DIY,because most e-juice was being tailored to younger vapers with less sophiticated tastes and all sucking on .2 coils.....
Zen is right....I just wish he built a better genny.
and the vendors just love it,because they sell 4 times the juice to them than they would to another style of vaping..So, they encourage this shit,they encourage bigger is better because they sell more shit..mor juice, more coilheads,more wire,ect.....it's not that this style of vaping is bad..it's that this style of vaping is being sold as the ONLY way or the BEST way,and not because it has any instrinsic worth,but because it is more profitable to the vendors. and people go along with the bullshit,because like every other aspect of life people follow the crowd because they want to be part of the crowd..and now days the newer vapers have little knowledge or curiosity about other styles of vaping.they have no experince they have a narrow band of experince.
I vape almost exclusevlly on gennys...I have tried all the diffrent styles of vaping(except for squonking...you guys need to come up with a cheaper squonk box that isn't made out of plastic)...and I'm curious to try new things. But I know what Zen is talking about.I go into most B&M and the majority of people there have never actually seen a genny, have no idea how it works,never owned one....and so the juice they are selling is all 0,3,6 mg...I have this discussion with DIYers..I believe juice recepies have to be tailored to the style of vaping...I gave up on commerical e-juice over a year ago,and started to DIY,because most e-juice was being tailored to younger vapers with less sophiticated tastes and all sucking on .2 coils.....
Zen is right....I just wish he built a better genny.
I can understand both sides of this. I have a store and we make our own liquids (which are pre-steeped before being offered for sale). With one exception, all our liquids go up to 24 mg/ml. But our 0-12 mg/ml sales dwarf the 13-24 mg/ml sales.
But if I were a store owner that bought juice, I'd have to go with what sells. I think all stores should have a least some juice in the higher nicotine concentrations but I understand their predicament. A business has to make money or it's not going to last long.
I do disagree with one statement in the article. Nicotine is not the expensive part of juice. I can't speak for everyone but the flavorings make up 80% of the material cost of our eliquid (on average).
But if I were a store owner that bought juice, I'd have to go with what sells. I think all stores should have a least some juice in the higher nicotine concentrations but I understand their predicament. A business has to make money or it's not going to last long.
I do disagree with one statement in the article. Nicotine is not the expensive part of juice. I can't speak for everyone but the flavorings make up 80% of the material cost of our eliquid (on average).
I agree you don't need to fry the liquid to enjoy nice smooth flavor on one of my mods I still use the VIVI Nova top coil my settings are 4.5 watts , 3.4 volts ,2.5 ohms filled with DIY Strawberry cream / Custard taste delightful . More power is not always better ! VAPE OWN Bro's & Sis's .
what i find funny is this.
he can make his own juice
he can just add nic to these bottles and bring it to his desired level
i vape at 6mg or sometimes 3mg
im not a cloud chaser.
i agree becuase i started at 30mg 6 years or so ago
when i got my first subtank i dropped form 24 to 6 over night
I and my wife did DL cigarettes
so there is room for all levels of nic out there
if the want to charge an extra 25 a 30ml for higher levels fine i think. but make it available
he can make his own juice
he can just add nic to these bottles and bring it to his desired level
i vape at 6mg or sometimes 3mg
im not a cloud chaser.
i agree becuase i started at 30mg 6 years or so ago
when i got my first subtank i dropped form 24 to 6 over night
I and my wife did DL cigarettes
so there is room for all levels of nic out there
if the want to charge an extra 25 a 30ml for higher levels fine i think. but make it available
5150sick
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I was watching Phil Busardo the other day and he went on a rant because when he goes to vape conventions he either has to call the vendor in advance and ask them to bring 12mg eliquid or he just can not find it.
Those conventions were originally intended to convert smokers into vapers
Now they have chicks in thongs on stripper poles, a DJ playing house music, and a bunch of bearded overweight clowns running around blowing clouds of copyright infringing 3mg ejuice with cartoon labels.
If a husband and wife who were smokers in their mid 40's walked into one of these things no one would even bother to try to help them quit smoking.
They would probably turn around and walk right out.
Current smokers can not take direct lung hits at 50 watts in a crown tank with strawberry milkshake eliqiud nor do they want to.
Without the ability to convert new smokers how the fuck do you expect to grow your customer base? Teenagers?.
And that's why we are in this FDA mess.
Those conventions were originally intended to convert smokers into vapers
Now they have chicks in thongs on stripper poles, a DJ playing house music, and a bunch of bearded overweight clowns running around blowing clouds of copyright infringing 3mg ejuice with cartoon labels.
If a husband and wife who were smokers in their mid 40's walked into one of these things no one would even bother to try to help them quit smoking.
They would probably turn around and walk right out.
Current smokers can not take direct lung hits at 50 watts in a crown tank with strawberry milkshake eliqiud nor do they want to.
Without the ability to convert new smokers how the fuck do you expect to grow your customer base? Teenagers?.
And that's why we are in this FDA mess.
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What is more..how do we protect vaping from being allowed to be used as a nicotine replacment therapy, and a valid medical treatment when we have a bunch of hippster twats just using vaping to accessorize their fashion staement...it's gone beyond that...look at this forum is a perfect example vaping used to be more varied more diverse, people had more experince with all forms of vaping ....but now 85% just want to get hooked up to the newest Mc Nugget tanks that will allow them to vape .15 ohms....and many of them don't even have a serious smoking addiction....for a smoker trying to get off cigarettes it looks like a fucking circus.....eventually the public at large will see vapers as trifeling ass fools and feel no sympathy for shutting down vaping altogether.
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AndriaD
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I agree with the article, even though I couldn't start vaping regularly until I got some 6mg ejuice -- most smokers trying to make the switch to vaping DIDN'T spend the last 20 yrs smoking ultra-lights.
And this. RIGHT ON! I've been vaping for over 2 yrs, and I STILL can't do that, nor do I want to! I tootle-puff my 4mg very happily at 10w -- happily as long as my Achilles RDAs stay functional, because they don't make them anymore, nor any other really tight-draw flavor-oriented RDA. Some of us have zero desire to huff our vape, we're trying to abstain from smoking, not huffing. Huffing would NOT satisfy my need. I resent the hell out of the entire industry moving to producing attys that can ONLY be used as huffers.
Andria
And this. RIGHT ON! I've been vaping for over 2 yrs, and I STILL can't do that, nor do I want to! I tootle-puff my 4mg very happily at 10w -- happily as long as my Achilles RDAs stay functional, because they don't make them anymore, nor any other really tight-draw flavor-oriented RDA. Some of us have zero desire to huff our vape, we're trying to abstain from smoking, not huffing. Huffing would NOT satisfy my need. I resent the hell out of the entire industry moving to producing attys that can ONLY be used as huffers.
Andria
Worrying times..... In the UK it is the opposite way round. Higher strengh nic for £1 is available at any £1 store and these shops are everywhere. This is great for those who are converting from smoking as it is easily available and affordable. "Flavour chasers" dream they are not, but as said by others you don't want this when you are converting from smoking. I too stated on 12mg strengh seven years ago in my late 30's. I wanted my e liquid to taste as much like the taste of a cig as possible as that is what l was use to for 20 years.
Today new starters young and old are going to vape shops and leaving with sub ohm devices and nic levels between 3-6mg from the get go. This set-up is never going to fulfill most peoples nic requires without vaping high volumes of liquid. As a plausible consequence we are reading evidence of nic poisoning on this very forum from new vapers.
Owning a vape shop and selling appropriate gear to customers is a must. I would argue that the reason for a slump in high nic demand is because you are not selling the correct set-up to the right customer and you are not catering for existing customers. Not withstanding you are saying that there is no need for this strength of nic in the market. This clearly is not the case because those £1 stores can't keep it in stock, so someone is vaping it! Additionally the post from others also support this notion.
Yes you have got to make a profit to stay in business, but this should not be at the expense of those you are assisting.
Today new starters young and old are going to vape shops and leaving with sub ohm devices and nic levels between 3-6mg from the get go. This set-up is never going to fulfill most peoples nic requires without vaping high volumes of liquid. As a plausible consequence we are reading evidence of nic poisoning on this very forum from new vapers.
Owning a vape shop and selling appropriate gear to customers is a must. I would argue that the reason for a slump in high nic demand is because you are not selling the correct set-up to the right customer and you are not catering for existing customers. Not withstanding you are saying that there is no need for this strength of nic in the market. This clearly is not the case because those £1 stores can't keep it in stock, so someone is vaping it! Additionally the post from others also support this notion.
Yes you have got to make a profit to stay in business, but this should not be at the expense of those you are assisting.
It's because these dufus fucks are not trying to get off smoking they are trying to look cool blowing nar nar clouds.
This is an interesting point, but I must disagree. I guess I'm a misfit. I vape to quit, not chase clouds or flavor. I run an MVP 3 Pro 60W at 18.5W all day long. I haven't bought premade eliquid in close to 2 years now. I vape 3mg and find it to be perfectly satisfying. I'm a ex 30yr 1.5-2 ppd smoker. I started at 18mg in Protank Minis on an Ego twist battery. Within a week, I went to 12mg, and started there for over a year. When my last MVP2 died, I ordered the MVP3 and an iSub G tank. I had to drop down to 3 mg with this setup, 12mg was just too strong.
I do not think that starting off at 3 or 6mg on today's devices puts new vapers at risk of failure. I think a mod running over 15W with 6mg is actually better at delivering the required amount of nic than my old ego at 18mg was. They'll be fine.
I *did* spend the last 20 years (maybe more) smoking ultra-lights, and lights for 10 years before that. My last brand was Camel Turkish Silver, and before that it was Merit Ultra Lights for a very long time.
I still needed 18 mg to get me off the cigs, and would occasionally take some drags of WholeCig's 24 mg WTA when I was jonesing. After a while, I tried dropping to 12 and found it unsatisfying. So I mixed my 12 with 18 to get 15 and that's where I've been ever since. Could I cut back the nic somewhat now? Probably. Do I want to? No -- I'm entirely comfortable with where I am. I'm very much a moderate power MTL vaper. I have zero desire to blow huge clouds. Why on god's green earth would I want to fog up a room and annoy all the non-vapers/non-smokers I live and work with?
People are different, but 6mg is not going to get most smokers off cigs, especially not if they're starting out on low-powered gear and aren't DL'ing the vape.
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I guess. No idea why even 12mg made me so extremely nauseous -- using a cigalike. I did wind up going up to 10mg, using a Kayfun, but it was after I was off cigarettes completely.
Andria
You can't argue that sub ohm devices won't fulfill most people's nic requirements and in the same breath say that we're seeing evidence of nic poisoning from those same devices.
For beginning vapers, we have non-regulated evod megas and AIOs. We have non sub ohm tanks (CE6, iclear16, mini protank, and mini nautilus). We also have high ohm (mini protanks) and sub ohm (mini subtanks running 0.5 ohm coils) for people to try to see the difference themselves. I personally think it's better for people to start with higher ohm devices and that's what I point them toward but I'd say 90% of the people who try both go for the sub ohm stuff. There's also the factor that there's not such a huge price difference anymore between low- and high-powered setups. The evod mega (with 30 ml liquid) is $28 while the 75w Pico is $50 (again, with 30 ml liquid). Which would you go for?
So I don't think it's always fair to blame the stores for 'newbies' starting with sub-ohm devices. In my experience, that's what most people prefer when they try both options.
As someone who started vaping with DSE atomizers and cartridges, then 510 cartomizers, I would have jumped at the chance to get an AIO or a Ego One. A Kanger Subtank and a 40 watt mod would have been light years ahead of where I started, with 36mg in DSE atomizers with either tea bags for filler material or blue fluval foam. Those things held perhaps 10 drops and had to frequently be refilled.
seems like the writer could just buy some nic to keep on hand to up his dosage at will,, saving his posting for something more impactive & needed in vapeland.
while i agree it tends to take more than 6mg to get a smoker off of cigs and that i started at 24,, it would have only taken the b&m i started with to 'educate' me that it wont take long for the 12mg to likely satisfy me/nic cravings along with more education on the settings of any given mod they had just sold me to 'get me there' easier. i went from 24mg to 6 mg in a few weeks without trying,,tastebuds did that. and if it wasn't working, they could tell me about buying nic to up my dosage.............which i had to learn here on message boards.
in the end,, a shop has everything to gain with simple education and information.
i took my husband to the nicest b&m in my area trying to get him set up,, but they were too busy working on their 'cool' theme to help us,, we walked out after a 1/2 hour and went to some m&p shop,, where i do still buy drip tips,, gadgets,,, and look at the equipment,,,,,i always buy juice from them 1) because i like some of theirs 2) its the least i can do for their efforts
the very first b&m i started with got lots of my money 3 times a week on juice until they started getting real sloppy and couldn't be bothered with 'another customer'.......some sort of drama was going on and i entered at the wrong time.......thats how i found the ma&pa shop a few miles away
you forgot to add how wonderful the chinese juice was as well.....
I liked the blueberry, watermelon, greengage, and the green apple (after I sent them some jolly rancher green apple candies so theyd know what I wanted it to taste like). Kiwi wasn't too bad either.
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if it wasn't made by the two major brands then it tasted like shit and was likely made at a sketchy facility with even sketchier ingredients.
but if you look online and see a Chinese brand like Hangsen they have pictures of their lab and that shit is either on par or blows away the finest American eliquid labs.
Have you tried Hangsen juice? If so is it ok?
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It was decent when I used to get it a couple years back.
You will probably find some flavors that you like if you are in to a higher PG, more flavorful eliquid, and vape at lower watts with higher ohms.
When I was using the Itaste SVD or Vamo V2 with a Protank with a 2 ohm coil It was great at around 9 watts.
This will depend on the flavors and personal preference/taste just like American eliquid of course
If you are planning on ordering you may want to stick with something simple such as green apple or strawberry just so when you get it you will get an idea of how you react to the flavorings and PG/VG ratios.
I think fasttech has it at about half price of everywhere else.
Liqua eliquid is another very good brand of eliquid that makes a similar style of juice but with Italian flavorings
I liked liqua as well and they also make it in a lab that any American eliquid maker would dream of being in.
Thank you. I can get both brands in the UK. Found them at a good price too
Thinking back when I got into vaping I started at 24MG and moved up when I went DIY to 32 for atleast 6 months.
lowered the Nicotine for most people in vaping just makes them blow larger clouds therefore use more juice it makes complete
sense now for an industry that has become just as EVIL as the one that we all want to believe we moved away from Big Tobacco. I surely know I have disconnected from the community as a whole due to the way the Vaping industry has manifested.
lowered the Nicotine for most people in vaping just makes them blow larger clouds therefore use more juice it makes complete
sense now for an industry that has become just as EVIL as the one that we all want to believe we moved away from Big Tobacco. I surely know I have disconnected from the community as a whole due to the way the Vaping industry has manifested.
AndriaD
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I have too. I still want tight draw, high-PG, and low wattage -- I'm not trying to make a spectacle of myself or create weather, just stay off cigarettes. I do like great flavors, because that makes vaping so much BETTER than sucking on stinkweed, it's just no contest. But cigarette smoke is not very dense, so I have no need whatsoever to make clouds that look like whipped cream, and waste ungodly amounts of ejuice.
Andria
Happened to me also. Vaped at 9mg daily for 5 years with 2mls of 12 or 16mg strengh over 3days. When sold my sub ohm set up and 6mg juice 4 months ago. I now vape 48mg a day! Great for the juice makers!
I find this all rather interesting, though, there seems to be a risk of overgeneralizing.
I used vaping to quit smoking, but as I have found, it has never really been about nicotine for me. I enjoy the activity, the "nic fix" is essentially a byproduct.
Because of that, I have rather quickly been moving down in my nic levels. High nic/high ohm just didn't do it for me. I was only able to fully quit smoking by going subohm, and I did that at 6mg. Before, I was using anywhere from 24-32mg and was vaping AND smoking. I intend to go to 0mg soon enough, as I'm also looking to eliminate nicotine from my life.
I think there are just too many personal facets for the market to swing too harshly in any direction. Likewise, it seems silly to split into sides like the "real" vapers versus the "poseurs" based on equipment preference.
That said, cloud comps might be about the dumbest thing I've witnessed in my life.
I used vaping to quit smoking, but as I have found, it has never really been about nicotine for me. I enjoy the activity, the "nic fix" is essentially a byproduct.
Because of that, I have rather quickly been moving down in my nic levels. High nic/high ohm just didn't do it for me. I was only able to fully quit smoking by going subohm, and I did that at 6mg. Before, I was using anywhere from 24-32mg and was vaping AND smoking. I intend to go to 0mg soon enough, as I'm also looking to eliminate nicotine from my life.
I think there are just too many personal facets for the market to swing too harshly in any direction. Likewise, it seems silly to split into sides like the "real" vapers versus the "poseurs" based on equipment preference.
That said, cloud comps might be about the dumbest thing I've witnessed in my life.
Hello. My point is the same as that of the author of the article; one size does not fit all. And it seems like that is the way the industry is going and is loosing site of what vaping was all about on the first place. A nicotine replacement device. High nic/high ohm on mtl "tank" did work for me. Also low nic/ low ohm DL tank also works for me. However the my nic intake as gone up from 9mg daily to 48mg daily. The only reason it is at 48mg daily is due to time, nic monitoring & cost. Sub ohming for me is so satisfyingly that l feel as though l could do it all day. I wasn't told any of these things when l purchased my device. As of Nov in the EU e liquid is to be sold in 10ml bottles only. So l have to get my nic back down, thus back to MTL for me.I find this all rather interesting, though, there seems to be a risk of overgeneralizing.
I used vaping to quit smoking, but as I have found, it has never really been about nicotine for me. I enjoy the activity, the "nic fix" is essentially a byproduct.
Because of that, I have rather quickly been moving down in my nic levels. High nic/high ohm just didn't do it for me. I was only able to fully quit smoking by going subohm, and I did that at 6mg. Before, I was using anywhere from 24-32mg and was vaping AND smoking. I intend to go to 0mg soon enough, as I'm also looking to eliminate nicotine from my life.
I think there are just too many personal facets for the market to swing too harshly in any direction. Likewise, it seems silly to split into sides like the "real" vapers versus the "poseurs" based on equipment preference.
That said, cloud comps might be about the dumbest thing I've witnessed in my life.
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I totally get it!
It just seems like things like this happen from both "sides" when there is a whole spectrum in between. The high ohm/high mg can look at subohm as the bane of the industry while the low ohm/low(no) mg might wonder "what's the point without massive cloudz, bro?" I've seen plenty of both for the years I have watched the industry.
When I finally jumped in feet first, I found my own preference was a mix. I vape low ohm/low mg but also tend towards low wattage and flavor (currently on a goblin mini v2 @ .7ohm @ 24w @ 3mg).
I think there is a very real danger in picking sides based on arbitrary and meaningless distinctions. I completely agree about one size NOT fitting all, which is why I look at vaping beyond just a nicotine replacement device. I'm also not interested in clouds, which seems to put me at odds with expectations.
If I had continued to operate under the premise of either "no nic cloudz" vs "high mg tootle puffers" I would have never quit smoking.
So, I agree its important for the market to address the whole spectrum, as well as us doing the same as consumers. I think it would also be prudent to perceive vaping as something bigger than just a nicotine delivery system or a cloud factory.
For me at least, it will eventually be neither one.
AndriaD
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Yep. I don't care about clouds, I vape 85% PG. But I also use only 4mg nicotine. 2 ohm coils, at 10w. It's about not smoking, and nothing else -- even the great flavors are towards that end, because pretty much everything tastes better than tobacco!
It's harm reduction, not removal; I totally get that -- I have asthma, so inhaling anything other than air and asthma drugs is always going to present some sort of problem for me; by staying with low wattage and high resistance, and 85% PG, I lessen the impact of vaping on my lungs. The reduction in nicotine is mostly self-protective; nicotine isn't harmful, but if suddenly I couldn't get it, I probably wouldn't be too comfortable; with what I have in freezer, vaping my 5ml of 3-4mg daily can go on for the rest of my life. I'm 55, so if I live another 30 yrs, that's plenty.
Andria