Not another wattage question

Discussion in 'Coil Building' started by Ryan_AlanUSN10, Jun 18, 2019.

  1. Ryan_AlanUSN10

    Ryan_AlanUSN10 New Member

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    ok, sorry but I’m curious as to what most of you guys are running it terms of wattage on your coils. So many factors come into play here.

    A. Mech mod or regulated

    Mech mods aren’t controlled wattage you’re basically gunna get whatever your battery is putting out to the coils and I’ve seen some coils get pushed well into the 100+ watt range

    Would those same coils be pushed at 100+ in a regulated mod?


    B. Material

    SS, Ni80, Kanthol to name the common ones. Do either have different tolerance on heat or wattage. I’ve noticed it seems Ni80 can run higher or hotter than SS. (While maintaining flavor that is)

    C. Resistance (ohms)

    Single coil .2-.35ish
    Dual coil .08-.15 (common)

    Obviously higher wattage on lower resistance is what you’re going to need to pump out clouds and smoke.


    D. Wraps

    Triple core, quad core, frame staple, Mohawk, single coil, width, diameter, a million and one possibilities out there with all the advanced coil wraps people are throwing down these days, are some used specifically for higher wattage and temperatures?

    Let’s get down to a scenario

    Regulated mod, RDA, .10 framed staple Alien coils Ni80 taste good from 70-95 watts but can they be pushed higher? How hard would you push them? Does it affect the coil life and safety? All valid questions I’m working with. I’ll admit being new to very low ohm coils with advanced wraps I just don’t know how hard to push it or stay safe in the 70-90 range. If I was running say a mech mod I wouldn’t have control over it and the same coils would be forced to push out 100+?? So whats the difference mech or regulated on the coils?

    I enjoy the cloud production and the advanced builds on RDAs and I guess could consider myself a cloud chaser. I’m thinking of picking up a mech mod. But having control over the wattage and output on the same RDA you put on a mech is a nice luxury. Also being able to play with temp control on the respective coils that accept it is nice to.

    Anywho, sorry for the long post and newb questions just seeing what some of you more seasoned veterans use in terms of wattage or coil preference.
     
  2. JuicyLucy

    JuicyLucy My name is Lucy and I am a squonkaholic Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years VU Challenge Team ECF Refugee

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    Do not pick up a mech until you learn ohm's law and understand how it relates to vaping safely, it is clear you are not ready for that


    This is untrue: the batteries will produce what the coil tells the battery; if the battery isn't rated for the amount of amperage demanded by the coil, that's where you get into trouble and just may vent the battery


    A vaporizer should never produce smoke, only vapor. If smoke is produced it means it's catching on fire.


    Start here - you need to learn ohm's law before preceding any further: Mooch's blog | E-Cigarette Forumhttps://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/blogs/mooch.256958/
     
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  3. Ryan_AlanUSN10

    Ryan_AlanUSN10 New Member

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    Thank you so kindly for your non relevant answer. :) so your telling me that you can control what wattage that is going to your coil? No.... you can’t... yes your coil will dictate that. As well as the battery. I’m very familiar with ohms law. I’ve been an electrician for 10 years...I’m so sorry my newb ass said smoke instead of vape. It’s obvious you misunderstood. I guess I can dumb it down for you.

    What wattage do people using regulated mods push their advanced coils. Like the one I had described before
     

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  4. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Maybe pushed to 100W plus. However if you read the actual voltage at the soil terminals while firing and use that voltage for your ohms law watts calculation you may be surprised.
    Most batteries output voltage drops down a LOT when under the cells maximum load.

    also take Lucys advise, it is good advise.
     
  5. JuicyLucy

    JuicyLucy My name is Lucy and I am a squonkaholic Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years VU Challenge Team ECF Refugee

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    In a mech, your battery puts out what the coil's ohm tells it too

    That is how you control your mech
     
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  6. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Learn Ohms law.
    A 100W light bulb at 120 volts will run at 100 watts.
    If ran at 240 volts it would run at 200 watts. for a very brief time.

    regulated mod can raise the output voltage to generate more watts in a coil.
    With results varying up to a fire in your atty.
    With a mechanical mod the watts are controlled by how good your battery is and the resistance of your coil. Resistance too low and too much current from your battery and you run the risk of blowing yer face off.


    Vape, but vape safe.
     
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  7. Ryan_AlanUSN10

    Ryan_AlanUSN10 New Member

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    I’ve done the calculations on the wattage I’m using with the resistance I have and yes the voltage varies, however it’s actually higher than what the calculation formulates. I’m also using pretty decent batteries for a regulated mod 2x (sony VTC6s) can I fully trust what my chip set is telling me? No? Obviously not. If I took a fluke to it I’m sure I could get some interesting findings. Again, I’m asking a pretty general question. Thank you for atleast answering it rather than telling me to go read up on something I practice daily
     
  8. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I am a 40 year electronics Tech (retired now) with quite a bit of electrical wiring and factory electrical/electronics maintenance experience.
    I have actually measured the mod output voltage of a mech when firing both with a Fluke meter and a scope. Also the output voltage is quite different under load from a fresh charged cell and one used for 10 or so hits under high load.

    Go to moochs site and look at the discharge graphs for your cell and see how much the voltage sags under various loads.
    Mooch is the defacto expert on li cells and vaping.
    Trust Mooch on this, disregard labels and such entirely.
    also lots of fake cells out there buy only from Mooch's recommended vendor list, also on his blog site.
    https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/blogs/mooch.256958/
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
  9. Ryan_AlanUSN10

    Ryan_AlanUSN10 New Member

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    I have a very similar background 8 Year Aviation Electrician and current Senior Avionics Technician for Lockheed Martin. I understand the maximum continuous Amperage in your battery has a lot to play into this and is more important to understand than the voltage that will drop as the battery drains (causing your fresh battery say *example* 120W first few drags to drop *example* to say 97W and lower as the battery drains) if the voltage of the battery *example* 3.6 with whatever coil you’re using exceeds the max Amperage rating.. you’re gunna have a bad day ahha

    Either way here. HOW MANY WATTS DO YOU RUN ON YOUR REGULATED MODS WITH LOW OHM ADVANCED COILS!!!

    I’m sorry for my quick bit of frustration as I don’t like being told to study ohms law when my question asked nothing at all close to it except for “I’ve seen mech mods push 100+ Watts to the coils with a fresh battery)

    I’m gunna go out on a limb and say it may have been a stupid question and I’m gunna expect answers like “learn ohms law” “vape what taste good to you” etc etc. but I’m just trying to get a good feel for what others are intentionally trying to get in terms of wattage to the coils on either a mech or regulated mod and with such low resistance coils that can handle the load, do people actually push them them that high?

    ***edit***

    Thank you for that link!! I’m gunna dig into that tonight
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
  10. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I don't use advanced coils.
    I found that for me I like round wire builds. and under 50W.
    As advanced as I get on coils is a parallel round wire build. a 2 wire coil not 2 coils although I do that too in dual coil attys.
    I prefer SS316l wire.

    Most of us on here are concerned for new vaper safety and why one will often get the learn ohms law reply.
    We like for you to vape safely and also to avoid giving vaping a bad image by blowing yer face off :D

    My rule on watts to use is no rule, just whatever gives you the vape you want without being unsafe or setting fires :)
    That wattage will vary a lot depending on the atty, coil mass, airflow, etc.
    It is all pretty much trial and error to get what suits YOU.

    BTW a belated welcome to VU.
    Hang around it gets smoother as people learn you experience level and such.
    Overall a good bunch of people here.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
  11. Ryan_AlanUSN10

    Ryan_AlanUSN10 New Member

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    Thank you! I definitely understand the need for safety in vaping. To be honest i just find it easy and convenient having a regulated mod. Not to say I’m incapable of doing the math and creating a cloud monster safely I’m just getting back into it and find more pleasure in setting up nice RDA decks with beautiful coils that can chuck clouds than dicking around with having 9 battery’s
     
  12. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I use switchfet /mech squonk mods daily.
    Took a bit to find the proper coils build for them and the attys I use but nice once you do.
    And since I vape around 35 watts on them I do not have to take a lot of batteries. And with the switchfet I do not have to worry about over-discharging a cell.

    anyway again Welcome to VU. Enjoy your play and stay.
    We have several that like the complicated builds and clouds here.
     
  13. MrMeowgi

    MrMeowgi The Vapin' Drummer Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    You don't have to push 100 plus watts to coils on a mech is what JuicyLucy was saying. Your batteries don't make the wattage. Your coils do. So you can run 30watts on a mech if you want. Your ohms just have to be higher. But as far as regulated mods and advanced coils. It's where ever is a comfortable vape for you. Some like to run a .3ohm coil at 30 watts. Some will run the same coil at 50 watts. It's so subjective to the specific user.
     
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  14. Ryan_AlanUSN10

    Ryan_AlanUSN10 New Member

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    I got cha. Just curious what people were running. I suppose a .1 could run 120 watts but I prefer it at 70-90. Just seeing if maybe others are pushing it more and maybe if I wanna vape that range I should tone back my coils a little. Again as you said all subjective to what you like and the aforementioned factors that come into play. Just don’t wanna fuck around and blast my coils at 160 and have them split open on me because of X factor and Z Factor.
     
  15. BoomStick

    BoomStick Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Being a ford mechanic for 10 years doesn’t mean you understand the detailed nuances of other car brands. When you say stuff that isn’t true for vape gear, you’re going to get corrected. You do in fact control wattage in a mech by building to specific resistance values as the voltage is fixed. So you’re adjusting the resistance to control watts. Variable wattage mods control watts by adjusting applied voltage. Also, the resistance alone of a coil means little without considering the geometry (size and shape and stuff). There are a million combinations of wires that will give the same resistance number. Some could be tiny coils and some huge. So only considering resistance is ignoring many important variables. Plenty of folks willing to help, but you can’t be wrong about stuff and be a dick. I was an electronics technician for years (not an electrician which is what you said you were first and means jack with regards to electronics) and when I got into advanced vape stuff I had to learn stuff about this new equipment I’d never screwed with before. Welcome and good luck.
     
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  16. BoomStick

    BoomStick Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    As far as watt levels to use with a variable wattage mod, I’ve always thought it best to start too low. Keep cranking it up until it’s obvious you’ve gone too far. Then back it down to the sweet spot.
     
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  17. Ryan_AlanUSN10

    Ryan_AlanUSN10 New Member

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    So voltage is continuous in Li batteries you might use for vaping? There’s no drop or change in wattage at all? Is that what you’re telling me?

    ** not being an arse genuinely curious,
    Depending on the battery and voltage drop it won’t affect the wattage? Minimally maybe???
     
  18. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Not in a regulated mod.
    Until the battery voltage gets low enough that the mod may start reducing the wattage to a level that it can maintain.
    This will happen sooner at higher wattages.
    Regulated mods are supposedly designed to not pull the battery voltage below a safe level.
     
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  19. BoomStick

    BoomStick Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Technically yes, but the vape community uses 4.2 as the number to use for the voltage number in a single battery mech because it gives the highest possible amps the battery plus the build will pull. Since the power falls as the voltage sags or the battery discharges, using 4.2 in your calculations lets you compare that number to the battery’s continuous discharge rating. Makes sure you won’t cause a battery failure.
     
  20. Ryan_AlanUSN10

    Ryan_AlanUSN10 New Member

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    Ok but do the math. At a low battery of 3.7 vs a full battery of 4.2 you will absolutely loose wattage. Maybe I just don’t understand ohms law. But yes “in the vape community” you would build your coil based on a full 4.2 charge as to not exceed the maximum Amperage. In regards to your previous statement telling me just because I’ve worked on advanced aircraft electronics more sophisticated than you’ll ever know that I’m not a vape wizard. You’re right I’m not. But as an electrician I can most certainly tell you that your voltage is not “fixed” as you believe it to be.
     
  21. Ryan_AlanUSN10

    Ryan_AlanUSN10 New Member

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    Yea I’ve never had a problem on my regulated mods. It’ll just cut out and tell you to check battery. I’m referring to the Mech Mods and the common Ni Batteries people use in them. They do loose voltage. Just not significantly. I would assume if you built your coil right you can hold a pretty good steady voltage in a mech. I’ve just heard of cloud chasers always having to change battery’s due to the low resistance.
     
  22. MrMeowgi

    MrMeowgi The Vapin' Drummer Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Lower ohm, more power, faster drain. So need to charge batteries more often
     
  23. Ryan_AlanUSN10

    Ryan_AlanUSN10 New Member

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    New VTC6s are great for Regulated mods. 3000MAH
     
  24. MrMeowgi

    MrMeowgi The Vapin' Drummer Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    It's like you keep switching which device you wanna talk about. First how many watts do we use on regulated. Then you want to get a mech. You talked about mech users having to change batteries throughout the day. Now back to vtc6 in regulated. But yes 3000mah has great runtime compared to a Vtc5a. But the 5a has more punch for a mech and a higher amp rating than the vtc6.
     
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  25. Ryan_AlanUSN10

    Ryan_AlanUSN10 New Member

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    The topic was originally coils, specifically low resistance advanced wrapped coils and the difference of wattage or power applied to them in a given mod. Mechanical or Regulated. I’m not changing topics by talking about the new X or Y RDA and how good it’s air flow is. It’s all relevant.
     
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  26. SteveS45

    SteveS45 Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Yes, the biggest factor is what coil is which determines what Wattage. Also what metal is another factor to consider because TC can be cranked to the MAX with Low Temperatures (Regulated). Way too many variables for one succinct answer. Mech's or Regulated are two totally different worlds. Good Luck
     
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  27. Ryan_AlanUSN10

    Ryan_AlanUSN10 New Member

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    I concur, totally different world. And different coil builds. I’m finding most of you mech users use a higher resistance coil to obtain longer battery life. Not really sacrificing vape production necessarily.
     
  28. BoomStick

    BoomStick Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Ok, you’re just a fucking asshole. I worked on sophisticated military electronics in the Marines. You know everything so I’m gonna bail on this. Navy air wing huh? Arrogant too? Good luck.
     
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  29. gsmit1

    gsmit1 Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I have read this whole thread and this is another one of those times when I'm not sure I should say anything, but Lucy's right my friend, You are not ready for unregulated/unprotected devices. I say that as somebody who could have probably used more research when I got my first one too. There was this great deal on a Dotsqounk on Craigslist and I got it anyway.

    No sir, this is not correct. The same coils can most times be used in either world. The results can (but not necessarily) be vastly different depending on a list of factors.

    I'm not looking to make a new enemy here, but Lucy was trying to help you and believe me, she has a lot more knowledge and experience than either of us. I was quite frankly a bit put off by your unnecessarily sharp response to her.
     
  30. SteveS45

    SteveS45 Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Mechs and Regulated are TWO Different worlds because with Regulated you will never blow your fucking FACE OFF unless your batteries are damaged. Sure stick that .1Ω SS Coil in your Mech without knowing what the fuck you are doing~! Go ahead do it and have your 15 minutes of fame which does Vaping No Fucking Good.
     
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  31. Ryan_AlanUSN10

    Ryan_AlanUSN10 New Member

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    I’m not here to make enemy’s either but her response was not relevant to my question and I understand you guys are looking out for people’s safety. But you see “new member” asking about coils and you say “you’re not ready! Learn Ohms Law” and then have people chiming in telling you don’t know shit when they know nothing about you and then turning around making themselves look like an ass by saying that wattage isn’t affected by your battery.... as previously stated I am not a vape wizard or claim to be. But I do understand ohms law and I was simply starting a thread geared towards low resistance coils. And I never said that the same coils can’t be used in either devices. I simply stated that comparing mechs to regulated is “a different world” and typically different builds. Let me clarify you’re not gunna put a .06 coil on a single tube 18650 and followed by stating “I find most mech users run higher resistance”. I don’t believe I’m wrong in either of those aspects
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
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  32. SteveS45

    SteveS45 Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Running Low Ohms on Regulated Compared to a Mech is so much different anyone who say's different proves they do now know what they are talking about. In a Regulated MOD you will get an error message or out of Range message or error in a mech shit happens. Got your 15 minutes now~!
     
  33. Ryan_AlanUSN10

    Ryan_AlanUSN10 New Member

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    I’m running a .1 coil now. Have been at 90w All day. AND I AGREE ITS DIFFERENT THATS WHAT THIS WHOLE POST WAS ABOUT!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
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  34. SteveS45

    SteveS45 Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    I have been running a .5Ω coil in TC Mode Regulated for the last 3 months or more at 40-45W using TC on a Regulated MOD. Should I worry if my batteries get low? Fuck NO because my MOD tells me batteries are low~! Vape your way and stay safe~!
     
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  35. Ryan_AlanUSN10

    Ryan_AlanUSN10 New Member

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    Sorry Steve I misread your previous statement and I totally agree
     
  36. SteveS45

    SteveS45 Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    No Sweat my friend,:vino: I did not take anything the wrong way so feel free to post what you are feeling~!
     
  37. Ryan_AlanUSN10

    Ryan_AlanUSN10 New Member

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    .5 coil???? Really why so high? I’m assuming SS?
     
  38. Ryan_AlanUSN10

    Ryan_AlanUSN10 New Member

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    Edit** not sure what happened there. I think I quoted myself.
     
  39. SteveS45

    SteveS45 Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    .5Ω Is My Normal Resistance but I have run the .2Ω coils on an Alien MOD for the past few months. You will find a lot of Negative from people about this MOD but it works Flawlessly for me. I feel never go by what you see online. It might be a basis but mostly a bunch of BS at least in my Opinion. I gave up proving the people going by reviewers data or opinions wrong. I go by real World First Fucking Hand Experience now. Tired of all the incorrect information I have seen.
     
  40. SteveS45

    SteveS45 Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    You actually mean why SO Low.................
     
  41. gsmit1

    gsmit1 Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Maybe the three of us are not communicating Steve :)

    He made it sound like no coil build can be used for both regulated and unregulated devices. That's what I was responding to. Except for very low resistance builds, why couldn't you take an rda off of a regulated mod and put it on a tube as long you knew your batteries were up to the task? A .15 build can work perfectly fine on either device from either world. The level of knowledge required is vastly different between the regulated and mechanical worlds, but not necessarily the builds. I hope that clears that up as you and I have always gotten along near as I could tell, and given the choice, I'd prefer that that continue.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
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  42. SteveS45

    SteveS45 Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    My point exactly~! If you don't know the difference you shouldn't be messing around with a MECH. Two totally different worlds. At least in my fucked up humble opinion,................
     
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  43. Ryan_AlanUSN10

    Ryan_AlanUSN10 New Member

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    Ok still figuring out how to quote people here but I wrote something in there
     
  44. gsmit1

    gsmit1 Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    @Ryan_AlanUSN10
    You said this:
    Lucy responded with the following:
    Not because she thinks you're a moron, but because she's talked to enough people about this to recognize how somebody sounds when they're not quite there yet.

    I'm glad you're here, but I agree with her.

    I also hope you become a regular and this rough first interaction can be put behind us. :)
     
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  45. gsmit1

    gsmit1 Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    You have to know I agree completely. The safe use of mechanical devices IS a different world from regulated ones. Most coil builds however, (with some exceptions) can safely enjoy citizenship in both was my point.

    It appears we were momentarily talking past each other. I apologize if I wasn't clear enough.
     
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  46. Ryan_AlanUSN10

    Ryan_AlanUSN10 New Member

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    This all being said. I apologize for any abrasion caused to anyone here but with what your sayin about the coils being used in both applications that was my point man. It can be done (for the most part) and typically it’s higher wattage on mech mods just the nature of it. And the whole point of this post was to see if the same wattage is acceptable on a regulated. Stupid question. I think a lot of people took it wrong or misinterpreted this as me saying I want to get a mech mod with a 20A max battery and run .03 coils in it and blow my face off.

    IM SORRY FOR ALL THE CONFUSION
     
    gsmit1 likes this.
  47. JuicyLucy

    JuicyLucy My name is Lucy and I am a squonkaholic Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years VU Challenge Team ECF Refugee

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    The biggest problem is that some chunky type coils will require a great deal of ramp up time beyond the capability of a mech's battery or batteries

    Some builds are simply too low to be used safely

    Even most regulated mods have a cutoff on how low it will go
     
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  48. Ryan_AlanUSN10

    Ryan_AlanUSN10 New Member

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    This makes sense. I can see that
     
  49. gsmit1

    gsmit1 Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    That's true too. That was my problem when I first started. I was so worried about going too low that I wound up building too high and bulky and it performed like an overgrown pod with a ten minute ramp up. I got a lot of help with that, especially from Meg, who sent me some of her coils and then i saw the light :)

    What I was getting at is that "different coils" isn't the defining component that makes the mech world different from the regulated world. The method by which power is delivered to the coils is that defining component.
     
    JuicyLucy likes this.
  50. SteveS45

    SteveS45 Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    The main difference between the Mech World and The Regulated Realm is you won't blow your FACE OFF with too Low a Build for your batteries. Not just how it ramps up or battery longevity. There is that WTF happened moment when it gives an error or waking up in the ER.
     

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