1. THE VAPORJOES NETWORK IS GIVING AWAY A PLAYSTATION 4 PRO
    CLICK HERE FOR INFO

RX2/3 battery question.

Discussion in 'Electronic Cigarette Safety' started by Syntaxelele, Mar 4, 2017.

  1. Syntaxelele

    Syntaxelele New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    Messages:
    12
    Hello.
    Currently i am using RX2/3 in dual battery mode with Velocity V2 rda at 75w and 0.22ohm coils. After 3 days ill get TFV8 and i think ill be vaping it around 120w on the RBA section. I have two married Sony VTC4 batteries. And it shows that it is drawing 17.6amps, but battery life is short, i want longer battery life. So i am planning on getting three LG HG2's but those are 20amp batteries, and as i will probably wape at 120 watts i want to get longer battery life, but is it safe with LG HG2's? if i vape my current setup at 120w and 0.22ohm coils it shows that i am pulling 22.4amps out of batteries, and if i have LG HG2 it is 2.4amps above its limits. So is it safe to wape at around 120watts at 0.2 ohm coils with three LG HG2

    I am sorry if i cant explain everything correctly, my english is kinda bad, and i also dont understand all this amp, wattage and ohms well.
     
  2. Angrygod50

    Angrygod50 Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2015
    Messages:
    1,756
    HG2 will be fine or 25R vtc5 With 3 batteries you up the voltage so the current goes down. General rule of thumb is 75 watts per battery in a regulated mod.
     
    gakudzu likes this.
  3. conanthewarrior

    conanthewarrior Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 14, 2015
    Messages:
    3,141
    Hello :).

    What you see on your mod in regard to amps is actually what is hitting your atomiser- not what is being drawn from your batteries.

    Resistance does not matter on a regulated mod in regards to amp load on your batteries, only what hits your atomiser. The Input amp load is what you want to know.

    This is simply the your set watts, divided by the input voltage. I use cut off voltage myself, as this is where amp load would be highest.

    For a mod that cuts off at 3.1V per cell, and with your 120W, this would be 120/6.2=19.35A. You can then factor in efficiency, I generally use 90% for dual 18650 mods. With this in mind, you would be pulling 21.5A from your batteries at cut off.

    Most of the time, you will be above this and in a completely safe zone with 20A batteries.

    With three 18650's, you will be pulling a max of 13.33A in the RX2/3 at cut off, which I am sure is 9V, At 120W, so perfectly safe with 20A batteries.
     
    gakudzu and Angrygod50 like this.
  4. Syntaxelele

    Syntaxelele New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    Messages:
    12
    Thank you :) Good to know that batteries wont explode im my face =D
     
  5. Carambrda

    Carambrda Silver Contributor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,349
    I would suggest getting VTC5A batteries (not the old VTC5, but the newer VTC5A). I found that if using coils that are low Ohms at high Watts they vape stronger when compared to other batteries... especially if the battery status on the display of the Wismec is becoming almost low. I own both the Wismec Reuleaux RX2/3 and the Reuleaux RX300 so I have compared the difference between using two versus three versus four batteries. I would recommend using the RX2/3 with three batteries installed in it. It's big and heavy, I know... but the flavor is better with more batteries so it's worth the inconvenience. This is only my own personal opinion.
     
  6. TVB

    TVB New Member Unlisted Vendor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    8
    You are using a variable mod, the HG2 would be perfect for battery life, but you couldn't expect it to be as stable as the VTC when firing at an incredibly high wattage.
     
  7. Syntaxelele

    Syntaxelele New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    Messages:
    12
    Max wattage i use is around 150, and with a 0.16ohm coil head on TFV8 Cloud beast it shows that it is pulling 29.3 Amps, so that should be okay for HG2's i guess
     
  8. gakudzu

    gakudzu Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    Messages:
    2,396
    150 is pushing it, especially if your HG's are the newer 18A CDR version. VTC5a's would be safer. HB's safer still, but at the expense of runtime
     
  9. Syntaxelele

    Syntaxelele New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    Messages:
    12
    From what i have read, some guys said that for HG2's 75w per battery is fine in 3 battery device, and the amps draw shown is from regulatory chip to coils not directly from batteries.
    And also i have seen many youtubers with RX2/3 also using 3 HG2's and waping around 150w too
     
    conanthewarrior likes this.
  10. gakudzu

    gakudzu Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    Messages:
    2,396
    You're right. I slipped right passed the 3 batts part. Vape on.
     
  11. SirRichardRear

    SirRichardRear AKA Anthony Vapes on Youtube VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year Reviewer

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Messages:
    11,472
    short answer: as long as you are using good 20+ amp batts you are fine. (which you basically are)
    long answer if you wanted to understand how it works


    next video i'm gonna do triple and quad battery mods
     
    gakudzu likes this.
  12. Carambrda

    Carambrda Silver Contributor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,349
    It is safe with 3 HG2s, but what's the point of vaping at 150 Watts if the batteries simply aren't hitting hard enough to consistently keep producing a flavorful vape? It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I am using VTC5As (I have 8 of them), and I am pretty sure they hit harder than anything else available right now, but like I said in my previous reply one of the reasons why I moved from the RX2/3 to the RX300 is because 4 VTC5As still hit harder than only 3 VTC5As if you're vaping at that kind of Wattage. It also depends on how you vape (chain vaping on a regular basis or usually letting it rest for at least half a minute between puffs, just to give only one example). Also note that batteries start to gradually hit less hard when/before it's almost time for a recharge. I am not a Sony fanboy by any means, but seriously. See for yourself what all the fuss is about. You'll thank yourself for it.
     
  13. XEVU

    XEVU Equal Opportunity Offender VU Donator Silver Contributor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    883
    I have a 2/3 and was just on the Wismec site reading about this exact topic. I am no expert nor do I claim to be. I found it amusing that Wismec states that the minimum amp/battery is 25A. HOWEVER, the batteries they sell (and recommend) for it on their site are 20A batteries. LOL

    BTW LG HG2 batteries are currently on sale at ILLUMN for $4.99 each. I just picked up 11 of them. =)
    :sneaka:
     
    SirRichardRear likes this.
  14. Carambrda

    Carambrda Silver Contributor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,349
    Well I'm no expert either, but I think I know Mooch is. :hamster:

     
    SirRichardRear likes this.
  15. XEVU

    XEVU Equal Opportunity Offender VU Donator Silver Contributor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    883
    That is one long ass vid!

    I'm not a feather plucker or a feather plucker's son but I'll pluck a feathered pheasant until the feather plucker comes.
     
  16. XEVU

    XEVU Equal Opportunity Offender VU Donator Silver Contributor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    883
    Damn. Thanks for this vid. I've been vaping for a long time and this is the best explanation for batteries that I've heard.
    I really appreciate VU. I learn something new every day.
    Guess you can teach an old dog new tricks. LoL

    I'm not a feather plucker or a feather plucker's son but I'll pluck a feathered pheasant until the feather plucker comes.
     
    SirRichardRear likes this.
  17. SirRichardRear

    SirRichardRear AKA Anthony Vapes on Youtube VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year Reviewer

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Messages:
    11,472
    No problem. Glad it helped :)

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     
  18. conanthewarrior

    conanthewarrior Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 14, 2015
    Messages:
    3,141
    But they ARE 'hitting hard' enough (and in a regulated mod voltage drop is completely different to in a mechanical mod, the board compensates by drawing more amps from the battery, so voltage drop is not an issue- it will be placebo. That is until the point the batteries voltage is too low to support your set wattage, at which point power is reduced or you get a low battery message), at 150W with 3 batteries in a regulated mod you are pulling 16.66 Amps at a maximum, and this is at cut off- at higher voltages the amp load will be lower. They are perfect batteries for that type of scenario, the VTC5A is only really needed if you was vaping over 180W, under that you are pretty much just sacrificing capacity and a 3000MAH 20A cell is fine

    Only so you know for future reference, and possibly to save money if you are paying a premium for the Sony's when you don't actually need them.

    If it was a dual 18650 mod, or a mech, then the VTC5A is a fantastic choice for use at higher wattages, or lower resistances (resistance does not matter with a regulated mod), or when voltage drop does matter such as in a mech.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  19. conanthewarrior

    conanthewarrior Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 14, 2015
    Messages:
    3,141
    That is correct- what you see on screen on a regulated mod is what is going to your coil- not the amp load on your batteries.

    To work that out, it is simply Watts/input voltage/efficiency=Amp load on batteries.

    I think I already explained, but at 150W you will be pulling about 16.6A before efficiency, and at say 90% efficiency that is 18.5A- but this is at cut off, and a MAXIMUM amp load.

    In reality, you will be drawing on average about 15A.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
    SirRichardRear likes this.
  20. Carambrda

    Carambrda Silver Contributor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,349
    Just a quick question though, as I am still fairly new to vaping (it's been only 2 months for me), and my own personal experience doesn't match your explanation even in the slightest. I mean, when I moved from the RX2/3 with three VTC5As to the RX300 with four VTC5As the difference as to how hard it was hitting was far too noticeable for it to be labeled "placebo" by any stretch. The batteries were freshly charged, I didn't change anything about my RDA nor about what was in it, just unscrewed it from my RX2/3 and screwed it onto my new RX300. The resistance reported on the display was identical for both mods so I guess we can rule out poor contact between the atomizer and the mod being the culprit. If voltage drop is an issue with a mech so it won't be placebo if using a mech, whereas with a regulated mod such issue doesn't exist, then why exactly is it that so many people still prefer to use a mech? Please forgive me for my noob assumption, but something tells me the chip in a regulated mod can't consistently accurately compensate the voltage drop in the way that you describe, or at least it can't necessarily always do that, at least not to the point of "placebo". That being said, where I live the price difference between the VTC5A and the HG2 is like only about 1 Euro per battery. Even famous Mooch himself said in the video interview the VTC5A is his new preferred battery for all-round use, and in fact he also said he was almost considering to take the HG2 off his list of top recommended batteries. I could be wrong, but that didn't sound very much like placebo to me.
     
  21. conanthewarrior

    conanthewarrior Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 14, 2015
    Messages:
    3,141
    @Carambrda , no worries, it can get confusing.

    The RX300 is wired in a clever series- parallel configuration, which is two 18650's in series, wired in parallel with two more, essentially two 8.4V batteries in parallel, which gives an input voltage of 8.4V down. This is what allows it to achieve high power fairly safely.

    The difference in feel is probably due to the different mods. A regulated mod works by taking the input voltage, which is fixed depending on the charge of the batteries, and adjusting according to what you want, and what the resistance of the atomizer is. So the resistance effects the output stage of the board, but not the input side, which is where the batteries matter most, this is the part not affected by resistance.

    People prefer mechs for many reasons, such as simplicity with less things to go wrong, and also a lot find it to provide a smoother vape due to there being no DC-DC conversion going on, it is straight power from the battery. I enjoy mechs myself from time to time.

    Yes, his preferred battery for all round use- this includes mechanical mods. The HG2 is not the best battery out there, but by far means the worst, and for regulated use in multi cell mods is great. I would NOT use a higher capacity, 3000MAH cell in a mech though due to the voltage drop of these batteries.

    Just the way regulated mods work though by compensating by increasing amp load as voltage falls will mean for example 50W with one battery is exactly the same as 50W with another when it comes to what is hitting your atomiser.
    There are various sources to read how a regulated mod works, the simplest explanation is as voltage falls amp load increases to maintain your set wattage.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  22. Carambrda

    Carambrda Silver Contributor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,349
    Doesn't this assertion of yours already acknowledge my initial point, which was that a regulated mod can't necessarily always consistently accurately achieve the goal of compenstating for the voltage drop by drawing more amps, and that, therefore, batteries can, and do matter even for a regulated mod... even if the current draw stays below the maximum that the batteries are capable of. To me, the difference between four batteries vs. only three was roughly the same as vaping with four batteries fully charged vs. four batteries running almost on empty. So it's a very serious difference, to me, and (I can only guess) to the way that I am vaping, which is at 138 Watts right now.
     
  23. conanthewarrior

    conanthewarrior Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 14, 2015
    Messages:
    3,141
    No, not at all.

    In your example, a regulated mod will put out 138W from full charge, until cutoff (wether this is under load, or resting depends on the mod). Voltage changes at the input stage as the batteries drain, and also the amps drawn from the batteries increase to compensate for the drop in voltage.

    Batteries DO matter for a regulated mod though, I never claimed they didn't, but only in the case of not overdrawing them- I was explaining that a HG2 in a triple configuration used at 150W provides exactly the same 150W as a VTC5A would in the same setup and well within their CDR, and voltage under load/ voltage drop is compensated for by the board.

    There is something wrong if you found using a triple 18650 mod at say 100W felt different to using a quad 18650 mod at the same power level, the triple 18650 device is actually drawing less amps than the quad due to the input voltage in your case, so it is odd indeed- especially as it is the output stage that you will notice, not the input.

    Vaping with three batteries full vs four nearly empty, well I have no idea of the cut off of the mod, but there should be no noticeable difference as long as it has not reduced power.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  24. conanthewarrior

    conanthewarrior Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 14, 2015
    Messages:
    3,141
    @Carambrda I just did the math to double check for you at your given wattage, at nominal voltage.

    With a triple 18650 setup, you are drawing 12.43A before efficiency. Say 90% efficiency, that is 13.81A.

    With the quad, which runs two pairs of batteries in parallel, you are drawing 18.64A, and again using 90% efficiency this comes out to 20.72A. So considering these things, you should not be able to tell a difference-138W is 138W regulated, so long as the board has enough voltage at the input stage.
     
  25. SirRichardRear

    SirRichardRear AKA Anthony Vapes on Youtube VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year Reviewer

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Messages:
    11,472
    not every chip performs the same. it may not be the batteries as much as the chip. some hit a few watts low some hit a few watts high. if you set it to 100 one mod could be putting out 95 while another could be putting out 105 and a 10 watt difference can be pretty noticeable.

    also most of these mods buck only and don't boost. a triple mod is bucking from12.6V on fully charged batteries while a quad mod is bucking from 8.4. triple batt mods have a higher input voltage then quad battery mods. that could play a factor as well but i haven't really looked into it.
     
    conanthewarrior likes this.
  26. conanthewarrior

    conanthewarrior Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 14, 2015
    Messages:
    3,141
    I was thinking along the lines it could be the different mods- one outputting a lower wattage than the other may be what they are experiencing.

    I know that bucking is more efficient than boosting for sure, I haven't looked into it myself either though if bucking from a higher input voltage is more efficient than bucking from a lower input voltage, but say for example we had a board that output exactly what was claimed, 100W should feel the same as 100W on another mod, which was really what I was trying to get at. It is hard to get things across in text though rather than face to face I find.
     
    SirRichardRear likes this.
  27. SirRichardRear

    SirRichardRear AKA Anthony Vapes on Youtube VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year Reviewer

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Messages:
    11,472
    yes that is correct. 100 watts is 100 watts. the problem is that nobody has a baseline really.
    It reminds me of a conversation i seen where someone said they vape at 100 watts and liked the fuchai better then the alien because the alien felt too hard. the reality was that the sigelei was hitting too weak, but they were using it so long that was their baseline of what "100 watts" should be. so when they got a real 100 watts it felt like too much. We are all limited to our own experiences obviously but w/o testing we don't really have a baseline of what should it should be. not only that but the chips aren't going to be 100% accurate and smooth all the time and as the batteries get lower, they struggle to put out what they should
     
    conanthewarrior likes this.
  28. Carambrda

    Carambrda Silver Contributor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,349
    The voltage also drops each time when the fire button is pressed, and recovers soon after releasing again. But the amount by which the voltage drops depends not only on the charge that's left in the batteries and on aging of the batteries... it also depends on how many amps are drawn from the batteries whilst firing. So as the chip in the regulated mod draws more amps to compensate for this voltage drop, the batteries drop voltage even further due to these additional amps drawn from them. It is this additional voltage drop that confuses the chip resulting in weakened performance. At least that's my theory. :)
     
  29. SirRichardRear

    SirRichardRear AKA Anthony Vapes on Youtube VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year Reviewer

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Messages:
    11,472
    Actually at 1st the voltage is higher. When u first press what I seen in most mods is the voltage shoots up, then it drops, then levels out. But the burst and drop literally happens in a split second before the level out. What you are referring to is a boost which will usually drop 1st before the board compensates. We mostly deal with buck where the input voltage is much higher then output. Most people are vaping dual mods at 3.5-4.5 volts but the input is anywhere from 8.4-6 depending on the charge.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     
  30. Carambrda

    Carambrda Silver Contributor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,349
    No, what I am referring to is the amount by which the voltage drops during the 5 second pulse after the 30 second recovery period as shown in this chart. For the VTC5A it stays at around .4 Volts after the first 15 or so pulses until the battery starts getting low. For the VTC6 it's around .5 so the voltage drop I am referring to is bigger for the VTC6 despite the amps drawn each pulse are kept identical for the entire duration of the test. I think it's because the VTC5A has the higher amp rating between the two so the amount by which voltage is being affected whilst firing after recovery is less severe. As a result the board in the mod doesn't have to compensate for this particular factor as much. Each time when it compensates for this, it does so by increasing the amps, but a side effect from that is the batteries react to it by dropping voltage further down. As a result the board has to then figure out next how much it has to re-compensate for this side effect as it has to also take that into account if it wants to keep the wattage constant for the duration of the pulse.
     
    SirRichardRear likes this.
  31. SirRichardRear

    SirRichardRear AKA Anthony Vapes on Youtube VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year Reviewer

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Messages:
    11,472
    Gotcha, yeah while mooch is the best out there for us, so i use all his info for batteries as I'm no battery expert myself, those charts are testing single batteries under a predefined amp load. For regulated mods it's a little different because we have an input of 8.4 (on a full charge down to usually around 6ish before they are dead) and the mod is basically just stepping down the voltage for output. Individual battery voltage drop is more important to mech users then for regulated mods. hence why regulated mods actually output higher for a split second when pressing the firing button then regulated itself down, where on a mech the second you press fire you have full load of your build on the batteries.
    for a mech with a single battery at a .15ohm build is gonna run 28 amps through the battery and the battery is gonna drop (voltage drop) because of the current inrush but if you used the same build on say an RX2/3 in dual mode at 117 watts you'd be pulling only about 14 amps on fully charged batts and only need an output voltage of 4.2 out of 8.4 volts so the batteries will perform much better. since dual battery mods rarely output more then 6 volts (yes some do 7.5 volts) the load on them is pretty small and the drop isn't as significant.
     
    conanthewarrior likes this.
  32. Carambrda

    Carambrda Silver Contributor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,349
    Sorry, but I believe you've got it all backwards. The OP specifically asked about vaping @ 150W. On a regulated box resistance doesn't matter. Here's a link to Mooch explaining in smashing detail if you're running two batteries in a regulated box specifically @ 150W you'll want them to be rated to 24.6A. https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...battery-current-draw-for-a-regulated-mod.7532
    (And, for the Wismec Reuleaux RX2/3 with two batteries, @ 150W, they should be rated to 26.25A.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  33. SirRichardRear

    SirRichardRear AKA Anthony Vapes on Youtube VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year Reviewer

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Messages:
    11,472
    I have a similar video explaining it all from a while ago on my channel ;)
    I'm aware resistance doesn't matter for regulated mods. I was just explaining why the voltage sag charts don't work the same for regulated mods since the voltage is bucked down

    And 150 watts you are fine with 20 amp batteries but being safer with 25 is also a good thing. Yes u gave to count for efficiency and battery charge but we have head room already and when your batts drop below 3.7 the mod ain't putting out 150 anymore. With full charged batts at 150 watts in a dual mod your only drawing under 18 amps. But as the batteries drain u pull more amps to hit the 150.

    If u check out my channel I have a few vids on battery safety as well ;) simple fast and explains a lot in a short time. One of them is stickied on the forums in the battery section

    I rechecked my math and it was correct.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  34. Carambrda

    Carambrda Silver Contributor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,349
    With only two 20A batteries I wouldn't risk going up to 150W because they heat up quicker so if you chain vape a lot then if the weather gets hot and your RDA tends to give off heat onto your mod and your batteries start to age IMO you're playing with fire.
     
    conanthewarrior likes this.
  35. SirRichardRear

    SirRichardRear AKA Anthony Vapes on Youtube VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year Reviewer

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Messages:
    11,472
    That's fine. I never disagree with being extra cautious. Ambient temperature wouldn't have an effect though. As long as the batts don't go over 80c usually you are fine. That's about 171 degrees. Doesn't really get that hot even here in San Diego lol.

    I'm kinda forced to in order to do my testing on these mods. But it's not next to my face and it's in a test environment using lg hb6 batts fully charged never below 4 volts each and I monitor battery temp and charge for safety. You could always use the Sony vtc5a which is 25 amps. I use them in my mechs triple and quad battery mods. But for regulated I rarely vape that high on a single battery mod.



    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     
    conanthewarrior likes this.
  36. Carambrda

    Carambrda Silver Contributor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,349
    Ambient temperature does have a measurable effect on the speed at which heat can be dissipated. So if heat keeps on being generated, for a long enough period of time, at a faster rate than it can dissipate... eventually bad things WILL happen. Sometimes when the weather got cold and I was forced to walk outside to vape (stupid rules and regulations everywhere...) then I would chain vape and then would wrap my fingers around my Troll just to keep my hands warm. :cool:
     
  37. SirRichardRear

    SirRichardRear AKA Anthony Vapes on Youtube VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year Reviewer

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Messages:
    11,472
    It has an effect for sure. Like leaving batteries in a car in direct sunlight is a bad idea. ;)

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     
    conanthewarrior likes this.
  38. conanthewarrior

    conanthewarrior Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 14, 2015
    Messages:
    3,141
    Sorry to jump in, as I know this reply wasn't to me, but with a dual 18650 device I have to agree at 150W I would not suggest the HG2 (or any other 20A rated battery- I realise Mooch rates the HG2 at 18A though) due to what is being asked from them. In a triple configuration, then I would be fine with them though.

    Mooch is a fantastic source for all of us, and is one of the main people I like to get my information from myself.

    I do also understand your theory, in that when you fire, voltage drops, so more amps are asked from the battery, which in turn causes the voltage to drop further, causing a kind of vicious circle to occur. These readings are taken so fast though that the power you are asking for should be supplied as evenly as possible to your atomiser.

    The only thing that seems to make sense in your case at 138W feeling different from mod to mod is as @SirRichardRear mentioned, and one mod is delivering slightly less power than the other which does give you a noticeable difference. Also, you get to benefit from better battery life with the increase in Watt hours :).
     
  39. Carambrda

    Carambrda Silver Contributor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,349
    It's cool. :) I think I should be the one apologizing to the OP for having taken this a little off topic.

    Although my next remark might seem like it could be too far fetched, please bear with me. :D In theory you are correct the power output should, in Variable Wattage mode, remain at a pretty constant level from (a split second after) the start of pressing and holding the fire button all the way through to the end of releasing the button. The fact the readings are taken very fast would certainly help to ensure this. But then the double question remains how accurate are those readings and to what extent can batteries' voltage drops affect this accuracy? I guess it's down to the quality of the mod, the board that it uses, and possible things like that. But my theory was that the magnitude of the actual voltage drop itself is also among those factors that would determine this accuracy. Remember if the voltage drops, it oscillates until it stabilizes. I was told a quad uses two batteries connected in parallel to form a pair, which in turn is connected in series with an additional pair of paralleled batteries. Or maybe it was the opposite way? :confused: But according to Mooch if two batteries are hooked up in parallel the total Amp rating of those two batteries combined is calculated in two easy steps so first step is you have to double the Amp rating of the single battery, the second step is you have to take 15 percent off (or thereabout). I think if batteries are getting pushed relatively close to the Amp value that they are rated to, then the voltage drop might become severe enough to start to hurt vape performance. So moving from a series setup to a parallel/series-combination setup could effectively help to prevent that problem.

    That's what I think, and, because the batteries run cooler, the risks involved with batteries starting to vent because of overheating the batteries also are highly diminished. Mooch said there is no safe usage nor is there unsafe usage. There's only 80 gray areas in between. So if it both tastes better and it's safer... and it takes longer until your batteries start running low as well as you're not taxing them as hard so they actually degrade slower, then if the price difference isn't holding you back there can be only one good answer TBH. Get to da choppa.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
    conanthewarrior likes this.
  40. conanthewarrior

    conanthewarrior Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 14, 2015
    Messages:
    3,141
    Hi @Carambrda , it happens a lot, I think as long as discussion is taking place that can be of benefit to people it is good though if the original question has been answered :).

    Also, thanks for not going mad at me for having a discussion- I enjoy talking over things like this, and can take things away from it myself too.

    You are correct that it would be dependant on the board the mod uses, and the quality of it, that determines how accurately it does compensate for this drop in voltage during firing, and providing as consistent as possible power to the coil as this happens throughout your draw.

    That has actually just made me think as well, I thought it was two batteries wired together in series, wired to another pair in parallel- although either way would result in the amp rating increasing from the parallel set up so you could well be correct which way around it is, as the input voltage would still be the same starting at 8.4V.
    As you get closer to the CDR of a battery, the voltage drop does increase more and more the closer you are. Eventually, this would take a hit on performance, either with the mod reducing power and letting you know, or giving you a low battery warning.
    The third case could be a mod just reducing power without letting you know, which is obviously not the best one.

    I find with single 18650 mods, a battery such as a 25R gives me better performance if I am running it at higher wattage settings than a 3000MAH cell, even if both are rated at 20A.

    The parallel- series set up at 138W would be drawing a maximum of 24.73A, this is assuming a cut off of 3.1V per cell and 90% efficiency.
    The triple 18650 setup at the same 138W would be a maximum of 17.03A, this time assuming a cut off of 3V per cell, with the RX's cutoff of 9V, and again 90% efficiency.

    So, if we was using 20A CDR batteries, then the first example, even though it is asking for more, is actually asking for less in relative terms due to the parallel set up. The series example is getting near to the CDR.

    These are all at cut off though, so most of the time you won't be pulling as much, but if the board wasn't very good at regulating things then I guess it is possible there could be a difference of your vape not being as smooth as voltage drops throughout your draw.

    I usually don't vape at very high wattages, for me 80W is high, and 120W would be very mad and cloudy. I do not find my batteries to get warm during use, but keeping them at a lower operating temperature is a good thing.
    As you know, it takes very, very high temperatures before a battery vents, but if it tastes better to you and is safer, and you also have improved battery life,then of course it makes sense to use what is best for you :)
     
    Carambrda likes this.
  41. SirRichardRear

    SirRichardRear AKA Anthony Vapes on Youtube VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year Reviewer

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Messages:
    11,472
    I made a pretty easy to follow video. I hope it can help you understand it all a bit better ;)
     
  42. Syntaxelele

    Syntaxelele New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    Messages:
    12
    Thank you all for helping me out, from what I have read, if max wattage is 150w in 3 battery configuration, I am all fine with HG2's? Because I don't think I'll ever go higher than 150 because currently I vape mine TFV8 V8-T8 0.16ohm coil head at 100w (4 Volts and 24amps) and going any higher feels uncomfortable for me so I think that I won't vape any higher than 150 ever. Once again, thank you all for replies, I have read them all and learned a lot.
     
  43. Carambrda

    Carambrda Silver Contributor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,349
    In 3 battery configuration, yes it's perfectly fine at 0.16 ohms and 150 watts. In 2 battery configuration, 0.16 ohms at 100 watts is also perfectly fine.
     
  44. Jane808

    Jane808 New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2017
    Messages:
    102
    I have a bad experience with this battery:(
     
  45. Carambrda

    Carambrda Silver Contributor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,349
    ¿Qué?
     

Share This Page

Close This Message