Could a Samsung 25r Handel a .15 build if I take 3 second his on my neck mod
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Samsung 25r good enough for a.15 build
- Thread starter gologo1401
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They are very good batteries that many people use for lower ohm builds. I have 3 pairs that I use in my sigelei 100 watt with a 0.14 ohm coil @ 75 watts. Even with chain vaping, they don't get hotter then the mod itself. Mod will heat up from my grip, it's internal chip, and the rda, but the batteries are always cooler when I check them. They also have a much longer life then Sony VTC4s (which I also use).
They are rated for 20amp continuous and although anything over 60 watts with a 0.15 ohm will exceed the continuous rating, they are rated with a pulse of over 100 amps for under 1 second and pulsing is what we do to the batteries while vaping. As the time increases, the max pulse decreases. 95 amp for 0.5 seconds, 65 amp for 1 second, 45 amp pulse for 5 seconds, 30 amp pulse for 6 seconds.
Even in a mech with a fully charged battery, 4.2 volts on a 0.15ohm coil only comes out to 28 amps so you'd have to hold the button down for over 6 seconds to exceed the pulse rating. Most vaping hits are only a few seconds long.
Datasheet: http://congrevape.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/131101_Introduction-of-INR18650-25R.pdf
They are rated for 20amp continuous and although anything over 60 watts with a 0.15 ohm will exceed the continuous rating, they are rated with a pulse of over 100 amps for under 1 second and pulsing is what we do to the batteries while vaping. As the time increases, the max pulse decreases. 95 amp for 0.5 seconds, 65 amp for 1 second, 45 amp pulse for 5 seconds, 30 amp pulse for 6 seconds.
Even in a mech with a fully charged battery, 4.2 volts on a 0.15ohm coil only comes out to 28 amps so you'd have to hold the button down for over 6 seconds to exceed the pulse rating. Most vaping hits are only a few seconds long.
Datasheet: http://congrevape.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/131101_Introduction-of-INR18650-25R.pdf
I do use a mech mod so if I reasonally vape could I use my 25r's for the .15
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DuckysVapeReviews
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What would be best for single 18650 mechs running occoasional 0.075 but 0.125 regularly? Just wondering
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DuckysVapeReviews
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Just to throw my own gorilla in the ring to box.......What is the absolute ohm limits for "one hit and quit" vaping as well as 3 or so puff styles (3-5 seconds per puff on all) for the VTC 4, 35R HE4 & HB6 in single battery mods? (Think I got all the best vape batts there) I plan on using a derringer with 22awg kanthal on a smpl with a vtc4 but would personally curious myself for my next buy.
NemesisVaper
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Pretty much any decent OEM cell will handle well over the amp limit for a short time.
Issue is, what happens if something goes wrong? A fucked up switch, forgetting to lock the mod if applicable and having it fire in your pocket, or even worse somewhere you can't feel the heat comming off it or hear it like a backpack, or something else that causes an auto fire. A fellow vaper may even pick up your device and use it.
People will do what they like, nobody is going to stop them.
The absolute ohm limit is whatever ohms brings you to the continuous limit of the cell. Anything after that is the individuals lookout. If you're happy going lower do it, cool, but you can't really ask others how low is acceptable because that's down to you to weigh the risks. Nobody else knows how careful you are, where you keep your devices,.if children or less educated ( in vape terms) people can gain access to your stuff etc.
You're kind of asking others to decide something only you can make a decision on.
Issue is, what happens if something goes wrong? A fucked up switch, forgetting to lock the mod if applicable and having it fire in your pocket, or even worse somewhere you can't feel the heat comming off it or hear it like a backpack, or something else that causes an auto fire. A fellow vaper may even pick up your device and use it.
People will do what they like, nobody is going to stop them.
The absolute ohm limit is whatever ohms brings you to the continuous limit of the cell. Anything after that is the individuals lookout. If you're happy going lower do it, cool, but you can't really ask others how low is acceptable because that's down to you to weigh the risks. Nobody else knows how careful you are, where you keep your devices,.if children or less educated ( in vape terms) people can gain access to your stuff etc.
You're kind of asking others to decide something only you can make a decision on.
I like to build in a little bit of safety factor and avoid pushing things to their limits, let alone beyond them. But that's just me - only batteries I'd use in a single-battery mech below 0.3 are Sony VTCs, and even then I wouldn't go much below 0.2...why bother doing something that's only *almost* unsafe when you can push so much power through a regulated box these days?
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That is the reason I mentioned the single 3-5sec puff and the 3 or so 3-5sec puff. Kinda giving the usage specs there. I have always done and tell others to do, pull my rda/tank when not in use. Thats why many higher end have carrying cases with them from my experiences. This prevents the autofire because there is nothing to fire. A few others have told me the following which seems very logical.
Battery X has 30amp continous, 60 amp pulse. The pulse is usually judged in 1-3sec bursts and the continous is usually judged at 6sec or longer activity. That being said, out the gate that said battery can handle a 60 amp load and drops to 30 over next 5-6 seconds. Figuring that the 3 second mark would be around the 45amp area. This is why I was asking what each of these batteries can do in the 3-5sec area in single hit and multiple hit fields. Havent messaged Jon yet but figured I would toss the question in public to help others as well. I have a vtc4 on route now. I plan on running a 28amp load nominally and will push it on rare occoasions.
Battery X has 30amp continous, 60 amp pulse. The pulse is usually judged in 1-3sec bursts and the continous is usually judged at 6sec or longer activity. That being said, out the gate that said battery can handle a 60 amp load and drops to 30 over next 5-6 seconds. Figuring that the 3 second mark would be around the 45amp area. This is why I was asking what each of these batteries can do in the 3-5sec area in single hit and multiple hit fields. Havent messaged Jon yet but figured I would toss the question in public to help others as well. I have a vtc4 on route now. I plan on running a 28amp load nominally and will push it on rare occoasions.
NemesisVaper
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A pulse spec is very specific. There is no usual value, it's whatever the manufacturer states. Those values are finite and set in stone. Any cell that has an amperage stated in specs or in the wrapper without a very specific time stated is mislabeled.
Building to any pulse discharge takes away any safety margin in case of disaster. Things happen when we least expect it and sometimes when we do everything right.
Samsung have tested the 25r at 95A for precisely 0.5 seconds, 80A for the same, 45A for 5 seconds and 30A for 6 seconds. There were.also specific rest periods between test cycles. The HE2 for example has no pulse spec at all. If the manufacturer doesn't state it and approve it it doesn't exist. Can it be done? Yes, but safety goes right out the window. You may hear people say they're only "pulsing" the cell but to say that's OK for x amount of seconds on any cell sounds like they're trying to kid themselves they're being safer than they actually are .
We can not guess time frames for Amperage not specified by making a guess based on the figures that are on the list . If it's not on the list, it's not in the spec.
Dont listen to anyone that says things like " a pulse is usually 1-3 seconds". They're pulling figures out of thin air.
That said, if I wanted to experiment with low builds I'd use either a 20r or a 25r. Keep an eye on temperature of the mod atty and cell and have available plan if things go wrong.
We're all adults and capable of making our own decisions, but if we're going to push a cell past its rating to one not explicitly on the spec sheet we have to accept that we do so entirely at our own risk. Fabricating figures won't make us safe, we need to use our expertise and experience to ensure we are as safe as can be.
Building to any pulse discharge takes away any safety margin in case of disaster. Things happen when we least expect it and sometimes when we do everything right.
Samsung have tested the 25r at 95A for precisely 0.5 seconds, 80A for the same, 45A for 5 seconds and 30A for 6 seconds. There were.also specific rest periods between test cycles. The HE2 for example has no pulse spec at all. If the manufacturer doesn't state it and approve it it doesn't exist. Can it be done? Yes, but safety goes right out the window. You may hear people say they're only "pulsing" the cell but to say that's OK for x amount of seconds on any cell sounds like they're trying to kid themselves they're being safer than they actually are .
We can not guess time frames for Amperage not specified by making a guess based on the figures that are on the list . If it's not on the list, it's not in the spec.
Dont listen to anyone that says things like " a pulse is usually 1-3 seconds". They're pulling figures out of thin air.
That said, if I wanted to experiment with low builds I'd use either a 20r or a 25r. Keep an eye on temperature of the mod atty and cell and have available plan if things go wrong.
We're all adults and capable of making our own decisions, but if we're going to push a cell past its rating to one not explicitly on the spec sheet we have to accept that we do so entirely at our own risk. Fabricating figures won't make us safe, we need to use our expertise and experience to ensure we are as safe as can be.
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With talk of vaping as low as 0.075 ohms in this thread even a dual cell parallel box isn't safe. It's safer, but still pushing it. You only get a combined limit of around 45A from parallel 30A cells. 0.075ohm would draw a theoretical 56A.
That build would give a theoretical 235W. Of course you'd be lucky to see more than 3.2V to the atty after voltage drop from the mod and cell voltage sag with such a low resistance load , so more like 150W, which is easily obtainable with a regulated device while drawing a mere 25 amps or so.
That build would give a theoretical 235W. Of course you'd be lucky to see more than 3.2V to the atty after voltage drop from the mod and cell voltage sag with such a low resistance load , so more like 150W, which is easily obtainable with a regulated device while drawing a mere 25 amps or so.
DuckysVapeReviews
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Thinking I will personally stick with 0.25 builds and when feeling insane maybe a little lower. I have seen at a few vape contests people running 8 coils, quad double barrels, grave diggers etc. The shop requires you have a single mech 18650 mod but they provide a vtc4 and liquid. unsure what the setups ohm out to but some are massive as are the clouds. People say ask them and they open up about ohms of builds, why they chose the build style....hell no they dont. Guess they dont want competition.
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I'm really enjoying 0.2 ohms dead on my Nemesis using a Plume veil and an LG HD2. Got 4 HD2 (2000mAh 25A) and 6 HB6 that I pick 5 of (whatever is charged) to take to work.
Well within the Amp limit, mod is in good condition with temp thread lock on the switch pin, cells are in good condition, carried in a belt bag, always locked when not in use. Not so much bothered about myself, more about other people's safety, as they didn't ask to be near me with a potential pipe bomb in my possession.
Look into getting a parallel box if you fancy having some fun. I've got a 0.11 build using a pair of HB6 that's vaping nicely. Even a pair of cells die quickly at that ohms though
Well within the Amp limit, mod is in good condition with temp thread lock on the switch pin, cells are in good condition, carried in a belt bag, always locked when not in use. Not so much bothered about myself, more about other people's safety, as they didn't ask to be near me with a potential pipe bomb in my possession.
Look into getting a parallel box if you fancy having some fun. I've got a 0.11 build using a pair of HB6 that's vaping nicely. Even a pair of cells die quickly at that ohms though
DuckysVapeReviews
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Battery life is of no concern. This isnt a adv setup. I got a rta on my m80+ but the M80 is crapping out on me. Starting to develop charging problems. Think all the V006 models have this little issue. I know my rta will dead short on the smpl so gotta get something else while I send my M80+ to MadVapes.
NemesisVaper
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Then a set of HB6 would serve you well. Apparently they're being discontinued so if you want some you may have to move quickly. They're still in stock at fasttech, for genuine cells at a good price. You could always move to HD2 if you do find them dieing too quick for you, as it really doesn't take long for a 1500mAh cell to see a notable voltage reduction.
I was thinking of getting an m80 for work. I may go for a Heatvape invader mini instead. Looks very durable, I can switch out cells and I'll get to play around with temperature control. If nothing else it should help cover up a poor wick job.
Hopefully Madvapes have good customer service. If it's a known issue I'm sure they'll send another straight out.
I was thinking of getting an m80 for work. I may go for a Heatvape invader mini instead. Looks very durable, I can switch out cells and I'll get to play around with temperature control. If nothing else it should help cover up a poor wick job.
Hopefully Madvapes have good customer service. If it's a known issue I'm sure they'll send another straight out.
Its cool to see a comp providing the best battery possible for these wild coil builds...They dont want to see people getting hurt which is a good thing...As ive recommended to you many times, the vtc4 is the king of low ohm batteries and holding its position.
I dont agree with becuase a battery says its 100amps of pulse that its safe to use it in that manner..a pulse to me is a surge of protection and not an invitiation to risk your face or someone else around you..Because someone hasnt gotten hurt "YET" , doesnt mean its the smartest thing to do.
DuckysVapeReviews
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Mad vapes is the state side warranty center. Lots of forums have posts about charging issues with the m80+. It is indeed a badass mod and has its own version of TC that pretty cool. originally got it cuz.it was 80watts then got the GCT because of the TC. Original V004s even with v005 firmware would suddenly autofire and quit when TC was used. Now its charging port issue. Great product if bugs get worked out but I would trade mine anyday for a 75+ watt box. Mad Vapes is out of black so hopefully I can get something else but their choices suck and prices are kinda really high.
Faceless Vapes
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I've seen people run those at .08. I wouldn't do it but yeah. When I build that low its on a parallel mech box.
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DuckysVapeReviews
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I have a vtc4 on route now and ordering another asap. Been hearing a lot about the HB6 lately and curious about it.
Faceless Vapes
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I've been using MXJO batteries lately and I've been very pleased.
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DuckysVapeReviews
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H
e This is a standing offer lol, BEFORE I send my M80 in for repair or replacement. I will swap it even for a good 100+w or custom box mod that will handle 100+w builds or a a HeatVape VMesh after its fixed/replaced.
DuckysVapeReviews
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Heard anything about these 40A acts or AMT or wtf their name is lol?
Honestly if you are setting out to vape a .tardohm build there really is no battery on the market that can safely handle it.
As @Mike H. has said consider it a surge protection.
I mean if you are at all gung ho for risky potential life threatening behavior I can think of a few that will be slightly safer.
Fucking a junky whore with track marks on all limbs without a rubber.
Fucking a rabid ebola infected monkey.
Playing in traffic during rush hour while blind folded.
Playing chicken with a locomotive..
Playing Russian roulette with 5 rounds instead of one.
Going into the hood/ghetto and scream you hate whatever ethnic population is there.
See high risk stupid shit that will pay off dividends quicker.
Pushing that amp limit it no longer becomes a matter of safety..it becomes a matter of when it blows up in your fucking hand. If you doubt it look up the exploding mod at vapefest from about a year ago, that dude played fuck fuck games and almost killed people being a punk bitch.
As @Mike H. has said consider it a surge protection.
I mean if you are at all gung ho for risky potential life threatening behavior I can think of a few that will be slightly safer.
Fucking a junky whore with track marks on all limbs without a rubber.
Fucking a rabid ebola infected monkey.
Playing in traffic during rush hour while blind folded.
Playing chicken with a locomotive..
Playing Russian roulette with 5 rounds instead of one.
Going into the hood/ghetto and scream you hate whatever ethnic population is there.
See high risk stupid shit that will pay off dividends quicker.
Pushing that amp limit it no longer becomes a matter of safety..it becomes a matter of when it blows up in your fucking hand. If you doubt it look up the exploding mod at vapefest from about a year ago, that dude played fuck fuck games and almost killed people being a punk bitch.
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Let me set it straight for you..There is no true 40 amp continuos 18650 battery cell...its a burst..one even smaller than samsung 25r..Any questions?
I would venture to say the samsung 25r must be the safest 18650 battery cell around with a 100amp burst..despite it being 20 amp continuous,which is the important number here.
.Anyone seen a higher amp burst for an 18650 despite continuos rating?
Jesus, ive use 2 cell lipo batteries in rc cars with 4000 mah that didnt have a 100 amp burst rating...WTF
.Anyone seen a higher amp burst for an 18650 despite continuos rating?
Jesus, ive use 2 cell lipo batteries in rc cars with 4000 mah that didnt have a 100 amp burst rating...WTF
DuckysVapeReviews
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I have actually played russian roulette with a 5 shot 44 and 3 shell.skipping chambers but I see ya. point. I am sticking with the .25 build for. I am definitly drooling over the HeatVape VMesh. I mean, its a 75A regulated mechanical box that minimally pushes 150w and is less than $50. I will save my rightous bucks and grab a badass comp level rda and throw on it and go bananas IF it goes that low.
But those pulse tests are in a controlled setting.
There is no magical unicorn fart powered regulation on the battery you have a cell with positive and neg. Barring any outside or mishandling, or phase of the moon they will work within their limits approved of on the constant. So that magical step down becomes a whole lot less magical and heading quickly towards OH FUCK!
DuckysVapeReviews
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I will stick wit my single vtc4 and 0.24 builds for now. thinking I will perfect builds on it then step up to competition level cloud killer box mod and go as low. Know a guy building triple series boxes but he is fucking high as hell on them. Think even with my "buddy" discount it would still be $125. I know he only has $50 tied up in each.I would venture to say the samsung 25r must be the safest 18650 battery cell around with a 100amp burst..despite it being 20 amp continuous,which is the important number here.
.Anyone seen a higher amp burst for an 18650 despite continuos rating?
Jesus, ive use 2 cell lipo batteries in rc cars with 4000 mah that didnt have a 100 amp burst rating...WTF
DuckysVapeReviews
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Correct me if I am wrong and their is a 50/50 I am, but doesnt parallel increase the mah not amperage? Doesnt series increase the amps? I do know that every battery over one you add you can basically add half of its amperage to the total but cant remember if its series or parallel.
Faceless Vapes
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Series hits the coils with more voltage, and parallel hits the voltage of a single battery while giving you more amps to work with
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DuckysVapeReviews
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So theoritically speaking a mod running 2 parallel sleds in series would be king?
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Reason I ask, I been contimplating building this.
Faceless Vapes
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Parallel over series IMO. I'm using the new Infected Box mod by USAmademods. I'll have a review out soon.
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Im talking about each sleds 2 batteries wired parallel then the sleds wired in series. In my mind thats the best of both worlds but could be way off.
The sigelei is probably the best 150w mod out quality wise for its type and its a "series" battery connection..in any case the batteries share the load.
Putting 2
You cant have both as far i know at this point..its either series or parallel.
The sigelei 150w is set up for series by the way...A beast of a box for $70.00
Putting 2
You cant have both as far i know at this point..its either series or parallel.
The sigelei 150w is set up for series by the way...A beast of a box for $70.00
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Why couldnt you wire 2 seperate sleds parallel then wire the two of them series. In essence you would technically be wiring 2 parallel boxes togather in series or 2 big ass batteries series. I mean, maybe you cant, hell if I know. I just would follow a schematic and solder it up lol.
NemesisVaper
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That's pretty much what I already said. Regardless of what conditions it's still been tested. People are going to do risky things with cells, like it or not. Getting all theatrical and melodramatic just makes people switch off. We need to educate them not list nonsensical scenarios about playing in traffic.
Me talking about pulse specs was directly addressing the belief that all cells have been pulse tested and that a pulse duration is considered 1-3 seconds, which it is not.
Just my opinion, please don't shoot me down for it. I'm responsible for what I say, not for what someone else understands.
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NemesisVaper
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Sigelei 100W and 150W are excellent.
The reason there is less strain is due to its regulation and the board being able to exchange voltage for current. You still only get the same amp limit with two series cells than you would with a single cello of the same type. You also have the added dangers that stacking cells brings, however I've never had issues and cells have equally drained in mine.
Series mechanicals are a good way to get the same wattage at much lower amp draw using much higher resistance coils. Building 0.8 gives the same power as single cell 0.2 at way less amperage .
The safest way to get massive amounts of amps is to run all in parallel, no series. Putting two cells in parallel theoretically doubles the amps (every time you do this leave some more safety margin though). You really want something regulated to put cells in series safely so I wouldn't mess with it.
So yeah in theory if you used huge wires to connect them you could have 10 cells in parallel and get 10x the amps.
I don't recommend messing with this kind of stuff unless you know what you're doing though.
The best battery we've seen for quick pulses is the VTC4.
So yeah in theory if you used huge wires to connect them you could have 10 cells in parallel and get 10x the amps.
I don't recommend messing with this kind of stuff unless you know what you're doing though.
The best battery we've seen for quick pulses is the VTC4.
Was just pointing something out. Not in any way shooting you down but bolstering it.
I love the dip shit in the headlights look they give you when you ask what their ohm reading is, or ask what the amp rating of the battery is. Every time I get that look the reply normally is "well such and such fucktarded dip shit at such and such should be run the fuck out of business shop built it for him and have no idea.." and they wonder why it is getting hot. When it is explained to them they shrug and keep at it pushing that Darwin envelope.
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It looks like a Sony. I would find out for sure if I were you.
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NemesisVaper
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Things like battery safety are touchy subjects. People have blind loyalty to brands and it makes no sense.
My apologies if took your post out of context I am tired as I've been working nightshirts for many weeks now.
My hope is by sharing the things I know that people will make the safe decision on their own. Duckys Considered his options andd decidedto go down the route of safety rather than "clouds bro".
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The big problem is that there are a lot of shops that have no business being shops. If you're going to sell unregulated devices you need to be sure that your customer is an "advanced" user. I know for me personally when someone asks me and is just getting started I always recommend regulated devices.
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