Would you let your kids vape?

[Cacuqecig]

Would you let your kids vape?

All vapers, or at least most of them, claim, and from their hearts believe, that vaping is harmless, that even if it's potentially detrimental to health, the effects have not yet been identified, or are most unlikely to be anything serious. All vapers are aware of the advantages that E-cigarette has over combustible cigarette, which in fact constitute their corner stone motivation to convert to vaping from smoking.

It is certainly indelicate to vape while other people's kids are around, because parents may not want their kids to breath in vaporized PG, VG, and who knows what, however allegedly harmless they might be. Some vapers think these parents overreact and assert that they themselves would generously and gladly expose their own kids to clouds at an early age, and that they would not mind if their kids start vaping. Now would they really? How far does this go?

Let's look into some of the reasons that their confidence answers to. They might reason like this: I'd rather my kids breath in E-cig vapor than cigarette smoke; or that early knowledge of vaping may somehow hinder kids from taking up smoking later, or transform them from smokers to vapers if they are already smoking. I get it. E-cig vapor is safer than cigarette smoke, and educational presentation may indeed be beneficial to the yet-ignorant minds. But how far does this go? Does it mean that vapers would consciously allow their underaged kids to vape? Does it go as far as intentionally teaching their kids to vape?

This is such a controversial question that I believe everyone would have something to say about, and a different one. We all have diverse levels of tolerance with regard to how much irregularity our kids should be exposed to, and the standard we apply to ourselves are often at variance with that which we enforce on our kids. We do things like hangover or going to wild parties, but that doesn't mean we'll be comfortable with our kids doing these. We may take risks in our education and careers, but often we only want our kids to go about life in the safe way. Are we hypocrites because of this? By no means! But that does point out the fact that in some areas, the instinct to protect our kids overpowers deep conviction and sound theology, and that we'd rather our kids to experience less of the tumults and violence of the world even though we may find the same things thrilling, or beneficial.

How far does this go? Would we really allow our kids to vape when they are underaged? Would we teach them how to vape for the said sake of forestallment of future smoking? How far would you go?

 

[Polargirl]

Would you let your kids vape?

All vapers, or at least most of them, claim, and from their hearts believe, that vaping is harmless, that even if it's potentially detrimental to health, the effects have not yet been identified, or are most unlikely to be anything serious. All vapers are aware of the advantages that E-cigarette has over combustible cigarette, which in fact constitute their corner stone motivation to convert to vaping from smoking.

It is certainly indelicate to vape while other people's kids are around, because parents may not want their kids to breath in vaporized PG, VG, and who knows what, however allegedly harmless they might be. Some vapers think these parents overreact and assert that they themselves would generously and gladly expose their own kids to clouds at an early age, and that they would not mind if their kids start vaping. Now would they really? How far does this go?

Let's look into some of the reasons that their confidence answers to. They might reason like this: I'd rather my kids breath in E-cig vapor than cigarette smoke; or that early knowledge of vaping may somehow hinder kids from taking up smoking later, or transform them from smokers to vapers if they are already smoking. I get it. E-cig vapor is safer than cigarette smoke, and educational presentation may indeed be beneficial to the yet-ignorant minds. But how far does this go? Does it mean that vapers would consciously allow their underaged kids to vape? Does it go as far as intentionally teaching their kids to vape?

This is such a controversial question that I believe everyone would have something to say about, and a different one. We all have diverse levels of tolerance with regard to how much irregularity our kids should be exposed to, and the standard we apply to ourselves are often at variance with that which we enforce on our kids. We do things like hangover or going to wild parties, but that doesn't mean we'll be comfortable with our kids doing these. We may take risks in our education and careers, but often we only want our kids to go about life in the safe way. Are we hypocrites because of this? By no means! But that does point out the fact that in some areas, the instinct to protect our kids overpowers deep conviction and sound theology, and that we'd rather our kids to experience less of the tumults and violence of the world even though we may find the same things thrilling, or beneficial.

How far does this go? Would we really allow our kids to vape when they are underaged? Would we teach them how to vape for the said sake of forestallment of future smoking? How far would you go?

I very much doubt many parents would let their kids vape since it still is enabling addiction to nicotine. Vaping is harm reduction not elimination. There isn't much point to begin vaping 0 nicotine juices. They exist for people who wean themselves off the physical but not phycological addiction.

The only exception might be if their kids are already addicted to tobacco because again, it is harm reduction but not elimination.

 

[John C]

99% of vapers who actually know even the most basic vape knowledge would say that vaping is not 100% safe. I think the vast majority consider it a safer alternative to cigarettes etc. So even with the reduction in risk, there is still a risk there, so no, I would not -- although one puff would be harmless, IMO. Kind of like letting one have a sip of beer, or a sip of wine. But that's just me.

 

[hellcatrydr]

I very much doubt many parents would let their kids vape since it still is enabling addiction to nicotine.

Mine have expressed regret that they forbade me to run with scissors...

 

[AndriaD]

I certainly would allow it, if I knew my child was interested in or willing to smoke cigarettes -- and yes, I'd help that underage kid to vape, if the alternative was smoking. Forbidding things to teenagers NEVER works; it's far better to permit, and retain some small amount of control, even if that control is only teaching the correct and safe way to do it. When our son was 16, I told my husband to put condoms in the bathroom drawer, because teenagers like to experiment, and I wanted mine to be safe more than I wanted to 'safeguard his chastity.' Being a rigid authoritarian does NOTHING except make your child keep secrets from you -- I always far preferred for mine to trust me with the truth.

As it happens, that son is now 29, and *does* vape, because I taught him how, because smoking at ANY age is stupid and dangerous -- and he knew if it worked to help a 39-yr smoker lay down cigarettes and LEAVE THEM DOWN, it could certainly work for him, with his <10-yr habit.

Andria

 

[Polargirl]

I certainly would allow it, if I knew my child was interested in or willing to smoke cigarettes -- and yes, I'd help that underage kid to vape, if the alternative was smoking. Forbidding things to teenagers NEVER works; it's far better to permit, and retain some small amount of control, even if that control is only teaching the correct and safe way to do it. When our son was 16, I told my husband to put condoms in the bathroom drawer, because teenagers like to experiment, and I wanted mine to be safe more than I wanted to 'safeguard his chastity.' Being a rigid authoritarian does NOTHING except make your child keep secrets from you -- I always far preferred for mine to trust me with the truth.

As it happens, that son is now 29, and *does* vape, because I taught him how, because smoking at ANY age is stupid and dangerous -- and he knew if it worked to help a 39-yr smoker lay down cigarettes and LEAVE THEM DOWN, it could certainly work for him, with his <10-yr habit.

Andria

Condoms, like vaping, is harm reduction but not elimination.

Sex is nearly a certainty but nicotine not necessarily. Being authoritarian is worse than futile; it is counterproductive.

 

[AndriaD]

Condoms, like vaping, is harm reduction but not elimination.

Sex is nearly a certainty but nicotine not necessarily. Being authoritarian is worse than futile; it is counterproductive.

It surely is. If my mother forbade me from doing something, that was the very first thing I was going to go do. But nicotine is no more harmful than caffeine, and teens drink oceans of that. It's also no more addictive than caffeine, to someone who has never smoked tobacco.

Andria

 

[Polargirl]

It surely is. If my mother forbade me from doing something, that was the very first thing I was going to go do. But nicotine is no more harmful than caffeine, and teens drink oceans of that. It's also no more addictive than caffeine, to someone who has never smoked tobacco.

Andria

Nicotine does have physical withdrawal symptoms that caffeine doesn't. Sure, nicotine isn't c*caine or m**hamphetamine or anything psychoactive but it is a tad bit more than caffeine.

When it comes down to it, it is a 'fight' that a parent won't win nor worth engaging in the first place.

 

[inspects]

It surely is. If my mother forbade me from doing something, that was the very first thing I was going to go do. But nicotine is no more harmful than caffeine, and teens drink oceans of that. It's also no more addictive than caffeine, to someone who has never smoked tobacco.

Andria

^^THIS^^...it has been proven over and over nicotine in and of itself is not additive to people who haven't been smokers (I don't care what the alphabet soup agencies may claim)....it's the other 3,999 chemicals in cigarettes which are VERY addicting.

 

[John C]

^^THIS^^...it has been proven over and over nicotine in and of itself is not additive to people who haven't been smokers (I don't care what the alphabet soup agencies may claim)....it's the other 3,999 chemicals in cigarettes which are VERY addicting.

I guess I'd be a test subject for this. I only smoked the occasional cigar before vaping. I am one of the rarities that started vaping without smoking beforehand, and therefore I did not use it as a smoking cessation technique and was not addicted to tobacco.

I started because I have always been a bit of a tobacco junkie (despite only having the occasional cigar) and vaping gave me the chance to consume that beautiful taste/smell of non-ignited tobacco, which is what I always wanted even when smoking cigars. I then included many other flavors like fruit, etc. I probably shouldn't have started vaping with nicotine, but whatever, its done now. 2.5 years later, I don't really know if I am addicted, I have always had something to vape. I do know if I don't vape after a few hours after waking up, I really want to, like a thirst or hunger. Don't know if that's addiction to nic though.

 

[bobnat]

There seems to be an implicit belief that seems to show up again and again. But first we need to untangle the OP first.

Is the problem with the nicotine or with the vapor? He doesn't state that but it's been assumed by subsequent posters that it's the nicotine.

So, the question then would be is nicotine harmful to just children, just adults or both?

When the world children is used, it means every being from the age of 0-12. Most kids are hitting puberty by 13 so they're not children anymore. I'm not sure everyone would agree with this, but there has to be a clear, agreed upon definition of what a child is or otherwise it becomes an exercise in verbal masturbation.

Is it the vapor that is harmful? Is it harmful to just children, just adults, or both? As far as I've seen, most, if not all, of the literature discusses the effects on adults. Certainly, it would be immoral and unethical to force children to vape in order to test its effects. So, essentially, there is no way we can directly measure or ascertain the effects of vaping on children. Trying to do so using second-hand vapor would be ineffective and unscientific. It's been studied and stated that there aren't any side-stream emissions from vapor. If we believe the literature to date, then there is not any second-hand effect at all. Therefore, when speaking of potential negative effects of vaping on children, it would have to be IF they vaped themselves.

Now here's the implicit belief/assumption I spoke of earlier. It is that people believe that children would be more susceptible to any ill effects of vaping than adults. We do know that is true for some diseases such as cholera. Keep in mind there is a difference between environmental and genetic diseases. I am not an MD and I don't have the answer to this question. But I certainly would like to see something that addresses it.

Think of smoking for a moment. Many of us began smoking when we were very young. I first smoked when I was 13. Was I more susceptible to all the diseases attributed to smoking than a 25 year old? If so, why aren't more people developing lung and heart diseases at an earlier age if their bodies are supposedly more susceptible? Again, I don't know the answers, but has anyone proven anything concerning this? If so, I'd like to see it.

The US has gone overboard on the protect the children issue. Our kids are soft and not very resourceful because they've been protected by too many against too many things. I'm not suggesting we deliberately expose them to any known harm, but they should have the opportunity to expose themselves to certain things that the adults are trying to stop. The problem is that very little thinking has gone into the protect the children stance. It is driven by unstated beliefs and assumptions that are unexamined in any depth. We have to stop fearing everything because others say we should.

I vape around my kids in the car and the house. I never did that with cigarettes. If it was proven to me tomorrow that doing so is harmful to my kids, then I'd stop immediately. To date nothing has remotely come close to proving it is dangerous to anyone as a secondhand effect.

Finally, if someone believes that second hand vaping is harmful to children, then why don't they believe it is so for adults? It is because they really haven't thought about it. I would like to see a list of environmental factors that affect solely children. I imagine that it would be quite short, it at all. What's dangerous for an adult should be dangerous for a child and vice-versa. So, if someone says to me that I shouldn't vape around children, then they should believe I shouldn't vape around anyone. I've attempted to engage a few people on these forums on this issue but no one has done so to date. I'm very open minded and would like to see some evidence, not opinions, that vaping is harmful to children. I refuse to go through life fearing every unknown in my life. If I did so, I'd be neurotic and on drugs. My kids would be as well and I will not let that happen.

 

[AndriaD]

I guess I'd be a test subject for this. I only smoked the occasional cigar before vaping. I am one of the rarities that started vaping without smoking beforehand, and therefore I did not use it as a smoking cessation technique and was not addicted to tobacco.

I started because I have always been a bit of a tobacco junkie (despite only having the occasional cigar) and vaping gave me the chance to consume that beautiful taste/smell of non-ignited tobacco, which is what I always wanted even when smoking cigars. I then included many other flavors like fruit, etc. I probably shouldn't have started vaping with nicotine, but whatever, its done now. 2.5 years later, I don't really know if I am addicted, I have always had something to vape. I do know if I don't vape after a few hours after waking up, I really want to, like a thirst or hunger. Don't know if that's addiction to nic though.

No, you're not a test subject at all -- the qualification is "someone who has NEVER smoked tobacco." Once you have ever smoked it in any form, that bell can't be unrung. You might be less prone to tobacco and/or nicotine addiction than someone who smoked cigarettes, but the crucial confluence of nicotine+dopamine+MAOIs (always present in tobacco smoke) *has* been made.

Andria

 

[Khassy]

I've encouraged my kids to vape. Of course, they're all of adult age and the older one smoked. But the younger one never has and uses my 0mg juice.

 

[AndriaD]

The US has gone overboard on the protect the children issue. Our kids are soft and not very resourceful because they've been protected by too many against too many things. I'm not suggesting we deliberately expose them to any known harm, but they should have the opportunity to expose themselves to certain things that the adults are trying to stop. The problem is that very little thinking has gone into the protect the children stance. It is driven by unstated beliefs and assumptions that are unexamined in any depth. We have to stop fearing everything because others say we should.

This EXACTLY. It hasn't been thought about at all, except as an emotionally-charged stick which TPTB can use to bludgeon people over the head and get them to do whatever TPTB want them to -- a Pavlovian response -- "think of the cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeldrun!"

I vape around my kids in the car and the house. I never did that with cigarettes. If it was proven to me tomorrow that doing so is harmful to my kids, then I'd stop immediately. To date nothing has remotely come close to proving it is dangerous to anyone as a secondhand effect.

I smoked around my son from birth onwards, because everyone -- well, pretty much EVERYONE, with a very few exceptions -- smoked around me when I was a child, and I'm certainly not the only 50+ that is true of -- because EVERYONE with a very few exceptions used to smoke pretty much everywhere! And none of us grew third eyes or extra appendages or retroactively aborted. I stopped smoking in the house when he was 9, because he was missing a lot of school to respiratory issues -- and that helped him immensely, no longer *living* in a cloud of smoke... but I merely went out to the porch, and I still smoked in the car, because me driving without smoking was a far worse hazard to him and everyone around me than merely sitting in a vehicle -- with opened window -- where there was cigarette smoke. If he had an issue with it at any given time, I threw the cigarette out, and got hurriedly to wherever I was going so I could smoke -- you see how that could easily be a hazard, that hurrying while driving, thinking of not much but getting that cigarette.

Your statement about people not thinking it through is exactly the problem -- 90% of humans don't even know how; they let the hot-button phrases push them around like those Pavlovian dogs-- "think of the cheeeeeeldrun!" and imagine themselves virtuous because of it, when in fact they're nothing but empty-headed hat-racks, the maaaaaaaases that TPTB push around at their whim.

Andria

 

[John C]

No, you're not a test subject at all -- the qualification is "someone who has NEVER smoked tobacco." Once you have ever smoked it in any form, that bell can't be unrung. You might be less prone to tobacco and/or nicotine addiction than someone who smoked cigarettes, but the crucial confluence of nicotine+dopamine+MAOIs (always present in tobacco smoke) *has* been made.

Andria

Would like to see any sources you have on this. Interesting topic.

 

[UncleRJ]

Speaking only for Me, Myself and I, I still feel that vaping is for the original group of people it was intended for.

Smokers dreaming of being Ex-Smokers.

If I had not smoked, I would have never got into vaping in the first place.

But if I still had kids in my house and I caught them vaping, I would update the old days and make them vape a full 30 ml bottle of 0 Nic 100% PG Crab Flavored E-Liquid (any of you remember that crap?) on a sub-ohm coil at 50 watts.

 

[AndriaD]

Would like to see any sources you have on this. Interesting topic.

https://rodutobaccotruth.blogspot.com/
http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/
http://www.clivebates.com/
https://antithrlies.com/
http://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/
http://www.ecigarette-research.com/web/
http://www.ecigarette-politics.com/

I probably read it at one of those places -- if you hunt for it at those sites, you can probably find it too. My name isn't google.

Andria

 

[John C]

https://rodutobaccotruth.blogspot.com/
http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/
http://www.clivebates.com/
https://antithrlies.com/
http://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/
http://www.ecigarette-research.com/web/
http://www.ecigarette-politics.com/

I probably read it at one of those places -- if you hunt for it at those sites, you can probably find it too. My name isn't google.

Andria

I know your name isn't google, but making a claim like you did, and having someone ask for a source, isn't an unusual thing. I'm not digging through all of those sites just to substantiate your claim.

 

[AndriaD]

I know your name isn't google, but making a claim like you did, and having someone ask for a source, isn't an unusual thing. I'm not digging through all of those sites just to substantiate your claim.

Ok, whatever. Your loss. It's not "MY claim" -- I don't just make shit up so I can post fantabulous shit online -- it's in those links. You may not believe it, but if you don't read it for yourself, I guess you'll never really know, and will continue to post nonsense about "nicotine is addictive", when at most, it's only mildly habit-forming, and hardly at all to someone who's never smoked.

Andria

 

[SteveS45]

 

[John C]

will continue to post nonsense about "nicotine is addictive", when at most, it's only mildly habit-forming, and hardly at all to someone who's never smoked. Andria

lol fair enough

 

[Man in the Iron Mask]

Won't let my kids do any of that. If they can do without something, that something doesn't have to complicate their life.

 

[skt239]

I'm not going to let my daughter do anything but go to school and study. After she's won a nobel peace prize and been to space, she can do whatever she wants. Yup, I got this whole parenting thing figured out.

 

[pizzadave80]

I guess I'd be a test subject for this. I only smoked the occasional cigar before vaping. I am one of the rarities that started vaping without smoking beforehand, and therefore I did not use it as a smoking cessation technique and was not addicted to tobacco.

I started because I have always been a bit of a tobacco junkie (despite only having the occasional cigar) and vaping gave me the chance to consume that beautiful taste/smell of non-ignited tobacco, which is what I always wanted even when smoking cigars. I then included many other flavors like fruit, etc. I probably shouldn't have started vaping with nicotine, but whatever, its done now. 2.5 years later, I don't really know if I am addicted, I have always had something to vape. I do know if I don't vape after a few hours after waking up, I really want to, like a thirst or hunger. Don't know if that's addiction to nic though.

I am just like you. I vape because I used to have the occasional cigar or chewing tobacco. I got to try some other people's vapes and decided to try it. I got caught up in the hobby more than anything, however I have been to places where I felt people would be annoyed with vaping so I didn't vape for like 2 days in a row....didnt really bother me. I just enjoy the tech, the flavor, and the people! I normally vape a 3mg nic....but sometimes I buy zero, I just find that I chain vape it way too hard because there's no buzz or feeling of being "full" like I get with nic. It does help me chill out when I'm stressed and I'll take that any day!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[John C]

I am just like you. I vape because I used to have the occasional cigar or chewing tobacco. I got to try some other people's vapes and decided to try it. I got caught up in the hobby more than anything, however I have been to places where I felt people would be annoyed with vaping so I didn't vape for like 2 days in a row....didnt really bother me. I just enjoy the tech, the flavor, and the people! I normally vape a 3mg nic....but sometimes I buy zero, I just find that I chain vape it way too hard because there's no buzz or feeling of being "full" like I get with nic. It does help me chill out when I'm stressed and I'll take that any day!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Pizza, thanks for your thoughtful response. It seems to be different for different people, although it could also rely on frequency of the vaping. I know I started vaping 2 and a half years ago, but for 2 years now I have never gone more than half a day without vaping. And I work from home, so I am home a lot, so I vape whenever I want -- and I typically have vaped a lot over those two+ years. So possibly my frequency of use has also contributed to a possibility of addiction.

I have never cared if I was addicted or not. I cared so little about nicotine in the beginning that frankly I never even thought to vape 0-nic juice at first, though I probably should have. So I certainly do not want to be addicted to it, nor do I care that much if I am or am not. I'm just giving my two cents.

I can say, with some certainty, that for me, at this point, if I go several waking hours without it, I crave it -- and as I said earlier, it is much like being thirsty or hungry in my case. After I vape after these periods, I almost feel like I just drank a big bottle of water after being thirsty.

But I am with you on those other points -- the tech, the hobby, the collection bug -- they all have hit me. 99% of the people are also great people to chat with, trade with, etc. Rarely do you see so much giving and PIFing in other communities!