Stainless mesh vs everything else...

[Haadkoe]

I keep hearing about the great taste of properly setup Genny tanks using stainless mesh as wick, and saw a post the other day of someone using a mesh "slug" style wick in a dripper. I've used nothing but Japanese cotton in my rda's, but the mesh in a dripper intrigues me.

If the flavor is on point, the capillary action can keep up, and rewicking becomes obsolete as the mesh wick can be dry burned, then why aren't more people using mesh wicking?

For those who have used mesh wicks in drippers, any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. I'm curious if people found their best results with just rolled mesh, or mesh with a silica core, what gauge silica and mesh, or any other helpful details for someone who's never worked with the stuff before.

 

[KKen]

That might have been my pic of the Hellfire w/ the slug wick. In all honesty, vape preferences change, and sometimes you go a completely different direction. I was an avid RDA user, low resistance, organic cotton, lung hits full of thick vapor and flavor. After getting the hang of using a genisis atomizer, I started to move away from cloud chasing and pretty much abandoned my RDA.

When I first saw the hellfire, I was pretty intrigued by its super tiny size, and after googling different builds on it, I noticed most people preferred it with mesh over cotton. (keep in mind the stock airhole is only 1mm, so its definitely geared toward flavor chasing)

After giving it a try, and going back and forth with cotton, was pretty obvious, at least to me, that the flavor was much cleaner, tastier, and you didn't need to go below 1ohm to get even better flavor than if I had a standard microcoil and cotton build at super sub ohm resistances.

With that said, I don't even like my KF4 anymore because I just don't like cotton builds. As good as an RTA that may be, its still too muted compared to a Genisis and now with this dripper I've become accustomed to using. Its basically a Genisis dripper that I can change flavors on the fly without having any issues with flavor crossover. To clean, I just pulse it dry and blow off the residue, and its as good as new again. Setup can be a pain, but once you have that out of the way, like any genisis atomizer, you can keep going for months and months without having to change anything out.

To answer, or try to offer you my take on your question why more people don't use mesh, I think mainly because it can be a frustrating build to master. It took me well over 2 years before I decided to try what all the fuss was about with genisis tanks. From there, there were several attempts that failed horribly until I nailed my first build right, but once I got it, never looked back

I'm sure others can offer more insight on this, but long story short, mesh is more for flavor than clouds.

 

[KKen]

Oh, forgot to mention as well, but Mesh in an airy dripper doesn't work very well IMO. Tried a slug in my SOD5k dripper and just wasn't the same, maybe the single airhole SOD5k cap might fare a bit better, but then again, it just comes down to personal preference anyway.

As for your other Q regarding how to run your mesh, no need to core it with silica or anything, it will wick perfectly fine as it is.

 

[Kent B Marshall]

That might have been my pic of the Hellfire w/ the slug wick. In all honesty, vape preferences change, and sometimes you go a completely different direction. I was an avid RDA user, low resistance, organic cotton, lung hits full of thick vapor and flavor. After getting the hang of using a genisis atomizer, I started to move away from cloud chasing and pretty much abandoned my RDA.

When I first saw the hellfire, I was pretty intrigued by its super tiny size, and after googling different builds on it, I noticed most people preferred it with mesh over cotton. (keep in mind the stock airhole is only 1mm, so its definitely geared toward flavor chasing)

After giving it a try, and going back and forth with cotton, was pretty obvious, at least to me, that the flavor was much cleaner, tastier, and you didn't need to go below 1ohm to get even better flavor than if I had a standard microcoil and cotton build at super sub ohm resistances.

With that said, I don't even like my KF4 anymore because I just don't like cotton builds. As good as an RTA that may be, its still too muted compared to a Genisis and now with this dripper I've become accustomed to using. Its basically a Genisis dripper that I can change flavors on the fly without having any issues with flavor crossover. To clean, I just pulse it dry and blow off the residue, and its as good as new again. Setup can be a pain, but once you have that out of the way, like any genisis atomizer, you can keep going for months and months without having to change anything out.

To answer, or try to offer you my take on your question why more people don't use mesh, I think mainly because it can be a frustrating build to master. It took me well over 2 years before I decided to try what all the fuss was about with genisis tanks. From there, there were several attempts that failed horribly until I nailed my first build right, but once I got it, never looked back

I'm sure others can offer more insight on this, but long story short, mesh is more for flavor than clouds.

LOL Frustrating build to master is an understatement. For me it was a huge learning curve. Have to agree flavor is great on a properly operating Genisis. That was several years ago. I still use mine several times a week because of the flavor

 

[Haadkoe]

Yes, that must have been your build that I was referring to having seen Ken. Thanks for taking the time to enlighten me. I'm definitely interested in giving this stuff a try. A few more questions though, if you don't mind.

How do coarser vs finer meshes perform differently when it comes to what matters most to us vapers (wicking, clogging/gunking, taste, etc?) Which # range is best suited to our needs?

As far as rolling the mesh into a wick is concerned, any tips on how to get it rolled up and manipulate it into the right shape? Also, how tightly are we trying to roll it?

Torching the mesh oxidizes it and is what keeps the mesh from shorting on the coil or deck, right? Any tips here? We trying to get it sooty with a bic, or are we looking for a scientific-y reaction that only a propane torch can accomplish?

If we buy mesh from somewhere other than a vape shop, are there any specific attributes we're looking for aside from ensuring its stainless and not galvanized? (301,304,???)

...and what about stainless rope? Ever try that?

So many questions, but thanks for helping educate the needy.

 

[2c5000]

i find that SS mesh gives a terrible flavor. tried twice in RDAs and never again.

may have something to do with airflow, but i could taste the SS big time.

i find readyXwick provides the best flavor out of all the options.

 

[Haadkoe]

They won't ship ceramic wick outside of the USA, and I'm not aware of any Canadian vendors for the stuff. I'd like to try it one day though.

(PS 2c5000, ot for this foum and thread, but I was following things on fc a while back and recognized your avatar. Ended up with a derringer on a smpl, single coil, 22ga, silica. 1-3 sec on the button, tasty. Over 5sec, harsher but more complete. I find tapping my finger on the intake port while inhaling really brings out the taste. I think temp control is gonna revolutionize the game when it comes to that side of things. )

 

[2c5000]

They won't ship ceramic wick outside of the USA, and I'm not aware of any Canadian vendors for the stuff. I'd like to try it one day though.

(PS 2c5000, ot for this foum and thread, but I was following things on fc a while back and recognized your avatar. Ended up with a derringer on a smpl, single coil, 22ga, silica. 1-3 sec on the button, tasty. Over 5sec, harsher but more complete. I find tapping my finger on the intake port while inhaling really brings out the taste. I think temp control is gonna revolutionize the game when it comes to that side of things. )

oh thats right. didnt think of that.

temp control works just as well for that type of coil as it does for juice. in fact im planning on using an SX350j when i can afford it.

who are you over at that other place?

 

[Haadkoe]

oh thats right. didnt think of that.

temp control works just as well for that type of coil as it does for juice. in fact im planning on using an SX350j when i can afford it.

who are you over at that other place?

I never actually registered there, but spent a lot of time reading. Really wanted to try a sr-71/4, but never dropped the hammer for a variety of reasons. Started with rda's and haven't been back there very much since, tbh. Always looking for that holy grail though, lol.

 

[2c5000]

I never actually registered there, but spent a lot of time reading. Really wanted to try a sr-71/4, but never dropped the hammer for a variety of reasons. Started with rda's and haven't been back there very much since, tbh. Always looking for that holy grail though, lol.

gotcha. i wouldnt spend the funds on any of that stuff from G. he rubs me the wrong way and is in it for the money. the guy acts like he is some genius that brings so much innovation to the game. pffff whatevs.

we should PM to continue this conversation.

sorry for the derailment folks!

 

[KKen]

LOL Frustrating build to master is an understatement. For me it was a huge learning curve. Have to agree flavor is great on a properly operating Genisis. That was several years ago. I still use mine several times a week because of the flavor

When I started watching Scott Bonner's genesis reviews, that's when I started to pre-wrap my coils around the mesh first, then mount it. From there it became super easy to do, I noticed 3 out of about 5 builds never needed to be fiddled with, basically fired up evenly on the first few pulses whereas before, I was trying to wrap the wire around the mesh after setting it in the wick hole which 5 out of 5 times would require quite a bit of fiddling around with.

How do coarser vs finer meshes perform differently when it comes to what matters most to us vapers (wicking, clogging/gunking, taste, etc?) Which # range is best suited to our needs?

I cant say for sure, I've been happily using 316 grade SS 400 mesh, so I cant compare it to the others. There is a balance of the amount of juice a mesh wick will hold vs the speed it is able to wick, which is also affected by the grade of mesh as well as how tight, or loose you roll it. Will defer this one to someone who has tried more variety of meshes than I have

As far as rolling the mesh into a wick is concerned, any tips on how to get it rolled up and manipulate it into the right shape? Also, how tightly are we trying to roll it?

Torching the mesh oxidizes it and is what keeps the mesh from shorting on the coil or deck, right? Any tips here? We trying to get it sooty with a bic, or are we looking for a scientific-y reaction that only a propane torch can accomplish?

If we buy mesh from somewhere other than a vape shop, are there any specific attributes we're looking for aside from ensuring its stainless and not galvanized? (301,304,???)

...and what about stainless rope? Ever try that?

So many questions, but thanks for helping educate the needy.

If you are going for a U-wick or curved shape, you have to cut the mesh at a diagonal angle. It makes it easier to bend. I used a flexible copper wire as the core which helps me get it to the shape I want it. Once I torch the shape, I pull out the wire and left with a curved wick. I go as tight as I can, but always make sure the center is hollow.

Yes, the oxidation process will put a layer on the mesh preventing it from shorting. I dunno if a bic is enough, I just use a butane torch, some prefer propane because it heats up much faster. I only oxidize the mesh after I have it rolled, then quench and re-heat a few times before I finish off with soaking some pure VG on the wick and then light it on fire, letting it burn out on its own. This is just the way I do it, ask someone else and you probably will get a different response.

I opt to use 316 grade SS only, readily available at Kidney Puncher. Again, someone else may suggest something different.

Yes, SS cables works nice too, wicks very fast but I like to use mesh around the top where my coil will be wrapped around.

.

 

[Haadkoe]

Awesome! Thank you for taking the time to break it down for me. Those tips are going to prove very helpful should I ever get my hands on some of the stuff.

There is a "metal supermarket" nearby, which I may pop into and see if they have anything appropriate to try out, or I may call around to a couple of the original b&M's in the area to see if they have any lying around. Just for experimentations sake.

 

[KKen]

Or go to: http://www.kidneypuncher.com/rebuildable-supplies/?sort=featured
Supplies for Genisis atomizers are dirt cheap considering how long it will last you, and at least you will know exactly what grade and mesh/cable sizes you are getting.

 

[2c5000]

should I ever get my hands on some of the stuff.

There is a "metal supermarket" nearby, which I may pop into and see if they have anything appropriate to try out, or I may call around to a couple of the original b&M's in the area to see if they have any lying around. Just for experimentations sake.

there is always 316Twholesale.com. they sell SS mesh in all kinds of microns and sizes. decent prices to boot.

 

[KKen]

i find that SS mesh gives a terrible flavor. tried twice in RDAs and never again.

may have something to do with airflow, but i could taste the SS big time.

i find readyXwick provides the best flavor out of all the options.

Out of curiosity:

What gauge wire did you use?
Resistance of your build?
Type of coil? (spaced or micro, vertical, horizontal or angled?)
The RDA you put it in?
Shape of mesh; was is curved, straight, rolled tight or loose?

Thanks!

 

[2c5000]

Out of curiosity:

What gauge wire did you use?
Resistance of your build?
Type of coil? (spaced or micro, vertical, horizontal or angled?)
The RDA you put it in?
Shape of mesh; was is curved, straight, rolled tight or loose?

Thanks!

ive used 26-32 gauge

horizontal and spaced coils

at that time i was using the trusty igo-w

rolled tight if i remember correctly

what advice would you have for a tastier experience?

 

[KKen]

Steel taste has everything to do with the speed you are heating up the mesh vs. how quickly it is actually able to wick.

I would recommend using 30g wire to start with, shoot for 1ohm as a benchmark.

Build a U wick first, you have to cut the mesh sheet diagonally so it can bend. (you must use a wire than freely bends as your core)

After its rolled to the diameter you like, bend it to a U shape, torch it and quench with water. Next step is to bend the U with one tail higher than the other, same process, torch it, then quench. Now you can pull out the wire and continue on with the oxidation process however you like. Once the wick is done, slide another rod in one side which you will do to stabilize the wick so you can prewrap the wire tightly without pinching off the straw shape. I would go with 4 spaced coils to start, then just mount it on your posts, making sure one leg of the wick is always in contact with the base of your RDA.

Be sure the coils pulse absolutely evenly too, if not, that means one coil will always heat faster than the rest and you will get a hot steel taste. After it pulses evenly, drop some juice on the wick and you should be good to go!

 

[pulsevape]

i find that SS mesh gives a terrible flavor. tried twice in RDAs and never again.

may have something to do with airflow, but i could taste the SS big time.

i find readyXwick provides the best flavor out of all the options.

that's because your wick wasn't wicking fast enough for the coil you were using or you had a hot spot.

 

[pulsevape]

They won't ship ceramic wick outside of the USA, and I'm not aware of any Canadian vendors for the stuff. I'd like to try it one day though.

(PS 2c5000, ot for this foum and thread, but I was following things on fc a while back and recognized your avatar. Ended up with a derringer on a smpl, single coil, 22ga, silica. 1-3 sec on the button, tasty. Over 5sec, harsher but more complete. I find tapping my finger on the intake port while inhaling really brings out the taste. I think temp control is gonna revolutionize the game when it comes to that side of things. )

if you think ss mesh has a learning curve...ceramic has a bigger learning curve. the fc-2000 is the american made porous ceramic wick...there is a german company that makes a cramic wick for vaping you can get it from an english company http://www.zivipf.com/epages/63862298.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/63862298/Categories/"Keramik Docht"...it is more delicate than the fc-2000 and it doesn't wick as well.you can however make your own porous ceramic wicks out of a block of Aluminum Oxide porous ceramic. that is if you enjoy crafting things or if you are a masochist or a mental defective who enjoys tortue and head banging.

 

[pulsevape]

ive used 26-32 gauge

horizontal and spaced coils

at that time i was using the trusty igo-w

rolled tight if i remember correctly

what advice would you have for a tastier experience?

well first what is the PG/VG ratio you use....if you vape high VG 325 mesh seems to work better, if you vape 50/50 or higher 70/30 then 400,500,200superfine seems to work better.regardless of what you use mesh just doesn't wick as fast as cotton...it's not the wick for huge cloud chasing it is a wick for flavor chasing.if you're expecting it to act like cotton you will be disapointed.

 

[2c5000]

well first what is the PG/VG ratio you use....if you vape high VG 325 mesh seems to work better, if you vape 50/50 or higher 70/30 then 400,500,200superfine seems to work better.regardless of what you use mesh just doesn't wick as fast as cotton...it's not the wick for huge cloud chasing it is a wick for flavor chasing.if you're expecting it to act like cotton you will be disapointed.

i dont use juice at all. i use esolids.

anyway, looks like i have some tinkering to do.