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Rayon for wicks? Not a good idea...

Lefty

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IML8

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In the study, the wicks are burning I think. In a vaporizer, they float in liquid and they are heated. Gas emission should not be the same.
This is exactly right. The Flash Point of Rayon is 681.8 degrees Fahrenheit (361 degrees Celsius). That is the lowest temperature at which Rayon will begin to vaporize into gas. Carbon Monoxide is not formed in this process. Carbon Monoxide is a product of combustion of the gas. The ignition temperature of Rayon is 842 degrees Fahrenheit (450 degrees Celsius). Most reasonable vapers are seldom if ever going to get anywhere near those temperatures even by accident and certainly not on a routine basis. And, no, Rayon is not synthesized (created by compounding chemicals). It is a product of processing natural fibers which consists of a purifying wash and rinse in the final steps that removes any chemicals used during the processing. Rayon is every bit as safe as Cotton and wicks (transfers liquid) much more efficiently.
 

conanthewarrior

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I bought a bag of 200 cotton balls, as they was only a £1. It says nothing about bleaching, can I use these or do I need to boil them first?
 

Lefty

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I take it they are not labeled as organic cotton? For a small price difference I'd stick with ones labeled organic that specify how or if they have been whitened. Some organic cotton balls are whitened with hydrogen peroxide. This may or may not - according to your own taste buds - leave a bit of a taste for the first few hits on a new wick. The boiling is to remove that taste more than to sterilize them - although it will help with that as well. Some people aren't really concerned with any of that. You could try them as they are or boil them or go with organic and boil or not boil those. It's up to you.
 

R3alJim Shady

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Yeah I have to put my two cents in here as well. I've been using Rayon for well over a year and this stuff is amazing.
If you use too much and choke it, that weird popcorn taste will come out. Maybe that's the cooking the OP is mentioning. Either way, if a reaction is had, best to switch it up.


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I used rayon for awhile it came with a pack of rugged wire I bought at my local vape shop while I think I wicked awesome it held up probably three times as long as cotton and the flavor was twice as much but the rugged wire I didn't care for really hard to work with and took a lot of power to ramp up
 

conanthewarrior

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I take it they are not labeled as organic cotton? For a small price difference I'd stick with ones labeled organic that specify how or if they have been whitened. Some organic cotton balls are whitened with hydrogen peroxide. This may or may not - according to your own taste buds - leave a bit of a taste for the first few hits on a new wick. The boiling is to remove that taste more than to sterilize them - although it will help with that as well. Some people aren't really concerned with any of that. You could try them as they are or boil them or go with organic and boil or not boil those. It's up to you.
Well I'm nearly through the pack now, no off taste, but I did always fire them before I used them. Haven't used Japanese cotton in a while so shall order some this weekend, along with flavour concentrates and PG and VG and accessories, not due a mod till later in the month. Going for a squonker this time :)
 

conanthewarrior

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I have a ton of Muji cotton, which is very good, but I always go back to rayon. I do find the flavor much cleaner than any cotton I've used.
I had some rayon shipped by Bondo in his package to me. It does seem supreme to cotton, I think I may order some on the weekend instead of Japanese cotton.
 

Daniel

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Eco-wool seems to be OK, at least until I find something better.

I really, really want to say 'the sky is falling.' LOL Don't take it the wrong way please - it's just been one of those days:D

Incidentally, I've used rayon exclusively for months, and I never cook mine! I can vape the same juice for days, and the wick looks good. But I'm using it in an RM2 on a Reo.

But who knows what's going on - everyone has to do what they're most comfortable with![/QUOTE]
I also use Rayon, & have been for MONTHS. I don't feel the need to cook my rayon into oblivion and then ingest the fibers, but hey, to each their own. And for the assholes using animals to test chemicals & their reactions to them, I say why don't they have the balls to test them on themselves forst, instead of a defenseless animal? Rayon has been proven to be safe in ALL instances, EXCEPT when you cook it into ash, & I have to question the validity of an AGES old test....How can we rely on a test that was done ages ago, when the science involving vaping has progressed as far as it has?

It just pisses me off when the so called, self appointed guardians of the vape world start coming out with recommendations that what several of us have been using for months or years is suddenly deadly for us, with NO current data to support their claim. I say if one wants to vape rayon, then do so, if you want to vape cotton, so be it. But don't try to start a fire by saying that a 75 year old test is now the industry wide standard, and should be immediately conformed to. And to the scientists that want to use animals to test chemicals on, how would you like it if YOUR ass was in a cage, being fed shit to judge your reaction to it? Isn't so fucking funny now is it? There are other ways that DO NOT INVOLVE animals to be the victims of idiocy. And maybe that rash came from somewhere else, maybe leaning up against something they shouldn't have, or laying in a less than stellar bed sheet? Hmmmm?
 

AmandaD

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@Daniel What???? When on earth did I talk about Eco-wool LOL As far as I know I've never used it - I'm a rayon fan!!

I think you were quoting someone else!
 

conanthewarrior

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Just a quick question. I had some rayon sent in a nice package from Bondo, all the way to the UK, with a few presents inside, and found rayon to be quite nice.

I am not sure on the weekend wether to order japanese cotton, or rayon. I can't remember the smoke point of Rayon, but I am sure its higher than cotton so that will be the better material?

At the moment I am using unbleached cotton balls, found them at a super cheap price from my local pharmacy and they stated organic cotton, so for the past few months have been using these.

i think I prefer rayon for most applications, but I have not used go Ken doh for months, so I was comparing rayon to the cotton balls. Maybe I should buy both, as this fortnight is my supplies fortnight, where I buy tanks and vaping goods, such as PG, flavours, wire Etc.

I Lol'ed at the alpaca thread, it was a novel idea, but I definitely won't be trying any animal based products lol.
 

Daniel

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@Daniel What???? When on earth did I talk about Eco-wool LOL As far as I know I've never used it - I'm a rayon fan!!

I think you were quoting someone else!
Amanda, I do not know how your post got inserted into my reply, REALLY, I was talking to the clown with the rash from rayon... I apologize profusely...
 

AmandaD

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Amanda, I do not know how your post got inserted into my reply, REALLY, I was talking to the clown with the rash from rayon... I apologize profusely...

LOL I realized that's what had happened:D
 
I got a rash on my chest a couple days after I started using the Kayfun wicked with rayon. After spending the last week tracking possible causes, it appears that it is the rayon wick. I could taste the cooked rayon and it became more noticeable as the days went on.

I strongly suspect that cooking the rayon within a heating coil is not safe to vape. It is not possible to use rayon as a wick without cooking it to carbon when it has a heating element wrapped around it.I re-wicked every other day as the rayon was toast - completely broken down with the heat.

I went back to the mineral wick eco-wool yesterday. The rash has calmed down this AM.

There isn't anybody out there that is feeding us good reliable data on the materials we use for vaping.
We should be very conservative when evaluating new materials for ourselves.


Take a look at this study and decide for yourself: (It was written in 1975 and is not e-cig oriented)


Z Rechtsmed. 1975 Sep 5;76(1):11-26.
Acute toxicity of the combustion products from various kinds of fibers.
Yamamoto K.
Abstract
Acute toxicity of the combustion products from various fibers was evaluated in animal experiments. The materials used were cotton, gauze, acetate, rayon, polyester (PE), polychlal (PC), polyvinylidene chloride (PVDC), silk, wool, polyacrylonitrile (PAN), and modacryle (MA).

Rats, mice, and rabbits were exposed to gases released from these materials, heated with an electric heater.
In experiments with rabbits animals inhaled gases through a tracheal cannula under urethane narcosis. As indices for toxicity, the time at which animals were impaired severely, was used in rat experiments while the death time was used in experiments with rabbits and mice. The concentrations of O2 and CO in the exposure room were determined continuously, blood COHb and cyanide values were also estimated. Gases from fibers containing nitrogen impaired severely and killed the animals earlier than any other materials. Blood analyses revealed the presence of high values of cyanide in PAN, MA, and silk experiments. HCN was considered to be responsible for the high toxicity of gases from these materials. In the case of wool, despite of high toxicity of its combustion products, blood cyanide and COHb values were not very high. Gases from cotton, gauze, and rayon impaired severely and killed the animals relatively early in the exposure period. Toxicity of combustion products from these materials was attributable to CO on the basis of gas and blood analyses. Acute toxicity of PE and acetate gases, being less than that of cotton, gauze, rayon under the present experimental conditions, was explained mainly by CO. Neither severe impairment nor death occurred during exposure in PC and PVDC experiments.

PMID:
1217203
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
extracted from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1217203[/QUOTE

Sorry to being up an old thread , but I also had problems with rayon. Gave me an extreme sore throat. Tried boiling it and had no problems after that.
 

Whiskey

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laughing1_zpsjhb4gv1c.gif
 

AndriaD

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I use Japanese cotton, Shiseido. I don't burn it at all -- when I pull a gunked wick and rinse it in running water, the whole thing returns to pure white, so there's no burning at all. Considering I vape at 10w, that doesn't really surprise me.

I tried rayon briefly, but found I didn't care for the taste -- it does have a taste, and to some of us, quite unpleasant. The reason I like cotton, and that *specific* type of cotton, is the total lack of taste from the wick itself. With a new wick, I'll get a *vaguely* cottony taste for maybe 2-3 hits, and then it's gone. The rapid break-in is why I prefer Shiseido over KGD, or any other type of cotton.

Andria
 

Huckleberried

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I've never had a bad taste with rayon at all. Pure flavor from the first pull. It's ultra sensitive to picking up flavors. Hands must be SUPER clean and free of oils.

Tried boiling it and had no problems after that

I always heard boiling it created more of a mess than it's worth.
 
Only if you boil too much at a time. I boil around 20 feet at a time. I figure it's something left in the cleansing process that is irritating my throat. After boiling and drying it works great. Never noticed a flavor change either way. Just less irritating to my throat so here is my advice to the original poster:

1. try boiling it and see if that helps with the rash
2. don't set it on fire
 

PrinceWizdom

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Just finished reading the whole thread. Dunno about normal rayon but I guess different people are allergic to different ghings, just like with juice flavors. Tried a pad of fibre freaks v1 couple of weeks back and the wicking was fabulous, and so was like the taste. Just don't have the money right now (fibre freaks stuff is good quality but expensive -french made apparently) but when I can, definitely will get more.
 

kross8

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I got a rash on my chest a couple days after I started using the Kayfun wicked with rayon. After spending the last week tracking possible causes, it appears that it is the rayon wick. I could taste the cooked rayon and it became more noticeable as the days went on.

I strongly suspect that cooking the rayon within a heating coil is not safe to vape. It is not possible to use rayon as a wick without cooking it to carbon when it has a heating element wrapped around it.I re-wicked every other day as the rayon was toast - completely broken down with the heat.

I went back to the mineral wick eco-wool yesterday. The rash has calmed down this AM.

There isn't anybody out there that is feeding us good reliable data on the materials we use for vaping.
We should be very conservative when evaluating new materials for ourselves.


Take a look at this study and decide for yourself: (It was written in 1975 and is not e-cig oriented)


Z Rechtsmed. 1975 Sep 5;76(1):11-26.
Acute toxicity of the combustion products from various kinds of fibers.
Yamamoto K.
Abstract
Acute toxicity of the combustion products from various fibers was evaluated in animal experiments. The materials used were cotton, gauze, acetate, rayon, polyester (PE), polychlal (PC), polyvinylidene chloride (PVDC), silk, wool, polyacrylonitrile (PAN), and modacryle (MA).

Rats, mice, and rabbits were exposed to gases released from these materials, heated with an electric heater.
In experiments with rabbits animals inhaled gases through a tracheal cannula under urethane narcosis. As indices for toxicity, the time at which animals were impaired severely, was used in rat experiments while the death time was used in experiments with rabbits and mice. The concentrations of O2 and CO in the exposure room were determined continuously, blood COHb and cyanide values were also estimated. Gases from fibers containing nitrogen impaired severely and killed the animals earlier than any other materials. Blood analyses revealed the presence of high values of cyanide in PAN, MA, and silk experiments. HCN was considered to be responsible for the high toxicity of gases from these materials. In the case of wool, despite of high toxicity of its combustion products, blood cyanide and COHb values were not very high. Gases from cotton, gauze, and rayon impaired severely and killed the animals relatively early in the exposure period. Toxicity of combustion products from these materials was attributable to CO on the basis of gas and blood analyses. Acute toxicity of PE and acetate gases, being less than that of cotton, gauze, rayon under the present experimental conditions, was explained mainly by CO. Neither severe impairment nor death occurred during exposure in PC and PVDC experiments.

PMID:
1217203
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
extracted from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1217203
rash on your skin sounds like a reaction to latex in/on your clothing,,, or like my neighbor,, she suddenly could not tolerate her laundry soap of 20 years.

heat rash,, exposure to some kind of chemical (or change in your normal explosures like soaps)

my body has a lot of stuff between the lungs and the chest skin.. i would have to think i would have had other health issues before rayon impact could make it to my skin to alert me of something being wrong.
 

ej.exe

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I know this thread is super old, but no one addressed this thing...

Everybody assumes that I cooked the wick to charcoal - not so. I seldom dry burn or use high watts.

......I could taste the cooked rayon.......

........It is not possible to use rayon as a wick without cooking it to carbon......

........the rayon was toast - completely broken down with the heat......


Now, I'm not a scientist or anything (officially, though I love learning and researching various sciences :) ), but charcoal = carbon. Therefore, claiming you vaped on rayon until it was "cooked to carbon" is saying that it turned into charcoal.

UNLESS!

Did it turn into diamonds? I might have to try that now.... ;)
 

RonMack

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I use Japanese cotton, Shiseido. I don't burn it at all -- when I pull a gunked wick and rinse it in running water, the whole thing returns to pure white, so there's no burning at all. Considering I vape at 10w, that doesn't really surprise me.

I tried rayon briefly, but found I didn't care for the taste -- it does have a taste, and to some of us, quite unpleasant. The reason I like cotton, and that *specific* type of cotton, is the total lack of taste from the wick itself. With a new wick, I'll get a *vaguely* cottony taste for maybe 2-3 hits, and then it's gone. The rapid break-in is why I prefer Shiseido over KGD, or any other type of cotton.

Andria
Hi there, do you know of a store that carries them that I could just walk in and buy them I'm in Jacksonville Florida we have most of the big stores
 

AndriaD

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Hi there, do you know of a store that carries them that I could just walk in and buy them

Actually, no; I had thought that Sephora carried them, but when I got there (after braving the xmas traffic and crowds at the mall in 2014!), I found that they didn't; they only had Ko Gen Doh and their own brand, but no Shiseido. I ordered them from Nordstrom, which offers free shipping on everything.

It wigs me out to realize I bought this pkg almost 2 yrs ago, and have used hardly any of it, even though I rewick quite frequently, about every 3-4 days.

Andria
 

SirRichardRear

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Hi there, do you know of a store that carries them that I could just walk in and buy them I'm in Jacksonville Florida we have most of the big stores
I don't use them personally but there is a store called h-mart that sells them by me. it's an asian supermarket store.
 

RonMack

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Actually, no; I had thought that Sephora carried them, but when I got there (after braving the xmas traffic and crowds at the mall in 2014!), I found that they didn't; they only had Ko Gen Doh and their own brand, but no Shiseido. I ordered them from Nordstrom, which offers free shipping on everything.

It wigs me out to realize I bought this pkg almost 2 yrs ago, and have used hardly any of it, even though I rewick quite frequently, about every 3-4 days.

Andria
Cool thanks, says that just penny's has them too I'll probably go with nordstrums
 

RonMack

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Actually, no; I had thought that Sephora carried them, but when I got there (after braving the xmas traffic and crowds at the mall in 2014!), I found that they didn't; they only had Ko Gen Doh and their own brand, but no Shiseido. I ordered them from Nordstrom, which offers free shipping on everything.

It wigs me out to realize I bought this pkg almost 2 yrs ago, and have used hardly any of it, even though I rewick quite frequently, about every 3-4 days.

Andria
I'm on it
 

Swerved

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Love me some Rayon. It is by far the easiest thing I've worked with for a wick. I have tons of the stuff, however I keep going back to Drago Egyptian Cotton. Very hard to work with but the flavor is unbelievable and if by some chance you do run it dry, its very forgiving and you don't get the OMFGIMGUNNADIE! look on your face. But yeah, Rayon is and has been nothing but good to me.
 

RonMack

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i wanted to try the ko gen do but im not sure what the specs are dont want to vape ground up bugs, the F5 cotton had none of that stuff in it at all, thats what ive been using
 

inspects

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After using Rayon I can't use any thing else. :)
^^^^DITTO^^^^ fantastic jooce flavor from the get-go, without the cotton taste.

Can vape the same wick for a couple weeks, pull it and the portion inside the coil is still as white as when installed...!
 

RonMack

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i wanted to try the ko gen do but im not sure what the specs are dont want to vape ground up bugs, the F5 cotton had none of that stuff in it at all, thats what ive been using

OK I wanted to give an update I talked to my mom whom actually grew up on a 60 acre farm in S.C. the specks are just particulates from the hull or shell of the cotton boll which are just parts of the outside of the blossom
 

scalewiz

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OP's post quotes "Toxicity of combustion products from these materials was attributable to CO on the basis of gas and blood analyses.".
Tells me that these substances were set on fire, definitely not a condition under which any normal person could possibly vape. If a vaper has a problem burning up their wicks they will quickly learn or give it up. No problems have yet developed, worldwide, due to any particular wick material.
 

Markw4mms

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Rayon is all I really use now, I have a bunch of cotton that will likely never get used as I bought a 500' coil of rayon about a month ago.
 

Synphul

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Being necro'd and all this showed near the more recent threads. Gave it a read and I'm wondering if the ill effects it has on people aren't due to some sort of allergic reaction. It seems unlikely that vaping something and inhaling internally would cause a surface rash on the skin. Maybe some of the rayon fibers came loose during wicking or handling and got in their shirt or on their chest? Being caused from the vaping I'd expect some sort of internal irritation, inflamed lungs, coughing, that sort of deal.

Similar complaints of rashes (on the skin surface) have come from a handful of folks regarding mattresses which use bamboo mattress covers (typically cheaper ones). Some people even thought they'd been lied to and equated the fibers to those of fiberglass so made the assumption that it was 'fake' bamboo and really fiberglass or something. Rayon is often used and despite the 'bamboo' marketing that's where rayon can be sourced from. It can come from other sources as well but if the cellulose used to create the semi synthetic polymers happens to come from bamboo as a source it gets named something more appealing.

TL;DR, it's not uncommon for some people to have allergies to rayon fibers similar to the sort of skin irritation that comes from fiberglass or other fibrous materials. Rare but possible. Still sounds plausible if it's an epidermal reaction/rash. If it's irritating to the outer layers of skin it's likely to be irritating to the internal skin like the mucous membrane of the lungs also. Just like a nut allergy, people may be unaware until they come into contact. It doesn't make nuts 'bad', means they have to take care to avoid them.
 

Ishkabibble

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i wanted to try the ko gen do but im not sure what the specs are dont want to vape ground up bugs, the F5 cotton had none of that stuff in it at all, thats what ive been using
I really like KGD but it takes a minute to break in. But holds juice real well once saturated.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

Bigbob2322

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For all of you telling good folks to use rayon, STOP IT! You are probably just paid by big rayon to inundate these vape forums with pro-rayon views. So why don’t you just admit it!! You guys are on Sally’s payroll and you know it. How many of you “vapers” hold stock options in rayon heavy companies? Ya that’s what I thought. Nah but rayon wicks nice and gives you some flavorful vapor. Cotton’s dead!! Long live Sally!

Love it, laughing my ass off. :D
 

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