arrowcrest
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Can I use SS 316L for coils in a temp control mod and what do I set the mod on " Ni200 or Ti " ?
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SS wire for Temp Control?
- Thread starter arrowcrest
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Ive tried contact coils with minimal luck but that was on 1 build.
Then i tried spaced and its working as designed.
Any thoughts on spaced or contact
Then i tried spaced and its working as designed.
Any thoughts on spaced or contact
Settled on a dual vertical parallel (Stream Crave) atty. 2.5ID, 10 wraps @ .19ohms. 55 watts, 520 degrees
Nice cool vape, good dense cloud. Satisfied with this build
Used the V2 profile listed above.
Ive noticed with SS you either need good spaced coils or REALLY good contact coils. Took me a minute to set it up but worth the hassle. This coming from a strictly TI user.
Nice cool vape, good dense cloud. Satisfied with this build
Used the V2 profile listed above.
Ive noticed with SS you either need good spaced coils or REALLY good contact coils. Took me a minute to set it up but worth the hassle. This coming from a strictly TI user.
I haven't had success using contact coils with SS in temp control. I always use spaced SS coils.
Really? I have contact coils in my Velocity mini on the SX M class that seem to work fine in manual TCR.
Really. Although I've only used stainless steel in temp mode on tanks using VTC Minis. I run kanthal Clapton coils on RDAs.
Seems to work very well on the SX!
The SX is definitely awesome.
Yep like the evicMini it's awesome! Crown coils on SS mode 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Next mod Inthink I might invest in the sx at moment I have three nice ones so no need and Christmas is here unless my husband surprises me but I asked for a laptop lol
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So this has been in other threads, but maybe we can have it in one thread...
I have my SS and been making coils. Others have had various problems for various reasons, but it seems to me now it's one problem... You can't use contact coils in TC.
There have been some inconsistent results. Building my deck, using power to burn coil and check for even heating... It's even. Nice even glow inside out on contact coil. But that isn't what TC does. It seems that the cold resistance is measured right. But once you put current to it, resistance goes up, but you can't see that it's even.
One a build last night, the two end wraps were glowing, and a line was cutting across the other coils. A glowing line where coils were contacting. So current was cutting across coils. TC would read the total resistance rise and cut power, but it's not even heat. Which means hot spots and burnt cotton and the full coil not heating.
My problem is cold vape even though I have temp at 570F. I think I'm going to have to space and have none touching anywhere. Unfortunately, than means less wire for my deck.
I have my SS and been making coils. Others have had various problems for various reasons, but it seems to me now it's one problem... You can't use contact coils in TC.
There have been some inconsistent results. Building my deck, using power to burn coil and check for even heating... It's even. Nice even glow inside out on contact coil. But that isn't what TC does. It seems that the cold resistance is measured right. But once you put current to it, resistance goes up, but you can't see that it's even.
One a build last night, the two end wraps were glowing, and a line was cutting across the other coils. A glowing line where coils were contacting. So current was cutting across coils. TC would read the total resistance rise and cut power, but it's not even heat. Which means hot spots and burnt cotton and the full coil not heating.
My problem is cold vape even though I have temp at 570F. I think I'm going to have to space and have none touching anywhere. Unfortunately, than means less wire for my deck.
With mine I had to use spaced wire or it was very erratic.
So one thing nice for sure .... I'm going to have to start spacing. My build now isn't really acting right... switch to power... 60w no sweat. Doing great. SS definitely has a lot of advantages for TC.... and if you want to turn it off... you can.
Please let us know if switching to spaced stainless steel coils works out better for you with TC. They have been great for me.
I talked about it a couple posts up... But basically, I think resistance is even across the whole coil. I think current, and therefore heat/resistance jumps across wraps. All the board looks at is total resistance rise. So it sees a rise, and cuts power accordingly. But that rise is only in a small part of the coil and not all of it. So you get power in a small part and not the whole coil. That is not utilizing the whole coil and producing vapor.
Most tend to complain about a cooler vape than should be, or burnt hit and not wicking right. I'm thinking it's not the whole coil and localized hot spots. In power mode it wouldn't be noticed. Power is delivered and eventually with contact coils it would heat even regardless.
My experience is that contact ss coils overshoot the temp target. I have tried it with the most perfect, beautifully placed contact coils and it's just not as accurate as spaced ss coils.
Best performance has been very tightly spaced coils. No dry burn, throw it in, wick it, vape it.
That's on the sx mini M, just got a rx200 but have only vaped triton ss coil on that.
Best performance has been very tightly spaced coils. No dry burn, throw it in, wick it, vape it.
That's on the sx mini M, just got a rx200 but have only vaped triton ss coil on that.
There is nothing unsafe about SS in our application. Like most metals, one thing to talk about welding, another talking about vaping. Most common SS has 15% nickle or less. But we are used to using nickle. 430 SS has 1% nickle or less if that bothers you. I think SS is going to be used a lot more.
In temp control I tried closed position and it was erratic until I started spacing them. I was also told to space it in temp control.
I run both spaced and microcoils on SS. Makes no difference at all with the 2 devices I use that support TC on SS.
Well, I made some spaced coils last night and it didn't solve my problem. My problem is a cold vape. I'm using 430 SS from crazy wire. I'm going to assume it is correct 430 wire. They sell a ton of SS products so I'm going to trust it's the proper alloy. I'm using the 430 curve from steam engine. I'm running my temp up to 570 and it's still not what I would expect.
On the Crown coils, it's 316 so 90,but everyone runs 101-105. I've done some burn tests and 105 is definitely in the ball park for accurate temp.
Seems a lot of people run a higher TCR on SS than what the wire is. Based on playing with other stuff, I'm going to have to bump up the TCR from 138 to maybe 145 to get my temp up. Spaced coils actually seem a tad cooler, and it's still irratic. Now the irratic part doesn't bother me. I can't really tell vaping even though the graph shows it.
On the Crown coils, it's 316 so 90,but everyone runs 101-105. I've done some burn tests and 105 is definitely in the ball park for accurate temp.
Seems a lot of people run a higher TCR on SS than what the wire is. Based on playing with other stuff, I'm going to have to bump up the TCR from 138 to maybe 145 to get my temp up. Spaced coils actually seem a tad cooler, and it's still irratic. Now the irratic part doesn't bother me. I can't really tell vaping even though the graph shows it.
I'm at a bit of a loss.... I'm using 430 that has a TCR of .00138. I went to juke it because my vape is hardly there. I had to go all the way to .00170 to get something I'm used to with other coils. This is on a spaced coil too. .00180 probably would not be too bad either. I don't exactly know what to think. That is a big change for a SS wire.
Just curious are you making your ajustments when the coil is at room tempature. And while at room temp are you locking your ohms. And when you do lock your ohms at room temp is it the correct ohm.
No. It doesn't seem to matter making TCR changes. Original reading of the coil still works. And I'm not locking ohms. That seems to work for irratic readings, but my build are stable. So I don't need to lock them.
The TCR does change things, and it's now what I would expect from other testing I've done. I'm at 500F on a 0.13 0.17 coil with 150w 10 hard 2 second preheat. The coil and wick have taken it and it is very similar in behavior and performance to Crown 0.25 coils.
The highest TCR I've seen for SS is 155 for 340. I'm at 170. Again, that's a huge change. But it's performing as it should. Also, the temp and ohms are jumpy on a pull, but that is the same for a contact or spaced coil. Now I can't guarantee nothing is touching on my spaced. Wraps or posts. I dropped a wrap but it was still tight to fit in. 8m going to have to use some 27g I have to get ohms up a bit, loose another wrap, and make sure nothing is touching for another test.
The TCR does change things, and it's now what I would expect from other testing I've done. I'm at 500F on a 0.13 0.17 coil with 150w 10 hard 2 second preheat. The coil and wick have taken it and it is very similar in behavior and performance to Crown 0.25 coils.
The highest TCR I've seen for SS is 155 for 340. I'm at 170. Again, that's a huge change. But it's performing as it should. Also, the temp and ohms are jumpy on a pull, but that is the same for a contact or spaced coil. Now I can't guarantee nothing is touching on my spaced. Wraps or posts. I dropped a wrap but it was still tight to fit in. 8m going to have to use some 27g I have to get ohms up a bit, loose another wrap, and make sure nothing is touching for another test.
f1r3b1rd
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Dude, so I have a weird idea on what's happening....
Been using SS for tc since I got the dna200 and have been using nothing but the UD 316L, with zero issues at all.
all my coils have been built just like my kanthal. Went through 2 rolls of 24g and a roll of 26g. I opened up a new spool 2 nights ago and now im on my third build with third different atty and its acting hinky.
Can't help but wonder if UD didn't throw out a bad batch or if the did a coca cola move and changed the recipe-bastards.
If you're not a metallurgist or chemist how can you know the purity of a grade you buy. Ok, here's my thoughts on TC and wire. You were just about to ask, right?
TC functions by reading resistance change from room temperature. There is a scale, or band, which goes from room temperature (I think they refer to it as 58F) up to, whatever. Across this band are known resistance increases that correlate to specific temperatures. sidebar - that's what makes the dna200 superior is the ability to customize how your mod treats a wire. If you go to www.steam-engine.org/wirewiz and click Graph in the TC Results pane, then below in the drop-down menu select Ni200, then SS and then Ti, you will see a graph of this band. Notice how with Nickel and Titanium the graph has a far more dramatic slope than stainless. SS is nearly flat. This means that there is far less room for error with SS (all grades) than with the other two commonly used non-resistance wires. And as we all know, resistance fluctuations can occur rather dramatically with even the slightest bit of a bad or loose connection. So if your atty isn't 100% solid, there is any iffy solder joint or coil screw not 100% seated, those things will cause sudden resistance changes that the TC mod will pick up on and adjust to accordingly. I also suspect with heating/cooling the expansion and contraction of the coil wire can have an effect - at minimum by loosening the deck screws some. So when you're using SS and there is already very little room for error, well I think you see where this is headed. It's not to say that I think SS is not a good wire for TC, rather it's far more prone to error than the other two mentioned and therefor inferior for TC. It rocks in wattage mode though!
I do not use Nickel for a variety of reasons. Stainless - I have it but don't use it much. Titanium is my wire of preference and I get very solid, stable and consistent TC performance from it.
I have had this same issue with UD wire... its not like UD is making wire man they are just sourcing it.. I am betting that some of the so called 304 wire is probably 316 and vice versa... I have seen bizarre problems with different grade stainless and the same grade by different vendors I have a hypothesis but you may not want to hear it there @f1r3b1rd
There be minor variances from one 316 to another, but very minor. I can't see a big impact on TCR. There is no company making their own wire. Everyone sources commonly available wire. And suppliers source commonly produced grades of SS. This isn't rocket science. Batches by the 1000s of pounds. And they have to be QC'd. For us it's no big deal... But there are many applications that blend does matter. And all you have to do to get the blend you need is to spec the grade/alloy of SS you need.
So sure there is some unknowns, but I can't imagine huge differences 8n material.
The company I got the wire from, your wire, sells SS in many different forms, in many different alloys for many different applications. I'm sure our 430 comes off a 1000 meter spool of welding wire. If they say it's 430, I obliged to agree. Because they sell several different grades for vaping. Doesn't make a difference to them what spool you want it off of.
If it was wrong on the other end of common, 316, 317, 304, those are all much smaller TCR... My vape would be too hot using 138.
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Roger.... Im not a metallurgy expert, but I have a reasonable grasp of electronics and the process used. I've also had a dna40 since the first beta mod that vaporshark put out.If you're not a metallurgist or chemist how can you know the purity of a grade you buy. Ok, here's my thoughts on TC and wire. You were just about to ask, right?
TC functions by reading resistance change from room temperature. There is a scale, or band, which goes from room temperature (I think they refer to it as 58F) up to, whatever. Across this band are known resistance increases that correlate to specific temperatures. sidebar - that's what makes the dna200 superior is the ability to customize how your mod treats a wire. If you go to www.steam-engine.org/wirewiz and click Graph in the TC Results pane, then below in the drop-down menu select Ni200, then SS and then Ti, you will see a graph of this band. Notice how with Nickel and Titanium the graph has a far more dramatic slope than stainless. SS is nearly flat. This means that there is far less room for error with SS (all grades) than with the other two commonly used non-resistance wires. And as we all know, resistance fluctuations can occur rather dramatically with even the slightest bit of a bad or loose connection. So if your atty isn't 100% solid, there is any iffy solder joint or coil screw not 100% seated, those things will cause sudden resistance changes that the TC mod will pick up on and adjust to accordingly. I also suspect with heating/cooling the expansion and contraction of the coil wire can have an effect - at minimum by loosening the deck screws some. So when you're using SS and there is already very little room for error, well I think you see where this is headed. It's not to say that I think SS is not a good wire for TC, rather it's far more prone to error than the other two mentioned and therefor inferior for TC. It rocks in wattage mode though!
I do not use Nickel for a variety of reasons. Stainless - I have it but don't use it much. Titanium is my wire of preference and I get very solid, stable and consistent TC performance from it.
I settled on stainless because, working with nickel is a pain in the ass and tastes like baby food to me. All vaping Is a compromise in some ways, stainless may have some points of inaccuracy, but the flavor for me is better than any other metal out there, its easy to work with, safe, and dirt cheap. It also gets hotter than kanthal, so I can get the same vape at lower power extending battery life. That said looks like ill be trying a spaced coil. Lol
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Hmmm, you're right... It just baffels me, how all of a sudden, the change. Unless its just kind of a rutt. Hahaha
All that is true. However, I have had unstable ohm problems. It usually makes a burnt hit. It never reaches temp control. I check all my re coils on escribe to make sure they are stable. Crowns will become unstable and I'm betting it's the nickle leg connections. But again, I have experience with that problem. And this isn't that.If you're not a metallurgist or chemist how can you know the purity of a grade you buy. Ok, here's my thoughts on TC and wire. You were just about to ask, right?
TC functions by reading resistance change from room temperature. There is a scale, or band, which goes from room temperature (I think they refer to it as 58F) up to, whatever. Across this band are known resistance increases that correlate to specific temperatures. sidebar - that's what makes the dna200 superior is the ability to customize how your mod treats a wire. If you go to www.steam-engine.org/wirewiz and click Graph in the TC Results pane, then below in the drop-down menu select Ni200, then SS and then Ti, you will see a graph of this band. Notice how with Nickel and Titanium the graph has a far more dramatic slope than stainless. SS is nearly flat. This means that there is far less room for error with SS (all grades) than with the other two commonly used non-resistance wires. And as we all know, resistance fluctuations can occur rather dramatically with even the slightest bit of a bad or loose connection. So if your atty isn't 100% solid, there is any iffy solder joint or coil screw not 100% seated, those things will cause sudden resistance changes that the TC mod will pick up on and adjust to accordingly. I also suspect with heating/cooling the expansion and contraction of the coil wire can have an effect - at minimum by loosening the deck screws some. So when you're using SS and there is already very little room for error, well I think you see where this is headed. It's not to say that I think SS is not a good wire for TC, rather it's far more prone to error than the other two mentioned and therefor inferior for TC. It rocks in wattage mode though!
I do not use Nickel for a variety of reasons. Stainless - I have it but don't use it much. Titanium is my wire of preference and I get very solid, stable and consistent TC performance from it.
If I take Crown at their word, the wire is 316. But Almost everyone says 316 TCR of 91 is too cold. Most use 304 or 100-105. In Crowns case, it's probably the nickle legs throwing things off but 105 seems to work fine. And doing burn tests on them with different TCRs seems to confirm 105 is in the ballpark for accuracy. If not a touch too high.
But going from 138,to 170 is a huge jump. And 170 gives results consistent with all the playing around I've done. I'll do a burn test to confirm when I get time.
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C'mon man, when I have I not wanted to hear your thoughts? Lol
YOu answered it with your quote "its always the Aliens" I do think I will have to get off my lazy ass and do some kind of experiment. I am betting that it has to do with the leg length of the coil and how long it takes for the chip to identify resistance because if the idea to space coils is sound then that indicates it takes a longer strand that has the same characteristic to be detected.. Now again its probably just Aliens
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They should go surfing. -hahaha
I was really referring to making your own coils. I sometimes forget a lot of people buy stock ones. I need to stop doing that !
No, you don't lock ohms just for TC. TC is less accurate when you do and Evolve warns you about locking ohms. Also, if you lock ohms and coil looses contact or shorts, there can be bad consequences. You only lock ohms if your ohms are unstable when sitting on the desk not doing anything. The fix for that is to check connections and get them stable. But you can lock or override ohms if you want.
Irratic ohm readings during a pull do not matter. They should be steady, and people can get them steady, but even if my graph is moving around with temp/ohm/power... I can't actually tell from the vape.
I am building mine on the Crius, but I use crown stock too in TC. Just offering an example of various coils.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Exactly! The most important part of using tc with any wire is the Integrity of the build. Every connection between board and coil has to be steady.
That's what made the kf4(spring) and the sqr(ematel coating) TERRIBLE tc atimizers and why Phil B
Had such a hard time embracing tc. He was trying to make it work on a kf4, hands down the absolute worse atomizer for it.
Now if you look at all the vids and including Phils they tell you to besure to lock ohms. You must be talking about an old artical. I have two and if you don't lock ohms you get an erratic operation.
You might want to take that up with Phil then because that isn't true according to the people that made the board. That isn't how you are supposed to run TC.
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Na dude, he's right for the DNA. There's a thread about it in the early adopters forum at evolv. That's why the first few versions (lol) of the dna40 didn't have atty lock. Evolv prides itself on accuracy, and the board is designed to run at its most accurate without it. They put in atty lock because it is more forgiving with builds that can have some less than perfect connections or modders that have some less than perfect solder points.
Great reason I no longer view his videos you get X so called community expert spewing crap and the misinformation spreads like gangbusters