5150sick
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Onerous new FDA rules will increase smoking
- Thread starter 5150sick
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stevegmu
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This isn't true at all-
Under the FDA's current proposal, nicotine-delivery products created after Feb. 15, 2007 — including e-cigarettes and other vapor devices already being sold and used by consumers — would be taken off the market until they pass a tremendously onerous and expensive authorization process.
Existing products won't be pulled from the shelves; they simply won't be able to be sold after 24 months if they don't pass the approval process...
Under the FDA's current proposal, nicotine-delivery products created after Feb. 15, 2007 — including e-cigarettes and other vapor devices already being sold and used by consumers — would be taken off the market until they pass a tremendously onerous and expensive authorization process.
Existing products won't be pulled from the shelves; they simply won't be able to be sold after 24 months if they don't pass the approval process...
I'll admit I'm parroting numbers I've heard from others here, and you may well be right - have you researched actual device approval costs, or could you link me to someone who has? If the sources I've seen are wrong I'd certainly like to know...
FIFY.
The FDA is about all about money and influence. Any public health benefits that result are entirely incidental. You could say down-right accidental.
I gotta say the endgame is to get people off nicotine.....and it's working.....I was hanging out ona busy street in Berkely Ca, the other day, and not a single person I watched smoked or was vaping......have to say the state run engineering toward nicotine is working pretty good....they aren't afraid of us.
That's just semantics. It is 100% true - after the 24 months...
stevegmu
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No. It's the difference between a author with an agenda and the truth...
explain how is it different .....
stevegmu
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One is true, the other isn't. E-cigs won't disappear from the shelves as they go through the approval process, as the authors would have some believe...
That is not what people are concerned about ...they are concerned the small modders are going to be run out of bussiness, they are afraid that the small juice makers will be run out of bussiness, the are afraid they won't be able to get nicotine to DIY their won juices.....they are afraid that 3 or 4 corporations are going to control the whole industry.and that the prices through taxtion and regulation is going to make vaping very expensive.
stevegmu
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Small modders will just continue to sell on FB as they do now. If someone selling e-liquid can't or wont test their ingredients and conform to cleanliness standards, they shouldn't be in business in the first place. Nicotine isn't going anywhere, neither are flavors, nor cotton, nor kanthal, as the fear mongers would have many believe.
Big Vapor already controls most of the electronic cigarette market... Taxes will be levied by states, not the federal government...
not honest steve....you and I both know the goverment uses regulations as a way to protect the interests of the big coporations and keep small bussiness from threatening their markets.
stevegmu
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Plenty of small businesses thrive among Giants in other regulated arenas..Why would electronic cigarettes be any different?
Come on steve you're not being honest...goverment regulations is one of the major impedments for small bussinesses and you know it.For Christsakes these assholes have even handed out citations to lemonade stands...the net results is we are going to have people selling e juice outta the trunks of cars in the home depot parking lot like the chicks who sell tamales outta they trunks of their cars......the goverment/corporations sat by and watched the people build a multi billion dollar industry and now they are going to take it away from them.now that it's profitable.....this is piracy plain and simple.
stevegmu
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I don't drink in the US, but I do recall seeing more craft brewery labeled bottles of beer at the grocery store than those sold by Big Beer; in one of the most heavily regulated industries in America...
It's time for the e cig world to rise from the fringe depths and show it is a professional industry. Remaining in the gray area of non regulation isn't the way for vaping to become mainstream.
My opinion really makes no difference, however, as there will be regulation. What is sad is the vendors and forums who feed the fear and prey on vapers worried their e cigs will be pried from their hands or removed from the shelves the day the regulations are enacted...
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Yeah and what do you think the start up capital on one of them is.....so the rich get richer.....if you haven't noticed banks aren't looking to hand out loans these days....personally I take it as bullshit to see the guys who built this industry be forced out so some yuppie ass little hipster whose daddy can bankroll him takes over the guys market..especially seeing as how most of the leaders of the vaping community have gone to extremes to produce a safe and quality product ...
stevegmu
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Starting an e cig business is no different than any other industry, although it may be more difficult to get loans, credit card processing and investors in a non regulated market. The hobbyist e liquid and mod makers won't go legit with or without regulation... The China mod makers aren't going anywhere; FasTech and Alibaba won't be shut down, neither will be the flea market or eBay resellers...
If the leaders of the vape community can produce safe, quality products, regulation won't be an issue for them...
true!
that is total bullshit....every year Tyson chicken big time donor to Bill Clinton...posions people with the shit they produce...they have a little recall...get slapped on the wrist for their indescretion and bussiness goes on as usual( they take a few senators and FDA officals out for lunch on a yacht full of underage call girls and get a campagin donation)....meanwhile An Amish farmer who sold raw milk to a handfull of people who knew him and his product went out to milk his cows one day, and a squad of FDA thugs with full body armor and full automatic weapons kick down the doors of his barn and haul him off to jail....it's bullshit like you're selling is why people think capitalisim is bad.because what we have in America now isn't capitalisim..it cronyisim.
And the goverment is using cronyisim to hand over the vaping industry to the corporations...what do you mean IF the leaders of the community can produce a safe product ...they already do....if you don't like their product don't buy it....if you have doubts don't buy it.....tell you what let these people alone ...and give me a choice...meanwhile people like you are free to go down and buy your juice with a little goverment stamp on it....
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stevegmu
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I buy chicken, ham, buffalo and the occasional ostrich from local or family owned farms. They have no problem competing with BigPoultry or Armour. The farm I buy ham from is doing so well one has to reserve a ham around the holidays, or they won't have any left. They are well run operations, however, who operate within USDA guidelines. I don't feel sorry for the guy selling illegal dairy products. One is free to make and consume non pasteurized milk or cheese if they wish; selling it, not so much...
While I wont drink the malt water Americans call beer, I do enjoy non pasteurized, non filtered Pilsner Urquell while in Prague and CR. Such beer would be illegal in the US, however...
What the fuck are you saying... free no I'm not free to do as I wish I have to pay the goverment and ask permission from the goverment. you are lying ...tell the truth...people are not free...people have to pay the goverment a toll...now justify it if you can but don't lie about it..it is not freedom....and you're full of shit I've talked to many many organic meat growers and it is very difficult and expensive to do bussiness....
stevegmu
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There is quite a fifference, legally, when makes and consumes their own food, and when one wishes to sell it...
There are many, many successful independent farmers and ranchers. Organic bison, free range chicken and ostrich and hormone free ham is in high demand. The smart farmers and ranchers have adapted to the market and thrive.
Life isn't easy or cheap; the ones with the desire and wherewithal to succeed do. Businesses fail; that's a tenant of capitalism...
you're full of shit
If you think about it, the bulk of the vaping industry would eventually disappear by design. Most people vape to get away from smoking. For me, that part is done. Smoking is not something I would crave if I stopped vaping now. I am vaping 6mg now. I started at 18mg for a week, and then 12mg for quite a while. I will drop to 3mg, and then go to 0mg. At that point, it is just an oral habit. I quit biting my nails, I got this.
Point being. A large majority of folks will switch to vaping to quit smoking, and then taper off and quit vaping altogether. At some point, only the hobbyists will be vaping.
The elephant in the room that nobody speaks about is that the addiction to cigarettes comes from the carefully designed cocktail of additives, added with FDA approval by big tobacco, that enhances, if not replaces, the much milder, plain old nicotine addiction. I say that because I can go for hours without a vape, I could not go 20 minutes without a cigarette. The nicotine is the same... Hmmm... FDA approved addiction enhancers.... Vaping must die...
Sorry, but you are out of your mind if you think the FDA is concerned about our health. FDA regulation is about money. $ billions. And vaping is a threat to the tobacco industry which generates billions of dollars for the local, state, and federal governments. They generate money not only off of sales taxes, but through the agreed upon lawsuit money against the tobacco industry back in the '90s. This revenue is based upon % of sales. Additionally, states issue bonds with future tobacco revenue as collateral, and as a way to improve their credit rating.
With the vaping industry cannibalizing the tobacco industry's revenue, government stands to lose big time. And they are not going to just let it happen. With cigs being as bad for you as they are, the governments can justify the exorbitant taxes to "discourage" their use (they don't actually want you to quit smoking). With studies coming out that vaping is 95% safer than analogs ( http://time.com/money/4005030/vaping-healthier-cigarettes-expensive/), that is a huge threat to revenue. If vaping is that much safer than smoking cigs, then there is no justification for taxing and regulating the industry as much as the tobacco industry. So watch, you're going to continue to see government "study" after "study" decrying how bad vaping "actually" is for you. That it's no safer than smoking.
Check out this NY Times article to see how much revenue is at stake for the federal, state, and local governments.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/weekinreview/31saul.html?_r=0
With the vaping industry cannibalizing the tobacco industry's revenue, government stands to lose big time. And they are not going to just let it happen. With cigs being as bad for you as they are, the governments can justify the exorbitant taxes to "discourage" their use (they don't actually want you to quit smoking). With studies coming out that vaping is 95% safer than analogs ( http://time.com/money/4005030/vaping-healthier-cigarettes-expensive/), that is a huge threat to revenue. If vaping is that much safer than smoking cigs, then there is no justification for taxing and regulating the industry as much as the tobacco industry. So watch, you're going to continue to see government "study" after "study" decrying how bad vaping "actually" is for you. That it's no safer than smoking.
Check out this NY Times article to see how much revenue is at stake for the federal, state, and local governments.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/weekinreview/31saul.html?_r=0
^^^^^^^^^^^^^true words.......think about it....if in fact vaping is aknowledged as a great boon to the public health...the goverment will not only be forced to stop trying to impose a sin tax on it, because it is benifical.....the goverment will be forced to subsidize vaping as a health improvmnet....
and even if they impose heavy sin taxes on vaping which they can....what then is their justification for protecting the tobacco lobby..what is the difference if they get their money from vaping or smoking....as far as I can tell...they want us dead..they want as many of us dead as possible...the Social Security system is a ponzi scheme,and the scheme is collapsing...the reality is people are living longer than they did when SS was created ...decades longer...the goverment can't afford the wieght of tons of healthy people collecting SS payment and drawing on the medicare system which all elderly do....the goverment would love to see all the old fucks just die.
and even if they impose heavy sin taxes on vaping which they can....what then is their justification for protecting the tobacco lobby..what is the difference if they get their money from vaping or smoking....as far as I can tell...they want us dead..they want as many of us dead as possible...the Social Security system is a ponzi scheme,and the scheme is collapsing...the reality is people are living longer than they did when SS was created ...decades longer...the goverment can't afford the wieght of tons of healthy people collecting SS payment and drawing on the medicare system which all elderly do....the goverment would love to see all the old fucks just die.