SS and TCR settings

[AKmtnvapor]

Hey all,
So I got my stainless steel 316L from Kidney Puncher today and got pumped to build some coils with the new material! Wrapped a dual coil 3mm ID 8 wrap spaced coils that came in at .3 ohms. Stuck em in and went to change the settings on my mod to give Temp Control a try, and ran into that TCR setting which I had never noticed before. After some online research I’m still a little confused on what exactly TCR is. Some say to set the TCR for stainless at 92-96, others say 110. What say ya’ll? Are there any UNsafe values that I should steer clear of? Any other temp control tips? Thanks!
(I’m using a Smok Procolor 225W with a dead rabbit RDA)

 

[PoppaVic]

I've used 105, 92, 88, 120, etc - I swear it's voodoo and lies - like government and news.

Amazingly, the DNA200 decided my half-ass attempt at a Tigerwire is perfect for TC mode tonight. <shrug>

Generally, I try stuff out in VW mode first, and that should - afaic - be about 30w ~= 450F (I know what I see, what I hear and what I taste). Steam Engine can provide you some TCR numbers, but I think we are supposed to know how many leading zeroes to throw away. The DNA profile I have uses the TFR-stuff of course, but I've used TCR of 88, 92, 105. and 120 on the Istick TC100W and Gbox 200. I figure whatever seems to work and doesn't lie about any 600F nonsense.

 

[AKmtnvapor]

I've used 105, 92, 88, 120, etc - I swear it's voodoo and lies - like government and news.

Amazingly, the DNA200 decided my half-ass attempt at a Tigerwire is perfect for TC mode tonight. <shrug>

Generally, I try stuff out in VW mode first, and that should - afaic - be about 30w ~= 450F (I know what I see, what I hear and what I taste). Steam Engine can provide you some TCR numbers, but I think we are supposed to know how many leading zeroes to throw away. The DNA profile I have uses the TFR-stuff of course, but I've used TCR of 88, 92, 105. and 120 on the Istick TC100W and Gbox 200. I figure whatever seems to work and doesn't lie about any 600F nonsense.

Voodoo and lies indeed! Haha. I’ll try a few numbers in that area and see what happens. Thanks!

 

[PoppaVic]

I will say, after reading a bunch of DNA posts - it looks to me like stores are buying wire 'X' and selling 'Y', or that their vendors buy 'Z' from some plant and it's either misnamed, mismixed-alloys, or just plain lies.. This seems/seemed to be pretty widespread and a lot of folks left SS3xx for SS4xx for that and other reasons having to do with better resistance.

I'm too cheap to ignore what I've purchased - so I continue to play with the numbers for the apropos flavor.

 

[Arthur-VU]

The TCR value basically defines the slope of the curve that the mod will use of resistance vs voltage while measuring the temp of the coil.

A TFR curve such as the .CSV file you get from Steam Engine, has specific points on this line, which is NOT a straight line as with TCR values, and can sometimes be more accurate since there are more known and specified data points to use for measuring the temp of the coil.

As said above the DNA mods do well with TFR and can also use TCR values in the right place in Escribe.

Having said that, if I am using a non-DNA mod that allows a few memory slots to program TCR values, I usually put in 00088, 00092 and 00111, which I can swtich between to see if I am getting the right feeling with either ss316 or ss316L, and usually set the power to 35w and temp to 420 F (which is the temp at which dry cotton will start to burn).

The 'Master Of Clouds' ss316L spools I have like the 00092 TCR, and the Medusa ss316 likes the 00111 TCR and the YOUDE ss316L likes 00088...

But you can play with these numbers, as others here said above, pretty much anything from 00088 to 00120 should help with variations of ss316/ss316L wire. You just have to find the sweet spot. I tend to like a cooler vape and know how a DNA responds to ss316L, so I try to find a value that gives the same feel at the drip tip.

and that's the thing, it's partly by numbers and partly 'by feel' and how YOU like your vape.

 

[HondaDavidson]

on my Pico75 using AF, regular TC seems to hot.. with TCR I just set it where I get the vape I want. usually thats somewhere between 0070 and 0085. Thats said I rarely use TC as i get a better vape in VW with a curved output profile.

 

[Arthur-VU]

on my Pico75 using AF, regular TC seems to hot.. with TCR I just set it where I get the vape I want. usually thats somewhere between 0070 and 0085. Thats said I rarely use TC as i get a better vape in VW with a curved output profile.

Thanks for the reply.

I tried to load AF on my Pico, but I had problems since I am on Linux and had to run Windows in VirtualBox, the USB connection does not passthru betw this mod and Windows, whereas other mods and other devices do. (30+ yrs working in IT, just not compatible this way, and I refuse to run Windows on bare-metal)

So, instead I used the M1, M2 and M3 memory settings in the stock Pico firmware, and it works fine this way for me.

I've not tried a TCR value below 00088, so I am going to look into that in the future.

 

[Toy4Her]

Hopefully you won't consider this hijacking your thread, I have been wondering what the effect of choosing a higher or lower TCR value has. I have experimented a bit but haven't quite nailed it down, it seems that the higher the number the wattage stays higher for longer?

 

[PoppaVic]

Thanks for the reply.

I tried to load AF on my Pico, but I had problems since I am on Linux and had to run Windows in VirtualBox, the USB connection does not passthru betw this mod and Windows, whereas other mods and other devices do. (30+ yrs working in IT, just not compatible this way, and I refuse to run Windows on bare-metal)

So, instead I used the M1, M2 and M3 memory settings in the stock Pico firmware, and it works fine this way for me.

I've not tried a TCR value below 00088, so I am going to look into that in the future.

It does work, but.. It was a chore to setup Vbox to see the usb's - and then I eventually learned of a widget on the Vbox frame to select which USB to allow connection to doze. Plus, I tried the AF stuff on a tc100w - and simply went back to the eleaf update: I don;t want to run AF/doze/Vbox all the time - tough enough for the DNA's. (which, btw, do actually have a working linux version).

 

[Ralph_K]

SS316 and SS316L is 0.00092 SS317 and SS317L is 0.00088. I don't see the point of running TC mode unless you're using correct TC value

 

[PoppaVic]

Well, the point would be: they mix variant alloys and stamp them one or the other - and the "official" TCR doesn't work on occasion, but an "alternative" does.. For some definition of "work".

 

[skt239]

Well, the point would be: they mix variant alloys and stamp them one or the other - and the "official" TCR doesn't work on occasion, but an "alternative" does.. For some definition of "work".

Different mods also use different tcr’s for whatever reason.

 

[David Wolf]

Thanks for the reply.

I tried to load AF on my Pico, but I had problems since I am on Linux and had to run Windows in VirtualBox, the USB connection does not passthru betw this mod and Windows, whereas other mods and other devices do. (30+ yrs working in IT, just not compatible this way, and I refuse to run Windows on bare-metal)

So, instead I used the M1, M2 and M3 memory settings in the stock Pico firmware, and it works fine this way for me.

I've not tried a TCR value below 00088, so I am going to look into that in the future.

A TCR of 80 worked best for me on a Pico with Temco 28 awg 316L wire and gave me the most accurate temperature readings based on thermocouple measurements. After installing Arctic Fox, I used the Csv files from steam engine for 316L and that performs well. Truth be known I use Power mode these days so I don’t have to account for cold temperature adjustments over time

 

[HondaDavidson]

Hopefully you won't consider this hijacking your thread, I have been wondering what the effect of choosing a higher or lower TCR value has. I have experimented a bit but haven't quite nailed it down, it seems that the higher the number the wattage stays higher for longer?

In ealing simple terms the TCR setting adjusts zero and the formula used to calculate temperature. ... lower for cooler zero higher for hotter zero....

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[Arthur-VU]

It does work, but.. It was a chore to setup Vbox to see the usb's - and then I eventually learned of a widget on the Vbox frame to select which USB to allow connection to doze. Plus, I tried the AF stuff on a tc100w - and simply went back to the eleaf update: I don;t want to run AF/doze/Vbox all the time - tough enough for the DNA's. (which, btw, do actually have a working linux version).

@PoppaVic

Thanks for the info. I'll have to check for the 'doze' function. I've been using Vbox for yrs and never knew about this before.

I know about the Linux 'beta' of Escribe, but I'd have to load that into a VM of Ubuntu before I put that on my bare-metal install. I am leery of loading anything beta on bare-metal (been burned in the past - thank goodness for Aptik and rsync backups ) but then again the USB doze issue likely will effect the Ubuntu VM as well...

 

[PoppaVic]

For some reason, it was less of an issue withe the linux-beta. permissions? I dunno - I've posted over to that forum as well and make sure you get the sp13 package. THAT did the trick, )sp12 was what it had pointed at and that sucker is FUBAR).

 

[Arthur-VU]

For some reason, it was less of an issue withe the linux-beta. permissions? I dunno - I've posted over to that forum as well and make sure you get the sp13 package. THAT did the trick, )sp12 was what it had pointed at and that sucker is FUBAR).

@PoppaVic

Once again, you are an ace in my book

Thanks for the great info, as this will help me to reduce/avoid the chance of another PITA.

Just to be clear, do you mean the Evolve forums?

 

[PoppaVic]

Yeah. Sorry, the Evolv, Linux-beta thread.

 

[Arthur-VU]

@PoppaVic

Thanks for the info. I'll have to check for the 'doze' function. I've been using Vbox for yrs and never knew about this before.

@PoppaVic

I cant seem to find any info via Google nor the Vbox forums on how the usb doze function works and where it is located, Either in Win7 or in Vbox.

Might you have a link to instructions or a hint to point me in the right direction?

Thanks

 

[PoppaVic]

Hmm, no. "usb doze" - No: there is a widget on the Vbox bottom, right frame that a hover will reveal is a list of USB devices connected to the computer - I clicked on the stupid DNA device, and LO! Vbox made it visible thru my previous settings for usb devices to ALLOW WINDOWS TO SEE IT.. That was the "magic moment", (and I really wanted to slap someone for making it almost hidden and an EXTRA step past adding the setting to the Vbox/usb stuff).

It was so much nicer to just use the linux port of Escribe - add one miserable line to an /etc file; add yourself to a group; restart and run. (Big challenge here was trying to insure my usb cable didn't wobble - these ports on the lappy are sloppy/bad). Once I did all the jive I posted to the Evolv/Linux-beta thread, it just.. worked ;-)

 

[Arthur-VU]

Hmm, no. "usb doze" - No: there is a widget on the Vbox bottom, right frame that a hover will reveal is a list of USB devices connected to the computer - I clicked on the stupid DNA device, and LO! Vbox made it visible thru my previous settings for usb devices to ALLOW WINDOWS TO SEE IT.. That was the "magic moment", (and I really wanted to slap someone for making it almost hidden and an EXTRA step past adding the setting to the Vbox/usb stuff).

It was so much nicer to just use the linux port of Escribe - add one miserable line to an /etc file; add yourself to a group; restart and run. (Big challenge here was trying to insure my usb cable didn't wobble - these ports on the lappy are sloppy/bad). Once I did all the jive I posted to the Evolv/Linux-beta thread, it just.. worked ;-)

@PoppaVic

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I know about the toggles for USB, Video Capture, etc at the bottom right of the VM window. I thought that doze-mode was some function for the emulated VM. Maybe it is set via the 'vboxmanage' commandline program?

For me, when I plug in a USB device that I want to use with VBox on a Linux host, I go into terminal (on the host) and do 'lsusb' to make sure it is recognized on the bus, and note the device ID, and then go into the VBox manager, before booting the VM, and then create an active USB filter for that device.

When booting up and logging in to Win7, in the status area of the task bar, I see the notification and hear the tone that it is connected. I can also verify in 'Device Manager' that it is loaded properly.

This works fine for my DNA devices, but not for my Eleaf Pico 75w. The Pico is seen on Linux (via lsusb), but not in Win7 VM, at all. I've also tried 5 different USB cables with the Pico, all of which work fine with my DNA devices.

I could not get the Eleaf firmware updater, nor Arctic Fox to recognize any device, and the Pico was not present in Device Manager...

Of course, all of this is with properly updated/installed VBox 'extensions' and also the 'Guest Additions' into the VM OS.

So it is still a mystery.

 

[PoppaVic]

Hmm.. I know for a fact I had the same vbox/XP setup with Escribe also working with Arctic Fox and Eleafs own update. I did have to add another device/rule/whatever to Vbox. (BTW, the AF stuff was just too damned complicated for me to care - I threw the latest Eleaf update at the tc100w instead. Maybe when AF ports to linux I'll care again).

 

[HondaDavidson]

SS316 and SS316L is 0.00092 SS317 and SS317L is 0.00088. I don't see the point of running TC mode unless you're using correct TC value

Which is why this thread is about TCR modes and NOT TC modes.... TC and for that matter TFR are great ... IF everything is perfect.....

I know of only 1 perfect thing ever to be on this earth.. ask a Christian about him....

Me i live in an imperfect world where an adjustable Temp control mode I can set to taste makes up for status quo.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[Ralph_K]

Which is why this thread is about TCR modes and NOT TC modes.... TC and for that matter TFR are great ... IF everything is perfect.....

I know of only 1 perfect thing ever to be on this earth.. ask a Christian about him....

Me i live in an imperfect world where an adjustable Temp control mode I can set to taste makes up for status quo.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

What year was he born and where? Wasn't he a Jew?

 

[HondaDavidson]

What year was he born and where? Wasn't he a Jew?

Year zero by our calendar and, yes, He was a Jew... He was also of Arab or African decent. By todays standards I guess he would be palestinian.

 

[Ralph_K]

Year zero by our calendar and, yes, He was a Jew... He was also of Arab or African decent. By todays standards I guess he would be palestinian.

Nope Jesus was born in between 2-6BC. Some say 3BC I know that is weird BC means Before Christ where AD is often referred to as "Year of our Lord" such as in US Constitution. BTW there is no such thing as year zero it goes from 1BC to 1AD