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WHO’s afraid of vaping

AndriaD

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That's total bullshit! It should NOT be considered the same as a foul and deadly habit that kills millions every year! It should be given away for free to anyone with the slightest interest in quitting that foul and deadly habit!

What WHO is really afraid of is declining tobacco-tax revenues. And also that people might actually live longer and demand more from their gov't bullies, than just more bullying in the name of some absurd puritan mindset that serves NOBODY... except those with a vested interest in continuing that foul and deadly habit... and probably undertakers.

Andria
 
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MannyScoot

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That's total bullshit! It should NOT be considered the same as a foul and deadly habit that kills millions every year! It should be given away for free to anyone with the slightest interest in quitting that foul and deadly habit!

What WHO is really afraid of is declining tobacco-tax revenues. And also that people might actually live longer and demand more from their gov't bullies, than just more bullying in the name of some absurb puritan mindset that serves NOBODY... except those with a vested interest in continuing that foul and deadly habit... and probably undertakers.

Andria
Nicotine is involved.... It should be regulated and controlled..... And kept away from minors..... Nicotine is as addictive as cigarettes..... Only adults should vape.

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r055co

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Nicotine is involved.... It should be regulated and controlled..... And kept away from minors..... Nicotine is as addictive as cigarettes..... Only adults should vape.

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So where's the warning labels and regulations like age restrictions on Potatoes, Tomatoes, Eggplant, Broccoli, Cauliflower etc?

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MannyScoot

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So where's the warning labels and regulations like age restrictions on Potatoes, Tomatoes, Eggplant, Broccoli, Cauliflower etc?

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If cigarettes are now for 21 year olds in most of the country why not an addictive chemical that's being labeled and pushed on young people.

We are older now and went from Co***** to Rogaine..... Protection of minors is essentially, so it it's taxed, and controlled, and ejuice manufactured in a FDA or USDA facility more power to it......

Sometimes I wonder who made the ejuice I vape and what quality ingredients are used, and mainly what I'm pumping into my lungs ?

So regulations have been in existence for years..... Even when the government saw what alcohol was doing to society.....

I see commercials on TV where beer is being pushed by showing young people at the beach getting drunk...... Is that where we are heading a community of people that do what ever they feel like.......

Children should not be given anything addictive....... 18 years old is acceptable, it's when you can make legal decisions, so 21 years old is taking it too far......



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AndriaD

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Nicotine is involved.... It should be regulated and controlled..... And kept away from minors..... Nicotine is as addictive as cigarettes..... Only adults should vape.

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Oh, so those teens who already smoke are just cursed to keep smoking until they're 18??? That's fucking STUPID! Nicotine is no more dangerous OR addictive than those damn energy drinks and "chai lattes" that teens drink down like fucking mother's milk!

Nicotine isn't dangerous... SMOKING is dangerous!!!!!! Only total morons conflate the two!

Andria
 

AndriaD

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Sometimes I wonder who made the ejuice I vape and what quality ingredients are used, and mainly what I'm pumping into my lungs ?

That's VERY EASY to fix. MAKE YOUR OWN!!!!!!!!!!

Andria
 

bobnat

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Nicotine is involved.... It should be regulated and controlled..... And kept away from minors..... Nicotine is as addictive as cigarettes..... Only adults should vape.

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You need to do some reading on nicotine because your understanding of it is incomplete.
 

r055co

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If cigarettes are now for 21 year olds in most of the country why not an addictive chemical that's being labeled and pushed on young people.

We are older now and went from C*caine to Rogaine..... Protection of minors is essentially, so it it's taxed, and controlled, and ejuice manufactured in a FDA or USDA facility more power to it......

Sometimes I wonder who made the ejuice I vape and what quality ingredients are used, and mainly what I'm pumping into my lungs ?

So regulations have been in existence for years..... Even when the government saw what alcohol was doing to society.....

I see commercials on TV where beer is being pushed by showing young people at the beach getting drunk...... Is that where we are heading a community of people that do what ever they feel like.......

Children should not be given anything addictive....... 18 years old is acceptable, it's when you can make legal decisions, so 21 years old is taking it too far......



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So Broccoli, Cauliflower, Tomatoes, Potatoes, Gooseberry's, and many other foods contain Nicotine should be restricted to 21 year olds eh?

As for shit that is restricted to 21, when is Voting, registration for the Draft, Military Service, Age of Consent, being tried as an Adult in Court, etc. going to be raised to 21?

Energy Drinks, Coffee, Cola, etc. along with anything that contains Sugar all contain addictive chemicals you support bans, punitive taxation on them too?

Come on Manny pull your head out.
 

SteveS45

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If cigarettes are now for 21 year olds in most of the country why not an addictive chemical that's being labeled and pushed on young people.

E-Cigarette sales are restricted already don't you see the age confirmations on every Website? Even Zero Nicotine e-Liquids are considered a Tobacco product along with coils and the PV/MOD's.
 

f1r3b1rd

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Personally I think that we as vapors should follow the same public protocol and social standards as smokers. Not for any reason other than respect for fellow humans.

I also think that yes, we should be regulated in similar ways as smokers. Not banned, nor taxed - nothing banned

NOT for any reason other than the fact that:
we started vaping to REPLACE cigarettes, this simple fact also means that most of us were old enough to understand some simple things that MOST kids won’t. Ie, the risk and math involved. Let’s take mechmods and ohms law. I’d like to think that any reasonable person wouldn’t expect a 15 year old to have neither the maturity, knowledge or skill set involved in maintaining or safely using a mech. Not there there is any age when that happens, but it would certainly help mitigate, ensure or limit the amount of times that someone’s push the limits beyond what they can handle. It would also help make sure the maturity not to make our image worse to the likes of the fda.
While I think regulation as to age of purchase and the like is warranted, I certainly think taxation is not. This is certainly not a dangerous substance on par with cigarettes, if that is our standard of comparison; hence, taxation should be a non-starter. A simple age check to make sure someone has a modicum of understanding for safety reasons should be.

As per e-liquid, if the liquid is 95% safer than a tobacco stick, why should a tax or any other regulation, outside of child safety caps and candy labels be necessary? I think the tobacco product part is bullshit. Show me the tobacco?
 

AndriaD

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Let’s take mechmods and ohms law. I’d like to think that any reasonable person wouldn’t expect a 15 year old to have neither the maturity, knowledge or skill set involved in maintaining or safely using a mech.

That's a good point. I mentioned around here recently that I sold my old iStick30 a couple yrs ago; I sold it very cheaply to a 16 yr old who was tired of the dick-measuring among his peers to have the most awesome clouds, using mechs, and he got tired of it after his mech set his backpack on fire -- all he wanted was a way to KEEP FROM SMOKING -- because his moronic then-teenager cousin thought it was funny to get him to smoke when he was 8 yrs old, so at 16 he already had an 8 year smoking habit that he desperately wanted to get rid of. And yes, his mother was aware -- he lived way at the other end of my street, about a half-mile away, so she would drive him down and sit waiting in the car when he came to buy some eliquid -- which he could no longer buy in stores, after 2016. That kid is 18 now... and quit vaping last year, having successfully freed himself from smoking, and deciding that he had no real reason or desire to keep vaping.

THAT is why I think it's fucking stupid to make it illegal for teens to vape. Because a) some teens already smoke, and need a safe way to quit without suffering, the same as adults do; b) teens will ALWAYS try new things, and it's far better for them to try vaping, than smoking -- it'll be much easier for them to later ditch a vaping habit, than a smoking habit -- they might have a mild dependency on nicotine, the same as many teens have for caffeine, but getting free of that sort of mild dependency is MUCH easier than trying to un-ring the bell called smoking -- and safer for their bodies too, since nicotine is no worse for them than caffeine, AND vaping doesn't give them all those toxins and poisons that they would get from smoking.

Let's quit trying to follow some ridiculous puritan doctrine and FACE REALITY -- vaping is safer for EVERYONE than smoking.

Andria
 

bobnat

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Here's the thing to consider. Throughout virtually all of human existence teenagers weren't overprotected from the world. Fourteen year olds went off to war, had kids, and worked their asses off just like adults. We underestimate their abilities, both physical and intellectually. Look at many college kids today, they're helpless because they were brought up that way.

Many of us older folks here weren't like that. I've been on my own since I joined the military at 17 and my first job was working at the age of 12, putting in 10 hours a day with my father. For my generation, and every one before, that was normal.

The best thing we could do for the USA is to STOP protecting the kids so much. They need freedom to make choices, both good and bad, that's how learning and maturity come about. This stupid dependence on the government to make the world a better and safer place just breeds incompetence and dependency. Yes, the gov't serves its purpose in overseeing things such as roads, schools, public works, etc. But the government is ill-suited to be in the morals, values and common sense business. That is the province of parents and guardians.
 

r055co

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Here's the thing to consider. Throughout virtually all of human existence teenagers weren't overprotected from the world. Fourteen year olds went off to war, had kids, and worked their asses off just like adults. We underestimate their abilities, both physical and intellectually. Look at many college kids today, they're helpless because they were brought up that way.

Many of us older folks here weren't like that. I've been on my own since I joined the military at 17 and my first job was working at the age of 12, putting in 10 hours a day with my father. For my generation, and every one before, that was normal.

The best thing we could do for the USA is to STOP protecting the kids so much. They need freedom to make choices, both good and bad, that's how learning and maturity come about. This stupid dependence on the government to make the world a better and safer place just breeds incompetence and dependency. Yes, the gov't serves its purpose in overseeing things such as roads, schools, public works, etc. But the government is ill-suited to be in the morals, values and common sense business. That is the province of parents and guardians.
Example of over protection are the Hipsters that are infecting today's Society. A bunch of passive aggressive self entitled douchebags

What do you expect when you raise children in a bubble where everyone gets a trophy and it's someone else's job/fault.
 

Carambrda

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Let’s take mechmods and ohms law. I’d like to think that any reasonable person wouldn’t expect a 15 year old to have neither the maturity, knowledge or skill set involved in maintaining or safely using a mech. Not there there is any age when that happens, but it would certainly help mitigate, ensure or limit the amount of times that someone’s push the limits beyond what they can handle. It would also help make sure the maturity not to make our image worse to the likes of the fda.
The vast majority of vaping related battery explosions don't happen in mech mods at the hands of 15 year olds, nor even at the hands of any and all mech users combined. Rather, the vast majority of them happen in regulated mods (and external battery chargers) at the hands of adults who want to blame their own personal retardedness on 15 year olds and mechs.
 

SteveS45

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THAT is why I think it's fucking stupid to make it illegal for teens to vape. Because a) some teens already smoke, and need a safe way to quit without suffering, the same as adults do

While some teens can and do benefit from being able to quit smoking by vaping there is a vast majority of them who are vaping just for "The Buzz" they get from High Amounts of Nicotine extremely fast. That is not smart and can be dangerous. I started smoking before I was even a teen and know how addicted I was after almost 40 years of Cancer Sticks.
 

MannyScoot

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Test have been done and findings obtained with various procedures developed to study dependence-related behavioral effects of nicotine in experimental animals and humans.

Results obtained with drug self-administration, conditioned place preference, subjective reports of nicotine effects and nicotine discrimination indicate that nicotine can function as an effective reinforcer of drug-seeking and drug-taking behavior both in experimental animals and humans under appropriate conditions.

Interruption of chronic nicotine exposure produces ratings of drug withdrawal and withdrawal symptoms that may contribute to relapse. Difficulties encountered in demonstrating reinforcing effects of nicotine under some conditions, relative to other drugs of abuse, may be due to weaker primary reinforcing effects of nicotine, to aversive effects produced by nicotine, or to a more critical contribution of environmental stimuli to the maintenance of drug-seeking and drug-taking behavior with nicotine than with other drugs of abuse.

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2687081/
 

Carambrda

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While some teens can and do benefit from being able to quit smoking by vaping there is a vast majority of them who are vaping just for "The Buzz" they get from High Amounts of Nicotine extremely fast. That is not smart and can be dangerous. I started smoking before I was even a teen and know how addicted I was after almost 40 years of Cancer Sticks.
The "gateway" effect that allegedly is causing young people to pick up the smoking habit as a consequence of their moving from vaping to smoking, is unfounded.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...warnings-unfounded-says-public-health-england

The evidence does not support the concern that e-cigarettes are a route into smoking among young people (youth smoking rates in the UK continue to decline, regular use is rare and is almost entirely confined to those who have smoked)
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/phe-publishes-independent-expert-e-cigarettes-evidence-review
 

Carambrda

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Test have been done and findings obtained with various procedures developed to study dependence-related behavioral effects of nicotine in experimental animals and humans.

Results obtained with drug self-administration, conditioned place preference, subjective reports of nicotine effects and nicotine discrimination indicate that nicotine can function as an effective reinforcer of drug-seeking and drug-taking behavior both in experimental animals and humans under appropriate conditions.

Interruption of chronic nicotine exposure produces ratings of drug withdrawal and withdrawal symptoms that may contribute to relapse. Difficulties encountered in demonstrating reinforcing effects of nicotine under some conditions, relative to other drugs of abuse, may be due to weaker primary reinforcing effects of nicotine, to aversive effects produced by nicotine, or to a more critical contribution of environmental stimuli to the maintenance of drug-seeking and drug-taking behavior with nicotine than with other drugs of abuse.

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2687081/
The article you linked does not present any evidence to support the claim that nicotine without tobacco is addictive.
 

AndriaD

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Test have been done and findings obtained with various procedures developed to study dependence-related behavioral effects of nicotine in experimental animals and humans.

Results obtained with drug self-administration, conditioned place preference, subjective reports of nicotine effects and nicotine discrimination indicate that nicotine can function as an effective reinforcer of drug-seeking and drug-taking behavior both in experimental animals and humans under appropriate conditions.

Interruption of chronic nicotine exposure produces ratings of drug withdrawal and withdrawal symptoms that may contribute to relapse. Difficulties encountered in demonstrating reinforcing effects of nicotine under some conditions, relative to other drugs of abuse, may be due to weaker primary reinforcing effects of nicotine, to aversive effects produced by nicotine, or to a more critical contribution of environmental stimuli to the maintenance of drug-seeking and drug-taking behavior with nicotine than with other drugs of abuse.

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Is this nicotine ON ITS OWN... or just "smoking"? Because I'll be the first to admit, smoking is the most godawful addiction I've ever faced, including c*ke and booze. But nicotine? Piece of cake. No withdrawal from nicotine WHATSOFUCKINGEVER. This demonstrated after 2 weeks of zero vaping when I had the flu -- I didn't vape because I could barely breathe, but I didn't miss it at all, until I started feeling better. That NEVER happened with smoking. I'd smoke no matter HOW sick I was, including a bad case of flu, and a major pelvic infection when I could barely walk.

I';ve had worse withdrawal from cessation of caffeine, than from nicotine. (headaches from hell!)

The problem is that all the "experts" CONFLATE nicotine with smoking, when nicotine is only ONE active ingredient in smoking, and probably the least toxic and least "addictive." It might reinforce the effects of the MAOIs... but that's all it does. By itself, it's barely dependence-producing (NOT addictive, and yes they are very different!) at all.

Andria
 

SteveS45

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The "gateway" effect that allegedly is causing young people to pick up the smoking habit as a consequence of their moving from vaping to smoking, is unfounded.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...warnings-unfounded-says-public-health-england
The evidence does not support the concern that e-cigarettes are a route into smoking among young people (youth smoking rates in the UK continue to decline, regular use is rare and is almost entirely confined to those who have smoked)
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/phe-publishes-independent-expert-e-cigarettes-evidence-review

None of this has anything to do with teens who are vaping 50+MG's until they get sick and dizzy because they are using nicotine like a DRUG and not to quit smoking. I did not say a thing concerning gateway effects or anything else you quoted me with.
 

AndriaD

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The article you linked does not present any evidence to support the claim that nicotine without tobacco is addictive.

He didn't even bother linking an article! Not that it would have mattered, since, as you so correctly point out, any such "research" is biased IN THE EXTREME.

Andria
 

r055co

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Test have been done and findings obtained with various procedures developed to study dependence-related behavioral effects of nicotine in experimental animals and humans.

Results obtained with drug self-administration, conditioned place preference, subjective reports of nicotine effects and nicotine discrimination indicate that nicotine can function as an effective reinforcer of drug-seeking and drug-taking behavior both in experimental animals and humans under appropriate conditions.

Interruption of chronic nicotine exposure produces ratings of drug withdrawal and withdrawal symptoms that may contribute to relapse. Difficulties encountered in demonstrating reinforcing effects of nicotine under some conditions, relative to other drugs of abuse, may be due to weaker primary reinforcing effects of nicotine, to aversive effects produced by nicotine, or to a more critical contribution of environmental stimuli to the maintenance of drug-seeking and drug-taking behavior with nicotine than with other drugs of abuse.

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2687081/

https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/how-to-deal-with-sugar-withdrawal-a-psychiatrist-explains
 

AndriaD

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I'd also like to point out, to those vapers among us who INSIST that they are "addicted to nicotine, can't live without it without bodily harm to everyone nearby" -- if you THINK you are addicted to something, then you are. That's one aspect of addiction that many don't understand. Whether or not you are in fact actually addicted to something is kinda irrelevant when you BELIEVE that you are, and go to whatever lengths you deem appropriate to feed that "addiction." Which means that if you suddenly stop using whatever it is you believe you're addicted to, your brain will MANUFACTURE symptoms of withdrawal. That's the power of belief. OTOH, if you aren't sure if you're addicted or not... try going without whatever it is. You might be surprised. Or, you might experience symptoms indicative of MILD DEPENDENCY -- headaches, grumpiness, etc. Dependency and addiction are NOT!!! the same thing, not even close.

Andria
 

MannyScoot

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Don't think that vaping is healthy for your body. Vaping is a healthier alternative to smoking cigarettes.

Any compounds taken into your body react to other additives and other chemicals in your body. Nicotine is labeled not to be touched or to get it on your skin am I correct ?

There is a reason for that, maybe spreading it on rats skin might be a stupid test, and from 50 rats all of them developed skin malenoma (tumors) growing on the epidermis.

I am a vaper and enjoy vaping as a 54 year old male, but we are in the early stages of development and think that keeping our kids away until they are old enough to make decisions is a good effort. And further testing is needed before we can say that vaping is healthy.

Like I said as a 26 year smoker of a pack of Marlboro Menthol is that I feel better and Vaping is a healthier alternative.

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MannyScoot

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You need to do some reading on nicotine because your understanding of it is incomplete.
I have been reading 3 to 4 studies that have been completed since 2006 and they do not show perfect results.....

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MannyScoot

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Is this nicotine ON ITS OWN... or just "smoking"? Because I'll be the first to admit, smoking is the most godawful addiction I've ever faced, including c*ke and booze. But nicotine? Piece of cake. No withdrawal from nicotine WHATSOFUCKINGEVER. This demonstrated after 2 weeks of zero vaping when I had the flu -- I didn't vape because I could barely breathe, but I didn't miss it at all, until I started feeling better. That NEVER happened with smoking. I'd smoke no matter HOW sick I was, including a bad case of flu, and a major pelvic infection when I could barely walk.

I';ve had worse withdrawal from cessation of caffeine, than from nicotine. (headaches from hell!)

The problem is that all the "experts" CONFLATE nicotine with smoking, when nicotine is only ONE active ingredient in smoking, and probably the least toxic and least "addictive." It might reinforce the effects of the MAOIs... but that's all it does. By itself, it's barely dependence-producing (NOT addictive, and yes they are very different!) at all.

Andria
It's different for me.... If I stop completely Vaping for 2 or 3 days..... People smoking cigarettes triggers something in me......

So I start thinking If I should smoke again since I'm old anyway..... So I start vaping again and become normal or at least not thinking of a cigarette....

So is there an addiction to the 18mg nicotine I'm Vaping ? Does my body ask for it ?

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AndriaD

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Don't think that vaping is healthy for your body. Vaping is a healthier alternative to smoking cigarettes.

Any compounds taken into your body react to other additives and other chemicals in your body. Nicotine is labeled not to be touched or to get it on your skin am I correct ?

There is a reason for that, maybe spreading it on rats skin might be a stupid test, and from 50 rats all of them developed skin malenoma (tumors) growing on the epidermis.

I am a vaper and enjoy vaping as a 54 year old male, but we are in the early stages of development and think that keeping our kids away until they are old enough to make decisions is a good effort. And further testing is needed before we can say that vaping is healthy.

Like I said as a 26 year smoker of a pack of Marlboro Menthol is that I feel better and Vaping is a healthier alternative.

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Driving a car isn't healthy. How many tens of thousands die from it every year? But I don't see the WHO, FDA, nor anyone having a hysterical fit about THAT. And hey, they even give driver's licenses to TEENS!

Breathing city air isn't healthy... but how many billions live in cities, without anyone raising any sort of fuss?

LIFE ON PLANET EARTH IS HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH, and the #1 cause of death... is LIFE. Insisting that EVERYTHING be PERFECTLY HEALTHy is ridiculous, unworkable, and just plain stupid. Spinach is good for you, right? It also contains a very high quantity of oxalic acid... which impedes the absorption of IRON... which is necessary to keep living!

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Andria
 

AndriaD

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It's different for me.... If I stop completely Vaping for 2 or 3 days..... People smoking cigarettes triggers something in me......

So I start thinking If I should smoke again since I'm old anyway..... So I start vaping again and become normal or at least not thinking of a cigarette....

So is there an addiction to the 18mg nicotine I'm Vaping ? Does my body ask for it ?

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That's because YOU WERE ADDICTED TO SMOKING. It's a bell that cannot be un-rung! It has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to say about nicotine in isolation!

Andria
 

MannyScoot

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Driving a car isn't healthy. How many tens of thousands die from it every year? But I don't see the WHO, FDA, nor anyone having a hysterical fit about THAT. And hey, they even give driver's licenses to TEENS!

Breathing city air isn't healthy... but how many billions live in cities, without anyone raising any sort of fuss?

LIFE ON PLANET EARTH IS HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH, and the #1 cause of death... is LIFE. Insisting that EVERYTHING be PERFECTLY HEALTHy is ridiculous, unworkable, and just plain stupid. Spinach is good for you, right? It also contains a very high quantity of oxalic acid... which impedes the absorption of IRON... which is necessary to keep living!

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Andria
Andria since you find nicotine such a perfect ingredient let's do a test.... Rub (1) drop of nicotine liquid on the top of your hand every hour 15 hours a day for 30 days...... And see what happens.

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AndriaD

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Andria since you find nicotine such a perfect ingredient let's do a test.... Rub (1) drop of nicotine liquid on the top of your hand every hour 15 hours a day for 30 days...... And see what happens.

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Why? It wouldn't prove anything ABOUT VAPING. There is no way to tell you anything of value, since you have already made up your mind to do the ANTZ's job for them.

Just really glad I stocked up, so i can keep vaping when you and all your ANTZ buddies have managed to kill vaping. But I give up. If you have ANY interest in the truth, which I doubt, do some reading:

E-Cigarette Politics: http://www.ecigarette-politics.com/
Clive Bates: https://www.clivebates.com/
Brad Rodu: https://rodutobaccotruth.blogspot.com/
Dr Michael Siegel: http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/
Carl V. Phillips: https://antithrlies.com/
Dick Puddlecote: http://dickpuddlecote.blogspot.com/
Christopher Snowdon: https://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/


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bobnat

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Andria since you find nicotine such a perfect ingredient let's do a test.... Rub (1) drop of nicotine liquid on the top of your hand every hour 15 hours a day for 30 days...... And see what happens.

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Manny, there are a lot of things in this world that if rubbed onto skin as you prescribe above would cause some serious problems. And as pointed out, it has nothing to do with vaping. If the point that nicotine is harmful because of doing that, then a ton load of stuff is harmful if used wrongly.
 

SteveS45

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Shit with all the Tomatoes I grew in the garden this year and all I ate I got so much nicotine I am surprised the FDA didb't come and try and regulate my garden or declare it a Tobacco Product.......................
 

Carambrda

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None of this has anything to do with teens who are vaping 50+MG's until they get sick and dizzy because they are using nicotine like a DRUG and not to quit smoking. I did not say a thing concerning gateway effects or anything else you quoted me with.
Teens getting all sick and dizzy from a chemical substance that isn't addictive, despite it is harmful, is still 95% less harmful than teens smoking cigarettes that ARE addictive and that still ALSO contain this exact same harmful substance anyway in the first place. Vaping among young people is first and foremost an escape route AWAY from smoking, i.e. it is intrinsically the same as among people who aren't young, because, regular use [of e-cigarettes among young people] is rare and is almost entirely confined to those who have smoked. (The key words here are "rare", and "have"...)
 

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Teens getting all sick and dizzy from a chemical substance that isn't addictive, despite it is harmful, is still 95% less harmful than teens smoking cigarettes that ARE addictive and that still ALSO contain this exact same harmful substance anyway in the first place. Vaping among young people is first and foremost an escape route AWAY from smoking, i.e. it is intrinsically the same as among people who aren't young, because, regular use [of e-cigarettes among young people] is rare and is almost entirely confined to those who have smoked. (The key words here are "rare", and "have"...)

Like I said, the teens I mentioned are ABUSERS not USERS.
 

Lotus Insane

Silver Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
2 Steps to Check if a "Scientific Study" is actually unbiased, or is specifically structured to reach an end goal.

Step 1 - Check Funding
Step 2 - Is the study truly broad, or is it structured to reach the result they were looking for.
 

Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
Like I said, the teens I mentioned are ABUSERS not USERS.
Yeah I get that, but the evidence shows this particular kind of teens are rare (i.e. a really very far stretch away from being an "epidemic" among teens...), and, in addition to that, almost all of these particular teens HAVE smoked, which you know as well as I do means they would still be smoking if it weren't for the fact they have access to these vaping products in question so in the end the net result is still less bad, to some non-negligible extent at least, as the effects of harm reduction also apply to these teens in spite of the fact nicotine is still nevertheless much worse for teens than it is for adults of course. So my point is the teens that are abusers are rare, and, the teens that are REGULAR abusers are even much rarer than them, so first the tobacco control lobby lies about the addictiveness of nicotine, and then it lies again, about it being an epidemic among teens. Bottom line? Lying is highly addictive.
 

SteveS45

Diamond Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
Yeah I get that, but the evidence shows this particular kind of teens are rare (i.e. a really very far stretch away from being an "epidemic" among teens...), and, in addition to that, almost all of these particular teens HAVE smoked, which you know as well as I do means they would still be smoking if it weren't for the fact they have access to these vaping products in question so in the end the net result is still less bad, to some non-negligible extent at least, as the effects of harm reduction also apply to these teens in spite of the fact nicotine is still nevertheless much worse for teens than it is for adults of course. So my point is the teens that are abusers are rare, and, the teens that are REGULAR abusers are even much rarer than them, so first the tobacco control lobby lies about the addictiveness of nicotine, and then it lies again, about it being an epidemic among teens. Bottom line? Lying is highly addictive.

I do not agree or disagree but all I mentioned was the abusers is why the Idiot legislators and Guberment Orifices do what they do. Personally I just accept the fact in my world Vaping is treated like smoking and obey the ordinances regardless if I agree or not. Teens should not be smoking or vaping PERIOD but who the Fuck am I to say they shouldn't since I smoked before I was even a teen.
 

Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
I do not agree or disagree but all I mentioned was the abusers is why the Idiot legislators and Guberment Orifices do what they do. Personally I just accept the fact in my world Vaping is treated like smoking and obey the ordinances regardless if I agree or not. Teens should not be smoking or vaping PERIOD but who the Fuck am I to say they shouldn't since I smoked before I was even a teen.
Well if there had been no abusers, then I suppose the tobacco control lobby would just lie about that also. Because, once addicted to lying... ALWAYS addicted to lying.
 

MannyScoot

Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Manny, there are a lot of things in this world that if rubbed onto skin as you prescribe above would cause some serious problems. And as pointed out, it has nothing to do with vaping. If the point that nicotine is harmful because of doing that, then a ton load of stuff is harmful if used wrongly.
I rubbed nicotine out of a bottle several times a day for a couple of days ... My skin got red.... After the 3rd day rashes and I couldn't stop itching......

It wasn't fun.... I rubbed that Okeefe's red relief all day for a week until the skin stopped bleeding and began flaking off....

So maybe I'm allergic to nicotine......

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

MannyScoot

Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Maybe you are allergic to the VG or PG the Nicotine was suspended in unless it was Pure Nicotine which of course you should already know is a Highly toxic Substance.
No I was rubbing a drop of % nic..... Here and there screwing around because I couldn't believe it was toxic....

But I learned the hard way.......

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

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