Single Samsung 25r won't run above 60w with Clapton coil

Discussion in 'Battery Junkies / Chargers' started by Various Reviews, Apr 15, 2017.

  1. Various Reviews

    Various Reviews New Member

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    OK so this is strange to me. I bought a brand new Samsung 25r and tried to vape it on my joyetech evic vtwo mini topped with the Vaporesso Nalu RDA with prebuilt .52 ohm dual Clapton coils fully charged but it won't vape any higher than 60 watts. However I have no issue vaping said setup only with Sony vtc6 at 75 watts for quite an extended period of time. My Samsung 25r has no issue running my twisted messes squared RDA with .15 ohm dual parallel coils at 75 watts. This is weird and a first for me if anyone could help. On the nalu claptons the 25r can't push higher than 10.5 amps roughly but on the tm dual parallels it can push 21 amps. Nalu at 75 watts it runs 6.24 volts idk if that is info needed. Any help appreciated thank you!
     
  2. IMFire3605

    IMFire3605 Bronze Contributor ECF Refugee

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    First you shouldn't be pushing any 20amp CDR battery past 60 to 65watts per battery continuously, especially at lower charge on the batteries.

    60watts/3.2v lowest battery charge/90% Mod Efficiency Rating=20.83333Amps
    65watts/3.2v/90%=22.5694444Amps

    Remember that what the Joyetech control boards display as amps are the amps being pushed to the coil(s) themselves, not what is being pulled from the batteries

    6.24v/0.52ohms=12amps

    0.15ohms at 75watts = 3.35v and 22.36amps needed

    The Sony VTC6 holding higher watts longer than the 25R is not surprising as Sony batteries, especially the 20amp VTC6 and the 25amp VTC5A are notorious for holding onto their voltage longer than other company batteries and they have a stronger pulse discharge than other company batteries making them the hardest hitting line on the market, especially in the Mech/Unregulated aspect. Comparing an Orange to a Tangelo or Tangerine in regards to different performances, the VTC5A even knocks the venerable 30amp LG HB6's face into the dirt in pulse and harder hitting categories with less voltage sag and a slower discharge curve. Thus why for the longest time the Sony VTC4 23amp battery which could be wiggled up to 28amps easily and safely was one of, if not, the King of High amp vaping for the longest until the LG HB series hit the market followed by the recently released VTC5A revamp of the VTC5.

    guidlines that are a bit dumbed down:
    20amp batteries = 60watts max per battery (120 dual battery series, 180 triple battery series, 240 quad battery series) in regulated mods, unregulated/mech lowest safest ohms of 0.28 (15amps), though suggested 0.42 (10amps)
    25amp batteries = 75watts max per battery regulated, unregulated/mech lowest safest ohms 0.22 (18.75amps), though suggested 0.34 (12.5amps)
    30amp batteries = 90watts max per battery regulated, unregulated/mech lowest safest ohms 0.19 (22.5amps), suggested 0.28ohms (15amps)

    Its in the "Ohm's Law", no way to get around it in electricty
    http://www.steam-engine.org/ohm.html
     
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  3. Various Reviews

    Various Reviews New Member

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    Thank you for the information it is appreciated I understand all of that I just don't understand why it won't run at 75 watts on my Clapton's at 0.52 when it will run the same on 0.15 dual parallels...well I stated all what confuses me in OP anyways lol. I do know the dangers of what I'm doing and also have enough experience to know when to stop and the limits of the build. Hopefully I can get an answer or find out myself sometime
     
  4. f1r3b1rd

    f1r3b1rd #Team Jimi Supporter Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Ummm
    have you tried the battery in a different mod?

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
     
  5. IMFire3605

    IMFire3605 Bronze Contributor ECF Refugee

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    As I said you are really only comparing an Orange to another Citrus fruit in all honesty, LG, Samsung, and Sony all use their own ways and in some instances materials to make these batteries, thus chemistries can be slightly different, those differences = different performances. That is also not taking into account the age and number of charge cycles on your batteries, if the 25R batteries are older than the VTC6's, then yes, the VTC6 will dust the 25R's all day long, older battery = weaker battery.
     
  6. Various Reviews

    Various Reviews New Member

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    I've used a different RDA the dual parallel .15 runs at 75 watts but not my 0.52 Clapton that's all I can really try I only have a mech mod I've used it with outside my joyetech and its fine unless its the Clapton
     
  7. Various Reviews

    Various Reviews New Member

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    I suppose, yea. I bought my vtc6s months ago and just bought the 25r yesterday. Maybe 25r just sucks who knows. But as you know the joyetech evic vtwo mini can also be ran in bypass mode and at a full charge on my .15 with the tm squared, it pushes 120 w at 4.2v full charge. Idk this is strange to me.
     
  8. f1r3b1rd

    f1r3b1rd #Team Jimi Supporter Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I guess where I was going with that is that it is probably the mod, not the battery.
    The battery should be able to supply that power because of its pulse rating. I normally run a 25r with a 0.12 - 0.14 o clapton build in a stingray xti. I run much lower than that I'm my DNA mods with the same battery.
    It could be that particular battery running hot and the mod shutting it down. Or, my first thought was that you could be hitting the voltage limits of the mod(I don't know what those are for that mod) but if you're getting the same out of another battery, than stick with those.


    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
     
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  9. Thomasl

    Thomasl Member For 1 Year

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    there you go ^^^^
     
  10. Angrygod50

    Angrygod50 Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    The local vape shop has been getting returns of those for the same problem. I use TC but I checked my original mini and it maxed out at 60 watts not 75W also. I put the Arctic fox firmware on it and now it does 74.8 watts. I'll add that my Joyetech chipped Pico will do 75W
    WTF Joyetech. I wonder if it's seeing the voltage drop and reacting too fast to limit the power, the DNA75 had a similar problem that was fixed with an update.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  11. conanthewarrior

    conanthewarrior Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I think 75W, single 18650 regulated mods are asking for quite a lot really. When I want to vape over say 40-50W, I use a dual 18650 mod. I can't really get acceptable battery life if I was to use a single 18650 mod at its full output power.

    I really want to get arctic fox on a few of my joyetech mods, but have not had any luck using a Mac. Not sure if it is where I am running a virtual machine this is the issue. I am pretty tech savvy, so it is a shame I can't get it working as it seems like great firmware.

    With the DNA75, do you mean the weak battery message that was being displayed with mainly 26650 models? I only have one DNA75 and it is a SDNA75, so uses 18650's, I never encountered the error myself with my cutoff set at 2.75V, which was how the mod came. A bit low, but not dangerously low so I have kept it there.
     
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  12. Angrygod50

    Angrygod50 Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Yep when I first got my SDNA75 it kept popping up then there was an up date that slowed the response time for the message and it never came back. I saw on the DNA forum that it saw the initial voltage drop and didn't let it come back up a bit before it displayed the message.
     
  13. conanthewarrior

    conanthewarrior Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Ahh fair enough. I never noticed the issue myself, same mod too. I was running it around 30-40W though most of the time, with a higher preheat.

    I didn't know that much about the issue as I had not dealt with it myself, I do remember it seemed to effect 26650 mods more? I am glad they sorted it out though. I guess it was kind of a case of the mod being good in a way, reading the voltage consistently, but incorrectly displaying the message.
     
  14. Various Reviews

    Various Reviews New Member

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    Thank you all for your input I appreciate it! I just bought a haka reader and am gonna see how that works out. Plus 2 Sony vtc 3s and some wraps n insulator rings I'm still gonna use all the batteries until they're shot anyways either way I'm not wasting my money by throwing it out lol. Thank you all maybe I should upgrade my mod
     
  15. Dead Gummy Worm

    Dead Gummy Worm Silver Contributor ECF Refugee

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    Im curious how legit your 25R's are... also voltage sag is the likely culprit.. your mod is calculating its max "safe" wattage based on the battery voltage. throw a +1 on dual cell mod on anything above 40-50 (35 if you ask me) otherwise you will be burning through batteries and adding cycles up on them faster than you can spit. In all honesty there is nothing that should be putting that much sag on the battery from fully charged for any mod not to fire at the same as another battery since that is the calculation being done. The mod assumes average case scenario and plays a bit of watts law to help determine safety.
     
  16. Various Reviews

    Various Reviews New Member

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    Yea that's what I'm thinking that its either a fake or a resell I bought it from a b n m so its very likely that it is I just bought from imrbatteries.com and they're arguably the most reputable vendor so I'll never shop anywhere else for batts anymore. Thanks Gummer!
     
  17. Dead Gummy Worm

    Dead Gummy Worm Silver Contributor ECF Refugee

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    Not to play favs, but IMRBatteries is who i use :D I use 25R's (lots of them) they perform well i choose them due to their temp at CDR.
     
  18. Various Reviews

    Various Reviews New Member

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    Sadly the only one I bought from a b n m is shitty and won't hit above 50 w steadily I think its a fake because at full charge it has a voltage drop to 2.99v smfh yea imr batts all the way!
     
  19. conanthewarrior

    conanthewarrior Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Wow, how are you reading the voltage drop, and what power are you trying to draw from the battery? That is a large amount of voltage under load.
     
  20. Various Reviews

    Various Reviews New Member

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    I know right?! I've used both the haka tester and my evic vtwo mini. But that's when its on my mech and bypass mode. When I'm trying to run in power mode it won't go above 50-60watts I think it might be a resell, rewrap, or fake obviously I'm pointing out the obvious lol. I usually draw the full 75w from my vtc6s and usually just use my hg2 on my mech
     
  21. conanthewarrior

    conanthewarrior Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    It is a big drop, It's hard to say if it is a fake, or what exactly it is, but I would be careful with it and not try to run it too high.

    I'm sure you know, but be careful too with the VTC6's at 75W as you are overdrawing them amp wise in a single 18650 regulated mod. It is very unlikely anything bad would happen, but still best to know to keep an eye on things.

    How do you find HG2's to perform in your mechs? I've only used them in my regulated mods, I usually use 25R's or HE4's mech wise but it's cool to experiment.
     
  22. Various Reviews

    Various Reviews New Member

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    Yea I figure I'll get the most out of it before its shot I don't just wanna trash it ya know.

    Yea the actual specs for amp drain is a safe 19a and the max is 25a I believe and I know that max isn't great to do to a battery but I love a .15 resistance and I also don't chain vape like a moron lol, if it's warm I put it down lol I'm certainly cautious and mindful when I'm pushing limits a bit. I appreciate your concern thank you.

    The hg2 is quite decent in a mech. It hits quite hard and I've always been satisfied with it. I definitely recommend them in mechs!
     
  23. conanthewarrior

    conanthewarrior Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I can understand not wanting to trash it, just be aware of it and stay safe :).

    If you are talking regulated, Ohms law doesn't actually apply to what is being drawn from your batteries, it is input voltage and watts that determine amp load. Always calculate at the cut off voltage, as this is where amp load is highest in a regulated mod, the opposite to a mechanical mod.

    I am unsure of the pico's cut off, but lets say it is 3.1V. That would be 75/3.1=24.19A. Then you have to factor in efficiency, as it is a single 18650 device lets use the same as Evolvs DNA75 as they publish efficiency. At 85% efficiency, it would be 28.46A, so a fair bit over.

    If the cutoff is lower, the amp load will be higher.

    Of course, if you meant mechanical then Ohms law does apply and it how to calculate amp load, I may be trying to tell you something you already know lol
     
  24. Various Reviews

    Various Reviews New Member

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    Lol yea but its always nice to hear it again. Kind of like two philosophers sharing the same beliefs and the mod being the stone of truth lmao. (*Bright light from the sky* HALLELUJAHHHHHHH!) the great thing about my regulated vtwo mini is that it calculates the amp load for you on the display and it also can display internal temp in celcius which is very nice. Yea I usually have to calculate amps on my muenster mech but it isn't overloading on the battery its just on the higher end complete cutoff point lol
     
  25. conanthewarrior

    conanthewarrior Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Haha, I haven't heard of a mod being compared to that before, but I like it lol :)

    We all must remember the amp reading on your mod is what is hitting your coil, not what is being drawn from your batteries- I really think they should turn those amp readouts off by default, as it confuses new vapers as they think it is what is being drawn from their batteries, and think they are unsafe at say 80W at 0.1 because of the screen.
    Most of us know that resistance doesn't make a bit of difference to amp load with a regulated mod, but all new vapers are told to research Ohms law so its easy to see where they get confused.

    That is nice it displays internal temp too, my mods that use Evolv boards can do that, I don't know if any of my others can. I have the Evic VTC mini and know that one doesn't so it is nice to be included on the vtwo mini.
     
  26. Various Reviews

    Various Reviews New Member

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    That's awesome! Yea I like it! So is there an equation to be able to tell what's actually being drawn from the battery instead of what's hitting the coil? Also do you have any experience with the Oakley Haka Tester?
     
  27. conanthewarrior

    conanthewarrior Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Yes, it is simply the watts used divided by the input cutoff voltage, and also the mods efficiency, so nothing too hard :) . Cut off varies from mod to mod, but for example lets say its 3.1V, and vaping at 50W.

    For a single 18650 mod, it would be 50/3.1=16.12A. Say the mod is 90% efficient, divide by 0.9 and this gives you 17.92A

    For a dual 18650 mod in series, it would be 50/6.2=8.06A. Again 0.9 for 90% efficiency would give you 8.96A.

    It does depend on the mod though, as some cut off at lower voltages, so the amp load will be higher, it will also be higher if the mod is not as efficient.
    A regulated mod can run at a pretty constant power level throughout the batteries discharge, and as voltage falls amp load increases to compensate and still output the wattage you have set.
    When it can no longer you this you will get the weak battery message.
     
  28. Various Reviews

    Various Reviews New Member

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    Tysm for the info brother a few things i definitely didn't know. Lol in other words its "weak mod" not "weak battery" haha I definitely wanna get either a dual box or dual regulated eventually that'd be great!
     
  29. conanthewarrior

    conanthewarrior Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    No problem mate, lol at the weak mod comment, some are pretty awful for sure. Mods that buck voltage (stepping down) instead of boosting (Single 18650 mods have to do this often, it does depend on build though, a higher resistance build will need to boost more to provide enough voltage) are in general more efficient.

    For example, the DNA200 and 250 which buck down from 12.6 Volts at full charge are 97% efficient, which is very good, while the DNA75 which is designed for a single 18650 or 1S Li-Po is 85% efficient.
    Not all manufacturers include the efficiency of the board in their manuals, so 90% is not a bad figure to use when calculating the amp load.

    What kind of mod are you looking for? Depending on what you like, say either temperature control, or high power vaping, we can help you looking for a mod. I tend to use my dual 18650 mods the most as I find they give me the best balance of battery life to power :)
     
  30. Various Reviews

    Various Reviews New Member

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    I will keep that in mind for the future thank you. Fuck TC! I WANT THE POWER! lol 18 At Castle Grayskull.jpg
     
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  31. conanthewarrior

    conanthewarrior Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Ok then, for power pretty much any dual 18650 box mod will be good for up to around 150W with suitable batteries. Anything more and you will need 30A batteries, and they don't really have enough capacity to last for long when used at high power.

    It might be a bit more than you want, but a triple 18650 set up will be much better for high power use- you will be able to run it at a higher wattage safely due to the amp load, and the battery life will be much better. It does depend how much you vape though, and how high you want to go.

    I really do like the IPV8, very small for a dual 18650 mod, as small as some of my single 18650 mods. The Smok Alien is also very small for two 18650's, but I prefer the IPV8 myself. I like Yihi's boards and find them to be more reliable than any Smok mod, although I do use my alien a lot as well.
     
  32. Various Reviews

    Various Reviews New Member

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    Yea I was thinking about 100-125 watts anyways for power. I just ordered two Sony vtc3s in thoughts of using them exclusively for my mech due to the amp load it can take and just bought a nitecore d4 as well. Yea I don't think I'll get am alien because everyone's riding that train it seems like I'd rather have something that's different and efficient. I would love a boss 3000 or revanent cartel! Those are awesome but yes they're lipo boxes lol
     
  33. conanthewarrior

    conanthewarrior Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    For around that power you could use something like 30Q's in a regulated mod as it isn't pushing things extremely hard. The VTC3's are good batteries, they are fairly low capacity though but will be good. If you order any more batteries for High amp use, I recommend the LG HB6, the same capacity as the VTC3 but a 30A CDR, or the VTC5A for the same amp rating but 2500MAH capacity.
    The VTC3 is still a good battery though to use :).

    The D4 is a great charger, I have one of those myself, I use it alongside a Efest LUC4. Efest actually make good chargers, their rewrapped batteries can be a different story lol.

    Nothing wrong with a Li-Po box, the Boss 3000 looks nice and uses the DNA250. I have a few DNA200 Li-Po boxes, the Efusion and a Hotcig V2, they work well. Also the USB charging is handy as you don't need to carry a charger around with you, and the balance charging on the Evolv boards is really good so would not be a bad choice.
     
  34. Various Reviews

    Various Reviews New Member

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    Damn man! You got a great collection! I'm jealous haha. Just kidding...but seriously... Lmao. Yea I wanted to order the hb6s those were my first choice at imrbatteries but they were out of stock (SHIT!) Yea I figured I could use my hg2 in my mech for when I go out and the vtc3s when I don't have to go nowhere lol due to the low capacity but I can just swap out I think I have 6 batteries now so far which is a good rotation for two mods, I have the ones I use in my reg, then the ones for my mech. I just don't wanna risk carbon buildup or arcing on the ones I use for my reg. Yea Mooch says the vtc3 has a MCDR of 40a although I won't push to that but my .15 dual parallels won't be pushing the limits of those which is nice and they were only 7$ for 2! Capacity isn't always everything! Lol. I would love a lipo box, a boss, or the rev..but I don't have money like that ya know lol as Grimm Green says I gotta use my budget hands lol
     

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