Become a Patron!

Which 2X700 is the hardest hitting?

Fudgey Finger

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
I've tried to find some info on Mooch's blog but I couldn't find anything. I just got my first 2X700 mod and I am very unimpressed with the Ijoy 21700. The internal resistance is roughly 50% higher than my VTC5a's and I can notice a big difference in performance. It just doesn't hit hard enough for me.

Is there a 2X700 cell that hits harder than this one? I remember hearing about some people finding some top notch 2X700's in a drill battery pack or something like that. Is that still a thing?

Any links or info would be really appreciated. If this Ijoy 21700 is the best there is I will be selling my Boxer asap.
 

jasonandsarah

Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Sanyo 20700a is the battery your referring to and it's basicly the best of the 2*700 batteries. If you watch the newer mooch videos he says there's other good things coming for 2*700 soon.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

Fudgey Finger

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Sanyo 20700a is the battery your referring to and it's basicly the best of the 2*700 batteries. If you watch the newer mooch videos he says there's other good things coming for 2*700 soon.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Do you know what battery pack has them? Any links would be really appreciated. I'm willing to pay a good amount to find a cell that hits harder than this Ijoy 21700.
 

jasonandsarah

Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years

zephyr

Dirty Pirate Meg
VU Donator
Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Unlisted Vendor
I've tried to find some info on Mooch's blog but I couldn't find anything. I just got my first 2X700 mod and I am very unimpressed with the Ijoy 21700. The internal resistance is roughly 50% higher than my VTC5a's and I can notice a big difference in performance. It just doesn't hit hard enough for me.

Is there a 2X700 cell that hits harder than this one? I remember hearing about some people finding some top notch 2X700's in a drill battery pack or something like that. Is that still a thing?

Any links or info would be really appreciated. If this Ijoy 21700 is the best there is I will be selling my Boxer asap.

Mooch says Sanyo 20700A:
From ECF
"This 20700A is a true high performance cell that I am rating at a cool-running 30A 3100mAh. It performed well against the top 18650 cells for performance, vaping time, and safety (high amp rating). The 20700A...

...hits as hard as the Sony VTC5A at the start and easily holds its voltage up higher for considerably longer.

...runs about 20% longer than the VTC6 at 20A continuous down to3.2V.

...runs 5°C cooler than the LG HB6at 20A continuous and for about 230% longer. Yes, 230%."

Sorry, see it's been answered
 

Fudgey Finger

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
I'm 95% sure it's this one DEWALT DCB206 20V MAX 6.0Ah Lithium Ion Premium Battery https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M4RGMCL/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_3zDEAb0ZF8SV0
But you might want to confirm that 100%.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
After you named the cell I was referring to I did some google searches. It does look like this is the right one. I've found prices from $70 to $140. I'm wondering if the cheaper ones are authentic or not. I found an ebay seller than has the Sanyo 20700a for less than $20 each and they have marks from being taken out of packs. I'll probably grab a couple of them and if they aren't authentic I will buy a battery pack.

Thanks for your help!
 

jasonandsarah

Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
After you named the cell I was referring to I did some google searches. It does look like this is the right one. I've found prices from $70 to $140. I'm wondering if the cheaper ones are authentic or not. I found an ebay seller than has the Sanyo 20700a for less than $20 each and they have marks from being taken out of packs. I'll probably grab a couple of them and if they aren't authentic I will buy a battery pack.

Thanks for your help!
If your on fb there's a couple people that are known and trusted who sell 20700a.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

jasonandsarah

Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
After you named the cell I was referring to I did some google searches. It does look like this is the right one. I've found prices from $70 to $140. I'm wondering if the cheaper ones are authentic or not. I found an ebay seller than has the Sanyo 20700a for less than $20 each and they have marks from being taken out of packs. I'll probably grab a couple of them and if they aren't authentic I will buy a battery pack.

Thanks for your help!
The packs that are $140 are normally 2 packs

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

The Cromwell

I am a BOT
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I think it was fairly obvious in my post that I know how to locate Mooch's ratings tables. CDR doesn't tell you anything about internal resistance and how hard a battery hits. Thanks for trying to help though.
The internal resistance is inferred by Mooch's CDR. The higher internal resistance the lower the CDR.
the higher Mooch CDR batteries will have the lower internal resistance.
 

zephyr

Dirty Pirate Meg
VU Donator
Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Unlisted Vendor
The internal resistance is inferred by Mooch's CDR. The higher internal resistance the lower the CDR.
the higher Mooch CDR batteries will have the lower internal resistance.

That's what I was thinking, too. So yep, that Sanyo 20700a has the highest CDR, so lowest internal resistance
 

Fudgey Finger

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
The internal resistance is inferred by Mooch's CDR. The higher internal resistance the lower the CDR.
the higher Mooch CDR batteries will have the lower internal resistance.
Yes and no. In general a higher CDR cell will have less internal resistance than a lower CDR cell, this is true. That doesn't mean that 2 different cells with the same CDR have the same internal resistance. If what you are claiming is the case then if you compared 2 30 amp cells from different manufacturers they would have the same internal resistance. That would be incorrect.

This is why Mooch will eventually start including information about how hard different cells hit. He mentioned actually putting the milliohms on the table, but on the 26650 table he showed us in a different but almost as helpful way. This link will show you what I mean.
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/attachments/9bd7d8fa-8447-4b84-a3b7-8eba6b4d440e-jpeg.712087/
 

jasonandsarah

Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Yes and no. In general a higher CDR cell will have less internal resistance than a lower CDR cell, this is true. That doesn't mean that 2 different cells with the same CDR have the same internal resistance. If what you are claiming is the case then if you compared 2 30 amp cells from different manufacturers they would have the same internal resistance. That would be incorrect.

This is why Mooch will eventually start including information about how hard different cells hit. He mentioned actually putting the milliohms on the table, but on the 26650 table he showed us in a different but almost as helpful way. This link will show you what I mean.
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/attachments/9bd7d8fa-8447-4b84-a3b7-8eba6b4d440e-jpeg.712087/
Everytime I click on one of the ecf links it brings me to some random thread on ecf. Must be because Im not a member

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

zephyr

Dirty Pirate Meg
VU Donator
Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Unlisted Vendor
That's incorrect. Look a my above post.

It makes sense in my head that the same CDR with a higher maH rating would mean less voltage drop, because the battery maintained its temperature while discharging for a longer period. I agree that the exact measurement would be useful.
 

The Cromwell

I am a BOT
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
That's what I was thinking, too. So yep, that Sanyo 20700a has the highest CDR, so lowest internal resistance
As a general guideline it works well as a detail thing it is not exactly accurate.
Mooch rates his test on max temp of the cell during a fixed rate discharge.
the higher the internal resistance of a cell the more internal heat the cell generates at a given current discharge.
Higher internal resistance also causes more voltage sag on the output which shows on Moochs discharge curve graphs.

All this mooch said and proved in his last video comparing the 30Q, HG2 and VTC6 batteries.
 

jasonandsarah

Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Try this one https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/t...ch-test-results-and-new-ratings-table.725452/
I'm banned over there because of my username and I tried the link in another web browser and it worked while not logged in. It's the 26650 rating table with more info than the 18650 table.
It's probably because Im on my phone. That one doesn't work either.
That's why I'm not a member over there because of shit like that. I mean it's an adult website so wtf is wrong with your name? I mean if it said shitty finger banger then I might understand lol

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

hellcatrydr

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Do you know what battery pack has them? Any links would be really appreciated.
I'm willing to pay a good amount to find a cell that hits harder than this Ijoy 21700.

What does that mean... hits harder?

Are you referring to discharge rate? If not, what?
 

zephyr

Dirty Pirate Meg
VU Donator
Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Unlisted Vendor
It's probably because Im on my phone. That one doesn't work either.
That's why I'm not a member over there because of shit like that. I mean it's an adult website so wtf is wrong with your name? I mean if it said shitty finger banger then I might understand lol

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/attachments/9bd7d8fa-8447-4b84-a3b7-8eba6b4d440e-jpeg.712087/

What does that mean... hits harder?

Are you referring to discharge rate? If not, what?
Lower voltage drop under load, and lower voltage drop under load over time
 

zephyr

Dirty Pirate Meg
VU Donator
Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Unlisted Vendor
Last edited:

hellcatrydr

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Vapers don't drive the battery market, Tesla does. The 2170 as it's now called is the new standard worldwide.
Now it's just a matter of everybody else catching up.
Tesla rejected the 2070s in favor of the 2170... after much research and testing.

Tesla can make batteries. And they're about to be making em bigly.
They have access to batteries, and chemistries, and engineers and test equipment
that would make @Mooch touch himself. :)

Right now AFIK the iJoy cells are about the ONLY ones available to us and Mooch presumably.

I'm pretty sure that's because Tesla is swallowing up every one produced worldwide.
Samsung produces a couple but good luck finding em...
Tesla is seriously behind too... because lack of batteries.:confused:

But as I understand it, that's about to change. Soon Tesla will be producing their own 2170s here in the US.
Tesla starts mass production of new ‘2170’ battery cell at the Gigafactory, will be used in Model 3 in Q2


T
hat's their brand new battery factory... I'm no expert but that sounds like vapers should soon
have access to a whollle buncha new 2170s.
:bliss:
You can bet chemistry will be improving as well.
 
Last edited:

zephyr

Dirty Pirate Meg
VU Donator
Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Unlisted Vendor
Who said that? I dunno who makes the iJoy 21700s.
I doubt they're the same thing as a 30T.

Ain't no 30Ts to be had. :(

.yet

Nawwww that is not what I meant...I meant the link I posted was for a 21700 size battery, that's all...I'll try to make it clearer
 

Vape Fan

_evil twin_
Staff member
Senior Moderator
VU Donator
Platinum Contributor
Press Corps
Member For 5 Years
Of the 21700 ‘s readily available atm, these 2 seem to be at the top.
He rates S35 at 30A and 3700mAh.
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/threads/bench-test-results-golisi-s35-40a-3750mah-21700…overrated-but-performs-better-than-the-ijoy-21700.840391/
This one runs cooler @ 24A and seems to be same cell as S35
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/t...tively-rated-seems-same-as-golisi-s35.847073/

Hopefully the two T’s, or at least the A will be available sooner rather than later.
If irr the 30T hits harder than 40T and 40T better for regulated.
 
Last edited:

Fudgey Finger

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Samsung 30T beats the Sanyo 20700a according to Mooch
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/t...ch-test-results-an-incredible-battery.798683/
View attachment 102664 View attachment 102665
Samsung 30T but only available in 50+ bulk
https://voltaplex.com/samsung-30t-21700-battery-inr21700-30t

Edit: Guess buying a DeWalt battery would be cheaper than buying in bulk(50), but
...point stands! lol

Was rushing trying help and saw "In Stock" so I jumped too soon
That's awesome. I believe 10-12 mOhms is still slightly higher resistance than the vtc5a though (8-10 mOhms). I'm defenitely going to need to do more research on these 2x700 cells.
 

Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years

Fudgey Finger

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
According to Mooch, the internal resistance of the VTC5A is about 18 milliohms. He wrote it on May 26, 2017 in the comments section to his blog about internal resistance: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/blog-entry/what-is-battery-internal-resistance.7569/
Thanks for sharing that. I got my number from firsthand testing internal resistance on several 5a's. I'm going to go out on a limb though and assume that Mooch has more accurate equipment than I do. Glad to read what he wrote after that too about, readings are off but it's fine as long as it's consistent.
 

Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
Thanks for sharing that. I got my number from firsthand testing internal resistance on several 5a's. I'm going to go out on a limb though and assume that Mooch has more accurate equipment than I do. Glad to read what he wrote after that too about, readings are off but it's fine as long as it's consistent.
Well he wrote that keeping the accuracy the same for all his battery tests is more important to him than upgrading the accuracy of his testing equipment, as the primary goal in that regard is to be able to keep reliably comparing all the batteries to each other─without having to retest them all, as it is impossible for him to retest all of them.
 

tejas240

Member For 2 Years
The golisi s35 21700 and purple vapcell 24a 21700 batteries are both better than the ijoy 21700 according to mooch and you can find both online for sale.
 

Twisted_Straights

Unlisted Vendor
I've tried to find some info on Mooch's blog but I couldn't find anything. I just got my first 2X700 mod and I am very unimpressed with the Ijoy 21700. The internal resistance is roughly 50% higher than my VTC5a's and I can notice a big difference in performance. It just doesn't hit hard enough for me.

Is there a 2X700 cell that hits harder than this one? I remember hearing about some people finding some top notch 2X700's in a drill battery pack or something like that. Is that still a thing?

Any links or info would be really appreciated. If this Ijoy 21700 is the best there is I will be selling my Boxer asap.

The Golisi S35 21700 Is Rated Very Well By Battery Mooch!
 

Twisted_Straights

Unlisted Vendor
I have both of these the Golisi 21700 and the Sanyo 20700A and Battery Mooch has released test charts on both and The Golisi was very impressive. Based on that provided info. Many peeps are going to argue however machines only state the facts not opinions. Golisi provided 3701mAh versus Sanyo 3310mAh & the Golisi using the Xtar Dragon internal resistance tester was 8 ohms and the Sanyo was 9 ohms. Now here is my experience the Golisi outperforms the Sanyo it simply lasts longer with 400+ milliamps. Both deliver 30 amps efficiently! It comes down to what mod and either one is a fantastic choice IMO!

Twisted_Straights
 

Attachments

  • Golisi Ohms.jpg
    Golisi Ohms.jpg
    149.5 KB · Views: 9
  • Sanyo Ohms.jpg
    Sanyo Ohms.jpg
    157.2 KB · Views: 8
  • Golisi Versus Sanyo Milliamps.jpg
    Golisi Versus Sanyo Milliamps.jpg
    164.3 KB · Views: 7

Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
I have both of these the Golisi 21700 and the Sanyo 20700A and Battery Mooch has released test charts on both and The Golisi was very impressive. Based on that provided info. Many peeps are going to argue however machines only state the facts not opinions. Golisi provided 3701mAh versus Sanyo 3310mAh & the Golisi using the Xtar Dragon internal resistance tester was 8 ohms and the Sanyo was 9 ohms. Now here is my experience the Golisi outperforms the Sanyo it simply lasts longer with 400+ milliamps. Both deliver 30 amps efficiently! It comes down to what mod and either one is a fantastic choice IMO!

Twisted_Straights
Speaking of facts... here you can see the Golisi S35 (although the run time on it is actually fairly good) does not really hit very hard at all.

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/a...0a-3750mah-21700-pulsetest-zoomed-jpg.702885/

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/attachments/image-png.628873/

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/attachments/image-png.562145/
 

Twisted_Straights

Unlisted Vendor
Yes The All Elusive Sanyo 20700A hardest hitting 30amp Until My Samsung 30T BATTERIES ARRIVE SOON! Here are some pics for everyone to see. Now I have sold 850+ Sanyo As With 33 Five Star Battery Reviews On Ebay. That should be proof enough that I am reputable battery seller. Here is the ALL NEW Samung 30T Re-Wrap From VapCell. Also Milliohms Test Results With Xtar Dragon VP4 Plus Charger / Tester On Golisi and Sanyo! I Sell All Three Batteries & In My Opinion They All Have Earned There Place As Top Performing Batteries! People Tell Lies However Machines & Pictures Along With Customer Feedbacks Tell The Truth!!!
 

Attachments

  • Sanyo Ohms.jpg
    Sanyo Ohms.jpg
    157.2 KB · Views: 10
  • Golisi Ohms.jpg
    Golisi Ohms.jpg
    149.5 KB · Views: 10
  • 11.jpg
    11.jpg
    56.8 KB · Views: 11
  • 23.jpg
    23.jpg
    62.5 KB · Views: 10
  • Golisi Versus Sanyo Milliamps.jpg
    Golisi Versus Sanyo Milliamps.jpg
    164.3 KB · Views: 10

Twisted_Straights

Unlisted Vendor

Well Opinions Are One Thing. However Unless your willing to say Xtar is Junk the internal resistance on two different machines state a lower resistance than the Sanyo A and here are the facts one more time. I am speaking from pictures of test results showing the facts and experience along with Mooches charts show the Golisi is a rock star. You may want to re-read what you post next time no offense intended! His charts are very Clear How Amazing The Golisi IS!!! People lie but machines cannot! Besides, why would I even be biased as I sell both and see a place for both with two different form factors / size in the vape community! My Sanyo customers are experiencing the same results same hitting power longer lasting! Facts & Experience CANNOT be disputed! 854 Sanyo Customers & Many Bought The Golisi To Compare Them. You can argue with opinions but never someones EXPERIENCES! You may want to see what people are saying about the Golisi On EBAY Before You Respond! Just Saying!

Twisted_Straights
 

Attachments

  • Golisi Ohms.jpg
    Golisi Ohms.jpg
    149.5 KB · Views: 10
  • Sanyo Ohms.jpg
    Sanyo Ohms.jpg
    157.2 KB · Views: 10
  • Golisi Versus Sanyo Milliamps.jpg
    Golisi Versus Sanyo Milliamps.jpg
    164.3 KB · Views: 10
Last edited:

Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
Well Opinions Are One Thing. However Unless your willing to say Xtar is Junk the internal resistance on two different machines state a lower resistance than the Sanyo A and here are the facts one more time. I am speaking from pictures of test results showing the facts and experience along with Mooches charts show the Golisi is a rock star. You may want to re-read what you post next time no offense intended! His charts are very Clear How Amazing The Golisi IS!!! People lie but machines cannot! Besides, why would I even be biased as I sell both and see a place for both with two different form factors / size in the vape community! My Sanyo customers are experiencing the same results same hitting power longer lasting! Facts & Experience CANNOT be disputed! 854 Sanyo Customers & Many Bought The Golisi To Compare Them. You can argue with opinions but never someones EXPERIENCES! You may want to see what people are saying about the Golisi On EBAY Before You Respond! Just Saying!

Twisted_Straights
The Xtar is junk if the goal is to compare how different batteries perform differently. Look at Mooch's zoomed-in pulsed current discharge graphs more closely... the Golisi S35 pulsed at 30 amps is the green line in the first pic, whereas the Sanyo 20700A pulsed at 30 amps is the red line in the second pic. lol :p

P.S., even the 5-leg iJoy 20700 hits much harder than the Golisi S35. See:
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/attachments/img_4975-png.649033/
 

Fudgey Finger

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Wow Carambrda, just a couple weeks ago you were telling me to be careful about buying harvested cells. I thought the seller seemed like he knew what he was doing. Now the seller that I got those cells from is in this thread showing how little he knows and saying things like " You can argue with opinions but never someones EXPERIENCES!", while shilling for himself.

I know who I'm not buying cells from again.
 

VU Sponsors

Top