Want to right this before disaster

[GorGon27]

For years I have ran chargers on a carpeted floor in a closet. Never a problem, but when there is.... First I will put a Photo-cell smoke detector directly above this. Then I will put a large slab of tile under them. Plus a large tile against the wall they are next to. the issue is the back and left side are wide open. obviously this will not contain a fire which is not my goal. I just do not want to catch anything else on fire!

Do you think my idea is adequate or does anyone have another idea? I know people built boxes out of stainless etc but that is a bit extreme to me. Although what I have been doing is a bit(very) stupid. If anyone knows some precautions I can take I would appreciate that. I also charge them unattended but I think most people do that. At 1 amp not 2 so batteries last I am not going to sit in the closet for 3+ hours.

I just figured it is time to be safe than ultimately sorry. You just never know when this could happen which is the real inherent danger. Since it is like a Jack in the box. Fine for years until BAM! Or am I over reacting and my setup is okay? I am being serious even though I think what I have been doing is bad news. So please nothing sarcastic. I would like help, something I could easily implement please. I cannot do much being disabled with hands. However anything must be better than this. I believe it is true what is said and I am flirting with disaster. I could really use some help here. Thanks

 

[SteveS45]

My chargers sit on a Metal Shelf in my Network Rack never had a problem and since I am not worried the smoke detector will go off in case of a vent which would only happen if I was an asshole like the Crom.

 

[GorGon27]

If I catch you right, you mean a vent is unlikely when properly used anyways? Perhaps all the sites that sell this stuff just say that scare for legal mumbo jumbo. That is what I thought. Of course only takes one time bad cell whatever. Who is Crom lol? I would not go so far as to disable smoke detectors unless you have a situation like mine. Since you may forget about it. We have home automation that is monitored. FD charges $1,000 for false alarm. So you can disable them all for an up to an hour at a time with half an hour between resets. It sends a signal to monitoring anything that has been changed in the system. Even if the fridges quit lol.

I would say your place is better than carpet though. Never had a problem. Although if nothing else carpet must be making the chargers run hotter. Any good charger has catastrophic failure protection but probably not vent. It is if it overheats or thermal runaway. I will just do to what I said which is almost akin to yours since yours is partially open as well. I figure a foot perimeter of tile it is not going to vent that far. I have seen the videos went off like a rocket killed people etc. That is flashlights which have no vent hole due to ipx and are literally pipe bombs.

Again, if I understand you we both agree a vent in an open charger is unlikely. First of all it will sense a short or high internal resistance or high temp. Shut down. Although depending how hot it is it can still vent afterwards but this is just unlikely. I figure I am safe with the tile. If you don't mind my asking are you a Network engineer or something? Why a Network Rack? I have a Modem/router on 1GBPS. I could imagine what you have. Oh, I have got Mods too hot to touch and did not even shut off DNA chips so not nearly as hot as I thought. Anything can happen but I think vent mainly results from stupidity.

A lot is common sense/respect. People do stupid shit. However handled properly, intact wrappers not too old cells etc I think they are much safer than they are made out to be. Look at charging Tesla cars. That is jammed behind the trunk and that many 18650's could blow the thing through your garage door but it does not happen. some explosions on hard impact but so does Gasoline DUH. Another idea try not to smash the shit out of ones car. No where warns about dumb ass driving but batteries go figure.

Interesting flashlights which require much more care come with none of these warnings! I figure a little protection as I describe is plenty enough. I would not advise carpet and that, on my part is sort of really stupid. I am about to remedy this shit right now. Well, wait I might actually have a sheet metal box after all. Holy shit! The truth is it is not really required but carpet is not a very smart idea either TBH. I don't even know that because charging in the Mod many people probably do put it on the floor. Plus now they are charging at 2A so it is quite frankly if anything, worse. The truth is it is just unlikely unless you do something you shouldn't. It does happen nonetheless when the Moon is in Uranus so maybe think about where one puts it for like a nanosecond. Seriously, if it was that fucking dangerous it would not be legal. It is a carryover to Ecigs, used in a whole myriad of shit. Lesson: don't be stupid. Although carpeting probably loosely falls into that category.

OH Shiznit, look how much I just typed about this subject HAHA. Anyways, No I am not afraid of the Boogey Man and I use a Condom.

 

[SteveS45]

A lot is common sense/respect. People do stupid shit.

Yes and these are who make the news~! While I don't worry about charging I do have it on a protected circuit so the dual protection will kick before something goes wrong. Correction that has 3 circuit protectors in line. I forgot about the one before the one one the rack before the UPS Surge protector.

 

[jwill]

Why dont you make sure you have a good quality charger with overcharge protections and charge them on a counter top or shelf somewhere where you can keep an eye on them?

if you were super worried about it you can set the whole thing on your porch or in your garage and then take them off a charger when done. Shouldnt use the charger as a storage box (IMO) and i am more afraid of something go wrong out of sight rather than out in the open.

Its cool to be cautious but you very likely do not need a burn chamber to charge batteries. I personally would rather have them out where I can see them so if something does go wrong it can addressed now, rather than after it has burned a hole in the carpet and ruined the sheetrock if it were to vent or become a roman candle.

I am more worried about my own carelessness than any of the battery chargers getting loco.

 

[GorGon27]

Actually I am not too worried now that I think about it. I once dropped a Hookah coal on this carpet and it took 5 minutes to find something to pick it up with. when I returned there was a big black mark but not even burnt much. It is good Wool carpet and Wool AFAIK does not burn like some crap nylon or whatever. I can't really keep an eye for 3 hours. I would like some inline protection. They are very good chatrgers Xtar,Pila. The outlet is on GFCI and AFCI. Perhaps that is all I need. I mean those two should stop even the hint of an electrical fault. That is charger failure though a battery could possibly but unlikely still vent one day. I did what I said and happy with that. I have Two types of industrial grade electrical protection behind it and now they are on slabs of Granite. On carpeting that does not seem to burn to begin with. I put tile on the wall but it is 1 hour 500 degree rated anyways. Yeah this shit makes the news but even a battery venting is not like a huge explosion if it is not being contained at the time. Like a bottle rocket. I do believe t5he guy that died from the chemicals released but I bet they did not say what kind of health problems he had.

I am actually very careful, no stupid shit on my part. Most likely you will not ever be seeing me on the news. Famous last words lol. Kidding aside I do not fuck around with things that will bite you in the ass. Idiots are stacking batteries, using torn wrappers and all kinds of just dumb shit. These do pack a punch so just do not beg for them to kick your ass! Treated with respect I think they are similar in level of danger to say a fucking curling iron. Certainly a space heater, especially with extension cord(DUH) is way more dangerous. I was never afraid of this and am still not but figured a little precaution was in order. Done. You can't live your life in fear but do not attempt to win a Darwin award either I guess.

 

[jwill]

We could see you on the news for falling over a balcony while trying to take a selfie and I personally know three people who have died from a space heater so those are definitely lethal. Anything can kill you. There is no guarantee of safety at all involved in anything that a person does.

While lithium batteries have risks involved, when used properly, cared for and handled as intended they become less risky. A good charger and good battery habits will help further contain those risks. There is always the risk something could go wrong. Look at the man in Florida recently.

I am not aware of the article you cite about a battery chemical release death. Please cite this so we can see what it is you are referring to.

 

[Ryedan]

For years I have ran chargers on a carpeted floor in a closet. Never a problem, but when there is.... First I will put a Photo-cell smoke detector directly above this. Then I will put a large slab of tile under them. Plus a large tile against the wall they are next to. the issue is the back and left side are wide open. obviously this will not contain a fire which is not my goal. I just do not want to catch anything else on fire!

Do you think my idea is adequate or does anyone have another idea?

M'thinks you're over-thinking this a bit.

FWIW, here's what I do. I charge cells when I'm in the house. I generally charge at 1A so it doesn't take long. If I'm on the computer like right now I have the charger on the table beside me. If I'm busy and want to charge batts I put the charger on the stove in the kitchen, with tiles on the wall behind it and a metal hood above. I have a good fire extinguisher in the kitchen and know where it is.

With good batteries and charger, bought from a reputable supplier, I feel pretty safe. Just in case something fails, I always take them off charge if I leave the house. Works for me, but as always YMMV

 

[GorGon27]

I am using a couple of Xtars and a Pila. I don't have anywhere else to really put them. I mean yeah I do but this is convenient. I figure with the tiles I put since this carpet does not burn anyways and the wall is 1 hour rated at 500 degrees to begin with I am fine here. I am not sitting afraid. I just figured an ounce of prevention, you know. So with the tile I am satisfied. I use LG,Samsung and Sony genuine cells not remarked. So It is unlikely to occur to begin with but now just in case it ever does there is quite frankly enough precaution in place. The point being, properly handled with good stuff it is unlikely in the first place. Sure, Cell phones exploded whatever shit happens. However if one uses their noggin these are pretty safe. Otherwise I am sure the government would stop it because we all know they would love to. they can't though because they are in a poor old guys scooter to name a few.


The death was on CandlepowerForums. A guy got his up close with a vent. he got sicker over 2 weeks and sadly passed. I think that might have more to do with him personally than the vent. We do not know his health history. This like I am guessing 8-12 years ago but search over there like "battery explosion very sick" or something. Life is not guaranteed. There are like ten Bizzilian things that can waste your ass. Life is a privilege and if treated as such you may fare better in the longevity department. Read this as just do not do stupid shit no matter what it pertains to and fucking be careful with yourselves. Like when a light turns green I wait 3 seconds while looking at each side of the intersection. People mostly hardly notice and it is better safe than sorry. I do not stop there, no. I do all kinds of smart stuff like that. I do not even J walk. I truly believe as of now, as does my doctor vaping may not be harmless but way better than tobacco. It is all good. Consider this taken care of and myself satisfied with the level of protection provided.

 

[GorGon27]

Well, I put them in one of the bathrooms. With Granite counter and backsplash, full wall mirror. Simply because at my age I figured why the hell am I getting on the floor every time. Only thing is outlet is right there. So bunch of loose cord. Do not bundle cords on appliances that can draw 2-3 Amps. So that is easier at least and still pretty much fireproof. Unless it shoots out of the charger, across the room and lights up a towel lol. Shit happens but you cannot live your life in fear. Especially not of this shit. Good charger and batteries should be pretty safe. Since to begin with they have thermal shutdown among other protections. I am satisfied with it. Heck, for years I just had them on carpeting. I finally figured maybe that was not the best idea. Watch it burn down the house now!

 

[bobnat]

Here is a part explanation of the the Law of Small Numbers which Kahneman and Tversky, Nobel Winners, explored.

Another bias Kahneman and Tversky found to be common in people’s thinking is “availability,” whereby people judge probabilities based on how available examples are to them. So, for example, people overstate the risk from driving without a seat belt if they personally know someone who was killed while driving without. Also, repetition of various stories in the news media, such as stories about children being killed by guns, causes people to overstate the risk of guns to children.

People are suckers for the Law of Small Numbers and allow it to influence their decisions. Basically, we ignore how dangerous things truly are while focusing on those that aren't. An example would be the bathroom. Most don't know just how dangerous home bathrooms are. Thousands of people die every year from falls in bathrooms, yet they don't take any precautions, such as mats or handles in bathtubs. In fact, the chances for dying in an accident in your home are greater than in an accident outside of it. When some guy blows off his face due to misuse of a mech and battery, we attach more probability of it happening to us than it deserves. But if the media ran a front page story of every person that died falling in their bathtub, we'd probably all stop taking showers.

Yes, being killed by a venting battery has got to suck, but with typical precautions it just isn't worth worrying about. There are so many other things that have a much better chance of killing you, but do we even think about them? How many morons cross roads nowadays while looking at their phones?

 

[jwill]

Here is a part explanation of the the Law of Small Numbers which Kahneman and Tversky, Nobel Winners, explored.

Another bias Kahneman and Tversky found to be common in people’s thinking is “availability,” whereby people judge probabilities based on how available examples are to them. So, for example, people overstate the risk from driving without a seat belt if they personally know someone who was killed while driving without. Also, repetition of various stories in the news media, such as stories about children being killed by guns, causes people to overstate the risk of guns to children.

People are suckers for the Law of Small Numbers and allow it to influence their decisions. Basically, we ignore how dangerous things truly are while focusing on those that aren't. An example would be the bathroom. Most don't know just how dangerous home bathrooms are. Thousands of people die every year from falls in bathrooms, yet they don't take any precautions, such as mats or handles in bathtubs. In fact, the chances for dying in an accident in your home are greater than in an accident outside of it.

Yes, being killed by a venting battery has got to suck, but with typical precautions it just isn't worth worrying about. There are so many other things that have a much better chance of killing you, but do we even think about them? How many morons cross roads nowadays while looking at their phones?

The moisture in the air of a bathroom is much greater than elsewhere in the home. If you are on city water it contains elements that are corrosive, such as chlorine as well as a whole host of oxidizers and so forth.

Your batteries after a hot shower are exposed to this excess moisture and batteries while heating will allow this humidity to stick to them actually creating a small risk, where there wouldn't be one somewhere else in the home.

 

[bobnat]

The moisture in the air of a bathroom is much greater than elsewhere in the home. If you are on city water it contains elements that are corrosive, such as chlorine as well as a whole host of oxidizers and so forth.

Your batteries after a hot shower are exposed to this excess moisture and batteries while heating will allow this humidity to stick to them actually creating a small risk, where there wouldn't be one somewhere else in the home.

Dude, I'm not talking about charging batteries in the bathroom.

 

[jwill]

Dude, I'm not talking about charging batteries in the bathroom.

I am inventing non existent problems. I meant to quote OP, not you.

 

[SteveS45]

I guess I like to live dangerously my Nitecore has been in use 24/7/365 for years~!

 

[Carambrda]

I don’t worry about this stuff but if you need a place to charge that could prevent burning carpet if cell vented I have a solution. You could use an ammo can that you can buy at an army surplus store. Just drill a hole and run the cord through, put the charger inside and if battery vents it’s contained inside metal box. You’d need to put a hole gasket thing so cord isn’t cut by sharp edges where you drill hole through and run cord. Only other issue can be lack of airflow to cool charger being it’s inside box. But it seems like a cheap convenient fix if cell failure while charging is a concern of yours. I have several ammo cans but never bothered doing this because I’m not worried but I think it’s a good solution to ease someone’s worries.

Mooch recommends to put the charger on a ceramic tile and use a bit of common sense like no curtains overhanging, but if there will be flames the idea is to pull the cord and put the fire out before it can spread so if you're going to pour water after you pulled the cord maybe think about water damage and about getting yourself away from the poisonous smoke opening a window on your way out etc..

EDIT: metal can cause a hard short on a battery with a melting/burning battery wrap so not sure that's smart