Should I get new 18650s?

[H4X0R46]

Hey guys! So, the mod I'm using is an RX200s. I bought it back in August of last year, with 3 Samsung 25R batteries (the batteries in question here). I took care of them, and they STILL seem to last. People have said that a rule of thumb is to get new ones every 6 months or so. My question is, should I get new batteries just to be safe? Or is there an obvious sign when I know I should? Physically they're in great condition, I rewrapped one that had a torn wrap, but they look good still and are still performing fine. Thanks guys!

 

[IMFire3605]

The biggest factor if they are badly aged there are two indicators. 1) They will stop holding a charge as long as they used to, their mah decreases, and do to mah decrease CDR decreases which causes - 2) due to lower CDR they will feel to warm up a bit more and more often. These are the only 2 real indicators of batteries well maintained that it is time to change them unless you keep a battery log book/log spreadsheet with info like when bought, but most importantly in the logs how many full (2.5 to 3.2 lowest volts up to full 4.2v recharge) and how many half charge cycles (when recharge from 3.6 or higher). Most batteries have a life cycle of 250-300 full charge cycles before being worn out, doing half charge cycles can extend that out to 2/3 more to double the full charge cycles.

Another factor would be how much you abused them with high stress output, being 20amp rated CDR, high stress would be 10amps to 20amps constant duty usage or 2amp to 4amp rapid charges often.

10amps = 10 X 90% control chip efficiency= 9 X 9.6 lowest voltage before mod shutoff = 86.4watts or higher would be high stress.

Basically if you see none of the 3 indicators I've listed, the batteries should be fine, however, if you have noticed any of these or to put your mind at ease, never hurts to err on the side of caution and get replacements. Yet, I've still got batteries, though many used in low wattage (tootle puffing) area, my higher output devices (75plus watts) I have Samsung 25R and Sony VTC4 for, those batteries are still running strong after a year, though are starting to show getting warmer quicker than they used to.

 

[H4X0R46]

The biggest factor if they are badly aged there are two indicators. 1) They will stop holding a charge as long as they used to, their mah decreases, and do to mah decrease CDR decreases which causes - 2) due to lower CDR they will feel to warm up a bit more and more often. These are the only 2 real indicators of batteries well maintained that it is time to change them unless you keep a battery log book/log spreadsheet with info like when bought, but most importantly in the logs how many full (2.5 to 3.2 lowest volts up to full 4.2v recharge) and how many half charge cycles (when recharge from 3.6 or higher). Most batteries have a life cycle of 250-300 full charge cycles before being worn out, doing half charge cycles can extend that out to 2/3 more to double the full charge cycles.

Another factor would be how much you abused them with high stress output, being 20amp rated CDR, high stress would be 10amps to 20amps constant duty usage or 2amp to 4amp rapid charges often.

10amps = 10 X 90% control chip efficiency= 9 X 9.6 lowest voltage before mod shutoff = 86.4watts or higher would be high stress.

Basically if you see none of the 3 indicators I've listed, the batteries should be fine, however, if you have noticed any of these or to put your mind at ease, never hurts to err on the side of caution and get replacements. Yet, I've still got batteries, though many used in low wattage (tootle puffing) area, my higher output devices (75plus watts) I have Samsung 25R and Sony VTC4 for, those batteries are still running strong after a year, though are starting to show getting warmer quicker than they used to.

I've always charged these batteries at around 3.6v - 3.7v. Never "fully" drained them. I vape at about 70w on my RX200S (3 cell mod), and usually get about 3 or 4 days of usage before hitting that 3.7v mark. I'll keep an eye on if they're getting warm or not, it doesn't seem like they do. They get a bit warm while charging (but always have since I got em). I've had them since the beginning of August 2016 and have been using them non stop up until now (I don't have a second pair of 18650s, I should.)

So the main signs would be them losing mah (dying quicker) and getting warmer than usual?


EDIT: LG HG2s are on sale for a killer price at illumn right now.... Tempting..... Is illumn a good place to get those?

 

[IMFire3605]

Yes, well maintained batteries only indicator they are to old is the runtime decrease and the physical temperatures during usage.

Distributors, illumn is a great vendor, Liionwholesale.com, imrbatteries.com, orbtronic.com, and RTDVapor.com are the 5 vendors I suggest. Mooch tested the HG2, these latest batches last test only rate and 18amp CDR, the better battery is would be the 30Q (tested 20amp CDR at 3000mah) if they are available. The HG2 is still a good battery, at 70watts they should be fine and plenty safe.

 

[H4X0R46]

Yes, well maintained batteries only indicator they are to old is the runtime decrease and the physical temperatures during usage.

Distributors, illumn is a great vendor, Liionwholesale.com, imrbatteries.com, orbtronic.com, and RTDVapor.com are the 5 vendors I suggest. Mooch tested the HG2, these latest batches last test only rate and 18amp CDR, the better battery is would be the 30Q (tested 20amp CDR at 3000mah) if they are available. The HG2 is still a good battery, at 70watts they should be fine and plenty safe.

The thing about the 30Q (for me anyways) is that Samsung rated them at 15A. Are they REALLY safe up to 20A? Mooch's tests say they are, but I'm very over cautious when it comes to these batteries lol

And HG2 at 18A? That's surprising actually ._.

 

[IMFire3605]

There are 3 batteries in the "20amp" 3000mah category.

For CDR
Samsung 30Q (20amp Tested though rated 15amp)
Sony VTC6 (19amp Tested though rated 15amp)
LG HG2 (18amp Tested though rated 20amp)
yes a bit surprising, Sony doesn't surprise me rating higher as they never really give a hard CDR rating, only rated at XX amps @ 80 degrees C internal temperature, Samsungs think they rated in a lower cushion than what the battery can do, the LG, being on the market longer than the other 2, they are still A Bin class, though in that class there are sub-classes, what is available is probably at the last batches made and or have sat for to long in storage before shipping and sales.

Top to bottom for voltage sustainability (hits harder and holds higher voltage longer)
Sony VTC6
Samsung 30Q
LG HG2 (again at the bottom of the list)

 

[H4X0R46]

There are 3 batteries in the "20amp" 3000mah category.

For CDR
Samsung 30Q (20amp Tested though rated 15amp)
Sony VTC6 (19amp Tested though rated 15amp)
LG HG2 (18amp Tested though rated 20amp)
yes a bit surprising, Sony doesn't surprise me rating higher as they never really give a hard CDR rating, only rated at XX amps @ 80 degrees C internal temperature, Samsungs think they rated in a lower cushion than what the battery can do, the LG, being on the market longer than the other 2, they are still A Bin class, though in that class there are sub-classes, what is available is probably at the last batches made and or have sat for to long in storage before shipping and sales.

Top to bottom for voltage sustainability (hits harder and holds higher voltage longer)
Sony VTC6
Samsung 30Q
LG HG2 (again at the bottom of the list)

30Qs sound like the better way to go for me. I'm wary of Sony batteries because of how many fakes are out there! I'm just hoping the 30Q really can handle up to 20A. I wonder why Samsung would rate them at 15A if they're more powerful than that. There must have been a reason Well, I may be getting a set of 30Qs soon here. I don't think I'd be vaping past 110W max. That's still in Samsung's 15A rating. (RX200S in mind) Thanks for all the help!

 

[Darth Omerta]

Actually, according to Mooch, the HG2 is actually one of the most frequently faked batteries these days. Thats not to say that fakes dont exist on all big name cells but thats why we buy from reliable vendors.

Reliable vendors aren't immune to fake cells, they can receive and sell fakes just like anyone else, the difference is that the reliable vendors tend to be more cautious in their purchasing and testing of the products they sell. If they do discover a batch of fakes they are much more likely to make things right with the consumer(refunds, replacements at no cost, etc). Due to their periodic testing of their products they have a much lower rate of fake batteries being sold as they are capable of identifying a problem before anything goes to the consumer.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

30Qs sound like the better way to go for me. I'm wary of Sony batteries because of how many fakes are out there! I'm just hoping the 30Q really can handle up to 20A. I wonder why Samsung would rate them at 15A if they're more powerful than that. There must have been a reason Well, I may be getting a set of 30Qs soon here. I don't think I'd be vaping past 110W max. That's still in Samsung's 15A rating. (RX200S in mind) Thanks for all the help!

Samsung is very conservative in their ratings. You have to remember that there's no standardized test for discharge current. That's how the chinese companies can get away with such unrealistic ratings, but it also means among the reputable companies that discharge ratings aren't necessarily comparable "apples to apples".

 

[conanthewarrior]

As long as the batteries are still working well, as in holding a long enough charge to work for what you class as reasonable, there is no need to replace them at 6 months old.

The 25R5 is rated for 300+ charge cycles, the 25R2 in the blue wrapper was rated for 250+, but the slight change in chemistry gives the newer green 25R a longer over all life.

If you was constantly pushing your batteries to their limit, or even past their CDR, then you would need to replace them more often. But as long as you are not being dumb and going over, they will last you a very long time indeed! I have a few of my original blue 25R's still, and my first married pair of VTC4's that still work well, although due to their age I use them as backups with so many batteries now.

 

[conanthewarrior]

30Qs sound like the better way to go for me. I'm wary of Sony batteries because of how many fakes are out there! I'm just hoping the 30Q really can handle up to 20A. I wonder why Samsung would rate them at 15A if they're more powerful than that. There must have been a reason Well, I may be getting a set of 30Qs soon here. I don't think I'd be vaping past 110W max. That's still in Samsung's 15A rating. (RX200S in mind) Thanks for all the help!

The 30Q would be fine at 110W in a dual 18650 mod if you take the 20A rating into consideration, in a triple 18650 setup at 110W that would be 12.2A at cut off, so realistically you will more than likely be pulling around 9.9A at 110W, well within spec.

This is without efficiency factored in though, but say 90% you still are well within safe limits of the batteries, and they will be perfect for your needs .

 

[nightshard]

With a 3 battery mod and since you are vaping at 70W there is no reason to go with batteries above 20A and on principle you can also use 10A batteries.
Out of the 20A batteries it would make some sense to choose one of the 3000mAh ones (30Q, VTC6, HG2).
Out of those three I prefer the 30Q and VTC6.

As long as your batteries work and you are content with their current performance and capacity, there is no reason to replace them.