Toddler dies after ingesting nicotine

[5150sick]

http://www.myfoxny.com/story/27602827/toddler-dies-nicotine

Edit: Source#2 http://news10.com/2014/12/10/fort-plain-child-dead-after-ingesting-liquid-nicotine/

Edit 6:38pm 12/11/14 - The best article on this tragedy I have found to date:
http://pix11.com/2014/12/11/ny-toddler-dies-after-ingesting-liquid-nicotine-for-e-cigarette/

 

[UncleRJ]

That is really sad news.

But where were the parents?

 

[5150sick]

This part of the article irritates the shit out of me:
"Liquid nicotine is legally sold in New York as a supplement to e-cigarettes. The chemical must be diluted before being used."

it should read:
Liquid nicotine is legally sold in New York as a supplement to e-cigarettes. The chemical must be diluted before being SOLD.

 

[Smoky Blue]

That is really sad news.

But where were the parents?

exactly what i am thinking and i havent had a chance to read the article..

5150.. thanks for all you post up.. i do catch a few of them

 

[Time]

That sucks.

The article includes a factoid about pure nicotine but it isn't actually stated that the child drank pure nicotine. I can vape myself sick on 6mg. I'm afraid that dilution of the nicotine does not make it safe. A one year old drinking 10ml of tasty apple flavored 24mg nic could kill.

And pure nicotine is legal and does not and should not require dilution before sale.

 

[Smoky Blue]

That sucks.

The article includes a factoid about pure nicotine but it isn't actually stated that the child drank pure nicotine. I can vape myself sick on 6mg. I'm afraid that dilution of the nicotine does not make it safe. A one year old drinking 10ml of tasty apple flavored 24mg nic could kill.

And pure nicotine is legal and does not and should not require dilution before sale.

and like my Uncle says.. where were the parents?? where???

That is really sad news.

But where were the parents?

 

[Time]

and like my Uncle says.. where were the parents?? where???

Yep. I understand that viewpoint.

But I don't like to go there usually. Bad things sometimes happen to good people. And in the political realm of regulation, it concedes a need. Big Tobacco, "People cannot be trusted to have liquid nicotine at any strength. Nicotine needs to be regulated and ejuice should only be sold in pre-made non refillable cartos for the safety of everyone."

Can you think of a better way to corner a market?

 

[Smoky Blue]

I know, Time.. still it's a heart breaker..

because of these events, and the greed of big t and other abc's, it is coming.. by this summer and i hope we all are braced for it.
it's sad..

 

[kelli]

Yep. I understand that viewpoint.

But I don't like to go there usually. Bad things sometimes happen to good people. And in the political realm of regulation, it concedes a need. Big Tobacco, "People cannot be trusted to have liquid nicotine at any strength. Nicotine needs to be regulated and ejuice should only be sold in pre-made non refillable cartos for the safety of everyone."

Can you think of a better way to corner a market?

you could make the same argument for guns. tons of kids have killed themselves accidentally with guns irresponsibly left where they could reach them. but that's ok....it's not the gun's fault. but one child dies of nicotine poisoning and it's all hands on deck to ban nicotine! ffs. get a grip people.

it is a tragedy, but the sad truth is kids will get into things, and sometimes they will be hurt or killed in the process. you can't make the world 100% safe.

 

[Celtic Fog]

If this happened in any other state, I might believe it.

 

[5150sick]

"Police in the village of Fort Plain tell media outlets emergency workers were called to a home shortly after 4 p.m. Tuesday. They found a 1-year-old boy unconscious.

The boy was taken by ambulance to a hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

Police say they believe the poisoning was an accident."




I would like to know exactly how long it would take a child to become unconscious after ingesting liquid nicotine.
Then what strength of liquid nicotine and how much before we call this a tragic accident and not a case of child neglect.


Theres a big difference between a kid taking a swig of 2.4% flavored ejuice and going instantly unconscious and a kid slowly forcing down a whole 50ml over a period of 6 hours while mom was down the street partying.

This IS a horrible tragedy but I would like to learn the 'rest of the story' before passing judgment.

 

[5150sick]

That sucks.

The article includes a factoid about pure nicotine but it isn't actually stated that the child drank pure nicotine. I can vape myself sick on 6mg. I'm afraid that dilution of the nicotine does not make it safe. A one year old drinking 10ml of tasty apple flavored 24mg nic could kill.

And pure nicotine is legal and does not and should not require dilution before sale.

You are absolutely correct just as liquid nicotine was used for years as a pesticide and was perfectly legal.
Nicotine is the tobacco plants natural defense against insects.

 

[skoony]

i posted this story on another forum and have been following it
or i might say have been trying to follow it. the apparent lack
of any follow up stories good bad or indifferent has me concerned.
today i called the Fort Plain police dept. and several media outlets
in the area and could not find out anything other than that which
was in the initial reports. the officer at the police department acknowledged
they where receiving calls from news outlets from across the country.
with out even any knee jerk anti vaping stories from the usual suspects
is a cause for concern. the only thing the officer could tell me was there is
an on going investigation.
me thinks something is a foot.
regards
mike

 

[Joshua Iles]

If ya have kids and u have things in your house like drano bleach eliquid whatever u don't want them drinking lock it up somewhere, whatever. They make these little things called safes, and if u have a curious child who likes to drink whatever they can find, be a responsible parent and use something to secure your non digestables better then leaving it on the kitchen counter.

 

[nightshard]

Same thing happened to a 2yo last year in Israel.
It's the hazardous combination of the urge to put everything in their mouth and their small body weight.
Sad.

 

[skoony]

Same thing happened to a 2yo last year in Israel.
It's the hazardous combination of the urge to put everything in their mouth and their small body weight.
Sad.

i investigated that incident also. other than the initial story in the Jerusalem Post there are no follow up stories
what so ever. no toxicology reports,expert interviews,man on the street comments,not even the usual hack
pieces. any reference you find just goes back to the original story. i suspect it is bogus. Israel's anti vaping
crusade makes ours look like a cub scout meeting.
regards
mike

 

[Iamme]

This is sad. However, seeing as the parents purchased the nicotine and left it within reach (a one year old can't climb on top the refrigerator) the parents should be charged with child endangerment and involuntary murder, manslaughter at the least. Take the focus off of us vaping and blame who should be. The parents did not keep their stuff in a safe place. Ejuice did not kill their child, they did. maybe if the legal system forced these parents to pay for their negligent acts then we wouldn't see this happen. It says on almost all juice labels that it can be toxic and KEEP AWAY FROM CHILDREN. This is unfortunate, but the parents should pay for the event, not the vaping community.

 

[nightshard]

Still banning e-liquid because someone could drink them, makes no sense to me.
It's like saying lets ban bleach or anti freeze.

If you're an adult you should know better and if you have toddlers you should keep them safe.

 

[CaFF]

Hell, when I was 7-8yo, I had a real chemistry set with things like Radium, Sulfur and Hydrochloric Acid in it. I also had very sharp Erector set parts with electric motors and OMG, I coulda poked an eye out...

I didn't eat or drink 'em. And, I still have both eyes.

Granted, a 1yo kid is not capable of making wise choices on their own. That's why we have parents.
If you aren't gonna take care of your kids and teach them things like common sense, don't have any.

 

[dragonpuff]

I saw this on fb first, and I'm banking on the story being bogus... that child would have to drink an incredible amount of e-liquid, even at 24mg, to go unconscious, and before that he would have vomited... but there is no report whatsoever of the kid vomiting, nor how long the kid was left alone for (and a 1 year old you really can't leave alone for 5 seconds, much less long enough to drink 60ml of gross-tasting e-liquid....). As a matter of fact, there are no details on this story at all, not even an autopsy technician to confirm the cause of death. That's fishy as fuck.

Also, remember this is coming out of New York state, the same state that very recently tried to ban bottled e-liquid from being sold anywhere, and may try again next year...

My guess is, the guardian (whoever was there) had some kind of illegal drug that the kid got into so he/she dumped out a bottle of e-liquid and told the cops the kid got a hold of it so he/she wouldn't get in trouble, and the media latched onto the story under the urging of some of our "finest" legislators who really want their law passed next year... we here in New York are going to have a fun time dealing with this shit when it hits the fan -_-

 

[Browncoat]

And so it begins...

Link to story

 

[vaperature]

Before this week, the only confirmed death related to liquid nicotine happened in 2012 when a man injected himself with the substance, according to the American Association of Poison Control Centers.

I want to know what's up with that one.

 

[Browncoat]

I hate the entire tone of this article. It's typical sensationalist "journalism", laced with opinion and either:

• A) Poorly researched
• B) Cleverly worded to sway opinion

They make it sound as if we're vaping concentrated high dose nicotine with a little flavoring tossed in. Mostly in bright colors/flavors/bottles that "appeal" to children. As if this stuff comes in Happy Meals or something. The photo caption is also misleading:

PHOTO: Liquid nicotine can be a powerful toxin when swallowed or if even gotten on the skin.

...as if it's the same thing as battery acid.

 

[vaperature]

On the other hand better safe than sorry. I live alone and the chances of a child getting into my 100mg nic stash in the freezer is between slim and none but nonetheless I have it marked with a skull and crossbone just to be safe.

 

[vaperature]

The story forgot to mention "parent accountability". It's sad that a child died. However, parents need to understand to lock up, put away, etc. substances that may cause ill effects on their children, pets, mentally challenged folks, etc.

Agreed. There have been more laundry detergent related deaths than there have been nicotine related deaths by far. Juice vendors can only go so far to make the products safe, the rest is a parents' responsibility.

 

[jensy]

First off do they not realize what e juice actually tastes like . Gummy bear liquid vaped would be good but, tasting it would awful and it would burn. Secondly a lot of legal substances that are sold if ingested can kill. Are they going to regulate Drano ? Most definitely where is parental responsibility in all this.

 

[Browncoat]

Hopefully there will be a followup article, but I doubt it.

Seems reasonable to expect some parental negligence here. I'm getting a mental picture of a dirty apartment, and some wife-beater wearing degenerate leaving his gallon bottle of concentrated nic sitting out on the kitchen table. I can't imagine this would happen from a mixed bottle of juice, but I could be wrong.

 

[kelli]

this incident was discussed in another thread last week, but darned if i know what happened to it.

 

[Whiskey]

this incident was discussed in another thread last week, but darned if i know what happened to it.

I just merged the 2 threads, The first story was in Bad news area posted by 5150, see start of thread

 

[kelli]

I just merged the 2 threads, The first story was in Bad news area posted by 510, see start of thread

ah, so you did.

 

[Time]

Huge mistake to blame parents if you're concerned for regulation, IMO.

You make the argument for the regulators. If I was hell bent on regulating nic and you told me it's negligent parents fault, I'm gonna say, "You're right. And since we cannot control what parents do to protect their children, we must ban these products in this form so it does not happen again."

Best to just call it a sad accident and leave it alone.

 

[Whiskey]

And then you get "KIDS" on FB starting a page up saying "kids right to vape" one saying they use it for other drugs.......Where have all the brains disappeared to????

 

[Browncoat]

And then you get "KIDS" on FB starting a page up saying "kids right to vape" one saying they use it for other drugs.......Where have all the brains disappeared to????

I'm not advocating for kids vaping or anything, but it's definitely better than picking up smoking or doing drugs.

I mean, how harmful is nicotine, really? It's arguably no worse than sugar or caffeine. I have a few teenagers in the house, and we buy diet soda for them, when they're allowed to have it. They act like total morons when they're jazzed up on all that junk.

 

[OB61887]

It is a sad situation, but this could easily be any number of cleaning fluids that can be obtained easier than nicotine. If it was flavored e-juice I think it would be a more valid point, but still a responsibility of the parents to keep it out of reach.

Also, I am all for kids vaping instead of drugs or smoking but that in no way justifies any kind of "kids right to vape". I think we would all agree on that. It is like my father said to me in high school. "I know you will drink and have sex. That does not mean I won't make it as hard for you as I can. But if you are ever in trouble, call me."

I believe adults should have the right to vape just as we have the right to smoke and drink and eat cheese (I love cheese sooooo much) which are all arguably more dangerous than vaping. And I believe children will find a way to vape if they want because they are much craftier than most people give them credit for. But just because they will break rules does not mean we should give up on trying to enforce them.

 

[Whiskey]

I'm not advocating for kids vaping or anything, but it's definitely better than picking up smoking or doing drugs.

I mean, how harmful is nicotine, really? It's arguably no worse than sugar or caffeine. I have a few teenagers in the house, and we buy diet soda for them, when they're allowed to have it. They act like total morons when they're jazzed up on all that junk.

They are not JUST using Nic in these and I will NEVER advocate nor defend minors/kids use of these type of things period, That's my opinion, we all have them

 

[Browncoat]

I'm just saying there are worse things that kids could be doing. And how much of the science is real? So much of that stuff has an agenda behind it, it's difficult to know which reports are credible.

DDT, for example. Used to treat malaria during WWII, and as a pesticide later. Some chick writes a book and the stuff gets banned. Saccharine, aspartame, hell...they can't even settle on which diet foods are actually good or bad for you. The scientific community releases a report claiming some substance is the next best thing, and without fail, 10 years later another report says it's been the stuff that's silently killing all of us.

 

[Iamme]

First off do they not realize what e juice actually tastes like . Gummy bear liquid vaped would be good but, tasting it would awful and it would burn. Secondly a lot of legal substances that are sold if ingested can kill. Are they going to regulate Drano ? Most definitely where is parental responsibility in all this.

Good point I never thought of. If juice spills all over when I over drip. I will lick it off my hand. Just about everyone says how the hell can you do that. I like it when my atty kicks a little juice up on my lip. Guess I'm a freak.

 

[OB61887]

I have some juice that smells delicious and taste like chemicals. Most of my juice is this way. However, my peanut cookie juice actually taste similar to how it smells when I get a drop here and there.

 

[5150sick]

Honestly my low nic (6mg/ml) max VG juice from juicemafia that I use in my Mutation X V2 and Dark hoarse RDA's on my 120 watt raptor/hammond boxes tastes just like what it says on the bottle.

I lick it off the RDA if it runs out an air hole or if some runs down the side of the bottle I lick it right off and keep going like nothing happened.
I never got sick.
But at .6% nic I could probably ingest a pretty large amount with out feeling ill.
3.6% to 2.4% tastes like shit and would make a person turn green pretty fast.

Come on, I KNOW i'm not the only one here who puts a drop on my finger and tastes it when I get a eliquid in order to see if i'm going to like it before loading it up in the atty.
Am I???

 

[Whiskey]

Guilty