Staple Claptons

[DeepInTheAbyss]

So I wanna start making staples. My regular build is a fused clapton with dual core 26 gauge ka1 and 40 gauge ka1 wrap. 3mm id and 6 wraps. How woild this translate to staples? What measurement of ribbon wires would I have to buy? Im not really sure how the measurements work. Sometimes i even use dual core 24 gauge instead of 26 and downsize to 4 wraps. I have an idea of how to build them but I dont know what to order. Can you even do dual coils with staples? If so what would it require. Single coils have always been inferior to dual for me.

 

[MrMeowgi]

There's a thread here somewhere for all kinds of Staples. I use .4 ribbon more than .3 but those are usually the best to work with. The thicker it is the harder to coil. Other builders here way better than I that will jump in eventually so just hold tight.

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[DeepInTheAbyss]

One of the issues im also having is i have supposedly high quality swivels but they still bind. I can only do 2 cores of round wire. Anymore and they all twist together. Any suggestions? Is there any swivels that will prevent this?

 

[MrMeowgi]

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...hare_tid=337271&share_fid=151776&share_type=t

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[DeepInTheAbyss]

Ive heard that you have to match the ribbon to the round wire though. Otherwise wouldnt you have loose/crammed wire in the center?

 

[MrMeowgi]

Most just use fishing swivels I think. I've got a spinLt. 3d printed with a bearing in it.

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[MrMeowgi]

Have to prep the wire. Get it together and tight. Then wrap ribbon on one end. Get it all straight again and wrap the other end. To keep the ribbon from moving. You can use frames. Makes it easier for me

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[WPMac]

Let's start at the beginning - I'm going to assume your legs come off in the same direction and that your running single coil.
2x 26gKA1, 3mmID,5.5 wrap is around .4 ohms
24g 3.5 wraps is +/-.17 ohms
Those are MASSIVELY different vapes. So, It's hard to tell what kind of vape experience your looking for, and if your running dual coil the 24g is bordering on dangerous with .085 ohms.

For the sake of argument lets go with the 26g single coil at 0.4 ohms. I suggest you familiarize yourself with http://www.steam-engine.org/wirewiz.html (or another coil building tool) before delving into anything ... but there are some tricks you can use for quick numbers.

There are staples - Ribbon stacked together to make a rectangle and then clapton around them.
26g is easy since it sits right at .4mm. So 2 of them would be approx .4x.8. If you want to make a staple close to it just get some .4x.1 ribbon and make it 8 ply thick. The resistance will be a smidge lower at .38 since there is a little more wire vs a round core.
Example of a staple:


Framed staples - Ribbon stacked together, then round wire "framed" on the outside of the flat side of the ribbon.
This is where things will change a lot. Your going to have to drop the size of your round wire to accommodate the extra metal in the ribbon to achieve a similar resistance. To get ~.4 ohms you'll need a 3 ply ribbon stack of .3x.1 ribbon with 28g frames (.39 ohms)
Example of a framed staple, with the cores ready for fusing.


As far as swivels go ... make sure your getting ball bearing swivels. If you picked up barrel swivels then yah they are going to lock up BAD. Before I got a custom swivel I used cheaper ball bearing swivels from walmart. If you already have ball bearing swivels and they are still locking up then you will either have to put less tension on them, or get a higher test.

 

[DeepInTheAbyss]

Whats the difference between regular staples and framed staples in terms of performance or flavor?

 

[DeepInTheAbyss]

I know the dual 24g was .08 but i use it in a triple battery regulated mod so ive always thought it was good. My batteries are rated at 60 amps combined but i know thats not how the math really works. I just know that 3 batteries rated at 20 amp continuous discharge can take high amps. Ive thought about getting batterues rated for 30 amps individually.

 

[DeepInTheAbyss]

Also staples are pretty much the optimal form of performance in general are they not?

 

[WPMac]

Whats the difference between regular staples and framed staples in terms of performance or flavor?

All things being equal (ohms/id/wraps/ect...), I find Framed staples to preform better. Maybe a smidge less cloudy. But flavor is better and it wicks better.

I know the dual 24g was .08 but i use it in a triple battery regulated mod so ive always thought it was good. My batteries are rated at 60 amps combined but i know thats not how the math really works. I just know that 3 batteries rated at 20 amp continuous discharge can take high amps. Ive thought about getting batterues rated for 30 amps individually.

You should be fine on any 3 batt regulated mod with that. You can run .08 on any regulated device safely. Regulated mods don't concern themselves with ohms. It's all about watts. A properly rated 20a battery, on a regulated mod, can handle about ~75w at full charge, 66w at nominal voltage, and 57w at low volt. This is accounting for chip efficiency ... but it doesn't account for voltage sag. So, to be uber safe, you can either just drop each of those down a few watts, or not run your battery low. I just wanted to throw it out there. Lots of uninformed people throwing wire around at dangerous levels. Good to know your not one of them

 

[DeepInTheAbyss]

Yeah i run the 26 gauge core at 100-120 watts and... The 24 gauge core at 130-150 to account for heat capacity in the wire. The 24g dual core barely fires at anything under 100. And i like intense hits so 130-140... It pulls 34 amps at 150 watts... Recently ive just been doing dual 26g. Theyre very bulky but i need to move away from fused claptons and build staples. I can spin fused claptons in my sleep, like almost max drill speed. I have ball bearing swivels but they still lock up even if i drill slowly... Which is weird because theyre rated for like 200 pounds. Dont know whats going on with that. I cant do anymore than 2 cores because they'll twist together. And ive been thinking its time to take a step up, staples provide even more surface area at similar heat capacity and ohms. I ordered a bunch of ribbon to start on basic staples. And ran through several builds in a coil calculator. I also am switching to pure nichrome from pure kanthal for that crispy color and the flavor. The only disadvantage is lower ohms. The heat capacity for ni80 is higher than kanthal but isnt that irrelevant since it has a fadter ramp up time? Isnt that true?

 

[WPMac]

Yeah i run the 26 gauge core at 100-120 watts and... The 24 gauge core at 130-150 to account for heat capacity in the wire. The 24g dual core barely fires at anything under 100. And i like intense hits so 130-140... It pulls 34 amps at 150 watts... Recently ive just been doing dual 26g. Theyre very bulky but i need to move away from fused claptons and build staples. I can spin fused claptons in my sleep, like almost max drill speed. I have ball bearing swivels but they still lock up even if i drill slowly... Which is weird because theyre rated for like 200 pounds. Dont know whats going on with that. I cant do anymore than 2 cores because they'll twist together. And ive been thinking its time to take a step up, staples provide even more surface area at similar heat capacity and ohms. I ordered a bunch of ribbon to start on basic staples. And ran through several builds in a coil calculator. I also am switching to pure nichrome from pure kanthal for that crispy color and the flavor. The only disadvantage is lower ohms. The heat capacity for ni80 is higher than kanthal but isnt that irrelevant since it has a fadter ramp up time? Isnt that true?

It definitely has a faster ramp. And, depending on who you talk to, a much cleaner vape. I typically build variations on framed staples and almost always use kanthal ribbon. I do this to help keep the ohms at a vapable resistance since I am often using lots of ribbon. I say this because when I do make full ni80 builds I notice a difference in taste. The kenthal builds sometimes throw a metallic taste at me that I didn't notice before i started vaping Ni80.

 

[DeepInTheAbyss]

Do you think the ramp up difference is enough to say that a nichrome build with 200 heat capacity will heat as fast as a kanthal with a 150 heat capacity?

 

[WPMac]

Do you think the ramp up difference is enough to say that a nichrome build with 200 heat capacity will heat as fast as a kanthal with a 150 heat capacity?

Truth be told ... In all of my years of vaping I've only ever glanced at the heat capacity of builds. So I am not familiar with how that stat applies to the vape experience itself. I'm a tinkerer, and up until recently, only vaped on regulated devices. So, If I don't like the heat level I boost the watts. If it gets to hot and dries out before I hit max safe watts, yet still isn't a satisfying vape, I won't build it again.
I guess what I'm trying to say isn't I can't answer your question lol ...