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Rayon for wicks? Not a good idea...

Real Extract in Seattle

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I got a rash on my chest a couple days after I started using the Kayfun wicked with rayon. After spending the last week tracking possible causes, it appears that it is the rayon wick. I could taste the cooked rayon and it became more noticeable as the days went on.

I strongly suspect that cooking the rayon within a heating coil is not safe to vape. It is not possible to use rayon as a wick without cooking it to carbon when it has a heating element wrapped around it.I re-wicked every other day as the rayon was toast - completely broken down with the heat.

I went back to the mineral wick eco-wool yesterday. The rash has calmed down this AM.

There isn't anybody out there that is feeding us good reliable data on the materials we use for vaping.
We should be very conservative when evaluating new materials for ourselves.


Take a look at this study and decide for yourself: (It was written in 1975 and is not e-cig oriented)


Z Rechtsmed. 1975 Sep 5;76(1):11-26.
Acute toxicity of the combustion products from various kinds of fibers.
Yamamoto K.
Abstract
Acute toxicity of the combustion products from various fibers was evaluated in animal experiments. The materials used were cotton, gauze, acetate, rayon, polyester (PE), polychlal (PC), polyvinylidene chloride (PVDC), silk, wool, polyacrylonitrile (PAN), and modacryle (MA).

Rats, mice, and rabbits were exposed to gases released from these materials, heated with an electric heater.
In experiments with rabbits animals inhaled gases through a tracheal cannula under urethane narcosis. As indices for toxicity, the time at which animals were impaired severely, was used in rat experiments while the death time was used in experiments with rabbits and mice. The concentrations of O2 and CO in the exposure room were determined continuously, blood COHb and cyanide values were also estimated. Gases from fibers containing nitrogen impaired severely and killed the animals earlier than any other materials. Blood analyses revealed the presence of high values of cyanide in PAN, MA, and silk experiments. HCN was considered to be responsible for the high toxicity of gases from these materials. In the case of wool, despite of high toxicity of its combustion products, blood cyanide and COHb values were not very high. Gases from cotton, gauze, and rayon impaired severely and killed the animals relatively early in the exposure period. Toxicity of combustion products from these materials was attributable to CO on the basis of gas and blood analyses. Acute toxicity of PE and acetate gases, being less than that of cotton, gauze, rayon under the present experimental conditions, was explained mainly by CO. Neither severe impairment nor death occurred during exposure in PC and PVDC experiments.

PMID:
1217203
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
extracted from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1217203
 

UncleRJ

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IMHO, nice call!

I am really paranoid about using synthetic fibers as a wick.

If silicon fibers make it into your lungs, they are there to stay

Granted that I have no real science to back this up, but I kinda sorta believe that lung tissue can kinda sorta deal with any fragments of organic materiel that shows up there.

Hence my addiction to Ramie fiber (after boiling of course).

And of course the gasses you have just mentioned.

But if you find a similar study for Ramie, please let me know at once!
 

AmandaD

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[QUOTE=". Gases from cotton, gauze, and rayon impaired severely and killed the animals relatively early in the exposure period. Toxicity of combustion products from these materials was attributable to CO on the basis of gas and blood analyses. Acute toxicity of PE and acetate gases, being less than that of cotton, gauze, rayon under the present experimental conditions, was explained mainly by CO. Neither severe impairment nor death occurred during exposure in PC and PVDC experiments.

PMID:
1217203
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
extracted from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1217203[/QUOTE]

So, you're vaping exclusively with silicon now?
 

Real Extract in Seattle

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[QUOTE=". Gases from cotton, gauze, and rayon impaired severely and killed the animals relatively early in the exposure period. Toxicity of combustion products from these materials was attributable to CO on the basis of gas and blood analyses. Acute toxicity of PE and acetate gases, being less than that of cotton, gauze, rayon under the present experimental conditions, was explained mainly by CO. Neither severe impairment nor death occurred during exposure in PC and PVDC experiments.

PMID:
1217203
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
extracted from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1217203

So, you're vaping exclusively with silicon now?[/QUOTE]

Eco-wool seems to be OK, at least until I find something better.
 

AmandaD

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So, you're vaping exclusively with silicon now?

Eco-wool seems to be OK, at least until I find something better.[/QUOTE]

I really, really want to say 'the sky is falling.' LOL Don't take it the wrong way please - it's just been one of those days:D

Incidentally, I've used rayon exclusively for months, and I never cook mine! I can vape the same juice for days, and the wick looks good. But I'm using it in an RM2 on a Reo.

But who knows what's going on - everyone has to do what they're most comfortable with!
 

UncleRJ

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monty-python-my-brain-hurts.jpg

Please let me know when you start using small words in large print with colorful pictures!
 

chickenmonkey

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LOL With a Reo the bottle, at the bottom of the mod, is connected via a tube to the atty. when you press the bottle - or 'squonk' the liquid is fed up to the atty. So, it's dripping upside down!
Oh that's pretty cool. Do many people use this method?
 

AmandaD

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There's a growing clan of us - once you've fallen in love with a Reo nothing else is as good. If you go over to ECF there's a whole forum, where Rob (the creator) hangs out. Lots of useful info and pics http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/reos-mods/ (He doesn't have a presence on another forum as far as I know, although we do have a thread here).

And his website: www.reosmods.com
 

Giraut

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I am really paranoid about using synthetic fibers as a wick. If silicon fibers make it into your lungs, they are there to stay. Granted that I have no real science to back this up, but I kinda sorta believe that lung tissue can kinda sorta deal with any fragments of organic materiel that shows up there.

The safety of silica wicks has been discussed ad nauseam. Google it. In short, silica rope is amorphous silica that doesn't get lodged forever in the lungs like crystaline silica, and it's not dust since it's always wet, so it does't go flying around in the stream of vapor anyway. So it's perfectly safe.

As for cotton, it tends to burn when used as a wick. Not much, and not fast, but it does. Burning = combustion.

I believe both are really quite safe, but I pick silica as the safer of the two.

I too tend to be paranoid, but only after I research the issue and I can't find reasonable evidence to put my fears to rest. This is definitely not the case here.
 

st_andrew

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I've heard bad things about using ceramic wicking fibers (ready wick).. Namely cutting the wick creates small fibers that are very bad for you.
Now rayon too.. If I was a materials engineer I could see a bright future in researching a new safer wicking material
 

Lefty

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I got a rash on my chest a couple days after I started using the Kayfun wicked with rayon. After spending the last week tracking possible causes, it appears that it is the rayon wick. I could taste the cooked rayon and it became more noticeable as the days went on.

I strongly suspect that cooking the rayon within a heating coil is not safe to vape. It is not possible to use rayon as a wick without cooking it to carbon when it has a heating element wrapped around it.I re-wicked every other day as the rayon was toast - completely broken down with the heat.

I have no vested interest in what you use as a wicking material. You are welcome to use what you like. Perhaps silica is the best bet for you as it doesn't burn. If you were tasting cooked rayon and it was breaking down with the heat why did you not pull the wick and attempt to get it wicked correctly? Was this not an indication to you that you hadn't got it right? It is certainly possible to use rayon as a wick without cooking it to carbon. Did you think everyone who used it simply lied about performance and taste? If you use any material as a wick and burn it up the experience and effects are not likely to be good. If this was your experience I'm surprised it ever made it to the point you had a physical reaction.
 
Last edited:

Ryedan

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I got a rash on my chest a couple days after I started using the Kayfun wicked with rayon. After spending the last week tracking possible causes, it appears that it is the rayon wick. I could taste the cooked rayon and it became more noticeable as the days went on.

I strongly suspect that cooking the rayon within a heating coil is not safe to vape. It is not possible to use rayon as a wick without cooking it to carbon when it has a heating element wrapped around it.I re-wicked every other day as the rayon was toast - completely broken down with the heat.

It's great that you've found what works for you. I have no issue with silica either, though I find it doesn't wick very fast. I can set up both cotton and rayon so it stays wet enough to not burn. Rayon needs significantly more of it in the coil than cotton does. Too much cotton or too little rayon and they will burn.

That's been my experience, but as always YMMV :)
 

Cloudy Peak Vapes

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Been using rayon for at least a month now exclusively. I've noticed nothing but positives from it. It has no taste, is easier for me personally to work with as well. Being an avid runner, I tend to know if something is affecting my respiratory system, and it hasn't for me at all. I had so many issues with organic cotton, I rarely got it right, and tended to choke my wicks, thus leading to burning. Not good at all.

When I heard the word rayon I admit I was very hesitant to say the least. I do, however, believe that we don't know the true safety of any of this. I say use what you're comfortable with, unless hard data arises that proves it to be unsafe. Also, just like anything, some people are allergic, and if you are, don't use it. Vaping is a constantly evolving hobby for me, and I'm sticking with my rayon for the moment.
 

-=Rob=-

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Just curious... Are you all boiling your rayon first, or using it right out of the package?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Scuba-Matt

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I got a rash on my chest a couple days after I started using the Kayfun wicked with rayon. After spending the last week tracking possible causes, it appears that it is the rayon wick. I could taste the cooked rayon and it became more noticeable as the days went on.

I strongly suspect that cooking the rayon within a heating coil is not safe to vape. It is not possible to use rayon as a wick without cooking it to carbon when it has a heating element wrapped around it.I re-wicked every other day as the rayon was toast - completely broken down with the heat.

I went back to the mineral wick eco-wool yesterday. The rash has calmed down this AM.

There isn't anybody out there that is feeding us good reliable data on the materials we use for vaping.
We should be very conservative when evaluating new materials for ourselves.


Take a look at this study and decide for yourself: (It was written in 1975 and is not e-cig oriented)


Z Rechtsmed. 1975 Sep 5;76(1):11-26.
Acute toxicity of the combustion products from various kinds of fibers.
Yamamoto K.
Abstract
Acute toxicity of the combustion products from various fibers was evaluated in animal experiments. The materials used were cotton, gauze, acetate, rayon, polyester (PE), polychlal (PC), polyvinylidene chloride (PVDC), silk, wool, polyacrylonitrile (PAN), and modacryle (MA).

Rats, mice, and rabbits were exposed to gases released from these materials, heated with an electric heater.
In experiments with rabbits animals inhaled gases through a tracheal cannula under urethane narcosis. As indices for toxicity, the time at which animals were impaired severely, was used in rat experiments while the death time was used in experiments with rabbits and mice. The concentrations of O2 and CO in the exposure room were determined continuously, blood COHb and cyanide values were also estimated. Gases from fibers containing nitrogen impaired severely and killed the animals earlier than any other materials. Blood analyses revealed the presence of high values of cyanide in PAN, MA, and silk experiments. HCN was considered to be responsible for the high toxicity of gases from these materials. In the case of wool, despite of high toxicity of its combustion products, blood cyanide and COHb values were not very high. Gases from cotton, gauze, and rayon impaired severely and killed the animals relatively early in the exposure period. Toxicity of combustion products from these materials was attributable to CO on the basis of gas and blood analyses. Acute toxicity of PE and acetate gases, being less than that of cotton, gauze, rayon under the present experimental conditions, was explained mainly by CO. Neither severe impairment nor death occurred during exposure in PC and PVDC experiments.

PMID:
1217203
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
extracted from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1217203
This test is 40 years old. Well before the new wood fiber rayon was developed.
This is a report on synthetic rayon fiber and others. Not the same as rayon fiber made from wood. The test was a combustion test (FIRE releasing gases) My wicks don't make a flame when I use them. Do you know what eco wool is made out of?
 

Cloud79

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My first thought on the op was the wick must have been choked. I haven't had really a single issue with choking rayon in the coils like I had with cotton. I rewick at most once a week and my rayon barely has a darkened spot on it after so much time vaping on it. Cotton wouldn't go 3 days without a black spot or more built up in it. I'm thinking user error on that point, but I can't say anything as far as composition goes because I am no Scientist.
 

Celtic Fog

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I love rayon, I would not recommend it in a closed system like a Kayfun or for rebuilding aspire or kanger coils. As for RDA's, looooooove the stuff. Just takes a little getting used to when it comes to wicking it, once you get it down, its amazing. I have not charred the rayon, i drip often, never seen flyaways like i did with ekowool or with silicone and no nasty cotton taste. As for trusting any reports from 75, I'll pass lol.
 

Cloudy Peak Vapes

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I love rayon, I would not recommend it in a closed system like a Kayfun or for rebuilding aspire or kanger coils. As for RDA's, looooooove the stuff. Just takes a little getting used to when it comes to wicking it, once you get it down, its amazing. I have not charred the rayon, i drip often, never seen flyaways like i did with ekowool or with silicone and no nasty cotton taste. As for trusting any reports from 75, I'll pass lol.
I have been using rayon exclusively for months, and pretty much exclusively in Kayfuns. Just curious what makes you think it would be an issue in a tank? It is such damn good stuff.
 

Celtic Fog

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I have been using rayon exclusively for months, and pretty much exclusively in Kayfuns. Just curious what makes you think it would be an issue in a tank? It is such damn good stuff.
In my working with the Rayon, I have found it needs to be changed more often, just wouldn't want to see people having to break down the tanks every day. Once it starts to flatten out, time to change or it can lead to major coil clogging time. I don't have any kayfuns yet, but I think I will try ceramic wick when that time comes.
 

BoomStick

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I use cotton in my kayfun and it only gets changed when my coil gets gunky and needs dry burned and cleaned. I have zero issues with cotton.
 

Cloudy Peak Vapes

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In my working with the Rayon, I have found it needs to be changed more often, just wouldn't want to see people having to break down the tanks every day. Once it starts to flatten out, time to change or it can lead to major coil clogging time. I don't have any kayfuns yet, but I think I will try ceramic wick when that time comes.
I'm the opposite. I have six kayfuns wicked with rayon, some at easily a month. If the juice doesn't gunk, and you don't change flavors, or do so minimally, it lasts forever for me. Way better, and easier than cotton. You might be surprised, it's made me lazy as shit about rebuilding, actually. Whenever I'm almost empty, I just refill, though I know I need to re wick ideally. It just lasts. I love it.
 

VinceV1

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In the study, the wicks are burning I think. In a vaporizer, they float in liquid and they are heated. Gas emission should not be the same.
 
Last edited:

pulsevape

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I've never heard of anyone having any sort of allergic reaction to rayon.it is wood based and is not a synthetic fiber.
 

Giraut

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I've never heard of anyone having any sort of allergic reaction to rayon.it is wood based and is not a synthetic fiber.

Rayon is 100% a synthetic fiber, even if comes from wood. My understanding is that it's pretty harmless though. Not everything man-made is toxic you know...
 

Tonemofo

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I got a rash on my chest a couple days after I started using the Kayfun wicked with rayon. After spending the last week tracking possible causes, it appears that it is the rayon wick. I could taste the cooked rayon and it became more noticeable as the days went on.

I strongly suspect that cooking the rayon within a heating coil is not safe to vape. It is not possible to use rayon as a wick without cooking it to carbon when it has a heating element wrapped around it.I re-wicked every other day as the rayon was toast - completely broken down with the heat.

I went back to the mineral wick eco-wool yesterday. The rash has calmed down this AM.

There isn't anybody out there that is feeding us good reliable data on the materials we use for vaping.
We should be very conservative when evaluating new materials for ourselves.


Take a look at this study and decide for yourself: (It was written in 1975 and is not e-cig oriented)


Z Rechtsmed. 1975 Sep 5;76(1):11-26.
Acute toxicity of the combustion products from various kinds of fibers.
Yamamoto K.
Abstract
Acute toxicity of the combustion products from various fibers was evaluated in animal experiments. The materials used were cotton, gauze, acetate, rayon, polyester (PE), polychlal (PC), polyvinylidene chloride (PVDC), silk, wool, polyacrylonitrile (PAN), and modacryle (MA).

Rats, mice, and rabbits were exposed to gases released from these materials, heated with an electric heater.
In experiments with rabbits animals inhaled gases through a tracheal cannula under urethane narcosis. As indices for toxicity, the time at which animals were impaired severely, was used in rat experiments while the death time was used in experiments with rabbits and mice. The concentrations of O2 and CO in the exposure room were determined continuously, blood COHb and cyanide values were also estimated. Gases from fibers containing nitrogen impaired severely and killed the animals earlier than any other materials. Blood analyses revealed the presence of high values of cyanide in PAN, MA, and silk experiments. HCN was considered to be responsible for the high toxicity of gases from these materials. In the case of wool, despite of high toxicity of its combustion products, blood cyanide and COHb values were not very high. Gases from cotton, gauze, and rayon impaired severely and killed the animals relatively early in the exposure period. Toxicity of combustion products from these materials was attributable to CO on the basis of gas and blood analyses. Acute toxicity of PE and acetate gases, being less than that of cotton, gauze, rayon under the present experimental conditions, was explained mainly by CO. Neither severe impairment nor death occurred during exposure in PC and PVDC experiments.

PMID:
1217203
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
extracted from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1217203
I have been Vaping for well over a year now And started with cotton. After about a month I switched to rayon and have not looked back. I have never cooked a wick to the point that you have, but I would say if it was charcoal than you were doing something wrong. I can't imagine what it tasted like, but I would imagine I would pull it after the seco charcoal hit.....lol. Hope you figured it out before you got hurt!
 

Real Extract in Seattle

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I have been Vaping for well over a year now And started with cotton. After about a month I switched to rayon and have not looked back. I have never cooked a wick to the point that you have, but I would say if it was charcoal than you were doing something wrong. I can't imagine what it tasted like, but I would imagine I would pull it after the seco charcoal hit.....lol. Hope you figured it out before you got hurt!
Everybody assumes that I cooked the wick to charcoal - not so. I seldom dry burn or use high watts.
 

BoomStick

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Personally, my wicks don't gunk up, my coils do. The only reason I even change my wick is because I have to remove it to dry burn and clean my coils.
 

fwtechwiz

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I use rayon, and only change out the wick when I'm making a marked change in flavor that would not mix well together. Otherwise, I can go a week or more with the same wick. On a change of flavor, two or three hits max and I've got the new flavor going strong.
 

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