Returning Vapor

Discussion in 'Help I have questions!' started by Ravenfraust, Mar 25, 2019.

  1. Ravenfraust

    Ravenfraust Member For 2 Years

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    Hello, I have been Vaping on and off since 2016. Due to the limitations and regulation on Vape products from where I live, it became frustratingly expensive and annoying to replace sub ohm coils, faulty tanks etc. so I threw in the towel and went back to cigarettes.

    Restarted vaping again a week ago and a friend got me the PHIX pod and the additional pods. I did calculate and realised although the start up was cheap, it won't be feasible in the long run. I really loved the MTL draw and the throat hit from the PHIX but I do not want to keep rebuying pods every week (It costs about 25$) out here. I researched a little and saw that apparently MTL is making a comeback now days compared to how everyone only wanted sub ohm devices back then.

    I have a Vaporesso Tarot Mini from before and the default tank it came in. I use the PHIX when I go out and the Vaporesso at home. I've literally closed down the airway just to a pinhole so I can feel the draw better albiet it sucks at MTL cause it wasn't made that way.

    I have a few questions and after shuffling through various reviews and youtube vids I would like some light shed on these few things.

    1. I have a 3mg 30/70 PG/VG Juice and there is literally no throat hit, satisfaction from it when vaped in the Vaporesso. I need to keep chain vaping and it still doesn't feel as good as the PHIX. I am content with a few drags from the PHIX.

    2. I am thinking of getting a new MTL tank. The AMMIT MTL TRA tank is available and has had good reviews and not too expensive as well. I have no idea about building coils but pre built are available. I prefer sticking to MTL rather then DTL vaping from now onwards.

    3. Would the AMMIT tank fit my Tarot Nano? And if so, I should be vaping at I suppose 8-12W? Less Wattage = less juice consumed I suppose? I prefer the flavor and throat hit instead of huge clouds.

    4. How long do these coils last? I can arrange to get cotton which shouldn't be an issue. Also would Salt Nic be better for MTLs? Or should I just get 12mg regular e juice? I know it sounds stringy but sadly vapes being banned in my country only give me a few limited options and that too on a very high price point.

    5. I have a few EUC coils left and if I replaced the juice with a higher MG one, would that give me a better throat hit/satisfaction? I've been a pipe smoker so I always loved the throat hit it gave me. I know a lot of the people prefer the smoothness, I don't :)

    Thank you for reading my post and helping me out. I'd do anything at this point to not go back to smoking if possible :)

    Regards,

    Raven.
     
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  2. nadalama

    nadalama VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Hi Raven, welcome to VU. Glad to hear that you're giving vaping another shot. Also good that you are reaching out for help with making the transition.

    A higher nic level will give you more throat hit. Also, higher PG will as well. A good, middle-of-the-road mix for MTL is 12mg nic (freebase or salt, it doesn't matter), in a 50/50 base. If that still lacks punch for you, you could increase nic to 18mg. One word - salt nic has even LESS throat hit than freebase (regular) nic. So if a lot of vapes are too wimpy for you, it's probably better to stay with regular nic.

    Coils that go into RTAs are a little different than the coils used in MTL tanks. Generally they have higher metal mass and take a bit more power to heat up. It is not unreasonable to think that you could use a 1 ohm nichrome 80 coil at 15 watts and get a decent vape from it. Finding the coils pre-built might be a challenge unless you have someone that can make some, custom tailored for you. We have several builders here in the forum who could help you with that if needed. You'd just need to explain to them what you are looking for.

    The Ammit MTL would fit on your mod. I have quite a few Geekvape devices; they are one of my favorite brands of vape gear. I personally have a Vandy Vape Berserker MTL RTA that I like very much. That would be a good choice as well.

    Coil life depends a lot on your vaping habits, but for example, if you were to find someone to build 26 ga n80 round wire coils for you to use in this scenario, I could see those coils lasting at least 3 to 4 weeks if not longer. You would need to maintain them occasionally, which means removing the cotton, dry-burning them for a few seconds at between 15 and 20 watts to get the gunk off, then rewicking with new cotton and priming with juice. A thinner wire like 26 ga will last okay as long as you don't subject it to sudden blasts of extremely high heat.

    Good luck. Stick around and ask questions if you need to. Don't be shy!
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
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  3. Ravenfraust

    Ravenfraust Member For 2 Years

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    Wow, Thanks a lot for that in depth response!

    I can purchase a 26 ga Kanthal A1 spool for quite cheap and I've been looking at videos to building a simple 1ohm coil. I've read the AMMIT is quite leak proof which is definitely what I would want. All in all, I am gonna finish my current 3mg juices and the PHIX pods and then save up to buy the tank and the accessories. I am planning to build this just want to know if it will work and last me longer than usual pre built coils. Thanks for the heads up on nic salt. Sadly only 6mg is available and 12mg is quite rare too >.<

    Build a 1 ohm Kanthal A1 26 ga coil for the AMMIT (After I've used up the stock).
    Get high nicotine juices that can last longer. I prefer to vape little if I get a good throat hit. 5-6 vapes between 30-40 mins instead of chugging all day long.
    Vape it at 10-15W depending on what I like and as it's going to be MTL it will consume lesser juice that DTL (I hope I am right)

    What do you think of this setup. The other alternative is to get the vaporesso drizzle kit which is also MTL and the coils cost about 15$ (EUC coils last quite long I feel? But then again, RTA coils always last way longer and the cotton is quite cheap as it is)

    Please let me know what you guys think. I just want to end up with a good permanent solution instead of being double minded all the time. Nearly 2 weeks of not smoking and feels GREAT! :D
     
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  4. nadalama

    nadalama VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Can you get Nichrome 80 instead of Kanthal? Nichrome has faster ramp-up time. You should not use Nichrome if you are allergic to nickel, though.

    Juice and batteries will last longer if watts are lower, so yes, you are correct.

    Doing things yourself will always save you money - true for both coils and juice, at least in the US - so the more you are willing to do, the less money you'll spend, and the more you will be able to fine-tune the vape experience that you are after.

    One thing to be particular about with coil installation - you will need a good, sharp pair of wire snips so that when you have installed the coil in your RTA, you can clip the wires close to the posts on the building deck. If those wires stick out too far, they will come into contact with the cover of the deck, and will short out your coil and it will not fire. This isn't necessarily dangerous on a regulated mod, which your Tarot is, but it is still a huge pain and something that you want to be in the habit of watching for.

    If you watch building videos you will see this being done - the wires being clipped very close, so they don't touch any other metal parts. Just fyi.
     
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  5. nadalama

    nadalama VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    The coil wrapping calculator at http://www.steam-engine.org tells me that for a 1 ohm coil you would need the following:

    Kanthal, 7 wraps of 26 ga around a 3 mm rod, mod set at 23 watts, or
    Nichrome 80, 9-10 wraps of 26 ga around a 3 mm rod, mod set at 30 watts.

    The 23 and 30 watts levels are suggestions - I know from personal experience that you can vape 1 ohm coils at lower watts than this. I really don't think 15 watts would be adequate for Kanthal coils, though, simply because they get hot so slowly. Perhaps if you have to get Kanthal, 28 ga might be better? You would need only 4 or 5 wraps of 28 ga to get a 1 ohm coil.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
  6. nadalama

    nadalama VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    By the way, if you do end up staying with factory coils, specifically the EUC coils, try the ceramic version if you can. Vaporesso makes some great ceramic coils. I used the C-cell coils in quite a variety of tanks before I switched to rebuildables, and found the life span on those C-cell coils to be phenomenal.
     
  7. Ravenfraust

    Ravenfraust Member For 2 Years

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    Yeah, I've seen a few videos. I can arrange for that. Well they have

    Dhs. 40.00 AED
    Geekvape N80 Fused Clapton Wire.

    So I am assuming this is the one? I don't think I am allergic to it, not that I think I am :). They've run out of AMMIT MTL RTA tanks and Berksers :/ I might have to wait for them sometime. But as a pipe and cigarette smoker I REALLY prefer the MTL experience. We have dirt ass cheap sheesha places for those DTL phases xD

    As for pre built they only have SS Claption Twisted coils etc. which I think are all sub ohm. Higher resistance and density = lower Ohms I think. As for cotton they only have the branded Geekvape and some cotton bacon brand. Would I be better off using normal regular cotton from a pharmacy? I know I sound stupid with such dumb questions but I'd rather have my research done instead of going and getting it and be clueless. What do you think of the above set up though? I can replace the Kanthal with N80.
     
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  8. nadalama

    nadalama VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Geekvape's fused Clapton wire is good, but not necessarily what I was talking about. Can you tell me the gauges of the wires used in it? It will be something like 26x2/36 (that's two parallel 26 ga wires wrapped in 36 ga wire). You want to be sure that it is possible to build a coil to the resistance you want that will fit into the device (RTA) you're going to buy.

    Cotton Bacon is good. I haven't tried GV cotton. These aren't dumb questions.
     
  9. nadalama

    nadalama VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Fused Clapton n80 wire 26x2/36 would take 17 wraps around a 3 mm rod to make a 1 ohm coil. That won't fit into the Ammit. It would also take forever to get hot, even if it's nichrome, simply because the coil would be so big.

    If you could find GV's MTL Fused Clapton n80 wire, you could reach 1 ohm in 10 or 11 wraps. That's still pretty large for an RTA.

    This is what I had in mind, either 26 or 28 ga:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
  10. Ravenfraust

    Ravenfraust Member For 2 Years

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    Alright. I think I can arrange for n80 wires. No fused or anything. They even have Kanthal a1 28g wires available. I've had previous encounters where I bought ALOT of tank etc and I just didn't get happy with them. I want to atleast try getting into simple RTA building and be happy with it for as long as I can be. Thank you for helping me out :) And some other websites also have the berserker (A bit expensive) and the AMMIT MTL RTA avaiable ^^

    So I guess that's all that's needed?

    n80 wire would require about 9 simple wraps around a 3mm rod and kanthal 28g would require 5-6 wraps?
     
  11. Ravenfraust

    Ravenfraust Member For 2 Years

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    Also I don't have the fancy equipment to check my ohm and resistance. I guess I can check it on my tarot nano? If this is all it's time to save up :D Also if you have any idea about the phix pods. Are they regular nics or nic salts? It just says 5mg per pod.
     
  12. nadalama

    nadalama VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Yes, you can check resistance on your mod. Kanthal 4-5 wraps of 28ga for 1 ohm.

    Do not know about the phix pods, but would guess if they are 5 mg, that's regular nic. Pod devices that use salt nic normally use higher levels, like 25 mg.

    I think you're set!
     
  13. Letitia9

    Letitia9 Therion/Nano Junkie VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team

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    Since you enjoy th don't buy the salt e liquids, salts are used to smooth th. The 12mg freebase would suit your needs better. 26 or 28g kanthal is a good starting point for a new builder. Good luck and congratulations.
     
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  14. Ravenfraust

    Ravenfraust Member For 2 Years

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    Sad news, apparantly wherever I checked MTL AMMIT RTA and the Berserker have been sold out, and due to new regulations next month people aern't stocking up at the moment :(

    They do have the Nautilus 2 but I have not checked the reviews yet. Is it good and is it leak proof?
     
  15. nadalama

    nadalama VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Nautilus 2 is not an RTA. Does use widely available coils, though, and coils are inexpensive, at least where I am. About $15 US for a pack of 5, and they last a good week or two if you take care to prime them properly. The one I have has never leaked. Provides decent flavor, also.

    ETA: Seems that I recall the N2 coils are 0.7 ohm, but the regular Nauti coils fit as well, and the Triton Mini coils. You can get them in 1.2, 1.6, or 1.8 ohm.
     
  16. Ravenfraust

    Ravenfraust Member For 2 Years

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    Good news, I actually got a final piece of AMMIT RTA MTL Tank. Cost me about 40$ though :<
    I ordered one and gonna keep it around when I start with MTL and building. Apparantly after checking 20 different websites and places, they were all out of stock :/ I guess it really has to be that good :p

    Gonna order Kanthal A1 28g wire and some cotton. Gonna start with 6mg juice and see if that is good, then build up from there.
    Thank you so much @nadalama for helping me out. Will resume this post once I start building, would definitely need your assistance.

    Oh and atleast UAE laws are being changed to allow vaping from next month so hopefully the prices will stabilize a little soon :)
     
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  17. Ravenfraust

    Ravenfraust Member For 2 Years

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    I checked the PHIX website, it says they use Nic salt in for juices at 50mg. I am guessing that's why I feel satisfied with 2-4 puffs. Any longer and I start feeling sick. I remember trying 6mg strawberry regular nic back then. It used to feel super strong. Best bet would be to start with 6mg regular nic and if that doesn't work, then move on to Nic salt. Would the AMMIT be compatible with nic salt?
     
  18. nadalama

    nadalama VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Yes. Just be aware that with salts you seriously will lose a lot of throat hit. In that case, you can't keep increasing nic salts to get more TH - beyond a certain point, it will get dangerous.
     
  19. Ravenfraust

    Ravenfraust Member For 2 Years

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    Woop, Finally got my AMMIT MTL RTA! :) Also got some cotton bacon with it. No idea how long should the cottons last though.

    [​IMG]

    Btw, I always wanted to ask. In so many videos, why do people WASTE so much cotton? They take more than required, cut off the ends which they can just utilize efficiently. Is there a reason behind it or just cause it is a youtube video that's why? :S

    I haven't got the Kanthal A1 28g but there is a stock coil that comes with the tank. Gonna be patient and wait till my current stock is over before I open it up! :D

    How should I go with heating the coil etc? Start at 5W and move up? I know the coils need to burn from inside out to be efficient. Totally new to wicking so hope I get it right the first time :)
     
  20. Ravenfraust

    Ravenfraust Member For 2 Years

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    Alright, I just opened the packaging cause I was too excited. HOLY crap this is small. I will need tweezers to work on it. It's waaay smaller than I thought it would be. I've read wicking this can be tough. My fat fingers are gonna have a hard time //
     
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  21. nadalama

    nadalama VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    The pic below looks like a good job of coil positioning to me. Obviously I am guessing, but it looks like a 3mm coil, and there's probably enough room for at least 7 or 8 wraps. You will need to snug the coil up toward the posts the way the pic shows - not touching, but close - so that the bottom of the coil is over the air "vent."

    Good thing you ordered 28ga. Good thing you DIDN'T order the Clapton wire. I didn't realize the deck was this small.

    upload_2019-3-28_9-1-55.jpeg

    I'm not sure how other people work their cotton, but I am a lot more conservative with mine than most of the folks on YouTube. I usually trim off about 1/4" on the end of the cotton that I thread through first, adjust it to the right length, then cut the other end to match. It is important to use enough, though - it's what keeps you from having dry hits, keeps your tank from spitting in your face, and keeps it from leaking.
     
  22. Ravenfraust

    Ravenfraust Member For 2 Years

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    @nadalama Thanks a lot man, you're a savior. Yeah, the build is really small and considering how I wanted to be conservative with the cotton, the whole bag of cotton bacon could last me atleast 2-3 months. I bought a vgod cubano cream cause I wanted the tobacco flavor @6mg. Gonna try it tomorrow and let you guys know how it was! I need to get those ceramic tweezers though. I won't be getting the job done without them. They only provided with the alan screw so yeah I don't think that is 3mm for coil building too :/

    But all in all, looking at this I feel the inside tinkerer waking up. Always was good with PCs and rebuilding stuff, I guess I can get my hands dirty from time to time!

    About the coil placement, there is a little slanted platform underneath the placement of the coil. I feel if I place the coil centered between that and not touching the bottom, it should do the trick. But yeah I understand now why I can't build heavy/twisted/clamped etc. etc. coils on this. I REALLY hope I get a satisfying vape from this!!! Keep you all posted!
     
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  23. nadalama

    nadalama VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Yeah, cotton lasts a long time, once you get the hang of wicking.

    I really resisted doing my own coils for a long time, but once I started, I find I really kinda love it. I love the flexibility of it, and the way you can get so many different vapes out of the same device, just by tailoring your coil to what you want. I don't do anything fancy - don't wrap my own clapton wire, for example, but I can make coils that make me very happy! :)

    Having the right tools makes a big difference. Ideally, ceramic tweezers, a couple of small screwdrivers, a coil jig set, angled fine-point tweezers, really sharp scissors, and a good, roomy case to keep everything in is great. Easier to have it all well-organized.
     
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  24. gbalkam

    gbalkam Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee Reddit Exile

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    Increase PG to 50% or higher for more throat hit.
     
  25. SteveS45

    SteveS45 Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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  26. Wb80

    Wb80 Silver Contributor

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    A coil jig and ceramic tweezers help tons and are really about the only tools i baught specifically. Everything else i just found things that worked in my tool box.
     
  27. Ravenfraust

    Ravenfraust Member For 2 Years

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    Hello again!

    So I finally decided to use the AMMIT MTL. I guess I did the wicking properly, no leaking or spit back YET. But I checked the cotton after on refill, it was brown and felt kind burnt. I didn't even get any dry hits nor I vaped above 20W. It's a 1 ohm coil which came stock with the tank. Also getting a nasty cough from the MTL, any reason for that?

    Also, when I take a big vape I sometimes get a mouthful of juice which sucks. Happens very rarely, but it does happen.

    This thing seems to CHUG ALOT of juice :/
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
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  28. nadalama

    nadalama VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I would reduce wattage just a little, say to about 17W. The coil flooding may be coming from you drawing too hard on the tank with such restricted airflow. Do you have the air as open as it will go?

    I haven't used an Ammit RTA, but I do have the RDA, and it is very restricted.
     
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  29. Ravenfraust

    Ravenfraust Member For 2 Years

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    I did reduce it a little yeah, feels better but still getting a bit of juice in my mouth sometimes. Also I checked if I wicked properly, the coil looks quite black considering I didn't fire it too high at all. Also one side of the cotton is brown and the other is clear as hell. My juice isn't THAT sugary I feel. I also have a feeling I didn't use enough cotton. I feel the cotton going inside the juice well but not deep enough to fully touch the ends if that makes any sense. And maybe I have a vapor's tongue but shouldn't MTL have better flavor? I am not getting a good flavor as much as I expected. Maybe I wicked it wrong I guess?
     
  30. Just Frank

    Just Frank Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Tobbaco flavors are known to gunk up quickly. Vape it until it starts tasting bad. To clean your coils, first take the cotton out. Fire your coil until it starts to glow. Not too much, when it starts turning a bit orange let go of fire fire button. As soon as you let go (of the fire button) let water from a faucet hit the coil. All the gunk should fall off easily. If it doesn't work the first time, repeat the process.

    You're getting juice in your mouth from sucking too hard probably.
     
  31. Wb80

    Wb80 Silver Contributor

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    Sounds like you are DL hitting that mtl
     
  32. Ravenfraust

    Ravenfraust Member For 2 Years

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    Thank you for all the help! :)

    So I rewicked cause I saw the cotton turn black and was getting a few dry hits. Now the flavor is pretty decent although I cough like a maniac on 6mg nic MTL for some wierd reason. Also, sometimes I get like a *blop* and juice comes in my mouth. When that happens the hit is usually stronger than normal. Not sure what's causing that. But the flavor does feel better. Also, I have AMMIT open on the smallest hole so it feels as close to a ciggy as possible :p
     
  33. Ravenfraust

    Ravenfraust Member For 2 Years

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    Hello.

    Posting a pick of my wick after 3 days of vaping on it. Using a 6mg VGOD Nicotine cubano cream juice. Is it suppose to look this bad in just 3 days? :S
    I feel like I used a little cotton.

    [​IMG]
    Link isn't working :O

    Here's the link to the pic:

    https://imgur.com/a/Ca4kRum
    [​IMG]
     
  34. nadalama

    nadalama VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I think it's entirely possible that your cotton would look like that after 3 days if you're (1) chain vaping, (2) vaping with low wattage, (3) vaping juice that contains a combination of tobacco and sugars and creams, or (4) vaping dark juice containing either chocolate or any other ingredient that makes juice dark, including oxidized nicotine.

    Not sure of this observation, but something you can check, it does look like you might need to use a little more cotton. Maybe not. Hard to tell.

    One other thing you might try, just occasionally open the airflow as wide as it will go, bump your wattage up to about 25-28, and DTL that thing for a few hits. Let the coil be exposed to a little more heat and maybe burn some of the gunk off.

    To me, the coil looks worse than the cotton.
     
  35. Ravenfraust

    Ravenfraust Member For 2 Years

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    Hello again,

    I had to unfortunately shelf the AMMIT MTL RTA :(. I tried re wicking 4-5 times, Couldn't change the coil because I don't have the wires or the tools to build it myself atm. Spitbacks/dry hits on DL @20W and even MTL was bad with very bland/cardboard flavor. The juice felt like it was draining but for some reason the cotton wasn't getting saturated enough. I'd understand with spitbacks if there was less cotton, but coupled with dry hits I don't know anymore. This is the pic I have attached today. I rewicked this 3 hours ago, and I vaped one tank full with loads of dry hits/spit backs. I got my friends Aspire Cleito, I LOVED the Flavor in that instantly, could feel the flavors in it.

    I REALLY REALLY want to like this tank and MTL, but with the non stop coughs, juice in my mouth and dry hits, I feel like it was wasted money. I've dry burnt and cleaned the coil atleast 4-5 times now.

    https://imgur.com/a/akJaHaA

    Any help whatsoever would be appreciated at this moment :(
     
  36. nadalama

    nadalama VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I think your wick may be a bit too short and not thick enough, and also you need to open your airflow up some.

    Dry burn that coil, too, then put fresh cotton in.
     
  37. Ravenfraust

    Ravenfraust Member For 2 Years

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    I tried putting in thicker cotton, it just won't go in. The coil is too small.
     
  38. nadalama

    nadalama VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Sorry, I wasn't clear. It looks like you are perhaps thinning the ends of the cotton too much, perhaps only on one side. It's hard to tell from the pic, just giving my observation.

    Really can't wrap my head around you getting dry hits AND getting mouthfuls of juice at essentially the same time. One condition says that your cotton isn't wicking properly, the other says you have too little cotton and the juice is pooling underneath the coil - which means the cotton HAS to be wicking. If you went through a tank of juice in a couple of hours, then your cotton IS wicking the juice - it's going somewhere - and the only thing I can figure from looking at your pic is that one side of the cotton is touching the deck (or close enough to it to wick) and the other side is not. This also kinda goes along with one side of your cotton being more discolored than the other.

    In my past experience with MTL vaping, flooding coils are caused by drawing too hard with airflow cranked down too much. I've made reference to this at least once or twice before - have you tried not drawing quite as hard? Opening the airflow up some? I know you are trying to replicate a "smoking" experience, but if it isn't working with your equipment, then it just isn't. You have to adjust a little to get things to work.

    Also have you dry burned your coil when there is no cotton in it? Dry burn it, then wipe it good with a tissue to get some of the crud off.
     
  39. Ravenfraust

    Ravenfraust Member For 2 Years

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    Yeah, I tried to open up the air flow and slow MTL drags and slow and concise DL drags. Still the same. little spitbacks, no dry hits but cardboard flavor all together. I've dry burnt the coil thrice now atleast, cleaning it properly before re wicking.
     
  40. nadalama

    nadalama VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I hate that you are having such a difficult time with this. Am out of ideas at this point, but hopefully someone will be along shortly with more insight.
     

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