5150sick
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Diacetyl in e-cigarettes — what we can really say (not much)
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stevegmu
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The article talks about 'normal vaping.' Is that vaping from 3 years ago, when 5ml of e liquid at 10 watts was the norm, or today, where 15 or more ml of 50+ watt vaping is the norm with new vapers? We really won't know, until we have years of never smoker vapers sub ohming large quantities of custards; their box mods veritably glued to their hands, when every other breath they take is a vape...
I think it's great some think DA, AP are benign, as we need lab rats, so we know one way or another...
I think it's great some think DA, AP are benign, as we need lab rats, so we know one way or another...
LOL... Naaa... He's obviously connected to a government agency, alphabet group, other political association, or a member of the education system. The group think is strong with this one, young padawan. Easily recognizable behavioral patterns give it away. One example being the 'industry standard' circular argument style which constantly deflects the course of discussion back to the same useless attacks, generalizations, or insults. It's meant to wear down the person with the opposing viewpoint until serious discussion ceases, at which point they declare it "settled". A "win".
There's assloads more DA in cigarettes. Wouldn't it be a more effective use of your time to go tilt that windmill at Altria's door? Their products are 95% more dangerous, AND have the aforementioned assloads more DA in them than e-liquid? Talk about a misappropriation of resources.
stevegmu
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Different temperatures, volumes, particulate size. Thee's no way to compare DA/AP in cigarettes to vaping... Does a filter in cigarettes trap DA/AP?
Precisely!!!
Now you're making MY point.
Let's take this from the top.
- The handful of known illnesses from DA were the result of being exposed to very high levels of DA in an environment that thousands of others were also in, but never had symptoms develop. This environment, where the only know illness were, is not related to smoking or vaping. Seems likely that there may have been an undiscovered commonality in the group of affected individuals. Allergy? Genetic issue? Other nutritional intake? Our brilliant government decides that the DA did it, and comes up with a "safe" level.
- DA is present in large quantities in cigarette smoke (less than the popcorn factory, but more than vapor). There have been NO reported cases of popcorn lung being caused by smoking. The levels of DA consumed by smokers regularly exceeds the "safe level" previously plucked out of thin air by some half witted government panel of stooges.
- Vaping comes along, and we find substantially lower levels of DA (than the popcorn factory or smoking). In this environment, there have been NO reported issues with popcorn lung. We can't compare it to the popcorn factory, or to smoking, for the same reasons that you provided. You were correct. Vaping can't be compared to the popcorn factory for sure, and while similar in mechanism of delivery into the body, also not comparable to smoking because of the lack of the other components of smoke, or the particulate fibers released by the filter and inhaled, as you pointed out .
stevegmu
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You seem to think it is the government which has brought the issue of Diacetyl in e-cigarettes to the forefront, but the reality is Diacetyl was recognized early on by vendors such as Halo as a substance which should not be used...
I'm quite bored with the subject. I don't care what others inhale. I hope many continue to inhale large quantities of it. I just don't want to unknowingly inhale it myself, which is why I believe 3rd party testing should be mandatory...
I'm quite bored with the subject. I don't care what others inhale. I hope many continue to inhale large quantities of it. I just don't want to unknowingly inhale it myself, which is why I believe 3rd party testing should be mandatory...
The way I have worked this out in my mind is that there are so many things we consume daily that if we truly knew what they were or the long term harm they caused we would be up in arms about that as well.
However, we live in a day and age where we do what we want because we want to and because we can.
Regardless of laws and regulations etc we are going to find a way to do what we want no matter the consequences, this is just the nature of mankind.
However, we live in a day and age where we do what we want because we want to and because we can.
Regardless of laws and regulations etc we are going to find a way to do what we want no matter the consequences, this is just the nature of mankind.
Personally, I am not worried about DA OR AP. I smoked for 25 years, so I poisoned myself over those years, FAR more than I ever will vaping.
And Steve's right. The vape industry (DIYers and manufactures) were the ones shitting themselves over it. I think it was blown WAY out of proportion.
And Steve's right. The vape industry (DIYers and manufactures) were the ones shitting themselves over it. I think it was blown WAY out of proportion.
5150sick
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" — the epidemiology is simply incapable of detecting small risks in a population of ex-smokers. Anyone choosing to vape should recognize this and make their decision based on it. Anyone who is very worried about what they are inhaling should probably just switch to snus or NRT, which are almost certainly slightly lower risk than vaping, rather than fall into the trap of believing that playing whack-a-mole with individual chemicals will change that."
I think Carl Phillips of CASAA hit the nail on the head.
There are trace amounts of diacetyl along with trace amounts of a dozen other "bad" chemicals in vaping.
If you can not deal with that then you may as well switch to snus or NRT then you won't have to deal with the minuscule risk.
Trying to get rid of this chemical then finding another one that is 750X less than in cigarettes to try to get rid of is just pointless as these chemicals are part of eliquid.
Deal with it or don't vape is the short and to the point answer.
I think Carl Phillips of CASAA hit the nail on the head.
There are trace amounts of diacetyl along with trace amounts of a dozen other "bad" chemicals in vaping.
If you can not deal with that then you may as well switch to snus or NRT then you won't have to deal with the minuscule risk.
Trying to get rid of this chemical then finding another one that is 750X less than in cigarettes to try to get rid of is just pointless as these chemicals are part of eliquid.
Deal with it or don't vape is the short and to the point answer.
So... Wouldn't the best for everyone involved if you simply took a couple of minutes to look online to find one of the many vendors that test and publish the results? So many do now. Just buy from them, and avoid the rest... Everyone that 'cares' should.
I've been vaping for 2 1/4 years now, and I have only bought about 15 bottles of vendor e liquid, and they were all 10 or 15ml bottles. I know exactly what I have been vaping. Others don't, but you can't fix stupid.
5150sick
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I didn't realize we were supposed to check in and out with you... Sorry.He's on vacation at the moment. Check back in 28 days.
5150sick
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you don't but I didn't want you to wonder why he didn't respond.I didn't realize we were supposed to check in and out with you... Sorry.
5150sick
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Vanilla custard v1 is my favorite vanilla and my favorite custard flavor.... nothing quite like it (for me) and one of the few flavors i order the large bottle of and need to have a backup of.
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
5150sick
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I search far and wide for FA Sweet Cream (non DX) to use because the DX (diketone free) version is shit and it ruins my mixes.
FA only has only Fresh Cream ( No Sweet ) and while it is diketone free, I'm guessing you maybe meant TFA?
5150sick
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Yes, Sorry The TFA Sweet Cream is the one that I dislike in DX.
I was mistaken about the FA part.
I am not sure what it is.
It almost has a stale milk / rotten cheese smell that turns me off.
I really can not use it because of this foul odor that I notice.
I am sure other (maybe even most) people find it to be an acceptable replacement.
I would love to find a diketone free sweet cream that doesn't have this foul (to me) odor but I haven't yet.
I am open for suggestions though if you know of any please let me know.
A small sample size flavor vial is only a few bucks so it would be worth a try.
Thanks
5150sick
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The shitty part is a lot of vendors don't mention the difference.
They may be selling the DX but they just list it as TFA Sweet Cream and then they send the Sweet Cream DX.
The only way to be sure is to either to find a vendor who sells both or buy a samlpe size vial and see what they send.
This is making the original version more and more difficult to find.
They may be selling the DX but they just list it as TFA Sweet Cream and then they send the Sweet Cream DX.
The only way to be sure is to either to find a vendor who sells both or buy a samlpe size vial and see what they send.
This is making the original version more and more difficult to find.
Yes, Sorry The TFA Sweet Cream is the one that I dislike in DX.
I was mistaken about the FA part.
I am not sure what it is.
It almost has a stale milk / rotten cheese smell that turns me off.
I really can not use it because of this foul odor that I notice.
I am sure other (maybe even most) people find it to be an acceptable replacement.
I would love to find a diketone free sweet cream that doesn't have this foul (to me) odor but I haven't yet.
I am open for suggestions though if you know of any please let me know.
A small sample size flavor vial is only a few bucks so it would be worth a try.
Thanks
It might be Butyric Acid that is having that effect on you ... it is sometimes used in absence of Acetoin and Acetyl Propionyl and some people have mentioned it smelling exactly as you have. It does appear that TFA is now using it in their Sweet Cream ( they only list one version ).
FA Fresh Cream is pretty good but it doesn't really add much sweetness. CAP Sweet Cream is diketone free but I don't know for sure if uses Butyric Acid or not since they don't disclose to that level. It might be worth trying either or both of those if you haven't already since it doesn't appear that TFA is offering both versions of Sweet Cream any longer, at least not from what I could see.
There are probably other versions out there too but I haven't tried any of them. Anybody else know of any good ones?
5150sick
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I had a feeling it was Butyric Acid since I have heard that after the DA/AP thing a lot of the flavor vendors switched over to it.
I also had heard from other vapers that it smells kind of like sweaty feet but some vapers don't even notice it.
I got a different but equally foul odor from it but since it was a different odor than others had described it I didn't want to speculate on what it was.
So it may be possible that when I do find the non DX version of TFA Sweet Cream it could just be old stock?
Thank you for all of your help
lol, exactly and I've heard other less than pleasant descriptions of it as well but I'll refrain from mentioning them here.
Actually, it appears I was wrong about them not making both versions ... I was searching through the components listings to try and find out how much BA they were using in DX Sweet Cream and only found the one listing. Apparently they haven't released that information for the DX version so it wasn't present in the list I was using. However I did find the actual DX version of the flavor as well as the original listed for sale so they still must be making both versions.
Upon further investigation, it seems they haven't released the breakdowns on any of the reformulated versions ( DX ) so the one I was looking at was actually the original one. That means that it too has BA in it ( less than 1% ) so I suspect for the DX version they increased the BA somewhat substantially to make up for the Acetoin that they removed; not necessarily in equal measures however. I can't confirm that for the reasons stated above but that would be my guess.
For some reason BCV only shows the original version ( apparently since it is listed with a warning for containing Acetoin ) as being available yet ECX offers both versions. You should be able to get it from either but since ECX shows both versions, I'd probably try ordering from them ... here is a link for it from ECX :
http://www.ecigexpress.com/diy-e-li...eet-flavors/sweet-cream-flavor-signature.html
The Signature brand is just ECX re-branded TFA; it is still the same stuff. I did notice they only have it available in the 30ml size but it's still pretty reasonably priced at only 3.98$.