I wasn't confused at all....
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What Makes a Clone a Clone?
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MistaKuraudo
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The you should realize that a copy is a copy, no matter what it's labeled as. As such, it takes away business from the original source.
As one of the main anti-clone guys, I've GOTTA support the supply and demand argument. I'll be damned if EVERY FUCKING AUTHENTIC that comes out isn't sold out in 5 seconds or less.
If you've got the itch for something, and the CLONE is available to you before you can ever get your hands on an original, then maybe they're getting what they've got coming to them...
If you've got the itch for something, and the CLONE is available to you before you can ever get your hands on an original, then maybe they're getting what they've got coming to them...
MistaKuraudo
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Because when one man in a garage spinning metal for hours on end can't make enough of something, it's okay to steal. Damn straight!
Not necessarily...Many people I know, including myself, arent likely to spend 250 bucks-plus on a
mod whether the clone exists or not....we arent their target market...most people arent... youre saying, in effect, that if the 60 dollar HANA clone didnt exist, people would instead buy the 300 dollar original....that's simply untrue...many like me do not see the value at that price...furthermore, most of these original makers don't produce enough product in their limited runs to satisfy demand....there's no way a clone could take away business from them if they aren't producing the product to sell...no business has been taken away from them...they are doing just fine...
I've never purchased a clone and don't own ANY. I was simply stating that if the demand is there for ANY product, and the supply is non-existent, then the doors are wide open for copycats to make a quick buck...
I'm finally trying to buy one authentic, and I found a satin black manhattan for a good price on CL. I've done research as to what to look for to make sure it's authentic, and clones are just popping up on alibaba, haven't seen any for sale yet. I know what I need to look for, and I've watched videos, and doubt that any clone will have the magnets that has. They are freaking serious business. There's no locking ring they are so strong. Need to find out if the lifetime warranty transfers, too, since they send you free replacement parts when the gold plating wears. If not, I doubt I'll buy, since that warranty would be worth paying full price. Not completely sold on the color, but it's a good deal, and seems like a mod that will be overkill for me, which I'm fine with.
I feel like this is valid to the conversation, since it does bring up another issue, which is that inevitably people are flipping clones as authentics, and sometimes it's not easy to tell, especially with good clones that are truly 1:1. It's exactly what is concerning me right now, especially since I've never seen a manhattan in the flesh. This dude on CL could be any fuckwad, or genuine, but you never know. That's not a china thing, but a concern when buying used away from forums like this. Clones open an avenue for people to rip each other off. Also, I think it's been raised, but on the flip side, people are selling rare authentics at ridiculous markups, another way to screw over your fellow vapers.
I have no moral objections to clones, though I understand the reason for there to be one. I and many others would need to save up for a bit to afford an authentic, and that's shitty, yes, but I have 3 clones and I'm happy. Again, I am planning on buying one authentic at least. I hope I can control my vaping budget to save for one next. Hate me if you want since it's not morally motivated, I just want to experience something that is near flawless from the get go, and at this point, I'm willing to shell out the coin once I have it.
I feel like this is valid to the conversation, since it does bring up another issue, which is that inevitably people are flipping clones as authentics, and sometimes it's not easy to tell, especially with good clones that are truly 1:1. It's exactly what is concerning me right now, especially since I've never seen a manhattan in the flesh. This dude on CL could be any fuckwad, or genuine, but you never know. That's not a china thing, but a concern when buying used away from forums like this. Clones open an avenue for people to rip each other off. Also, I think it's been raised, but on the flip side, people are selling rare authentics at ridiculous markups, another way to screw over your fellow vapers.
I have no moral objections to clones, though I understand the reason for there to be one. I and many others would need to save up for a bit to afford an authentic, and that's shitty, yes, but I have 3 clones and I'm happy. Again, I am planning on buying one authentic at least. I hope I can control my vaping budget to save for one next. Hate me if you want since it's not morally motivated, I just want to experience something that is near flawless from the get go, and at this point, I'm willing to shell out the coin once I have it.
Roger Schaeffer
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this debate goes on and on> My truth what ever device keeps you off analogs is AOK with me. After all its a matter of life or death. If you have a clone budget and Mechs and rebuilding as a hobby helps you keep off cigarettes Go For It. If you have a Authentic Budget and are happy with them I applaud You.
MistaKuraudo
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And you may be right, but that doesn't stop it being available to people who were thinking about buying the authentic until the clone popped up, or people who don't even know about authentics vs clones. And the "I wouldn't have bought it anyway" still doesn't make it okay. It increased demand for clones making China more eager to come out with more stolen designs for people who may or may jot have purchased the original. Lol
You have a right to your point of view and to have an opinion, and while I disagree with most of it, and the premise you employ to reach yours, it is what it is and I realize that there is not much I can say will change it in a circular debate....so I wont waste my time or yours trying...
Here's how you tell if something is a clone; You buy it, use it and check if your soul is intact. If you have lost part of it, its a clone.
I doubt Bugatti has a sales issue because of the plethora of kit cars out there.
Same can be said of watches, hobbyist flashlights, work boots and computers.
The name brands (which are meaningless really, in a global economy) still hold sway for the average person. Because Marketing works.
If you want quality, you can find it. The Free Market system allows a choice....is that a bad thing or not?
Look at what I'm getting for $20..the VapeTech Copper Panzer clone: http://johnnymacreviews.wordpress.c...pper-mechanical-mod-clone-from-focalecig-com/
Does anyone actually believe I should HAVE to pay some guy in the Philippines with a CAD program and a CNC machine shop $200+ for the same thing? They are laughing all the way to the bank.
FWIW, the authentic mods I own don't really have any clones of them...and that is ok too.
Same can be said of watches, hobbyist flashlights, work boots and computers.
The name brands (which are meaningless really, in a global economy) still hold sway for the average person. Because Marketing works.
If you want quality, you can find it. The Free Market system allows a choice....is that a bad thing or not?
Look at what I'm getting for $20..the VapeTech Copper Panzer clone: http://johnnymacreviews.wordpress.c...pper-mechanical-mod-clone-from-focalecig-com/
Does anyone actually believe I should HAVE to pay some guy in the Philippines with a CAD program and a CNC machine shop $200+ for the same thing? They are laughing all the way to the bank.
FWIW, the authentic mods I own don't really have any clones of them...and that is ok too.
Precisely. Its not so much that they are copying a design, its that they are stealing the work the original designer did in getting it to market, getting recognition, taking a risk that it might not be accepted, etc. That is what defines a clone. They steal not only the design, but all the other hard work as well. Why should the Chinese be able to leech off someone else's effort? There are plenty of Chinese companies that don't, like Innokin, Kanger, etc. All the more power to 'em I say, because they compete on a (somewhat) more level playing field.
One other thing people seem to forget about this "Clone Frenzy" and the "Evil Clone Empire": One of the main points the ANTZ always use against the e-cig industry is that its the "Wild West" and "We don't know what's in them". This whole cloning/no respect for copyrights does nothing but add to that, and gives their argument more strength. What's the best way for the powers that be to reign in the "Wild West"? Why give the industry to companies they know that play by their rules, and they understand and can control.
I mean BT, of course.
The FDA and the US Gov't absolutely does not agree with your philosophy. And that is what will ultimately kill the industry.
Because the USA is the only country on Earth that has modders and vapers, right?
FACT: the majority of clones are copies of non-american mods in the first place. The US is not "the industry".
Said by the company that makes the Crown. How exactly does Evolv feel about that I wonder?
For fun....
Roger Schaeffer
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I doubt there's 10 politicians in USA who know what a clone Mod -RDA-RBA is. If more knew they might not be so eager to pass restrictive-knee jerk legislation
Please, oh please let me know, how, that in any way imaginable, the Crown a clone of the Kick. Please, please tell me.
Other than the round. Yes, they are both round. But I think you will agree that Evolv does not have a copyright on round.
I think, with that statement, you highlight that you don't even know what a clone actually is.
You have watched the video, eh?
Crown
Kick
I think it's odd, that a Canadian company that makes a fairly obscure vv/vw power module so very much like the American-made Kick should be championing the mobs against China copying things.
Lets see, which variable power module came first? Oh right, the Kick did. Tell me how it is not a clone with a few "additions".
The Crown, added features nobody really wanted to a device people liked:
1. Tones, really?
2. IMO, you do not need VV if you have VW
3. 10W....
BTW, How's that 70W SuperMax doing? MoC still getting kicked off forums and Reddit for spamming?
How's ECF doing for ya...oh wait...ya wouldn't pay to be a registered supplier so they booted ya.
I think you're so adamantly against clones because your business is likely failing and you need someone to blame.
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You have watched the video, eh?
Crown
Kick
I think it's odd, that a Canadian company that makes a fairly obscure vv/vw power module so very much like the American-made Kick should be championing the mobs against China copying things.
Lets see, which variable power module came first? Oh right, the Kick did. Tell me how it is not a clone with a few "additions".
The Crown, added features nobody really wanted to a device people liked:
1. Tones, really?
2. IMO, you do not need VV if you have VW
3. 10W....
BTW, How's that 70W SuperMax doing? MoC still getting kicked off forums and Reddit for spamming?
How's ECF doing for ya...oh wait...ya wouldn't pay to be a registered supplier so they booted ya.
I think you're so adamantly against clones because your business is likely failing and you need someone to blame.
I don't see any similarities there except the round. Where are the other similarities? The original Kick didn't have spring pins, BTW, so they copied that from me, BTW. The Crown came out before the Kick II.
You obviously still don't understand what a clone is.
Go back to ECF, you troll.
I have to disagree. Selling it as a "clone" does not take away it's counterfeit nature. A counterfeit item is meant to deceive. Whether it is meant to deceive the buyer or some onlooker is irrelevant. But I don't care who buys these items, and to be honest -- and as much as I hate to say it -- many times they can be better than the OGs, but they are still counterfeit items. The only people making "true" clones are the OG makers. Yes. Once the original manufacturers have their first production-mod done, all others they make are clones of it (i.e., "genetically identical"). Anyone else using their exact design, logo, serial numbers, signature, etc., are making counterfeits, even if 1:1. I am not making a case against the usage of clones though as I only care about the vape -- whatever brings the best vape for any one vaper is all right with me.
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Feel free to disagree...I dont find the differences on how things are meant to be as "irrelevant"....I will have to disagree with you as well...
Feel free to disagree...I dont find the differences on how things are meant to be as "irrelevant"....I will have to disagree with you as well...
Does this mean we agree -- to disagree? LOL. That stuff is trivial anyway -- one thing that I don't get down with is judging someone else for how they spend their money or whom they give their money to. And frankly, the only time I have been utterly disappointed with a purchase (and felt taken advantage of) was when I spent/spend an arm and a leg and got/get crappy QC, whack functionality or poor performance from the OG gear. If buying a "clone," we know it MAY not work out great, but the entrance fee is nominal. When I pay over big bucks and get worse-than-China QC from an OG maker, it literally makes buying a "clone" the better option.
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This is a good point. I have no personal experience, well very little, with authentics, but I know quite a few people who have had the exact same issues as the clones, with an authentic. As I've mentioned, my vaping budget doesn't allow authentics, but I'm trying to save for one, but I must admit that if I she'll out in the neighborhood of 200 bucks, which is a lot for me for anything, I want it PERFECT, and I don't think that is unreasonable. Seeing things like the o.g. Akuma releasing a new switch barely after release, and having the nerve to charge v1 owners, who just bought them, mind you 42 bucks to replace what they are obviously acknowledging is a fault, is bullshit. I have the clone and all I can complain about regarding the switch is the locking ring, mine fires great. Still, that's shitty to charge the v1 owners who JUST received theirs to replace the switch with the new one, which now comes with it, no extra charge. They should have given it to them. You take a loss in business occasionally to make things right, this doesn't sit well with me. This is also why I worry about spending the cash.
I wish I could set your mind at ease, but the fact is that's the risk you take when you pay the big bucks (which makes no sense considering high costs should offer higher protections). Some vendors like Bay City Vapor will go to the ends of the earth to satisfy their customers (and that includes sending you replacements, often times, at no charge), but those type of practices are not exactly the norm. Many times you will get no replacement parts, and then to get those simple parts you WILL pay bread.
What also sucks is that most of these OG manufacturers offer NO type of warranty, replacement or return policy. I mean, these can be huge tickets with little to no protection for the purchase. Super T Manufacturing and a few more do offer fantastic warranties, but they are far and few between.
At the end of the night, the vape shoud be what's most important to the vaper. However that gets accomplished should be totally up to that vaper. The only thing I don't play around with or condone, in terms of OG/fakes, is batteries!
1. The Evolv Kick v1 came out over a year before your Crown v1, so who copied who then?
2. I understand just fine, you just can't take the scrutiny, eh?
3. LOLZ....when unable to defend , always use personal attacks, right? It's so professional of you..
FWIW, I haven't been on ECF since 2012. And, I'm no troll. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of your position regarding clones.
I'm glad you mentioned that vendor, I will surely check them out for authentics, since that is the customer service I need, in the event that something happens.
As I said, for me, it's a huge investment, just realized I need new running shoes, getting near 500 miles, and I run marathons, so that's 140 bucks or so that is spent. Just like batteries with mods, shoes are something I can't skimp on with the miles I run. Unfortunately, good shoes are expensive, and again, it's your health and injury prevention, so I gotta buy my Authentics... Lol. Sounds funny referring to shoes as such.
So, I'm Not getting an authentic for a bit longer, now. Again, thanks for that vendor, it will give some peace of mind once I take the plunge. I found a good deal on a manhattan locally, just I'm a bit scared of it. I know it performs like a beast, but that company seems sketchy, and although everything about it, especially the magnets requiring no locking ring due to their strength, appeals to me, I read even more concerning things today. I know the venting issue has been proven to work at 35 psi, but that's ridiculous, and it seems the venting is blocked when the switch is depressed. Especially for something designed to produce serious sub ohm capabilities, seems like a pipe bomb. I guess they also took them off market? They are saying that the clones being released worry them about venting, so they are pulling the o.g.s to prevent a china clone from being mistaken for an o.g., and blowing up due to venting issues. I'm leaning towards a no on this one, as much as it intrigues me.
A bit off topic, but anyone have any experience with the manhattan? And, are my concerns justified? Thanks. Oh, and they have a lifetime warranty and send you replacement gold plated contacts when they wear out, I'm guessing an email will answer this, but I'm guessing that's done now, too.
I have vaped a Manhattan when I was in SoCal last week or so. I don't know, it vaped like a mechanical mod. No better, no worse. And to anyone thinking I didn't get a "chance" to see it shine -- I vaped it on a buid from someone regarded (by others at the vape shop) as a great builder (his builds are admittedly pretty spiffy) on a set-up built for max performance. It felt like a vape. LOL. Nothing earth shattering. My point is: get the best shoes possible!
[Edit: I don't know which vendor you are referring to that I mentioned, but if it was Bay City Vapor, I think it would behoove you to keep them in your head as a strong possibility to one day buy from.]
[Edit: I don't know which vendor you are referring to that I mentioned, but if it was Bay City Vapor, I think it would behoove you to keep them in your head as a strong possibility to one day buy from.]
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Yup, Bay City. The XXIX copper looks pretty spiffy, and they sell magnets which are a requirement for me. I'm glad to hear your feedback on the manhattan. Sounds like if it's around still and well enough priced it's worth a look in the future, but new info is coming it seems regularly that worries me, so I might avoid it. If he's still selling by the time I have the money, though, he will be desperate lol.I have vaped a Manhattan when I was in SoCal last week or so. I don't know, it vaped like a mechanical mod. No better, no worse. And to anyone thinking I didn't get a "chance" to see it shine -- I vaped it on a buid from someone regarded (by others at the vape shop) as a great builder (his builds are admittedly pretty spiffy) on a set-up built for max performance. It felt like a vape. LOL. Nothing earth shattering. My point is: get the best shoes possible!
[Edit: I don't know which vendor you are referring to that I mentioned, but if it was Bay City Vapor, I think it would behoove you to keep them in your head as a strong possibility to one day buy from.]
And I won't skimp on shoes man! In a lot of ways they are my #1 priority at all times, at least regarding getting "my" shoes, and making sure to get em' when I need em'. I am dealing with an injury at the moment, and it's not been fun, so I don't fuck around when it comes to my feet. You give quality advice!
Roger Schaeffer
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I just Ordered a Fat Snow Wolf Black Rose Edition says the logo and name are patented in the US
Fat Snow Wolf image and logo hold a United States patent
Fat Snow Wolf image and logo hold a United States patent
tombaker
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Its a Clone if its a copy, as near as exact as possible.
Its a Counterfeit if it uses logos and other things which make it hard to tell if its made by the OEM or not.
If you buy a clone and it says Rolex, its counterfeit.
If you buy a clone and its says Ronex, or Rolexx, RoIex, its not a problem, its just a clone.
Its a Counterfeit if it uses logos and other things which make it hard to tell if its made by the OEM or not.
Counterfeit is a problem because it reduces the value of reselling authentic parts. It also can screw up vendors if they sell and their distributor told them its real. It does not matter what it says on the box, because when you want to resell on Craiglist your prices are already toast because it the device that looks real.
Anyone making a clone should not need to use the branding information.If you buy a clone and it says Rolex, its counterfeit.
If you buy a clone and its says Ronex, or Rolexx, RoIex, its not a problem, its just a clone.
Roger Schaeffer
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Rolex has a US Copyright. So if you brand anything- say a flashlight Rolex- its illegal,the goods can be seized by law enforcement.Big cities do have counterfeit goods crime units. If you do not have a copyright or patent you have no legal grounds to stand on.
tombaker
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Sorry Wrong.
A trademark can be protected without registration. Though registration makes it easier. Plus it cost less than 400 dollars for a trademark registration, so it fairly resonable to understand that most original MOD makers of any size, with have trademarked their brand....yes that Branding should be on the Devices to assert the claims.
Is federal registration of my mark required?
No. In the United States, parties are not required to register their marks to obtain protectable rights.
You can establish “common law” rights in a mark based solely on use of the mark in commerce,
without a registration. However, owning a federal trademark registration on the Principal Register
provides a number of significant advantages over common law rights alone, including:
•
A legal presumption of your ownership of the mark and your exclusive right to use the mark
nationwide on or in connection with the goods/services listed in the registration (whereas a
state registration only provides rights within the borders of that one state, and common law
rights exist only for the specific area where the mark is used);
•
Public notice of your claim of ownership of the mark;
•
Listing in the USPTO’s online databases;
No. In the United States, parties are not required to register their marks to obtain protectable rights.
You can establish “common law” rights in a mark based solely on use of the mark in commerce,
without a registration. However, owning a federal trademark registration on the Principal Register
provides a number of significant advantages over common law rights alone, including:
•
A legal presumption of your ownership of the mark and your exclusive right to use the mark
nationwide on or in connection with the goods/services listed in the registration (whereas a
state registration only provides rights within the borders of that one state, and common law
rights exist only for the specific area where the mark is used);
•
Public notice of your claim of ownership of the mark;
•
Listing in the USPTO’s online databases;
You listed three major differences between the Crown and the Kick in post #70 (There are
many more, of course).
That alone in itself makes it not a clone, trolly McTrollerson. So go back to Troll Land
where you belong. I think your ECF buddies must me missing you.
many more, of course).
That alone in itself makes it not a clone, trolly McTrollerson. So go back to Troll Land
where you belong. I think your ECF buddies must me missing you.
When I was in SoCal I visited a few different vape B&Ms that all said the same thing: We don't sell clones. But, they DID in fact sell non-Janty eGo's AND Kamry mechanical mods. I asked them how it was possible to sell non-Janty eGos and Kamrys and say they "didn't sell clones." One said it's mostly because people don't know the original company that introduced the eGo to the market (Janty), or that Kamry took their design from (Empire Mods). And a few of the B&Ms didn't know who Janty or Empire Mods actually are (oy vey!). One shop owner told me it was because the (specifically) eGo was so ubiquitous now that it didn't make a difference. It was never said to me, but it was implied that those devices just aren't big enough of a deal to matter (as in, "no one cares").
I know vapers that swear up and down that they would never buy a clone, but they do have their spare (just-in-case battery) of a non-Janty eGo or a Kamry (or both). I say, then, they don't have issues with clones, just with some (maybe more expensive?) devices being cloned.
Ludo at Janty and Keith at Empire Mods would beg to differ that these items -- that are virtually indistinguishable from their products -- are innocent and out of the discussion for being a clone.
[I take no particular hard stance on clones, just that if some do take a hard stance, they should be consistent.]
I know vapers that swear up and down that they would never buy a clone, but they do have their spare (just-in-case battery) of a non-Janty eGo or a Kamry (or both). I say, then, they don't have issues with clones, just with some (maybe more expensive?) devices being cloned.
Ludo at Janty and Keith at Empire Mods would beg to differ that these items -- that are virtually indistinguishable from their products -- are innocent and out of the discussion for being a clone.
[I take no particular hard stance on clones, just that if some do take a hard stance, they should be consistent.]
You are completely correct with those two examples. I believe Ludo had licensed Joye to make the Janty eGo for him (so Joye's eGo, for a while, was a licensed clone), but eventually Joye said "Screw it" and in typical Chinese fashion decided not to honour any agreements. So they not only stole the name, but stopped making Janty stuff for Ludo as well.
The Kamry, well, that was an out-and-out theft from Empire. Aided and abedded by the vaping community. I remember hearing one commenter say with great enthusiasm on his show that "even the parts where interchangeble with the Empire". This despite the fact that Empire Mods was one of the sponsors of his show!
Oh, the irony....
Yeah, what Joyetech did to Janty, IMO, is one of the WORSE things that has ever been done to a ecig company. The eGo (Janty) took us out of the little stick batts and brought our attention to what was possible in vaping -- though where it went is beyond where they could've imagined. Not only are eGos everywhere, but Joyetech has people believing that they are the originator! That's like hiring someone to build your house off of your design and then they move in like, what?! It's mine now, beeatch! LOL
It irks me a bit with the Kamry because Keith has always been a stand up guy. But, even still, I can take no issue with one customer doing what they will based on their own pocketbook issues, but it sucks that some vapers and vendors have supported clones, but SOME of them seem to only care about it when we're talking "high-end gear." Either take a stance or don't.
p.s. The saddest part about what Joyetech did, aside from how they tricked the community as a whole, is that their eGos -- I mean, Janty's egos with Joyetech's name on it -- is that Joyetech's eGos don't cost hardly any different than Janty (if at all)! That's the most baffling part.
VH fan
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Spike has it right , a clone is just that , a reproduction of an original design and it does not try to be something it's not , a fake or counterfeit is a reproduction masquerading as the genuine item when it is not.
Some clones are truly outstanding and many are complete garbage , need to do the research .
Some clones are truly outstanding and many are complete garbage , need to do the research .
So a "clone" is only a counterfeit if someone sells it as an original? So I can sell "clone" iPhones as long as I call them iPhone clones? As long as they come in a box called "clone" and the seller says "it's not really an iPhone, though it looks 100% like an iPhone?" But everything else is the same on the phone but it is sold at a cheaper price? Yeah, don't think Apple is going to let that happen -- hell, they won't let you use a rectangular design with rounded corners! LOL
According to the law, if you take a signature, logo, markings, etc., without permission, then it is a counterfeit -- particularly if it is sold (the price or label it is under matters not in the eyes of the law). No fake Gucci or fake Rolex is ever sold as original (obliviously you can't buy those items on a street corner), but are they not counterfeits? The best case scenario, if one has too much issue with the term "counterfeit," is that these items are guilty of trademark infringement (and no, it doesn't need to be registered). But that comes from the The Trademark Counterfeiting Act.
No purpose -- function or otherwise -- can ever be claimed for taking the name, art work or logos of preexisting items but for the sole purpose of giving one the illusion that it is the genuine article. Just because someone knows that it is a fake, doesn't make it not a fake. Oh, and counterfeiting products has existed way before anyone decided to call those items "clones" -- "clones" is a new term for this old situation. I had a conversation with a B&M owner where I told him that part of the reason I think "clones" are so widely popular is that the term "clone" is so innocuous. I can't imagine any vendor saying, "Yo, we got those sweet new counterfeit Anatolians in!" LOL.
It's just a conversation and I really like this topic because it can be tricky; though a fake is a fake. But the vape is real! hahaha
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Roger Schaeffer
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I Phone has Legal Dept the size of Texas. And Microsoft started out of a garage,they made it big because the product was original and unique,they had great business savvy.
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Yeah, I heard that the fruit industry can no longer sell apples as "apples" anymore. LOL . They have to call them Malus domestica from now on!
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Roger Schaeffer
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r
Vape Mail ordered Wensday from Amazon
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Roger Schaeffer
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I did not know there was a 1 to clone on the market. I paid $150 and did not get a warranty card from Admodus with mine. Thing is I bought 3 Tobeco Clone RDA's with the same order and all were clearly sold as clones.
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Hottest-SS-Black-Copper-Ecig-1_1954109180.html
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Hottest-SS-Black-Copper-Ecig-1_1954109180.html
I guess I don't follow. Are you saying that one that is supposed to be the real Mccoy is suspect?
Roger Schaeffer
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yep Might have made a mistake buying from a Amazon seller instead of a online Mod Shop. Only did it becasue I got a new Amazon store card with a 20$ of 1st order promo instead of waiting till I had the cash
So they sold a fake as the real deal? Yeah, that's the part that sucks about the "clone" industry -- if they didn't counterfeit the "unauthorized usage" of trademarks/logos/signatures and such, there would not be a chance the buyer could ever be left wondering; it would either be a copy in body design, but with some random name, or it would be just blank. Does the mod have a serial number? Even though, since the "cloners" take that as well, you still may be hard pressed to find out if it is real. Maybe the mod maker will be able to tell you if they have sold that serial number?
Hey, best case scenario is you got a great functioning mod even if it is a counterfeit. Sorry you had that happen though (if that is the case). You can check it out and if it is the case that is is a fake, you can always leave negative feedback -- though I don't know if Amazon customers are as hawkish as ebay with that.
Hopefully you were not taken by being sold a counterfeit item as the real deal. I can't front, I'd be effing steaming!
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Roger Schaeffer
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Nope no serial #. It does seem like a solid mod. Threads are great - plated pins seen good-Just for my first Mech I wanted an Authenic 26650 Mod a sidekick to my Seigeli 20watt with 26650 tube. I can live with it.