Opinion/Commentary: The Responsibility of American Vapers

Discussion in '#BANTHIS' started by MyMagicMist, Oct 19, 2019.

  1. MyMagicMist

    MyMagicMist Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    The Responsibility of American Vapers

    I want to place a few thoughts out here for consideration, discussion and possibly some kind of action. Not sure I have any answers much less all answers. That is not why I am writing this. My goal with this is to simply unload a lot of negative feeling, mauled over into hopefully something positive.

    Look at how vaping has changed our world. Many people might not see "much" change vaping has brought. Well, if you save one life you've also saved one world. Vaping has saved lives, scores of them. Vapers ought to feel proud in encouraging others to get away from tobacco.

    That aside, vaping in America will set the standard for vaping all over the world. The U.K. at the present seems to be raising the banner of saving lives higher. Glad they are doing that too. Still, I think many can agree that America sets the stage and we genuinely need to step up and do so.

    Flat out, our leaders here in America are not doing well at all. There is so much corruption and heading down the wrong things to do we can barely keep sight of what is right. One thing that is right is saving lives. Since vaping does that we need more of it in the world. We don't need less by having India ban it and be following what it sees in America, "save the children".

    What American vapers need to do is find a way to help bring vaping back to India. Yes, I know we likely ought to mind our own business too. Also know there's a lot of difficulty to doing such a thing.

    What else do I know? Well, America should be held in high honor. We're not. There is a lot going on right now, not simply the vaping. I'm not going to get into it other than to say allies need to know allies are there when needed.

    "Don't give up the ship!" - Capt. James Lawrence USS Chesapeake ("Dying command" in engagement with HMS Shannon -- War of 1812)

    It seems as though America is content to give up the ship. We toss aside allies. We create lies about something good that get believed all over the world. We neglect our responsibility to help save the ship we call Earth. American vapers need to step up and end this nonsense, get us back on the right path.

    Our fault India made the ban, our mess to clean up. Our leaders won't, that should be clear. And no, I'm not here to lead, nor follow. Walk beside me. No idea where I'm going but that's okay too. I know we'll get there quicker. :)

    Apologies for a bit of opinion without any clear solution/s. I've just felt really bad regarding a lot going on, vaping is part of that. I can see that it is going to come down to each individual. Add the individuals up and you got a crowd. Two people, it is said in many words of wisdom, can move mountains. Thought I could voice a call out to that spirit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
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  2. pulsevape

    pulsevape Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    hmmmm. yeah maybe vapers should start on something closer to home, like say for instance stop supporting China .....a regime that is killing people in Hong Kong, has actual real internment camps for Uygher, is demolishing Churches, among many many other things....takes some responsibility for that...or work on getting vaping legitamized in our own country, as the political class are at the point of banning it.

    I used to love National Geographic as a kid......I loved those articles about some people with bones in their noses running around with a head full of feathers and naked except for a belt of shrunken heads around their waist.I was really happy those people existed...I did not feel anyone had a right to change or civilize them or force them to use the proper pronoun to avoid misgendering anyone, or to make them recycle their shrunken heads to end climate change, or learn to accept Jesus as their lord and savior....and me and the headhunter were on the same page..he knew and accepted the fact without reservation or carving out a space for himself on the victim pyramid.....that ..if he attempted to come to America and start trying to find new heads for his collection...he would be shot dead.....he had no problem with that arrangment and neither did I....we were both free to not only be who we were, but to advance our own unique history.

    India is an ancient, and remarkable culture with a history that reflects some of what other people would call breath taking ignorance and brutality...to one of the single most tolerant and enlightened societies ever formed by humans.and it has a whole shit load of issues to deal with that may have a higher priority than vaping.....the idea that a restriction on vaping is the fault of America is not only insulting to India, it is giving America way to much credit for it's influence on a civilization that was ancient and sophisticated long before America was born. It villifies America and Infantilizes India.. India has embraced and benifited greatly from it's interaction with Europeans...Democracy, the idea of Women's equality,the idea of abolishing it's caste system, and the West has benfieted equally..the mathmatical concept of the Zero, the introduction of Hindusim,Buddhisim,Jainisim, yoga, aryuvedic medicine,non violence,meditation...and though we can influence and learn from each other....the solution to graft and corruption in India needs to be an Indian solution that comes from and makes sense to them.

    Besides America hasn't accepted vaping....why should we concern ourselves with India, until we get our own house in order....Like Jesus said......deal with your own moat first dude.......then and only then India may consider if our experiment is of merit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
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  3. MyMagicMist

    MyMagicMist Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Well a person can see that in what I wrote. Can assure that is not what was intended in any manner.

    I agree to this, though also feel America does bear out some responsibility. India used the same rationale being used here in America to bring American leaders to trying to ban vaping, "save the children". America provided an example, I believe, in this case. Yes, I know India will do as India chooses regardless. I understand your illustration of headhunters, and not interfering.

    As I said I'm not anyone with all the answers, or even one. Appreciate your opinions on the matter. They offer some further insight to consider.
     
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  4. lordmage

    lordmage Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Gold Contributor ECF Refugee Member For 5 Years

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    something to keep in mind worldwide corruption exist some place are more moral than others but if your rich enough you can get anything anywhere and india is one of those places unfortunately
     
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  5. pulsevape

    pulsevape Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    This may have more to do with India's policy on vaping than anything coming from the US....


    "India is the second largest producer and third largest exporter of tobacco in the world. The tobacco industry provides employment to ~46 Mn people. With the evolving facilities provided by the Tobacco Board of India, the market has recorded a total (manufactured and unmanufactured tobacco) export of INR 60.84 Bn in FY 2018."
     
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  6. bobnat

    bobnat VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Bullshit! That's the same paternalistic attitude that pisses off the people of the world when it comes to the USA. India is a sovereign nation. You really think the politicians of India are weak-minded simpletons that need the Americans to show them what is right? It's this self-centered view of the world that is characteristic of American culture today, and has been of American geopolitics (and the West as well) and that has led to us fucking up people's shit for quite some time.

    My advice is get your own house in order before you try to clean up someone else's. The Indian government has their own reasons for doing what they do and they sure as hell don't look towards the US for moral fucking guidance. You do know that for 60 years we supported their arch-enemy, right? You do know that?
     
  7. lordmage

    lordmage Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Gold Contributor ECF Refugee Member For 5 Years

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    i betting on this is the biggest reason why vape was banned to protect there tobacco jobs and also possibly due to that corruption thing i talked about before
     
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  8. MyMagicMist

    MyMagicMist Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    This is twice that advice was repeated. America is not only my house. America belongs to the People, people that come from all over the globe too. I am not the only one accountable for corruption in America. Would that be the case I'm sure someone would have no trouble in telling me to off myself, or in fact offing me and having all the world's problems solved. Think so?

    As I have stated twice before. I wrote this as an opinion, not an answer or solution. I do not have those nor do I pretend having them. It is still America where I live. One can freely voice an opinion that America sets an example. That is what I did. That opinion is why I also believe America's influence, wrong, or right may have had just that, influence on India's choice.

    Do I think India incapable of such a choice? No. Nor did I say that they were incapable. What I said was I hold the opinion America sets an example, and I believe in doing that possibly influenced India's choice. With the opinion I then further think if such is the case we in America as vapers need to fight for our choice to vape, we need to help get it back for India too.

    Again, I'm not offering answers. Well I might offer one. Vote. Get rid of the ones claiming to represent us yet only serve corporations, themselves. I'm going to register as independent because I do not see any choice in the "parties". My vote across the board for local, state, federal will be write in votes of []Other ______No Confidence_____.

    I think if enough people were honest they too would not have any confidence in a system corrupt from the inside out. Further, if enough people voted No Confidence, the Electoral Colleges cannot vote either. How is that for a resounding message of peaceful assembly to redress grievances?

    The government then would do what? Would it lock in place all the ones already there? Well then that creates a dictatorship by default. That will not stand in a Republic ruled by democracy. The People will have elected no government, at least not one corrupted as the one we have.

    So then, does the government realize they're checkmated? They will not be able to anything without a vote, if they do it will break the oaths to the Constitution which grants the People by power of vote the right to elect representatives. If no reps are voted in and none out that creates taxation and lack of representation.

    That is part of the same reasoning we declared independence from England. Consider this is about something very simple, ... choice. We all need to have the freedom of choice. Sure, it is about vaping and it is also about a lot more, but it all continues boiling down to choice. My mom taught me a simple lesson, well two really.

    She has a good motto for living. "Live and let live." Then, she taught me and my two brothers about free speech. We needed to go into the county courthouse one day. Well, it happened to be the same day that the K.K.K was out having a march and passing out pamphlets. One of them approached us. Mom kind of stiff armed him and excused us past him.

    He shot off the comment, "I'm free to speak what I want as long as I'm not hurting anyone to do so."

    Her reply has stuck with me, "I'm also free to not listen to anything you say, have a good one."

    If my posting (an) opinion/s rouses so much ire in you, please do use the site's handy ignore feature to ignore my posts. Know there are a few I don't read on here. I do try to fairly read, comprehend the views of others.

    I like to think for myself like that, take many points of view in and form my own thoughts and views. That is also part of free speech too. Sometimes even if you don't like what someone says, or how they dress, or what have you, you still need to at least be fair. I do that as best I'm able. Then too, I also recall my mom's reply.

    This is not written as a personal attack. Not sure why I have to keep clarifying what I wrote was opinion. Thought I had clarified that in the post title and within the subtext of the piece written itself. And people tell me I need better reading comprehension, okay, sure.

    Offering more clarity to my point of view here. I do also agree modern Western society ought not presume to dominate the globe, or meddle with headhunters. This goes back to the live and let motto. Then, I also believe in the Golden Rule as well. This for me means that if I'm ignorant of something, it's nice if someone teaches me. I appreciate that. Ergo, would it not be nice to teach others stuff they might be ignorant about? It does follow the Golden Rule.

    Again, I've no answers. Would be great if I did. What I do have though is curiosity, a desire to help make better. That I have learned requires a lot of thought, discussion, free exchange of ideas, opinions. Last I checked this is a freely available public forum and discussion was not a violation of the rules. Figure I've spoken enough then on it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  9. pulsevape

    pulsevape Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    I don't think that anyone is directing any Ire toward you...having your opinions questioned and refuted is not a personal attack..it's called dialouge.. despite what SJWs huddled in safe spaces think....it is how societies evolve peacefully.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
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  10. MyMagicMist

    MyMagicMist Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    I agree though it seems at least from my point of view, it is forgotten people can have opinions. That is all I was presenting, an opinion. I will not qualify it with being a good, or bad opinion.

    Yes, I comprehend the points expressed to refute my opinion. I still think to some degree American vapers need to help keep vaping viable for everyone. Still think it does come back down to choice and the freedom of that.

    Apologies, that is not quite what or how that was intended as being said. I too listen to those I disagree with about subjects. I too find it of value to hear differing views. My point in suggesting someone not listen to views they don't like again returns to choice. Everyone has free say as much as everyone has free choice to not listen to what is said.

    I have @Carambrda on ignore it seems on a revolving constant basis. I still peek in on and read what he says. Damn it sometimes he makes perfect sense. Sometimes though he reads as abrasive. I don't always want to read someone being what I would consider an abrasive troll.

    And I'm sure sometimes @Carambrda would be proud to be called a troll. I am sure there are times I read as a prick, or asshole, troll too. We all have that freedom just as we all have the freedom to not listen. Sometimes @Carambrda posts opposing views but not merely to argue, sometimes there is a lot of good reasoning behind those views. So yes, I do listen in once in a while to see what he's saying.

    There are some others I ignore and do not peek in on. These are very few, very rare cases. They are genuine malcontents with nothing of value to put into discussion. I am not the only one who reads this from them. That's my example in hopes it clears up what I'm meaning suggesting a freedom to choose not listening.
     
  11. Belladona

    Belladona Gold Contributor ECF Refugee

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    I’ve always believed that countries should handle their own business. America shouldn’t be the ones helping out all other countries clean up their mess. It seems America always has to come to the rescue for other countries, when America can’t even fix its own issues.

    As vapers, I believe we should educate all those we can. Even if it’s just random strangers telling us vaping is bad for us. We take that opportunity to educate them on vaping and hopefully plant a seed to change their mind about vaping.
     
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