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US vs EU

Polargirl

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
I'll probably regret creating another political thread for this site but I couldn't resist making this one for a few reasons. The existing political threads all seem to be US based so I thought I'd make one where people can share and compare their political experiences from two different or perhaps not so different places.

I guess I can start with the vaping related TPD EU regulations but this thread was created in the non-vaping related section so go ahead and compare Brexit to Trump or Catalonia secession with California secession or whatever else comes to mind including just political misery seeking foreign company or perhaps happiness?
 

Rossum

Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
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Synphul

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Highly doubt California will secede, they're just salty at the moment. They couldn't let go of the federal funding, left on their own they'd be hosed. They currently have a total state debt of $1.3 trillion as of Jan 2017. Especially since that would put them in an awkward position with the U.S. surrounding them, given that's where they get most of their water. It would no longer be interstate, it would create international imports for water from the U.S. Not to mention being a democrat state it would hurt the remainder of the democrat party when it came to elections. Within their party they like to stick together, so worried about the globalist viewpoint I don't think the rest of the dems would allow 55 electoral votes to go by the wayside. Meaning people like Pelosi and Waters have a stronger devotion to the democrat party as a whole than they do the constituents of California. Forced to choose they would rather be part of one big happy family than left on their own.

I'd imagine with all the assistance they need given all the recent wildfires they're plenty happy to remain in the union, so there's those factors as well. I notice not too many officials barking to secede when they're holding out their hand for federal money.

From my run ins with folks from across the pond, they definitely have different political views. They also have different upbringings, world views, cultures etc. Maybe what they prefer works for them over there, the beauty of not all belonging to a global government. Plenty of folks who didn't care for it there moved here and vice versa. My only real issue is with people from other regions telling me how my region of the world should do things. Me thinks they should worry themselves with their own shitshows as they usually have quite the laundry list of broken things at home to contend with.

I won't go so far as to lump entire groups of people together but any time there's say a gun related tragedy here in the U.S. a lot of talking heads from Europe like to chime in and stick their noses in. "See, you yanks and all your damn bloody guns, that's what you get you morons". Yet as an American I don't feel it necessary when a homeowner defends themselves against crime with a gun to go butt in on European based sites and be like 'yea see? you damn euro pussies can't protect yourself, thank god we have guns'. When it comes time for British or German or French or even middle eastern elections, how many Americans first off - know who the hell is running for what office? Know what candidate xyz stands for? Feels it's somehow their compulsive duty to mouth off and tell whichever nation what they 'ought' to be doing? Yet let an American election take place and people come out of the woodwork to tell another place how to do their business and it doesn't even affect them. Half the time places I didn't even know had internet lmao.
 

Polargirl

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Highly doubt California will secede, they're just salty at the moment. They couldn't let go of the federal funding, left on their own they'd be hosed. They currently have a total state debt of $1.3 trillion as of Jan 2017. Especially since that would put them in an awkward position with the U.S. surrounding them, given that's where they get most of their water. It would no longer be interstate, it would create international imports for water from the U.S. Not to mention being a democrat state it would hurt the remainder of the democrat party when it came to elections. Within their party they like to stick together, so worried about the globalist viewpoint I don't think the rest of the dems would allow 55 electoral votes to go by the wayside. Meaning people like Pelosi and Waters have a stronger devotion to the democrat party as a whole than they do the constituents of California. Forced to choose they would rather be part of one big happy family than left on their own.

I'd imagine with all the assistance they need given all the recent wildfires they're plenty happy to remain in the union, so there's those factors as well. I notice not too many officials barking to secede when they're holding out their hand for federal money.

From my run ins with folks from across the pond, they definitely have different political views. They also have different upbringings, world views, cultures etc. Maybe what they prefer works for them over there, the beauty of not all belonging to a global government. Plenty of folks who didn't care for it there moved here and vice versa. My only real issue is with people from other regions telling me how my region of the world should do things. Me thinks they should worry themselves with their own shitshows as they usually have quite the laundry list of broken things at home to contend with.

I won't go so far as to lump entire groups of people together but any time there's say a gun related tragedy here in the U.S. a lot of talking heads from Europe like to chime in and stick their noses in. "See, you yanks and all your damn bloody guns, that's what you get you morons". Yet as an American I don't feel it necessary when a homeowner defends themselves against crime with a gun to go butt in on European based sites and be like 'yea see? you damn euro pussies can't protect yourself, thank god we have guns'. When it comes time for British or German or French or even middle eastern elections, how many Americans first off - know who the hell is running for what office? Know what candidate xyz stands for? Feels it's somehow their compulsive duty to mouth off and tell whichever nation what they 'ought' to be doing? Yet let an American election take place and people come out of the woodwork to tell another place how to do their business and it doesn't even affect them. Half the time places I didn't even know had internet lmao.
Of course California won't secede. Congress would never approve. The Swiss have plenty of guns.

It would be interesting to know what the end game is for Catalonia.
 

pulsevape

Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Highly doubt California will secede, they're just salty at the moment. They couldn't let go of the federal funding, left on their own they'd be hosed. They currently have a total state debt of $1.3 trillion as of Jan 2017. Especially since that would put them in an awkward position with the U.S. surrounding them, given that's where they get most of their water. It would no longer be interstate, it would create international imports for water from the U.S. Not to mention being a democrat state it would hurt the remainder of the democrat party when it came to elections. Within their party they like to stick together, so worried about the globalist viewpoint I don't think the rest of the dems would allow 55 electoral votes to go by the wayside. Meaning people like Pelosi and Waters have a stronger devotion to the democrat party as a whole than they do the constituents of California. Forced to choose they would rather be part of one big happy family than left on their own.

I'd imagine with all the assistance they need given all the recent wildfires they're plenty happy to remain in the union, so there's those factors as well. I notice not too many officials barking to secede when they're holding out their hand for federal money.

From my run ins with folks from across the pond, they definitely have different political views. They also have different upbringings, world views, cultures etc. Maybe what they prefer works for them over there, the beauty of not all belonging to a global government. Plenty of folks who didn't care for it there moved here and vice versa. My only real issue is with people from other regions telling me how my region of the world should do things. Me thinks they should worry themselves with their own shitshows as they usually have quite the laundry list of broken things at home to contend with.

I won't go so far as to lump entire groups of people together but any time there's say a gun related tragedy here in the U.S. a lot of talking heads from Europe like to chime in and stick their noses in. "See, you yanks and all your damn bloody guns, that's what you get you morons". Yet as an American I don't feel it necessary when a homeowner defends themselves against crime with a gun to go butt in on European based sites and be like 'yea see? you damn euro pussies can't protect yourself, thank god we have guns'. When it comes time for British or German or French or even middle eastern elections, how many Americans first off - know who the hell is running for what office? Know what candidate xyz stands for? Feels it's somehow their compulsive duty to mouth off and tell whichever nation what they 'ought' to be doing? Yet let an American election take place and people come out of the woodwork to tell another place how to do their business and it doesn't even affect them. Half the time places I didn't even know had internet lmao.
I think one of the issues is Europe still sees America as a colony on a very basic level..they assume because alot of us look like them that we are the same. as a result they feel obliged to pull out a eurocentric yardstick and hold the US up to it,...they veiw us as errant europeans, that need to be lead back to european sensibilities...and they don't really realize just how different our cultures are.
 

Polargirl

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I think one of the issues is Europe still sees America as a colony on a very basic level..they assume because alot of us look like them that we are the same. as a result they feel obliged to pull out a eurocentric yardstick and hold the US up to it,...they veiw us as errant europeans, that need to be lead back to european sensibilities...and they don't really realize just how different our cultures are.
Well, kind of. They still think the world revolves around their continent and never accepted the global power shift of World War 2.
 

pulsevape

Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Of course California won't secede. Congress would never approve. The Swiss have plenty of guns.

It would be interesting to know what the end game is for Catalonia.
Nobody in California wants to seceds...a tiny handfull of nutjobs..it's nothing like Catalonia....but the major reason California can't secede is because if they do.... it gives a legal and moral precedent for each counties in California to secede from the state of California...there has been a political movment in Northeren California for decade to leave California and form the state of Jefferson..if they were allowed to leave California they could take their water with them, and if they rederected their water California would become a wasteland.....the liberals who live in the coastal cities do not represent northeren and eastern California.once you leave the coast... California becomes pretty red pretty quick.
 

Polargirl

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Nobody in California wants to seceds...a tiny handfull of nutjobs..it's nothing like Catalonia....but the major reason California can't secede is because if they do.... it gives a legal and moral precedent for each counties in California to secede from the state of California...there has been a political movment in Northeren California for decade to leave California and form the state of Jefferson..if they were allowed to leave California they could take their water with them, and if they rederected their water California would become a wasteland.....the liberals who live in the coastal cities do not represent northeren and eastern California.
Having lived in Southern Oregon for a few years, I am quite aware of the State of Jefferson. Ideally, it would end up being a state in the Cascadian Republic rather than the US if these people had their way.
 

Rossum

Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Well, kind of. They still think the world revolves around their continent and never accepted the global power shift of World War 2.
I think the EU (and the common Euro currency) was an attempt to claw back some of the prestige that Europe lost during the last century. However, it came at a high cost. Europe does not have a common culture, or a common language, and there are still quite a few ethnic groups that really don't like each other very much.
 

Polargirl

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I think the EU (and the common Euro currency) was an attempt to claw back some of the prestige that Europe lost during the last century. However, it came at a high cost. Europe does not have a common culture, or a common language, and there are still quite a few ethnic groups that really don't like each other very much.
It seems like it now trying to be a Fourth Reich masquerading as 'Europe' with Germany being the Texas like state where the most recruits come from (Muslim countries from other continents originally) with Sweden being a California like defense contractor state.
 

pulsevape

Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I think the EU (and the common Euro currency) was an attempt to claw back some of the prestige that Europe lost during the last century. However, it came at a high cost. Europe does not have a common culture, or a common language, and there are still quite a few ethnic groups that really don't like each other very much.
couple that with the fact that the EU is intent on erasing the european peoples..it is understandable the Union is dissolving.
 

pulsevape

Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
It seems like it now trying to be a Fourth Reich masquerading as 'Europe' with Germany being the Texas like state where the most recruits come from (Muslim countries from other continents originally) with Sweden being a California like defense contractor state.
more like Germany masquerading as a country and not the headquarters of the Rothschild's Zionist central banks which is what it is.
 
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Synphul

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Personally I don't think the EU sounds great coming from this side of the world, would be a shame for diverse cultures and identities to become blended together. I love meat and beans, not thrilled with taco hell's meat/bean blendola one size fits all paste.

On the other hand Europe is also a lot different. I can see where border issues could be a pain in the ass especially when it comes to trade and taxation or other things. They've got like 6 or more nations shoved into a landmass the size of a place mat. For them international trade is a 30min drive where ours is more like interaction from halfway around the globe aside from Canada/Mexico.

We solved a lot of that issue by having states within a nation under national rule in effect 'erasing' the borders for the most part when it comes to travel and trade. However as large as we are, we don't face those issues so don't need the structure of the EU. It would be different if each state was its own nation but our circumstance isn't the same. What many who enjoy the consolidation of the EU don't seem to understand, our nation already provides that sort of common structure without the EU.

Smaller clustered nations inherently face different hurdles than one with a larger landmass and different resources. Not saying we don't need trade but our nation is pretty well blessed. It's not singularly farming or tech or mining. We have everything from fishing markets to coal and materials mining to oil drilling to farmland with produce, grains, animals raised for meat. Not to mention manufacturing, tech and tourism. Other nations feel the need for global trade more strongly if they rely more heavily on just tourism and particular crops. Comparatively we're a lot more self sufficient that way.
 

Polargirl

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The thing many people don't seem to realize is that states and the people in them between 1789-1860 perceived themselves in a manner similar to 'states' perceive themselves relative to the EU today. The US Constitution never addressed the issue before the civil war unlike EU treaties that give some countries like the UK the right to withdraw at will but has an extremely vague process.
 

Rossum

Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
On the other hand Europe is also a lot different. I can see where border issues could be a pain in the ass especially when it comes to trade and taxation or other things. They've got like 6 or more nations shoved into a landmass the size of a place mat. For them international trade is a 30min drive where ours is more like interaction from halfway around the globe aside from Canada/Mexico.
If the EU had stuck to being a free trade and open borders association between its members instead of becoming an overbearing bureaucracy trying to control all aspects of people's lives, it would not have garnered the resentment it has. Of course the same thing is true of our own federal government.
 

Polargirl

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If the EU had stuck to being a free trade and open borders association between its members instead of becoming an overbearing bureaucracy trying to control all aspects of people's lives, it would not have garnered the resentment it has. Of course the same thing is true of our own federal government.
1789-1860. Economic unions eventually lead to political ones.
 

Rossum

Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
After World War 2, Europe vowed never to repeat it's history so they decided to repeat America's instead.
Not quite that bad. I don't see an EU naval blockade of the UK's ports, nor do I think the EU is going to invade the UK and burn everything they encounter. ;)
 

Polargirl

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Not quite that bad. I don't see an EU naval blockade of the UK's ports, nor do I think the EU is going to invade the UK and burn everything they encounter. ;)
I don't quite see the path from here to that but I would wait until the Catalonia crisis and Brexit negotiations go before being that certain especially now that one of the Visegrad nations has their own Trump.

I don't know how bitterness from Brussels sprouts once the denial stage is over and the EU's nuisances combine into one big existential threat.

Don't Know about a naval blockade but a comparably punitive measure is certainly possible when the divorce bill isn't settled. The EU has 'refugees' already in the UK that would do the burning. A future EU army was probably the real reason they were invited to Europe. Hell, they already have started burning the UK and a good part of Europe.
 

pulsevape

Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Not exactly Catalonia yet but it is a step in that direction.
The EU's war to erase the european people's is the straw that will break it's back...alot of europeans recognize that the fight against the EU is a fight for survival.one of the main motivations for this move in Italy was the invasion of third worlders into Italy which Rome supports.
 

Polargirl

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The EU's war to erase the european people's is the straw that will break it's back...alot of europeans recognize that the fight against the EU is a fight for survival.one of the main motivations for this move in Italy was the invasion of third worlders into Italy which Rome supports.

Visegrad, Veneto/Lombardy, Brexit - UK, and Catalonia. Like I stated in an earlier posts, the EU's nuanced are growing and eventually will be able to fight back.
 

pulsevape

Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Visegrad, Veneto/Lombardy, Brexit - UK, and Catalonia. Like I stated in an earlier posts, the EU's nuanced are growing and eventually will be able to fight back.
not to mention Austria and Czech republic.Poland.The globalist agenda is being rejected.
 

Polargirl

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not to mention Austria and Czech republic.Poland.The globalist agenda is being rejected.
Czech Republic and Poland are part of Visegrad as are Slovakia and Hungary. Austria isn't but might just ally closer.
 

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